Friday, October 19, 2007
Education: Ruane likely to go for choices at 14…
THE Education Minister looks likely to be heading for a Dickson Plan-type substitute for the current transfer arrangements. This would mean key educational decisions being taken at 14, when children are more informed about where they want to go. It seems likely unions and other parties can buy into this, although the grammar school lobby will oppose such plans. Lisa Smyth reports: On possible replacements for the 11-plus, Caitriona Ruane has spoken of her desire to see Ulster pupils make choices for future career and employment opportunities at 14. Such a system could see pupils attending their closest school until the age of 14 when they would select what school to attend according to whether they wish to follow a more academic or vocational pathway. (I think it’s been Alliance policy for years, but then they’re used to their policies being nicked...!)
Belfast Gonzo @ 12:49 PM
I think 14 is a more reasonable age for selection
Isn’t there a similar structure already operating around the Portadown area?
Posted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 01:13 PMrubin, Portadown is in the Craigavon/Dickson Plan area.
Posted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 01:27 PMBG, this would also present an opportunity to go for ‘integrated’ schools but I suspect the Churches will lobby for a continuance of ‘faith based’ schools.
Posted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 01:30 PMSo its common entrance at 11 for the Grammars and selection at 14 for all?
What a waste of spacePosted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 01:40 PMI would be very surprised if this was the final outcome. She clearly hasn’t thought through the costs of such a fundamental change.
This is very much Ruane’s first play of hand. It will be for the assembly and the Executive to thrash this out from here.
Posted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 02:24 PMThere really is only one church lobbying for ‘faith based’ schooling and that’s the Roman Catholic church. In general, all the other churches are happy sending their children to state schools, which are not Protestant as the media likes to portray, but they are infact a mixture of religions.
Posted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 03:09 PMThough the majority of state schools have guaranteed board of governor places gauranteed to Protestant clergy through the Transferors Representatives Council and they also get places on the ELB’s. A Protestant ethos guaranteed but safely hidden and roundly denied.
Try finding anything out about the Transferors Representatives Council, you’ll be hard pressed. The non-religious state sector myth is just a very complex deception.
Posted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 03:14 PMAnd the costs of doing this?
Grandstanding rubbish by RuanePosted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 03:15 PMLook out soon for an influential report (chaired by Dr Wilfred Mulryne) extolling the virtues of the Dickson Plan. There is many merits in this solution.
Posted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 03:49 PM.. one of which is not checking grammar before posting :)
.. are many merits ...
Posted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 03:51 PMThis is a compromise and will probably work.
It is a good opportunity to take education into the control of the secular state.
Church clergy will have access to their “flock” but should not have a management /controlling
responsibility.Posted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 05:44 PMHaving gone through the 11+ and Dickson, I can say that Dickson is probably best - but it is still predicated on selection, academic streaming at 13 effectively so I can’t see the radical egalitarians accepting it.
Posted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 05:54 PMGodfrey wrote: “This is very much Ruane’s first play of hand. It will be for the assembly and the Executive to thrash this out from here.”
....until Peter says “No. You’re not allowed”.
And then there will be a discreet cough from Martin, at which point Peter will look up and say:
“Oh. Sorry. It’s you, Cait...sorry...thought you were that other woman...”
Posted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 07:46 PMThis is getting weirder. Are SDLP supporters really trying to run the line: we are a weak but honest party in a collective executive, SF and the DUP rule the roost? Unless they are able to change the structures or turn the tables they are surely advertising their own permanent impotency?
Posted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 08:01 PMIn the Dickson plan pupils have to pass exams to move to the academic school, in the Tele it seemed to suggest the pupil / parents would decide, unworkable?
Posted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 08:04 PMAlex S,
So it’s the Dickson plan minus the academic streaming aka not the Dickson plan.
Posted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 08:13 PMSo we throw the majority of children on the educational scrapheap at 14 instead of 11? Hooray. Or we could stream within properly funded, secular comprehensives.
Posted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 08:36 PMGaribadly,
Would those be the comprehensives which so comprehensively fail?
Posted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 11:16 PMSo we throw the majority of children on the educational scrapheap at 14 instead of 11? Hooray. Or we could stream within properly funded, secular comprehensives.
Posted by Garibaldy on Oct 19, 2007 @ 09:36 PM
At least Garibaldy is being honest in describing the proposed schools as being comprehensives, why is everyone else so reluctant, the English experience perhaps?
Posted by on Oct 19, 2007 @ 11:32 PMWhatever utopian fudge they pass to pull everyone down to the same sub-average plod, the grammar schools will likely continue doing what they have always done. We’ll simply have replaced academic selection with financial selection. Fantastic. A gold star for all!
As many that transferred will no doubt know, there already exists the ability to transfer at 16 on the basis of (gosh) GCSE results. All in all, what the local government is really admitting is the general state system is so awful that they can’t provide satisfactory secondary education.
Posted by on Oct 20, 2007 @ 02:38 AMDavid,
I said properly funded. Which English schools aren’t. Nor are the majority of non-grammar schools in NI.
Posted by on Oct 20, 2007 @ 07:35 AMWhy these constant debates about the English experience? Why not a system that does work?
Posted by on Oct 20, 2007 @ 08:50 AMGonzo
Yes, that looks like Alliance policy alright.
Now we know what George Osborne felt like!
Posted by on Oct 20, 2007 @ 11:41 AM“As many that transferred will no doubt know, there already exists the ability to transfer at 16 on the basis of (gosh) GCSE results”
As at least some of the transferred will no doubt know there already exists the ability to transfer AT THE END OF ANY YEAR should the pupil show the necessary ability (its called the review)
Posted by on Oct 20, 2007 @ 12:50 PMGaribaldy: I said properly funded. Which English schools aren’t. Nor are the majority of non-grammar schools in NI.
What is the difference in funding levels between grammar and non-grammar schools?
Posted by on Oct 20, 2007 @ 08:35 PM
