Sunday, March 29, 2009
Football violence provides occasion for racist attacks in city
The violence surrounding the Northern Ireland- Poland match has taken on an added dimension with the news that up to a dozen homes (reputedly occupied by ethnic minorities) were targetted in the aftermath of the game. The earlier violence has been partially blamed by the PSNI on ‘Polish Nationals’ intent on causing trouble. As this article prior to the visit of Poland to Dublin for a friendly international last year illustrates, Polish supporters have earned an unenviable reputation for football thuggery in recent years.
However, the rioting by Northern Ireland fans after the game and the attacks on ethnic minorities will require a proper investigation by the PSNI to see if any specific loyalist grouping was involved. There is no doubt that an element of the Poland travelling support were bent on causing trouble- as the rioting in Windsor Park after the side went three-one down- illustrates. But other actions- such as the inflammatory graffiti targeting Celtic and Poland goalkeeper, Artur Boruc, in the days leading up to the match, as well as the attack on the linesman, Tates Avenue rioting and attacks on ethnic minority households, suggests there was a loyalist element which sought to use the occasion of this match to stoke up tensions and create trouble.
Indeed, the incidents were reminiscent of events almost exactly a year ago, when a loyalist element was blamed on using the much anticipated Cliftonville-Linfield Irish Cup semi-final to raise sectarian tensions. Within hours of that match, a mob viciously attacked a number of people in the predominantly catholic Castle Street area, and it was also revealed that prior to the match, the Cliftonville Manager, Eddie Patterson, had been sent a bullet in the post.
Whilst the Sports Minister has sought to blame an element of the Polish fans for the trouble (apparently for possessing an Eirigi flag???) perhaps when the dust settles he- and others- will look at the matter with a more level head.
In any case, the violence should not detract from a result which finally gets the Northern Ireland campaign out of the start blocks. Sixty miles south, the performance of the Republic of Ireland side provided a sober reminder to the optimists that Trapattoni’s team are far from the finished article, and with Italy just ahead, the road to South Africa has just got a little rockier.
Chris Donnelly @ 02:03 PM
Chris Donnelly: But other actions-...suggests there was a loyalist element which sought to use the occasion of this match to stoke up tensions and create trouble.
So, while it all may look like mindless bigotry carried out by racist thugs, in reality it might be a cunning plan by loyalist masterminds to advance their well concealed political strategy?
Nah.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2009 @ 04:08 PMhttp://www.presseye.com/photolibrary/IUpload/280309JP3_030.JPG
http://www.presseye.com/photolibrary/IUpload/280309JP3_031.JPG
The Northern Ireland fans after the game were locals looking for a fight with the Poles. Don’t shit stir Chris
Posted by on Mar 29, 2009 @ 04:43 PMAs with the student ‘riots’ barely 2 weeks ago. There is one chief culprit here. Booze. People drinking all day and fighting shocka!
As for the match,as a sort of ex amateur goalie, I actually felt some sympathy for Boruc after his howler,not a lot, but some. Can’t find it on youtube yet, but it’s sure to be an instant classic.
Should be a good match on wed night, though the Slovakian fans fave a bit of racist previous.Posted by on Mar 29, 2009 @ 05:02 PMChris - “perhaps when the dust settles he- and others- will look at the matter with a more level head.”
including yourself i may add.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2009 @ 05:12 PMSo, while it all may look like mindless bigotry carried out by racist thugs, in reality it might be a cunning plan by loyalist masterminds to advance their well concealed political strategy?
Reader
Racist attacks in that part of Belfast suggest there is little ‘concealed’ about the strategy of some in the area.
Oh, and I certainly wouldn’t label such individuals as masterminds.
That doesn’t take away from the possibility/ probability that there was a co-ordinated dimension to the incidents that occurred, from the graffiti onward.
Come to think of it, the alternative, that groups of unconnected individuals took it upon themselves to use the match and its unsavoury incidents as cover to launch attacks on ethnic minorities is actually a much worse proposition.
As I’ve illustrated, there is recent form to suggest some elements within loyalism are willing to use local football matches to vent their sectarian/ racist fury on the unsuspecting.
Some mightn’t like that fact, but there you go.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2009 @ 05:56 PMChris Donnelly: ...strategy…co-ordinated…
We aren’t disagreeing on issues of sentiment or principle here. It’s just that I don’t think there is a plan: racists, bigots, homophobes and vigilantes will all act up whenever circumstances offer them a smidgeon of cover.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2009 @ 06:43 PMThe political element to this is that Gregory the Great (if he has not already done so) should be condemning all those involved in the violence and not just the Poles. He will have to do a bit better than “I suspect and heard that there were further scenes of violence then immediately after the game.”
There is a very right wing strain in loyalism which seems to support racist behaviour - the waving of a Republican flag was extrmely provocative but can never be used as a cover for racist attacks.
