Friday, April 20, 2007
Gaelscoilleanna eating into mainstream rolls…
Interesting piece on Gaelport, which reports on how Irish medium schools in the Republic are attracting the upwardly mobile middle classes, even to the point of being charged with being ‘elitist’. In some cases, local mainstream schools are struggling to keep viable.
However, a spirit of inclusivity is no guarantee of diversity. Clued-in, academically motivated parents are signing their children up to gaelscoileanna when they are born; those with less savvy have a slim chance of getting in the door when the waiting lists are full years in advance. According to Blaithnead Ní Ghréacháin, this is a symptom of under-resourcing in the sector, especially at post-primary level, where there is massive demand but limited availability.
Mick Fealty @ 04:01 AM
“Slugger O’Toole
Notes on Northern Ireland politics and culture”
You’re on the wrong blog Mick!Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 07:03 AMPeter,
I’ve written about the Tory party conference, the Brown succession, the riots in France, development issues in Africa, the mid term elections in the US. If the strapline strikes such a jarring tone with the actual content of the blog, maybe it is time to change the strapline?
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 07:23 AM“I’ve written about the Tory party conference, the Brown succession, the riots in France,......”
come on now Mick, the republic’s your wee pet now isn’t it? lol
“If the strapline strikes such a jarring tone with the actual content of the blog, maybe it is time to change the strapline?”anything you wish, dear Mick!
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 07:32 AMPeter
Get a life mate
As for relevance as the Irish language is a living langusge in the North then surely news of language issues are relevant.
As for your swipe at Mick, well that says more about you than anything !
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 07:42 AMMick,
I have been thinking about this and you could change it to:“Notes on Northern Ireland, politics and culture”
Then you can write about what you like. It’s amazing what an apostrophe can do for meaning.
On this elitism thing, there are Gaelscoileanna in some of the poorest areas of Dublin, Limerick etc.
The main reason they are doing so well is because children get a really good education.
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 07:58 AMTrue George,
Kids for some reason that i don’t knoe thrive in these conditions. Figures show that overall the perform better in exams and are happier at school. I wish i hada went to a Gael Scoil.
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 08:10 AMIt’s a very interesting topic. Much too simplistic to say that the success of the Gaelscoileanna is down to elitism.
A more interesting debate is around why kids do better academically (is there empirical evidence?) in Gaelscoileanna. The other big movement in the South is the Educate Together, multidenominational schools which are also increasing in number.
I think an obvious reason why these schools might be more successful is that parents have made a conscious decision (for whatever reason) to send their kids there. So the parents are interested, more likely to be involved, more supportive and so on. As opposed to parents who just send their kids to the local school because it’s there - that’s not a criticism, I did the same myself.If you did a class (!) analysis of Gaelscoileanna Vs Educate Together schools I would say you would find more of the former set up in working class areas while the latter would be more middle class. The reasons…. nostalgic nationalism more of a pull to some of the working class, rejection of the Catholic church more of a pull to some of the middle class?
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 08:58 AMGeorge,
““Notes on Northern Ireland, politics and culture”
Then you can write about what you like. It’s amazing what an apostrophe can do for meaning.”
I think you mean comma, not apostrophe…
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 09:00 AMUllans,
I think I do! Oops.Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 09:30 AMPeter,
If you want the east west Slugger cuts into interesting categories: http://tinyurl.com/3yuzuq
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 09:57 AMClearly these types of school do better because Irish is the natural language through which all patriotic Gaels can communicate. This filthy English tongue has been holding me back for years, that’s why I was so crap at French in school!
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 10:36 AMThere is plenty of evidence and research on the benefits of bilingualism in many different societies but this is only part of the reason why parents choose to send their children to Gaelscoileanna.
I think the vast majority of parents with children in Gaelscoileanna believe in the importance of the Irish language.
There is however, anecdotal evidence of parents in Dublin as far as I have heard, seeking to have their children educated in an Irish only environment on the grounds that they feel the quality of mainstream schools is suffering due to non-national children who often need additional attention because of poor English.
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 10:51 AMThis Peter fellow does have an interesting point, Mick. Perhaps if you confined your content to the swansong of Ulster Unionism, the fortunes of Linfield F.C., Orange marches and the culinary delights of the Ulster Fry we might then find your site to be so bloody inane that we all could sagely switch off and spend some time with our families. I’m sure Herself would be all for it.
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 10:59 AMThat was intended to read “safely”, though perhaps “sagely” is equally appropriate. (A Freudian literary slip indicating unfounded intellectual self-regard that has me blushing).
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 11:02 AMPosts 13 and 14 above are mine but appear to be unsigned. I don’t know why this is so I did not seek anonymity of authorship.
