Saturday, June 16, 2007
From Ikea to Limavady
SDLP Councillor Gerry Mullan is objecting to the display of a Union flag during a World War I commemoration event in Limavady. The solitary Union flag will not be flown on council property, on a temporary flag poll for approximately 30 minutes. However, this is too much for Cllr Mullan who has attacked it as a “flag-waving exercise”.
Fair Deal @ 10:59 AM
“Ah Lib, so what you are saying can be summarised as thus: commemorate the war dead if you must, but only in a way that we deem accepatable and non-offensive.”
Sure - if you are going to label it cross community. That would seem to be a prerequisite.
Posted by on Jun 18, 2007 @ 03:43 PMWrong call by Mullan. The Union flag should be flown.
But as Hunter said....’WWI is part of my Britishness, and the Britishness of my children and grandchildren and great grandchildren whether there ever is a united Ireland and my people become stateless like the Kurds or not’.
Please note, WW1 is not just an Ulster Unionist thing either. Overall probably more people from an Irish Nationalist background throughout Ireland fought and died in the war than the good loyal folk.
Do you believe that the Ulster 36th Division were deliberately sent to their slaughter from English orders from above? Naive if you don’t.
Was such loyality worth it?And are you having a laugh when you say this...’my people become stateless like the Kurds or not’.... FFS!
Posted by on Jun 18, 2007 @ 03:46 PM“my people become stateless like the Kurds “
He didn’t have to look as far as the Kurds. How about the nationalists who ended up on the wrong side of the border after partition?
Posted by on Jun 18, 2007 @ 06:02 PMLib
Bad news - we are the British.
Posted by on Jun 18, 2007 @ 09:05 PMGreagoir,
I do not accept this 36th sent to their massacre deliberately.
It is the case that the military leadership genuinely believed that there would be no or few German survivors such was the severity of their bombardment. Also there were other regiments which suffered horribly on 1st July. The 36th had a particular problem because many were sent (by their own leaders) into no mans land before the shelling was over (this was against top brass orders). As such they got a bit further and so were vunerable from three sides. I think the generals made a mistake. What made it morally wrong was not to stop after the first day when they say what a disaster faced them. I think the First World War is a little (only a little) more complex than the “Lions lead by Donkeys we were all taught.
Posted by on Jun 18, 2007 @ 09:19 PMGreagoir: Do you believe that the Ulster 36th Division were deliberately sent to their slaughter from English orders from above? Naive if you don’t.
Haig was Scottish. About 20 divisions attacked on the 1st day of the Somme, which was intended to be a triumph. Do you think the 16th division was treated more, or less, favourably than the 36th, and if so, why? Was any division sent into the battle with the intention of it being decimated? Ridiculous!
Posted by on Jun 18, 2007 @ 10:25 PMNot really turgon
the masses were for the slaughter and your elites were for the tea.
They didnt just continually sacrifice Irish or the british lower classes they did the same thing with “colonies”
They sent the Canadiand to there slaughter by the thousands until we were smart enough to take control of our own troops and the slaughter stopped and the victories started
Posted by on Jun 18, 2007 @ 10:26 PMGinnFizz
“Bad news - we are the British. “I think he’s talking about people who are actually from errrr, Britain. Not in the Irish, Gibralter or Falklands Island sense.
But anyhoo.....I watched Wimbledon on TV one time so I can hardly talk.
Posted by on Jun 18, 2007 @ 11:39 PMI am from Limavady and I have been following this issue. When speaking with Cllr Mullan he made it clear to me that he is annoyed about the flag not because he has anything against it per se but because Limavady council has agreed a ‘no flags’ policy and here are Unionists erecting a Union Flag outside Limavady council offices. They say this is to be a cross-community event yet there is no speak of erecting a Tricolour to honour the dead Irishmen who came from the area, and yes it was a united country during WWI. Either it is cross-community and should have both flags or none or it isn’t cross-community and from the looks of it I do not think it is inclusive at all. If they really wanted to involve everyone they would not be bringing a mobile flagpole and erecting a Union Flag outside Limavady council offices in contravention of the previous agreement.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2007 @ 12:16 AMSean do you have the slightest grasp of the subject about which you are talking so much twaddle?
