Friday, August 22, 2008
Eamon got it right
In my earlier post about sporting loyalties, my comment has attracted attention:
My definition of an NI liberal incidentally is someone who wants the Republic (when it is the Republic only) to come in second and even sometimes first. An NI bigot is one who wants the Republic to come in last.
I’ve just remembered the most memorable comment ever on the subject, from sports lover Eamon McCann - ideologically consistent, but just a wee bit unexpected. It was on that day in 2005 when my daughter and I were in her London flat with her English mates watching Northern Ireland vs England at Windsor Park, remember? We ended up on the floor screaming. Not usually like me, I can tell you. Anyway, here’s Eamon’s wonderfully generous piece in full text. Inscribe it on your hearts.
Rooting for England
(Eamonn McCann, Sunday Journal)
“Here’s hoping England give Norn Iron a good spanking,” Andersonstown News editor Robin Livingstone breathed a fervent wish at the beginning of the week.
Many Nationalists across the North will have been wholly in agreement. Few will be fooled by ex-post-facto claims of satisfaction that, in the wondrous event, it was England took the spanking….
Certain politicians pressed for a quote on Thursday morning made the best they could of their sad situation. Those who’d most fanatically hoped to see the North hammered were the ones with rictus grins now affixed to their faces as they forced themselves to say, sure, they were pleased the oul’ enemy had left chastened and chased, with a flea in the ear and no points in the bag.
At the beginning of the week I took part in a handful of radio programmes in which I expressed my hope-against-hope that Lawrie’s lads would eviscerate the Brit mixum-gatherum of millionaire mediocrities. One common Nationalist reaction was sheer incredulity. Ah, come on, you can’t mean it…
Dunphy, Dunseith and Cooper separately suggested there was a stark contradiction here: militant Nationalists cheering on England (never-ending source of all our ills, and so forth) against an Irish eleven.
Maybe. And maybe not.
Take a closer look at Robin Livingstone’s rant.
He would be disappointed, he reckoned, if “the bottomless pit of enmity and the cavernous morass of malice that I bear towards Our Wee Pravince has not by this time articulated itself to everyone who knows me.”
The scornful mimicry of a supposedly distinctive Protestant/Unionist accent may not be as bad-minded as Bernard Manning jeering at the speech-patterns of “Pakis.” The Andytown editor won’t have seen it like that. But the parallels are close enough to be concerning.
Recalling “a flight attendant with a Ballymena accent” welcoming passengers to “Northern Ireland,” Livingstone, “looked up from my book and fired off a dirty look (which) went fizzing past her averted head like a badly-aimed RPG.” We won’t ponder the significance of that choice of simile, for fear of being driven to a disturbing conclusion, but might wonder instead at the derisive reference, again, to an assumed Prod/Unionist accent.
I have a minibus load of nieces from Ballymena. Brilliant broad Ballymena accents, every one of them, that they are not the slightest bit coy about. But I hope they take care to speak sotto voce in the vicinity of Robin Livingstone. He might fire off only verbal missiles. But you never know how others within hearing range might opt to ape him.
“The dread words ‘Northern Ireland’ never pass my lips,” he continued. ” I physically wince every time I hear them.”
Does he now? He must do an awful lot of wincing.
What’s the name of the Assembly the Andytown News is mad keen to see up and running again? The Northern Ireland Assembly.
What Executive did politicians the ‘paper admires serve in with distinction? The Northern Ireland Executive.
What police force has Robin Livingstone’s preferred party pledged to endorse as soon as a few changes (NOT including a name-change) are in place? The Police Service of Northern Ireland.
Strange as it might seem to mainstream broadcasters, the attitudes aren’t contradictory, but complementary.
It’s because some Nationalists are uneasy at their own acceptance of Northern Ireland that they feel they have to make a show of rhetorical opposition to it.
It is because, in practical terms, they have endorsed the legitimacy of the Northern Ireland State that they denounce symbolic representations of it all the more loudly.
The campaign to obliterate Northern Ireland having halted, they turn to battle on who’ll rule the roost within it. Communal hostility replaces the struggle for an all-Ireland. This is a pattern of play which corresponds ever more closely with the political mind-set of the Mad Mullahs of Orangeism.
It’s in this context that militant Nationalism comes to be expressed in a desire to see blue noses ground into the dirt, even by Brits. In fact, especially by Brits.