P.S. Whenever (on Slugger) this is pointed out - it sparks off the most ridiculous series of arguements where various brands of Unionist inist that if loyalists are racist then republicans must be too.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2009 @ 07:35 PMThe political element to this is that Gregory the Great (if he has not already done so) should be condemning all those involved in the violence and not just the Poles. He will have to do a bit better than “I suspect and heard that there were further scenes of violence then immediately after the game.”
There is a very right wing strain in loyalism which seems to support racist behaviour - the waving of a Republican flag was extrmely provocative but can never be used as a cover for racist attacks.
P.S. Whenever (on Slugger) this is pointed out - it sparks off the most ridiculous series of arguements where various brands of Unionist inist that if loyalists are racist then republicans must be too.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2009 @ 07:35 PMChris,
Come to think of it, the alternative, that groups of unconnected individuals took it upon themselves to use the match and its unsavoury incidents as cover to launch attacks on ethnic minorities is actually a much worse proposition.
But we can all sleep soundly in our beds, because Jimmy Spratt condemned the attacks “illogical”. It’s remarkable how unionists mince their words when describing an attack emanating from their own electorate, within weeks of loudly accusing Sinn Fein of the same. I think that is something for people to reflect on; why exactly Jimmy Spratt doesn’t want to offend a certain section of the population.
Posted by on Mar 29, 2009 @ 09:12 PMCD
An commitment of almost Allisteresque proportions to find a deeper conspiracy. As someone who lives in the area (and had a mini-riot at his front door for a couple of hours) the impression I got was more a case of a brain-dead thuggish action leads to brain-dead thuggish reaction than paramilitary strategy - not that such a distinction makes any particular difference to the poor souls who have been attacked and intimidated.
Posted by on Mar 30, 2009 @ 08:33 AMcampbell’s attempt to blame it all on the poles, is only confirmation of his one sided view and proves [if proof were needed] that he’s totally unfit and too out of his depth to hold any office. sadly proof hasn’t been needed on that score for a long time.
naturally, he avoided any mention of the coin throwing or the notorious famine song chants knowing that could only have come from his own side.Posted by on Mar 30, 2009 @ 09:19 AMThe views of a N.I supporter commenting on his own experiences on Saturday - from the N.I supporters forum.
However today I saw Northern Ireland fans beat a family to the ground, innocent Poles getting glassed, outside Hills several guys doing nazi signs attacking anything that moved and after the match some kind of Marshal law as paramilitaries took the area over with bats.I dont give a f**k about the Poles, Im not Polish. Im ashamed at some of our fans, some nasty people using football to vent their own hate and inner frustration out to any unlucky victim.
Posted by on Mar 30, 2009 @ 09:40 AMto sammy mcnally msg 8…. all that happened on saturday only goes to prove my point. that is the some unionist pols and their loyalist fellow travellers don’t recognise any obligations to either the catholic community or equally outsiders to respect any of the said groups. the reason goes back all the way to partition.
As they see it n.i. was created for them as protestants first and foremost which in practice means no need to respect basic democratic or civil rights. so the foreigners used to be the catholics, but that view is not supported by their london masters, they now take the same attitude to the outsiders.
It’s that simple. SECTARIANISM IS REALLY ONLY COLOURBLIND RACISMPosted by on Mar 30, 2009 @ 02:06 PMR.i.p. Artur Boruc
It’s sad to see that 7 years after Lennon left the Northern Ireland set-up, it is still considered okay to paint death threats to Celtic players by some. Gregory seems more concerned with an erigi flag. Maybe Zaluska should have played, Boruc should not have been expected to play under such circumstances. He has looked quite steady any time he came up against the hoops this season. I know the poles have a reputation for football violence as we have saw in major international tournaments. Surely a death threat to one of their most highly regarded players only serves to inflame the situation though. Why was our sports minister not more vocal and assuring polish fans the people who express these sentiments are morons? It is a monumental failure by a minister in charge of our sports. Is it any suprise that most nationalists want nothing to do with The N.I football team?
Posted by on Mar 30, 2009 @ 02:32 PMUSA
FYI it was not Turgon who issued the red card - it was another moderator. Remember the ball not man rule.