The highest casualty toll in British units was among junior officers, you know the public school toffs whom you seem to believe were all sitting behind the lines eating cucumber sandwiches and drinking tea from bone china cups and with their little fingers raised just so. Furthermore almost one hundred British generals were killed in action during the First World War, a previously unheard of event.
As for your post-Trudeau (a man who disdainfully shrugged off the notion that fighting for freedom - even for the freedom of fellow Frenchmen - was something a grown up nation should sometimes have to do) version of Canadians in WW1, it is a fact that Canadians rushed to the recruiting offices and were, like their Ulster, Scottish, Australian and New Zealand cousins chomping at the bit to get into action and were subsequently very proud of their service. They weren’t naive little lambikins cruelly tricked into their downfall by sinister waxy moustache twirling English aristos cackling maniacally as they wrung their hands in evil delight.
Try reading some history mate, the study of the First World War has advanced a bit since you played in the chorus line at your Sixth Form production of “Oh What a Wonderful War!”
Posted by on Jun 19, 2007 @ 12:43 AMHarry Flashman
I never once said that Canadians did not rush to do what they viewed as their duty. Infact my history tells me that the Canadians did much of the heavy lifting on the front lines. From Ypres to Vimy Ridge they did us proud but they were never the less fed to the whirlwind by the supposed heroic british profesional generals and it wasnt until a Volunteer Canadian general took control and changed the way the war was fought that the Canadians fairly single handedly won one of the bigest battles namely Vimy Ridge. Though I am sure your history tells you different.
I fully support commemoration of both world wars but they still were not planning a cross community event, If they had who would have complained?
Posted by on Jun 19, 2007 @ 01:31 AMIn fact if you read this article you will see where he refused to follow the butcher Haig because he would not sacrifice his troops just to follow an order
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Currie
Posted by on Jun 19, 2007 @ 01:41 AMthe Narrative of Canada says that on July 1, 1867 in Charlottetown Prince Edward Island Canada became a country
And in 1917 on the blood soaked killing fields of Vimy Ridge Canada became a Nation so f*ck off with your fake history lesson
Posted by on Jun 19, 2007 @ 01:52 AMLiam - “there is no speak of erecting a Tricolour to honour the dead Irishmen who came from the area, and yes it was a united country during WWI.”
Perhaps then they should also fly the Cross of St Patrick as well as the Union Flag. You’re being political and provocative when you say cross-community means also flying the flag of a foreign country i.e. Eire. There are no Union Flags flown at such events in Eire. You’re living in the United Kingdom my British friend.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2007 @ 01:54 AMLiam
After reading some history to correct your misunderstanding of WWI, you really should have a word with Councillor Mullan , who just looks even more petty and stupid than the Shinners by adopting this one man crusade. Cripes, even Paddy Butcher had the wit not to run with this one.Firstly, it’s not a Unionist parade, as a cursory glance at the link will show. Secondly, the flag is going to go up on the open space outside the council offices and library, both of which will be closed-i.e.empty,vacant, bereft of sensitive souls who feel their gorges rising at the merest tinges of red white and blue. It’s not being flown from council property, and the pavement in front of the carpark is hardly sacred ground.
The council has a policy on flags and emblems which is curiously onesided. They seem unconcerned by a thumping great slab of concrete on their property beside the Church of Ireland in Dungiven which commemorates IRA men 365 days a year. Curiously I can’t remember councillor Mullan issuing a statement about that......
Posted by on Jun 19, 2007 @ 08:37 AM‘Perhaps then they should also fly the Cross of St Patrick as well as the Union Flag. You’re being political and provocative when you say cross-community means also flying the flag of a foreign country i.e. Eire. There are no Union Flags flown at such events in Eire. You’re living in the United Kingdom my British friend.’
You’re so far up your own Unionist arse when you utter such inane shite. The history of the island just didn’t begin when the Planters and your stock arrived here, nor did it just begin in 1921 and partition. Incredible, that you very much hold today the attitude of the Planters, with that arrogant superiority complex of a wannabe uppercrust Englishman ignorant of the Irish Nationalists of Ulster and the island of Ireland that surround you.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2007 @ 08:51 AMDecal, Turgon
Rubbish.