It is now the main perspective of a growing tendency within Nationalism that a united Ireland can best and maybe only be brought about by England hammering the Prods until they see that there’s no point persisting with, as Robin Livingstone would put it, Our Wee Pravince, and reconcile themselves instead to an all-Ireland arrangement.
It makes sense for such Nationalists to roar England on as they suppress Northern Ireland.
Except that it didn’t work out like that at all, did it? Nor will it in the real world.
Wonderful result at Windsor on Wednesday. Pity the Free State let us down But shouldn’t we be used to that, too, by now?
September 12, 2005
________________
This article appeared in the September 11, 2005 edition of the Sunday Journal.
Brian Walker @ 09:14 AM
Funny enough we discussed this three year old article, um, three years ago:
http://www.sluggerotoole.com/archives/2005/09/how_republicans.php
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 11:04 AMNever did like that squinter - all his articles in the ATN I ever read were so bitter and violent that it would count as incitement to racial hatred in any other newspaper.
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 12:29 PMNorthern Ireland still is not a state.
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 12:32 PMEamonn McCann’s always a good read, even if I don’t agree with a lot of what he says.
In this case, I know plenty of taigs, myself included, who like to see norn iron do well. I wouldn’t call myself a “supporter” per se, but then I’m not really a “supporter” of any club team either.
BTW off topic a bit, but for any of you who haven’t read “War and an Irish Town”, give it a go. Probably the best book on the outbreak of the troubles I’ve read, with tonnes of detail on the start of the civil rights movement that has been forgotten by many.
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 01:02 PM“Northern Ireland still is not a state”
Correct, it’s a football team.
Can someone start a thread on the Newsletters front page headline that there should be a new Northern Ireland football anthem after the NI supporters were slegged by the Scots for having to use GSTQ.
What would nationalists like to see - those that can be persuaded. “There’s only one Ireland” comments or suggestions that the RoI anthem be used are unhelpful. I mean, if you can share stormount with the prods, surely you can share the football team - nats used to support it, maybe they can again.
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 02:08 PMthere are more than a few biter and twisted people in NI on both sides. ive often thought that they actually need psychological treatment or some sort of counciling. havent we all read or heard something and thought ‘hes Fing mad!!’ ?they certainly shouldnt get a job in a newspaper.
think about the sort of thoughts that would be going round the head of a biter republican or biter loyalist. everything seen through an us and them sectarian hate filter. theres political beliefs etc and then theres mental problems.
i honestly think people like that should be considered to have a mental illness. perhaps with councilling sessions they might be able to rid themselves of that thinking. Its like some sort of obsessive compulsive disorder…Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 02:09 PMFor nationalists, GTSQ is untenable, especially when Scotland and Wales don’t use it. I wouldn’t expect Unionist Northern Ireland fans to accept Amhrán na bhFiann so Londonderry Air/Danny Boy probably should be enough to placate both sides.
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 02:50 PMWould someone* who posted the following apalling, etc anti-australian comment “...and the British achievement is one in the eye for the Ozzies as the BBC’s Nick Bryant reported” also be bigoted under the definition?
*Posted on SluggerMeTool by a certain Brian Walker on Aug 19, 2008 @ 10:32 AM - who by a strange coincidence shares his name with Bri above.
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 02:51 PMsammy - if you bothered reading the article Brian linked to, it was all about how the aussies are reacting with such dismay at coming second to GB - it making headlines there - while all we have heard from the GB media is pride at coming 3rd, not “yay we’re beating the frogs” or whatever.
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 03:03 PMHow about “Sweet Caroline” or “Dirty Old Town”? Yes, I realise there are certain inconsistencies in both suggestions, but both would guarantee the side never, ever, ever being outsung again.
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 03:05 PMI would accept a change in anthem if the English also got rid of GSTQ for their games…...
The the 4 parts of the UK would have their own anthems, and for state occasions etc we would use GSTQ for the anthem of our United Kingdom.
A unilateral move to get rid of GSTQ couldn’t be sold to a large swathe of NI support…..
As a Northern ireland fan, I have to say that I normally wish BOTH England and the ROI ill will in any football tournament or match. It has nothing to do with their nationality but more to do with the fact that I hate the way Northern irish media go on about both teams as if they were ours when clearly they are not.
