Wednesday, March 11, 2009
“Gerry Adams does not have a monopoly on the theology of republicanism.”
There was an interesting clash between Máirtín Ó Muilleoir and Kevin Toolis on Monday’s Talkback with Máirtín denying he was putting forward the Sinn Féin point of view on those other republican paramilitaries. As Máirtín repeated at CommentisFree, that point of view could be paraphrased as - don’t mention the ‘R’ word. And no wonder. There’s a harsh reality here for Sinn Féin to face, as Eamonn McCann points out in the Daily Mail
The working-class anger that gave rise to the emergence of the Provos as a major player in the 1970s did not represent a new flowering of Republican ideas, a long-repressed tradition suddenly gushing forth again through the cracks caused by the seismic impact of the 1960s civil rights movement. It would be truer to say that the tiny Republican movement of the time, embodied in Belfast in a few families, including the Adamses, provided an organisational framework, a channel for expression and a readiness to fight that matched the sudden mood of the Catholic masses and offered a ready-made ideology to lend their travails an historical resonance at a time when their communities were under siege by loyalist mobs, the Royal Ulster Constabulary and the British Army.
Adams and his associates have gradually, surreptitiously, denying at every stage that they were embarked on any such enterprise, sloughed off this Republican tradition and bargained the war conducted in its name for advancement for themselves and their community in the here-and-now. But the core idea which they espoused was elevated in the course of their struggle, and, as Saturday night’s killings illustrate, it hasn’t gone away.
Kevin Toolis, writing today in the Times
But Ireland is no more united than it was in 1922. And Sinn Féin, sunk into insignificance in the last elections in the South, is unable to articulate how the current Stormont settlement leads to a united Ireland and something more than jobs for Mr Adams’s boys.
In West Belfast, the republican heartland, his political machine is slick, suffocating, thuggish and ready to isolate all those within the “republican family” who question the long betrayal. No one is immune from the leader’s wrath if they dissent and ask - what was all the sacrifice of the 1970s and 1980s for? Did Bobby Sands starve himself to death so that Martin McGuinness, a legendary IRA man, could become a minister of the British Crown in Ireland?
Even Brendan “the dark” Hughes, Mr Adams’s old Long Kesh cellmate, was cast out into the wilderness. “I would have taken a bullet for Gerry Adams but perhaps I should have put a bullet in him,” said Hughes despairingly.
By their latest killings, the republican dissidents are reminding us all that Gerry Adams does not have a monopoly on the theology of republicanism. They intend to go on with the killing until they are stopped. Like the poor, Ireland’s Troubles are always with us.
The Irish Times, which also has a couple of excellent background articles, has a blunt, related, editorial today
Above all, though, there is the challenge of ridding Irish culture of the last vestiges of the sneaking regard for their crude ideology and the murderous methods that flow from it. A part of the price that has been paid for the peace process, and for bringing paramilitary killers in from the cold, has been a reluctance to challenge too strongly the notion that violence was ultimately vindicated. We must acknowledge that paramilitarism achieved nothing for the Irish people over 30 years except blood and tears. It was, and is, a dead end. Those who would revive it must be treated by everyone, of every political persuasion, for what they are: the enemies of democracy, decency and Ireland.
That’s another legacy issue that’s been ignored so far..
Pete Baker @ 12:18 PM
What a lot of these smart-arsed commentators who cover republicanism do not seem to appreciate is that the context has changed.
Traditionally republicans looked to the 1918 & 1921 elections that produced a SF majority in Ireland as the frustrated acts of self-determination which gave legitimacy to the armed struggle.
However in 1998 the Irish people, North and South, voted overwhelmingly to give approval to the terms of the Good Friday Agreement / changes to Bunreacht na h-Éireann.
In doing so the people of Ireland gave de-facto recognition to the fact that Northern Ireland will remain part of the UK until a majority vote otherwise.
That was voted for by the people of Ireland in 1998. This is absolutely crucial but yet these same smart-arsed commentators continue to ignore it. Why?
Furthermore Sinn Féin stood in the last Assembly elections on a position of endorsing the PSNI and received a record vote. The SDLP had already endorsed the PSNI. The dissident candidates that stood received derisory votes.
Martin McGuiness was correct to call these people traitors. They are ignoring the stated will of the Irish people as expressed in the GFA and the amended Bunreacht na h-Éireann.
1998 is the key date, not 1918 or 1921.
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 04:42 PMMartin McGuiness was correct to call these people traitors.
Clarification - he was referring to people who take up arms against the democratically approved settlement, not people who oppose it peaceably.
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 04:45 PMI find Pete Baker’s post and many others on Slugger a ‘mix and gatherum’ of anti Sinn Féin comment. The fact that anti Shinners will quote loyalists thugs, ex IRA dissidents, aggrieved Marxists and right wing Tories often in the same paragraph shows a clear lack of coherence in their arguments.
The authors of these quotes find themselves joining together in Anti Sinn Féin bashing despite the fact that they hate each others politics and due to the fact that they pose no threat to each others status quo. In other words you are my ally as you are ineffectual. Sinn Féin on the other hand are effectual and are brining about change.
