Sunday, May 25, 2008
First non-registration prosecution
Win or lose an Antrim man will be setting legal history as the first person to be prosecuted for not registering to vote. There are an estimated 200,000 people not registered in Northern ireland
Fair Deal @ 09:43 AM
FD ,
Does this 200,000 include those under 18 ? or immigrants or is it just locals who can’t be bothered ? Seems like a large percentage of the electorate ? 20%? if it includes just NI citizens /subjects over 18 .
Mr Wither’s defence rationale as to why he does’nt bother to vote should make interesting reading ’
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 11:22 AMWhats next are they going to start arresting people for spoiling their ballots. If someone doesn’t want to register its up to him/herself. This should be some sort of joke but it isn’t. What party/parties are behind this does anyone know?
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 11:46 AMgood god
have the authorities got nothing better to do.
I am sure there are still some republicans left in northern ireland who want nothing to do with the state.
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 12:28 PMFair Deal,
As many (including of course yourself) will know many Brethern do not vote (I think Cooneyites may be the same). Do they register or do they object to that on the grounds of conscience as well?Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 12:35 PMFD,
Badly phrased, I am not saying you are Brethern but you have alluded to their voting practice before.Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 12:36 PMWhat moral problem have they got with voting Turgon?
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 12:43 PMTTP,
I think they generally feel that God ordained the rulers and as such they (the Brethren) should not interfere. They also tend to believe in separation of believers from worldly things (such as voting and politics). Not all Brethren refuse to vote. I had a friend at Queen’s who is now a noted Brethren preacher who did feel voting was acceptable. Others I know feel it is something that they are required by their religious conscience not to do.I have included a link to an Exclusive Brethren web site where these doctrines are expounded in some detail. John Nelson Darby and his writings were instrumental in the setting up of the Brethren. Here is another history of the organisation, though they object to being a denomination and are simply groups of believers.
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 01:11 PMI bet they would vote in a Border Poll Turgon. Seriously if there are 200,000 not registered it seems like someone is picking on this bloke.
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 01:33 PMdewi,
There is almost no chance those opposed to voting would vote in a border poll. I have my criticisms of them on a number of things but on issues such as voting those Brethren who feel that way would be singularly lacking in hypocrisy.Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 01:40 PMWow, the government have way too much control over our lives.
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 01:43 PMCan I once again congratulate the sub-editors at the Tele for their fearless quest for manipulation and distortion in the pursuit of readers.
Headline
First prosecution over alleged failure to vote.
Text
An Antrim man will appear in court next month as the first person in Northern Ireland to be prosecuted for allegedly not registering to vote.
Good Luck boys and girls - a career on the Daily Express surely awaits.
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 03:10 PMIt is awfully strange that it is illegal not to register but not illegal to not vote. Tax dollars/pounds put to great use at Westminster.
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 03:53 PMThis requirement to register on pain of penalty in Northern Ireland at least has been in place for quite some time to my knowledge and certainly predates the more rigourous application introduced by the Thatcher government in England and Wales to ensure compliance with the Poll Tax so that the poor could continue to subsidise the rich without hope of escape.
In 1970, I think, - certainly a little time before the internment debacle of August 1971 - a census was undertaken and I arrived home at my parents’ house in County Down where I was then living to find a young woman there asking to collect the census form and then helping my parents to complete it.
Knowing that (a) it was compulsory to register and (b) that I had the right to ask for a form that was separate from my parents on which to do so I forbade my father to enter my name on the household form and asked for a seperate form which when presented I then ostentatiously tore across and threw in the fire openly inviting prosecution. None followed and my parents did upbraid me, not for defying the law (which I think they secretly admired though fearful of the consequences for me)but for emabarrassing the young woman who was after all “only doing her job, the poor wee thing”, as indeed she was.The speedy development of events in the coming months meant that the authorities had more on their plate than the prosecution of register refuseniks and that was the least of matters on which I had given them cause for grievance.
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 04:11 PMJoe,
Not strange at all. By registering, you’re ensuring that someone shady doesn’t register on your behalf. It’s a necessary evil to ensure the validity of the electoral role. This is not a new thing at all.
On the other hand, I do not believe in compulsory voting. My attitude is that if you’re dumb enough not to take the opportunity to have a say in the future governance of the country, it’s your prerogative, but you lose the right to bitch about it.
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 04:12 PMI hadn’t thought of that, Comrade.
Still not foolproof, of course. I went to vote back in the late 60s and discovered that my brother, whose name came directly after mine, had already voted. Thing is, he was living thousands of miles away in Zambia.Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 04:34 PMAs less and less of the electorate choose not to vote in the UK, understanding that, more especially since the total surrender of the Labour Party to the demands of capital, it really makes little difference, it becomes ever more important for the political establishment to overturn that apathy.
The first reason is that they need to maintain the pretence that whichever lapdog party attains power does so by the will of the people. The second reason is that they become decidedly nervous when they firstly cannot contrive compliance in their sham democracy and then become increasingly paranoid when they have no reliable barometer whereby to guage the general will.
Good Ol’ General Will I say. In the long run he’ll whup the ass o’ them fancy guys in the suits.
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 05:33 PMTurgon
“Do they register or do they object to that on the grounds of conscience as well?”
I honestly don’t know.
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 05:49 PMI think I may be able to throw some light on Turgon’s query as to whether “... they register or [whether] they object to that on the grounds of conscience as well?” When I asked her dear, Herself, who is from a Somerset brood of Peebs of some note in their community, she “reckoned” that they would do whatever helped them avoid taxes of any sort and would justify any hypocrisy that supported that principle. Fairly normal people then, in that regard at least, you might say.
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 06:13 PMIf you want to make it even more confusing the Exclusive Brethern (splitters) who don’t vote have been involved in trying to influence elections most notably in Australia
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 06:13 PMMark,
Yes I saw that (by googling Brethren and voting) and it did seem very odd to say the least. They seemed to be saying that they would not vote but wanted to influence how other people voted. I suppose they justified it by saying that they were praying for a certain thing in politics and so should also do something physical. That in spite of that they would not vote seems extremely bizarre.Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 07:21 PMTurgon,
That’s the first time you’ve called me Mark instead of Mr McGregor. Much appreciated and we have the Brethern to thank (though of course they would refuse the thanks seeing it all as part of god’s plan)
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 07:56 PMReformed Presbyterians in Scotland and Ireland: 1833: Voting in political elections forbidden.
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 07:56 PMTouche! Mark
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 08:00 PM“Whats next are they going to start arresting people for spoiling their ballots?”
Now how would that happen when it is a secret ballot??
Turgon
“Do they register or do they object to that on the grounds of conscience as well? “
I always thought the Brethern considered themselves above the things of this world and therefore did not vote. Something to do with how the world is corrupt and you shouldn’t play any part in it. Bit short sighted I always thought but there you go I suppose.
I think prosecuting for failure to register is a good thing, if a wee bit pointless that they don’t prosecute you for not voting. Surely that would be easier just mark off the register as people vote and the those who don’t get a fine posted out to them. Maybe a good money earner for Brown to help rescue the 10p tax saga
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 08:11 PMIt’s nobody’s damned business but mine whether I’m eligible to vote. I have no intention of placing my name on the electoral register. The state should butt out of my affairs.
Posted by on May 25, 2008 @ 08:27 PM