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 03:27 PMDK,
Yes - I did read it - making fun of their press is one thing but I sincerley hope you are not trying to justify the dreadfully jingoistic line “...and the British achievement is one in the eye for the Ozzies as the BBC’s Nick Bryant reported” which seems to be revelling in the mistfortune if not the maiming of others - shame.
Or perhaps such stuff is not to be fretted over and those who are so liberal in their charges of bigotry should loosen up a bit.
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 03:59 PMBeing somewhat cynical, I’d be more inclined to the view that the anti-state rhetoric from media hacks aligned to pro-state parties is more to do with propaganda that facilitates constituency-management rather than psychodynamics. The Shinners are just tools of the British state, whose only remaining useful function to their masters is to integrate the formerly disenfranchised militant nationalists into the reformed political system in NI. I say ‘only remaining’ because their deployment to perform their other useful function of proffering a pro-British unified state as devised in the GFA as a fallback position if NI ‘goes native’ is unlikely to ever be required.
The Shinners and their paymasters really destroyed those poor people, erasing any prospect of a united Ireland. And why indeed would they even want to unite with a country that they dismiss as the ‘free state’ and which they regard as having abandoned them? Just for a victory over the prods, and a victory (revenge) over the Republic. Yet it was they who failed to keep faith with the Republic and its strategy of constitutional republicanism; and had they kept that faith, they’d probably be in a united Ireland by now rather than formally renouncing their right to self-determination and accepting the constitutional legitimacy of partition.
They can cheer on those who wish to destroy NI on the football fields and such safe proxies, but in the real world, they vote for those who consolidated the union. Destruction is fine and dandy, but just as long as it doesn’t involve self-destruction: “Brits out – but not if I lose my job.”
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 07:36 PMOh, for fuckk’s sake.
“Inscribe it on your hearts”? “Shove it up your bollocks!”
I do not support them because of the right-wing, UFF scarf-wearing, UVF banner-waving, Rangers top-wearing, National Front-chanting, Linfield fans - and England fans - who support Northern Ireland still support them. I do not support them because, historically, my support would not be welcome by many of the people who go to Windsor. And I do not support them as I feel that my life would be in danger in Windsor Park - hardly conducive to a fun day out.
More positively, I do support a team which seems not to have a black heart. I do not believe that fans of the Republic create the poisonous atmosphere that often exists in Windsor Park.
Eamonn mcCann makes some valid points. I agree with many of them but I doubt that either of us could go to Windsor and wear, say, a Celtic top. But many fans wear Rangers jerseys. I notice, too, that NI supporters clubs are all in loyalist areas. Again, I would feel unwelcome.
It is telling that when someone wrote a play about Northern Ireland the result was A Night in November. When a play was written about the Republic it was I, Keano. Says a lot, really.
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 08:48 PM“We ended up on the floor screaming. Not usually like me, I can tell you.”
What on earth were you doing?
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 08:51 PMThey probably just got the quotes back for the wedding. If you were retired on a BBC pension, you’d scream too.
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 09:13 PM“NI supporters clubs are all in loyalist areas.”
Shaftesbury Square?
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 09:15 PM“Eamon got it right”
He certainly did, Brian.
Touch a nerve there, b-JR?
“a flight attendant with a Ballymena accent” welcoming passengers to “Northern Ireland,” Livingstone, “looked up from my book and fired off a dirty look (which) went fizzing past her averted head like a badly-aimed RPG.”
Well, how very dare she!!
Clearly deserving of “a dirty look”.
She should have said “the Six Counties”.. in a west Belfast accent.
This tendency to imagine that, if you wish hard enough, really really hard enough, Northern Ireland [i.e the border] doesn’t actually exist.. it’s a political psychosis that does nothing for anyone’s long-term mental health.
A response I may adopt in future whenever anyone asks why I use the accurate names for Londonderry, Derry City Council, City of Derry Airport.
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 09:35 PM“one in the eye for the Ozzies”
Pommie bastards.
I console myself with Bill Bryson’s calculation (can’t recall which Games) that when you consider our Aussie medal total (all grades) in ratio to our population we Aussies come out top of the world, Germany a poor second, UK,USA, etc nowhere close.
Regards to all.
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 09:38 PM“Eamonn mcCann makes some valid points. I agree with many of them but I doubt that either of us could go to Windsor and wear, say, a Celtic top. But many fans wear Rangers jerseys. I notice, too, that NI supporters clubs are all in loyalist areas. Again, I would feel unwelcome.