Also is it not amazing that despite the fact that SF has had nothing to do with these killings and that they have gone further than necessary to condemn them most of the critical comment is focused towards SF and not the perpetrators of the killing. Bizarre!!!
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 04:58 PMPicador
Martin McGuiness has gone so far now that there is no way back for him
Yesterday Martin McGuinness confirmed what has been know since the Mansion House in 1986 when RSF became founded - The man along with Adams have gone down a route that is probably more deluded in Republican terms than that of the Stick in 1974.
The Commentators are correct to point out the sacrafice made by Volunteers during the conflict.
Martin McGuinness is no better than Denis Donaldson - they both have colluded with the crown.
The gangster Army that the provisionals turned into in the 90s through to today have smuggled robbed post offices, beat youth a pulp, carried out the biggest Bank Tiger Heist Bank Robbery in Irish History - What a bunch of scum to call anybody Traitors!
It is now know that much of the Former Provisional Leadership participate in or cheer on the open manipulation of youth through widespread drug dealing to line their pockets - What a bunch of scum to call anybody Traitors!
I think Hugh Orr nearly dropped dead yesterday when he stood with his new friend and heard him brand people traitors!
History will be written and Republican History must align the actions of Martin McGuinness parallel with those of Michael Collins, Eammon De Valera & the likes of Denis Donaldson (who was probably only one of many PSF Touts.
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 05:07 PMJeez - how many thread can you have on the same topic?
Pin-head-ideological-dancing-whilst-concurrently-studying-the-Republican-navel is very interesting I’m sure - but after SF signed up to police a year ago - what is fecking new here?
...and still no thread on the reckless position of the UU/Tories now aligned with those against GFA/STA if we can assume that Wee Reggie didnt just lose the run of himself in the assembly the other day.
Rant Alert
p.s. It seems any uselss academic who cant think of an interesting subject to do his thesis on decides to join the Cascarino-School of Irish Republican studies where their only real knowledge of the topic is based on borrowing a few books from the libary. Bad enough all this political masturbation - but then they proceed to ring up some chum from Oxford who is now working on Radio 4 or Channel whats-its-name to tell them they are availble for an interview and we all have to listen to vague jibber-jabber and Pin-head-ideological-dancing-whilst-concurrently-studying-the-Republican-navel and round we go again….
Rant EndsPosted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 05:07 PMRory (South Derry)
You put in a stlalwart performace last night.
Firstly,
apologies if you have already answered this question last night - but do you not feel even a little bit uneasy about dissing the GFA when it has been endorsed by the vast majority of Irish Nationalists? Just a teensy-weensy-bit-of-unease?
Secondly,
Apologies if again if I am misquoting you but I think you suggested last night that the South Derry brigade/volunteers had defeated the British in the field of battle. Could you confirm exactly which operations you feel allow you to make that assertion. I am specifcally referring to actual miltitary casualties ( ie members of the British military) inflicted over the 30 or so years of war. It would be preferable if you did not include anyone who was off-duty or retired but actually happened to be carrying a gun at the time of the engagment?
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 05:20 PMSammy McNally
The GFA is in many ways like the 1921 Treaty - mass acceptance by certain Republicans without having the content or ability to achieve the ultimate goal of a Unified Nation
We are through the GFA going around the houses on the way to never achieving a United Ireland
Now in the O’Neill Arms in Toomebridge we were told by the PSF leadership that they were striving for 2016 and I know and more importantly so do they that this was never achievable through the context of the GFA.
Operations were carried out regularly in South Derry ordered in the main by many of PSF current leaders (or have they forgot) and many like that at Toome Barracks put the Brits well and truely in their place.
The RUC and UDR were tortured morning noon and night and lived in utter fear
Excuse my generalisation but I am not Tout and sworn an oath in 1982 which I observe to this day unlike my former comrades in PSF.
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 05:31 PMEamonn McCann in the Daily Mail” - does that constitute selling out?
Rory - grow up lad - your writing suggests you are either very young, or just foolish. Your IP address is more than likely being trawled.
The problem with all of these ‘high brow pieces ‘,is that they are low on fact and high on speculation.Further, why were we not subjected to these gems of socio-cultural wisdom, over the past twelve years. Why has it taken these murders to open up the Pandora’s box of insightful wisdom?
A number of papers have recently named the current leader of the Real IRA.
He is by all accounts a county Louth man, presumably steeped in old school republicanism (or at least that school of republicanism that looked over the border and wished to free the enslaved Catholic population). McKevitt and many of the other Real IRA people named with regard to the Oamagh bomb, were from the Louth area as well.
These were the people left behind at the 97 convention, when the northerners decided that they were capable of resolving the northern problem internally.
Because of the never ending vow of Omerta, people do not like to name names; so in the main the leading players in the provisionals (real or not) go about their lives quietly.
The Real IRA are backwoodsmen; their murders opportunist (it took them twelve years to get it right). They lack a coherent strategy, other than the belief that they are the rightful government of Ireland.