The farcical idea that you can’t fly the Union Flag (or for that matter the Irish tricolour) alone at a cross-community event may be CRC, it may be Corrymeela, but it ain’t Alliance.
We need to become acquainted with the other traditions in our society, not try to deny they exist.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2007 @ 09:38 AMp and j,
the union jack HAS been flown at ww1 events in the republic.
so i am afraid that you are wrong.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2007 @ 09:39 AMThis guys know shit all about the Irish Republic today.
Only last year there was a major commeration to mark the battle of the Somme at the specially designed Sir Edwin Lutyens designed Memorial Gardens at Islandbridge in Dublin. A sevice held by the two main Churches and attended by many Irish and British dignatories. There were an abundance Union flags on display.Visit St Patrick’s Cathedral in Dublin too at any time where you can see on permanent display many a Union Flag and various battle standards of the Britsh army from the Great War and other wars of the empire.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2007 @ 10:10 AMA great read that shatters the whole ‘lions led by donkeys’ myth of WW1.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2007 @ 10:14 AMForecast
Revisionist history is always facinating to those who like what its being revised to
Posted by on Jun 19, 2007 @ 11:24 AM“Liam - “there is no speak of erecting a Tricolour to honour the dead Irishmen who came from the area, and yes it was a united country during WWI.”
Perhaps then they should also fly the Cross of St Patrick as well as the Union Flag. You’re being political and provocative when you say cross-community means also flying the flag of a foreign country i.e. Eire. There are no Union Flags flown at such events in Eire. You’re living in the United Kingdom my British friend. “
The point is that I do not think any flags should be flown at all if they want to make it cross-community. I don’t really want a Tricolour any more than a Union Flag and you just picked out one sentence of my post to refute.
As already said there are Union Flags flown in the Republic of Ireland and they could easily fly one here or fly none at all to neutralise the event but the Unionists don’t want to and the idea of this being a cross-community event is very thin indeed.
On the point about the flag in Dungiven I think any councillor would have to think twice before trying to remove something in that town…Posted by on Jun 19, 2007 @ 11:37 AMInteresting point made that southern memorials DO fly union flags. Yet more evidence that Southern Republicans and Northern ones are different.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2007 @ 11:41 AMLiam
your last comment @12.37 is undoubtedly true, yet what does it say about parity of esteem as a two way street?Helen Quigley was the SDLP mayor in Londonderry who had the good manners to attend the cenotaph service on 11th November 2006 where there were a plethora of Union Flags from the RBL, RAF, Royal Navy Association etc etc
President McAleese was able to stand in Islandbridge with numerous Union flags at l;ast year’s ceremonies.Was either event “Unionist”?
Was either woman insulted or her nationalism diminished?Martina Anderson is quoted in this morning’s Derry Urinal saying she would not go to the cenotaph this year.. because of all the Brits in attendance, but she went to Messines to ..er.. outreach to themmuns. So much for all the cant about her relations in the British army!!!
Posted by on Jun 19, 2007 @ 11:55 AMLiam - “On the point about the flag in Dungiven I think any councillor would have to think twice before trying to remove something in that town…”
So it’s OK to have a thumping great slab of concrete on their property beside the Church of Ireland in Dungiven which commemorates SF-IRA murderers 365 days a year. It wouldn’t do to say anything ... because SF-IRA might get nasty? But it’s OK for the SDLP to pick on a WW I commemoration. Shameful from the SDLP.
GrĂ©agĂłir O’ FráinclĂn - “The history of the island just didn’t begin when the Planters and your stock arrived here”. I hope you’re not being racist now. I thought Republicans were all for equality - yeah right - unless you happen to be Ulster British. And anyway, it depends how far you want to go back as regards the original people of Ireland. So try to curb your racism.
dub - “the union jack HAS been flown at ww1 events in the republic.” Great to hear. Although, can anyone tell me this - if I wanted to find a Union Flag flying outdoors in Eire today, where would I need to go to find it? That is, before the SF-IRA bully boys had pulled it down.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2007 @ 11:59 AM