Posted by on Mar 30, 2009 @ 04:01 PMUSA
Thanks for the warning but I don’t think I have done anything but point out what the expected actions of somebody in Gregory’s position should have been. Could you imagine graffiti appearing in Drumcondra or the inner city saying RIP Berbatov from a liverpool fan or RIP petrov from some birmingham or west brom fan? It would not happen but I guess that is the problem with a section of the N.I. support. Many Rangers players have played against Ireland in the past and other than boo’s when they touched the ball there was nothing to talk about. I personally would not worry about boo’s during the game, it is part of football and I am sure the Holy Goalie is well used to it by now. On the other hand death threats being painted on walls when visiting another country on international duty is a disgrace on the host nation. Though sadly unsuprising when seven years earlier Neil Lennon had to retire due to a sickening section of the N.I support. It is a shame that a section of the N.I support seem to percieve it as a sin to play in the famous hoops when we think of great names like Bertie Peacock, Charlie Tully and Martin O’Neill although only as manager. These are names that would bring a smile to any true Celtic or Northern Ireland fan’s face. Even in the current squad we have Paddy McCourt and Niall McGinn. What are they to think when a player they train with (in McCourt’s case, when he is not injured) is seen as fair game from a section of their home support?
From the Independant
A spokesman for the Sandy Row Rangers Supporters Club dismissed the graffiti as “probably the work of kids - the height of nonsense, to be disregarded.”
He added: “I see they at least spelt Boruc’s name correctly, so I suppose that’s progress!”Why make a joke out off this? It is not normal for kid’s to paint death threats about international goalkeepers on walls in the weeks preceding internationals. This does not happen anywhere else as far as i know especially not between two teams with as little history as Poland and Northern Ireland. I hope UEFA consider the indifference taken to a threat on a players life when considering the punishment for assaulting a match official. It may serve as a wakening up call. Ignorance will breed bigotry after all. But congratulations to the overwhelming majority of northern Ireland fans on an excellent result. It is just a sad fact for them that gregory campell, who is supposed to be in charge of providing support for football in Northern Ireland, chooses to ignore the threats against an opposing team’s goalie and the assault of a match official. Any grown up minister would have told these people they blacken the name of the decent N.I. supporter and do them no favours. They should not return to windsor park if their idea of support is throwing coins.
Posted by on Mar 30, 2009 @ 05:06 PMPeter Fyfe: They should not return to windsor park if their idea of support is throwing coins.
Good news, then -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/7972237.stm
Let’s hope for a prosecution too.
Posted by on Mar 30, 2009 @ 05:40 PMreader
Great news for decent Northern Ireland fans, good to see swift action.
Posted by on Mar 30, 2009 @ 06:10 PM“Was Boruc booed by the crowd?”
Yes he was. As is every goalkeeper who plays at Windsor Park. It makes them do things like kick the air rather than the ball see?
“Did the NI fans really sing the ‘Famine Song’ popular with Rangers fans?”
No.
Posted by on Mar 31, 2009 @ 07:29 AMCkekov
Regarding Boruc
The level of sectarian abuse was vitriolic (but not surprising)
http://timesonline.typepad.com/fanzine_fanzone/2009/03/and-to-think-th.html
Posted by on Mar 31, 2009 @ 07:52 AMI’ll go with the evidence of my own eyes and ears thanks.
Posted by on Mar 31, 2009 @ 08:17 AMCould you imagine graffiti appearing in Drumcondra or the inner city saying RIP Berbatov from a liverpool fan or RIP petrov from some birmingham or west brom fan?
Painted death threats against Rooney have appeared sporadically in Merseyside.
Not to excuse the racist/sectarian pricks who first painted them up, but what Mr Donnelly has omitted to inform us, is that a Sandy Row youth club took it upon themselves to later paint over the original crap.
Posted by on Mar 31, 2009 @ 08:24 AMoneill
That’s good to hear regarding the actions of a Sandy Row youth club.
Still, it doesn’t do your argument much good to suggest that there is a parallel between Rooney death threats and those directed at Boruc, given the number of attacks that followed on Polish- and other ethnic minority- individuals in the area.
Perhaps away fans need also be reminded of the need to be “sensitive to constitutional realities” at Northern Ireland soccer matches….
FD
I like that Allisteresque line, btw. However, the sheer number of incidents would suggest a level of planning, however crude- as I stated above, there is clear form in this regard, and we’re not exactly dealing with masterminds either.Posted by on Mar 31, 2009 @ 08:34 AMi was watching both utv live and newsline last night, and could only come away with the impression that they had been taken over by the northern ireland supporters club. no mention was made on either programme of the chanting by n.i. fans of the notorious rangers song, normally directed at celtic fans but here adapted for the poles. in the case of utv, no mention was made of the coin throwing incident either. everything that happened was the polish fans fault according to utv. mind you, they have a long track record of this, but usually it’s bias against local catholics.
Posted by on Mar 31, 2009 @ 09:20 AMCD
Still, it doesn’t do your argument much good to suggest that there is a parallel between Rooney death threats and those directed at Boruc, given the number of attacks that followed on Polish- and other ethnic minority- individuals in the areaI don’t have an argument and haven’t drawn any parallels or made any justifications here.
Someone pointed out previously that death threats against players aren’t painted on walls.
They are.Posted by on Mar 31, 2009 @ 09:40 AM