It is telling that when someone wrote a play about Northern Ireland the result was A Night in November. When a play was written about the Republic it was I, Keano. Says a lot, really.
Posted by billie-Joe Remarkable on Aug 22, 2008 @ 10:48 PM”
billie,
Nice one sided reference comparing Celtic tops and Rangers tops at Windsor…. the situation is exactly reversed at ROI internationals. As many supporters there wear Celtic shirts to their games….. At least try and be balanced.
And just to let you know, the Rangers tops and the crazy scarves are 99% a thing of the past at Norn Iron games. You are right in one thing, some people who go to Norn Iron games have a very Orange and British definition of why they are there, but the vast majority have bought into the GAWA thing with the green tops….
Just as in Dublin, many people go to ROI games with a vision of a Catholic, ultra Irish, Gaelic Ireland and feel that supporting the ROI is all about that….And if you are proud of Saipan and the farce of the 2002 WC then good luck to you….
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 09:38 PMOh and IIRC it’s twenty years since the Poms got ahead of us in the medal tally.
Posted by on Aug 22, 2008 @ 09:40 PMHead the ball: I console myself with Bill Bryson’s calculation (can’t recall which Games) that when you consider our Aussie medal total (all grades) in ratio to our population we Aussies come out top of the world, Germany a poor second, UK,USA, etc nowhere close.
You’re slipping a bit these days though:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7576446.stm
Posted by on Aug 23, 2008 @ 12:26 AM“And if you are proud of Saipan and the farce of the 2002 WC then good luck to you….” Eh? Proud? Saipan? Who mentioned….oh, it doesn’t matter.
All national teams will have fans wearing the national colours - that’s the point. At windor it’s all of the other paraphernalia that goes with it that cannot be defended or ignored (though clearly many people try to, including on this blog.
In Dublin they don’t have National Front banners, UVF or UFF banners and they don’t have the poisonous, sectarian racist atmosphere that is typical of Windsor.
Shaftesbury Square is right next to Sandy Row and ‘the Rangers’ club as well you know. And the Rangers fans - and they were rangers fans, and one guy in an England top and lots of tattoos - I saw at it earlier in the year didn’t seem like they would want too many nationalists near them. I was near windsor the night they beat England. I personally saw the Rangers and Linfield tops and I certainly heard the chants. Sectarian chants.
I’m sure there are plenty of “decent” (I think that’s how they like to describe themselves) NI fans. I’m positive there are many, many sectarian racists - I hear them singing during the games. And of course there’s God Save The Queen.
I, Keano versus A Night in November - it really does say it all.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2008 @ 09:26 AMPosted by billie-Joe Remarkable on Aug 23, 2008 @ 11:26 AM
“In Dublin they don’t have National Front banners, UVF or UFF banners and they don’t have the poisonous, sectarian racist atmosphere that is typical of Windsor.”
They don’t have any of that stuff in Windsor either mate…. grow up
Shaftesbury Square is right next to Sandy Row and ‘the Rangers’ club as well you know.
Hmmm, NO…. One is a main square in Belfast and the other is actually on Sandy Row a few hundred yards away…. Just for the record… places that are closer to the Ranger’s Supporters Club than the Shaftesbury Square NI club are
Speranza’s,
The M Club
The Northern Bank
The Kentucky Fried Chicken in Bradbury Place
Lavery’s
The Moravian Church at the beginning of the Lisburn Road….And Paul Rankin’s place is only feet away fromthe NI club….
I’m sure that the owners of these places will be delighted to hear you write them off as UVF infested loyalist dens of bigotry….
I was AT Windsor the night England were beat and I heard NO sectarian chants. Grow up.
Your views shine through when you have to qualify a “decent” statement when referring to NI fans…
Oh and by the way billy, I Keano is a play that centers on the farce that was Saipan when one of the worlds top footballers couldn’t be arsed hanging around an amateurish setup….. SO as I say, if you are proud of that then good luck.
Got to say, I never come so close to playing the man not the ball when i read that utter tripe.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2008 @ 10:07 AMWindsor Rocker
Billie Joe Unremarkable is a troll, don´t feed his sectarian fantasies, just ignore it.
Onwards and Upwards.
Posted by on Aug 23, 2008 @ 01:05 PM
