Wednesday, February 22, 2006
Frazer vs. Frazer: Love Ulster Chapter 201
Talkback had a ‘Love Ulster’ focus yesterday(Tuesday), with an intriguing debate between Willie Frazer and a Dublin-based Rev. David Frazer on this weekend’s march and rally in Dublin. The debate was memorable for an irate Willie demanding that the Anglican minister ‘take pills’ and convert to catholicism after expressing an opposing opinion on the parade. Suzanne Breen threw in her tuppence worth, challenging southern opposition to the parade, though she omitted to mention that Sinn Fein has actually supported the parade.
Chris Donnelly @ 08:37 AM
I’m personally very proud that Irish people, Orange and Green, can bring their campaigns to the capital.
It’s great to see their voices heard in Dublin when they are lost in London.
Another all-Ireland body and a lesson learned ?
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 10:58 AMTake pills and convert to Catholicism? After the support nationalists have shown Mr. Frazer, its sad but obvious that Mr.Frazer would eventually show his true sectarian colours!
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 12:04 PMFirst thing its good that this parade is taking place in the capital of our country and its fantastic that Willie Frazer sees the importance of an all Ireland approach to his campaign. The reason that this parade is causing no reaction is that its like thousands of other parades each year it will not try to march over the rights and concerns of a minority community.
Secondly does it surprise anyone that Ms Breen would not in any way give Sinn Fein. Credit were its due.
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 03:05 PMIt’s almost as good as his belief (quoted in Susan Mc Kay’s ‘Northern Protestants’) that one of the differences between Catholics and Protestants was that Catholics always take a mental note of a strange car coming into their area and Protestants don’t.
Of course SF are supporting the march, every time this man opens his mouth he makes an eejit of himself.
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 03:09 PMWillie Frazer is everything that ixs wrong woith Unionism. From Susna McKay’s Northern Protestants: “If a Paki came from India and shot an IRA man, I would shake his hand.”
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 03:26 PM...could someone please post info and back ground on Rev. David Frazer (or “Frazer the sane”) so we use this as a counter to his unspeakable namesake.
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 04:23 PM‘a Paki came from India’
Brilliant - two insults in the space of five words. That man is good!!!
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 04:26 PM‘...could someone please post info and back ground on Rev. David Frazer (or “Frazer the sane”) so we use this as a counter to his unspeakable namesake.’
I heard them go at each other on Radio 1 some weeks back (not sure if this is their only debate), Rev. Frazer sounded very like Bob Geldoff (now, that’s what I call useless information). He didn’t think their was any reason for the march in Dublin as far as I recall.
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 04:29 PMGlensman,
On more than one occasion Willie Frazer has had family members murdered in the South Armagh area by Provisional IRA murder gangs who claim to be Irish “freedom fighters”. Why were these family members targeted? The answer is pure sectarianism- because they were members of the Protestant faith.The South Armagh Provos had a widely-acknowledged policy of attempting to kill the eldest sons in Protestant families along the border, especially those who owned farms and small businesses. This can be described as nothing other than genocide or an anti-Protestant pogrom.
These republicans, in both the IRA and their mouthpiece Sinn Fein, believed that if the murder of a families’ father/son wasn’t enough to intimidate them out of the area, they would get them out eventually. They calculated that the remaining family members would be unable to keep the farm/business going as they had either businesses/jobs of their own, or simply because they couldn’t afford to run the farms/businesses any longer without the help of their murdered loved one.
So don’t start giving Willie Frazer a lecture on sectarianism, whenever nationalist communities shield and even actively support republican sectarian murder gangs in areas like South Armagh…Mr Frazer is the victim, NOT the transgressor.
Concerned Loyalist
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 04:58 PMConcerned Loyalist,
Just looked at Willie Frazer’s story on Love Ulster. His story is horrendous. And it explains why Willie Frazer holds his views. It would likely be impossible for him not to.
However, the website doesn’t say much about non republican violence. The sectarian murder of Protestants and Catholics regardless of who pulled the trigger should be the centre of any such protest.
Again, they get unnecessarily political. The site is damning against the Irish government. Also, they hold the UDR in high regard. Now, it’s hard to consider someone looking for a fair deal when they praise an organisation like the UDR. If SF is guilty by association with the IRA then the UDR is equally repugnant.
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 05:25 PMI did not read anyone making fun of the tragic events in Willie Frazer’s life, rather the utter stupidity of his comments. I’m afraid he is the latest in a long line of Loyalist spokesmen of this type. It would be only fair therefore to invite votes for Republicans who can inspire the same response. The President can get quite close on a good day.