Of course they may be able to exploit poverty and social deprivation, in much the same way that the provos took control of ares like Muirheavnamore in Dundalk, but it would be wrong in the extreme to suugest that they are incapable of unleashing a new prolonged war.
They have been infiltrated for the past twelve years, and soon the counter surveillence techniques that are employed aginst in the Southt will be admissable in court.
For an insight into the Real IRA I would suggest that people seek out the transcript to McKevitt’s most recent appeal, which you can find on google.
One gets the feeling that the likes of McCann and Toolis, flourish most, when there is a little bit of agitation to report. It is to be hoped, that next time, they and other commentators, do some homework.
Emotion is a dangerous thing, and people are able to make up their own minds best, when presented with all of the facts…a situation that has not pertained in N.Ireland for thirty years.
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 05:37 PMIsn’t Claudy in South Derry?
What a glorious operation that was, bestowing on the brave soldiers of Erin plaudits that will never be forgotten until the end of time.Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 05:37 PMsorry - should have read capable instead of incapable;
‘but it would be wrong in the extreme to suugest that they are incapable of unleashing a new prolonged war. ’
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 05:41 PMWhat’s wrong, Rory? Cat got your tongue?
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 05:54 PMCad é mar atá tú, a Ruairí?
How are those Irish lessons going?
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 06:03 PMCurious
Claudy is North Derry - Operation directly ordered by Martin McGuiness!
Operation was a mess but that was a sign of the times
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 06:07 PMthe theology of republicanism
Substitute Ireland for Israel and you’ll get the theology of republicanism from the Bible. It is the Old Testament value system underpinned by the rule “an eye for an eye” and dominated by the false god that is Israel.
Why not come back to Christianity, Rory?
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 06:23 PMSure the IRA never carried out the Claudy bombings.
Yes, it was the South Derry Brigade who carried them out, curious.
Are you foaming at the mouth again, ‘mo chara’?
Watch you don’t foam over your lovely DELL computer.
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 06:24 PMPicador
Claudy is 11 miles from Derry City you clown
Geograph lessons not handed out to provos these days?
The job was a mess - sin e!
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 06:27 PMRory (South Derry)
I was aksing you if you were not at least a little bit uneasy at being against the GFA when the vast majority Nationlaists voted in favour of it. The GFA is obviously very different from the Treaty in 1921 and particularly in one respect - the majortiy of Nationalists in Norn Iron did not vote in favour of it - so once again does that not make you at least question your certainty that the GFA is the wrong way to go?
In relation to PIRA military operations in South Derry - the state of mind of her majestys forces is quite difficult to ascertain - so statements that they “lived in utter fear” although plausible are difficult to substantiate. But what should not be difficult is to state is the number of British military who were killed in action in gun battles in the South Derry area as a result of insurgent activity. I am presuming the number is not zero - so can you say roughly - if it was over 5, over 10 or over 20?
Please do not include unarmed, off duty or retired soldiers in your numbers. This information is undoubtedly in the public domain would be quite time consuming for a non expert like myself (and unlike you goodself who is clearly proud of the insurgents record )to calculate.
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 06:36 PMI know where Claudy is. And I am not a Provo.
You are like a cracked record and a cartoon character rolled into one.
For anyone unfamiliar with Rory take a look at this thread:
Rory Mitty’s claims to be an Irish speaker debunked
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 06:38 PMPicador
I offered to speak face to face with you in Irish - your the man running and defending PSF on every single statement you make!
I am what I am - I HATE SINN FEIN as much if not more than the BRITS (no hiding it)
I think you might even be a stick or an SDLP has been!!!
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 06:46 PMSorry to digress but does anyone know more about what Jon Snow was refering to on C4 News when he asked Orde if one of those being questioned by police was being questioned about both incidents?
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 07:09 PMI offered to speak face to face with you in Irish - your the man running and defending PSF on every single statement you make!
LOL
mo chara mo chara mo chara
Given that you are borderline psychotic and claim to have access to firearms I think I will be declining.
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 07:09 PMPicador
You are the man talking about guns - it never was stated in any of my respones!
As for my state of mind confused by you - what are you stick provo or SDLP has been - come on make up your mind a chara
or
[play the ball - edited moderator]
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 07:14 PMPicador,
your use of your knowledge of Gaelic to poke fun at another Irishman causes me to view you as a charachter out of Flann O Briens’s An Béal Bocht; You are a dead ringer for one of those people from Dublin who was more Gaelic than the poor locals who were native speakers. School children would call you a ‘show off’. Mo naire thú, a hóinseach.
Rory, pass no remarks of the amadán or his amaidighe.Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 07:31 PMjust drove up the falls there and someone has been out with a paintbrush removing any sign of dissent
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 07:33 PMYou are the man talking about guns - it never was stated in any of my respones!
Seeing as you constantly bragging about what a big IRA man you are an’ all ...
What do use to carry out your war ... spud guns!?
It is unpleasant enough encountering you on the Internet.
[The ball? - edited moderator]
Posted by on Mar 11, 2009 @ 07:38 PM