Rory
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 11:05 AMStarhound,
There is however, anecdotal evidence of parents in Dublin as far as I have heard, seeking to have their children educated in an Irish only environment on the grounds that they feel the quality of mainstream schools is suffering due to non-national children who often need additional attention because of poor English.This is a story some people do like to put about, no doubt people who actually don’t send their own children to Gaelscoileanna.
I wonder what they make of the fact that there are Gaelscoileanna now putting up notices in Polish and the like in an effort to attract immigrant children.
Personally, I think the rise is because they are as good if not better than fee-paying schools for results and they are free.
And the other reason is that a lot of Irish people actually do cherish the Irish language.
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 11:15 AMAch! I thought this was some kind of foot poisoning been spread in bread rolls! :-(
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 11:40 AMMick,
I have been thinking about this and you could change it to:“Notes on Northern Ireland, politics and culture”
Then you can write about what you like. It’s amazing what an apostrophe can do for meaning.
Posted by George on Apr 20, 2007 @ 09:58 AM
Good Idea George. I would like to hear more information on a country close to my heart, Iceland. There’s a great article today in soundgenerator stating that the Sigur Ros book underway.A book charting the tour adventures of Sigur Ros through their native Iceland is to be published in June.
Giving an in depth perspective of their “Takk” world tour, “In A Frozen Sea: A Year With Sigur Ros” will features a host of images of works submitted by fans, interviews and a plethora of unseen content all captured during the band’s free tour of Iceland.
The summer months of June saw Sigur Ros playing makeshift stages right across their homeland, from big set-ups in the capital Reykjavik, to tiny crowd in small countryside villages.
Published June 1st, the book will also be accompanied by a limited edition vinyl LP release, which will also include several of the band’s albums - “Agaetis Byrjun”, “( )”, “Takk” and “Smaskifa” - on 12”.
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 11:52 AMPeter,
if you think the fortunes of Gaelscoileanna are irrelevant to Northern Ireland politics, you are going to find your new Education Minister a bit upsetting.
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 01:51 PMdo you think so, páid?
I wouldn’t care if he was threatening to jump from a tall building if his demands aren’t met. He can shout, jump, sing and dance all he likes, the Republic is a seperate concern to N.Ireland. It has as much in common with N.Ireland as Wales has to Scotland
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 02:08 PMHe? His? He? He?
What?
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 02:16 PM“the Republic is a seperate concern to N.Ireland. It has as much in common with N.Ireland as Wales has to Scotland”
Wales and Scotland have quite a lot in common. All the people’s on these islands have more in common with each other than we do to any other countries in the world. It’s cretinous to think otherwise. There have been plenty of posts on Welsh, Scottish and English nationalism on this site. Maybe you don’t have any connections - personal, cultural or historical - to the south but plenty of your countrymen do.
Ultimately, it’s Mick’s site: he can put what he likes on it. If you don’t like it you don’t have to read it. The site would probably manage to survive without your valuable contribution.
To get back to the original topic of this thread, any people I know who went to Gaeilscoileanna are middle class types. In the recent past it would almost have been considered ‘elitist’ to be an Irish speaker if you weren’t from a gaeltacht area. There traditionally hasn’t been much of a gra for the auld mother tongue in working class areas. This may be changing, however, but I’d imagine its still primarily a middle class phenomenon.
I’d say more people in Northern Ireland speak Irish than in the south - for political reasons.
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 02:49 PMNiall
you’re talking through your aul’ “caubin”. all 10 Irish primary schools ,12 nursery schools and 1 secondary school in Belfast are all in working class areas, incidently, for what it’s worth, none of them is affiliated to any particular church or religion.Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 06:48 PMI’m not talking about Belfast - there’s completely different reasons why northern nationalists are keen for their children to learn Irish, which I mentioned in my post.
I’m talking about the south and I’m speaking anecdotally so I’m open to any evidence to the contrary. Most people I know would associate Gaeilgeoirs, outside of Gaeltacht areas, with the middle classes. With no political incentive to learn Irish in the south it was left to the more bohemian elements of the middle and upper classes to learn Irish. This trend is changing, but I sincerely doubt it’s a working class phenomenon.
Posted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 06:55 PMNiall
when your in a hole stop digging! If Belfast doesn,t count in this anecdotal nonsence , what about Dublin, Swords,Ballymun,Cabra,Clondolcan,Lucan,Tallaght, Santry, are just some of the working class areas in Dublin where Irish Language schools are situated. Those friends of yours will have to go to re education classes or move to other anecdotes. If you go into “Gaelscoileanna* on the web you,ll get the facts from all over Ireland and no anecdotesPosted by on Apr 20, 2007 @ 07:19 PM