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 06:40 PMDaithO0
Identity theft!
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 06:42 PMCL:“On more than one occasion Willie Frazer has had family members murdered in the South Armagh area by Provisional IRA murder gangs who claim to be Irish “freedom fighters”. Why were these family members targeted? The answer is pure sectarianism- because they were members of the Protestant faith.”
And the anti-Catholic riots and church burnings of 1968 - 69 were, what, a fraternity prank gone tragically off course? No, they were not, they were an anti-Catholic pogrom. Actions cause reactions in politics just as they do in chemistry and physics. Did anyone *seriously* think the Catholic minority was just going to lie there and accept these actions without some sort of response, performing the metaphorical equivalent of the Victorian lass lying back and “thinking of England?” You should have learned as a child, you play with fire, you get burned, both literally and allegorically.
CL: “The South Armagh Provos had a widely-acknowledged policy of attempting to kill the eldest sons in Protestant families along the border, especially those who owned farms and small businesses. This can be described as nothing other than genocide or an anti-Protestant pogrom. “
Sounds *awfully Jewish / Old Testament… you sure they weren’t Hasids?
CL: “These republicans, in both the IRA and their mouthpiece Sinn Fein, believed that if the murder of a families’ father/son wasn’t enough to intimidate them out of the area, they would get them out eventually. They calculated that the remaining family members would be unable to keep the farm/business going as they had either businesses/jobs of their own, or simply because they couldn’t afford to run the farms/businesses any longer without the help of their murdered loved one”
Not wholly unlike the creation of the Ulster plantation, neh? I guess its true—what goes around, comes around. As for who is the victim, that is *ALWAYS* a matter of perspective. Mayhaps were it not for those “non-sectarian” church burnings in the late sixties, the rest of this unpleasentness could have been bypassed.
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 07:41 PMAny ‘kick the pope’ bands going to Dublin or are they only allowed at the Belfast ‘love ulster’ rallies ?
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 08:21 PMwhy are posts showing the wrong name ?
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 08:24 PMthe above posts are mine - Will. ffs
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 08:28 PMJust want to point out that in this thread I made ONLY the first comment. Anything subsequent is either a “blip” or maybe something sinister !!
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 08:32 PMAnd I’m DaithíO the system wouldn’t accept the í
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 08:35 PMsmcgiff
what do you mean an organisation like the UDR?
From the tone of your post I suspect you have mistaken the UDR for the UDA. A case of not knowing your R’s from your A’s perhaps?
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 09:36 PM“From the tone of your post I suspect you have mistaken the UDR for the UDA”
Was joint membership not compulsary ??
Posted by on Feb 22, 2006 @ 09:56 PMNo. In South Armagh it was generally the UVF.
Posted by on Feb 23, 2006 @ 08:44 AMSorry Glensman, that last post was from Tochais Sioraí.
This new system is going to be interesting.
TS
Posted by on Feb 23, 2006 @ 08:47 AM‘From the tone of your post I suspect you have mistaken the UDR for the UDA. A case of not knowing your R’s from your A’s perhaps?’
Nope - I meant the Ulster(sic) Defence Regiment.
smcgiff
Posted by on Feb 23, 2006 @ 09:31 AMThe Revd David Frazer is one of the most liberal minded, limp as lettuce CofI clergyman in the south of Ireland.
If Willie Frazer knew anything about the Church of Ireland, then he’d know that the Reverend is one of the few Church of Irelanders who performs blessings for divorcees and atheists. For that reason, he’ll never be an ideal candidate for the rough-and-ready Catholic Church - now or at any time.
Posted by on Feb 23, 2006 @ 01:19 PMDaithio,
there are no such things as “Kick The Pope” bands. There are “melody” and “blood and thunder” flute bands, as well as accordion, pipe and silver bands. As to who is playing at the Love Ulster demonstration, that is a matter for the organisers. As to the number playing, if I remember correctly, the organisers are limiting it to 6 bands, even though many more expressed an interest.I think this is a good move as detractors would no doubt have labelled the parade “triumphalist”, “menacing” or “intimidating” if 50 or 60 bands had of marched the streets of Dublin, thus taking the focus off the reason for the demonstration- to highlight the plight of the forgotten victims of IRA violence and to show the Irish people that the Protestant, Unionist, Loyalist community of Ulster are not monsters but victims of a concerted campaign of sectarian genocide, perpetrated by the IRA, at times in collusion with elements within their own government and security forces…
Posted by on Feb 23, 2006 @ 02:39 PM
