Monday, May 01, 2006
DUP man says no to centenarian bounty
Jeffrey Donaldson is not impressed with the Irish government’s plans to offer a ‘centenarian’s bounty’ of £1,700 to anyone in Ireland reaching the age of 100. The DUP MP believes there is a political agenda at work, though his call for Dublin to be “more sensitive about unionist feelings” could be an early contender for MOPE comment of the year- how more sensitive can you get than to offer someone seventeen hundred pounds???
Chris Donnelly @ 02:47 PM
replace ‘bounty’ with ‘reparations’ and Jeffry might be happier
Posted by on May 01, 2006 @ 08:12 PMEvery sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.Posted by on May 01, 2006 @ 08:18 PMI have a little budgie;
He is my very pal.
I take him walks in Britain;
I hope I always shall.Lyric Maestro
Posted by on May 01, 2006 @ 08:35 PMDec
“Northern Ireland is not the jurisdiction of the US government either, but I don’t I don’t recall you ever getting on your Unionist high horse over International Fund for Ireland grants.”
Then you have a very bad memory. Unionist politicians called for a boycott of the IFI and described it as blood money.
Mark
Fair enough - teach me for not reading the article to the end
David Michael
“What was the name of the country all those Irish centenarians were living in a century ago?”
They were born British citizens in the United Kingdom a century ago ;). Irish citizens didn’t exist.
“what’s all this ballocks about “ those born ‘on the island of Ireland’”?”
Err because the jurisdiction of the government of Ireland and island of Ireland are two different units. This difference is what we have been arguing about since 1921.
Posted by on May 01, 2006 @ 09:36 PMMr Mars
Thanks for that, a really good laugh!Things were getting very serious around herePosted by on May 01, 2006 @ 09:40 PMfair_deal
I do think that 100 years ago a man living in either Belfast or Dublin would have considered his country to have been “Ireland”. The fact that it was part of a larger unit called the United Kingdom doesn’t take away from that. So why not reward him for having been born in Ireland and survived in Ireland for a century, despite Sellafield and the ultratoxic Irish Sea?
Re “the island of Ireland”: Politics aside, the argument stands. Both Belfast and Dublin are in the island of Ireland, in the same way that, say, Havana is in - not on - Cuba. Palma on the other hand could be said to be on Mallorca. It’s a question of magnitude.
Posted by on May 01, 2006 @ 10:32 PMJeffrey should advise DUP-loving centenarians to apply for the cash and then give it as a donation to DUP funds or the OO. Never look a gift-horse in the gob Jeffrey.
Posted by on May 01, 2006 @ 10:37 PMIt would be enough to make you want Big Ian to live to be 100................ wouldn’t it?
Posted by on May 01, 2006 @ 11:16 PMJD is right, of course. This is a Presidential affair and the thought that the McAleeses didn’t understand the implications doesn’t wash.
But who can reasonably object, when it is voluntary? It is a clever enough move.However JD is offended because it cuts across the concept of NI as part of the UK, and that of the ROI is a foreign country. I am sure the Germans wouldn’t offer the Danes centenary money, or the Spanish offer it to the Portuguese.
But of course, NI is not like Portugal or Denmark. It fails the test of being a nation. It fails the test of even being a province. And, failing these tests, JD’s protests have the ring of inauthenticity. Episodes such as this remind us that the constitutional position of NI is unfinished business.
Which, I am fairly sure, is the intention.
Posted by on May 02, 2006 @ 12:33 AMpid
To use your analogy perhaps a better comparison would be to wonder how the Poles would feel if the Germans made a similar gesture to people living in what was once Prussia?
But let’s ease up and just take this as a positive gesture something we can all look forward to receiving (or refusing) some day.
Posted by on May 02, 2006 @ 01:37 AMin a country ("in Ireland")
on an island ("on the island of Ireland")
Who trains these people who worry about who trains these people?
Posted by on May 02, 2006 @ 02:04 AMmuppet, but then you can expect nothing less, all day twiddling his thumbs he has to say something now and then to earn his dosh
Posted by on May 02, 2006 @ 06:12 AM“Who trains these people who worry about who trains these people?”
No one’s worrying, gg. I’m simply sensitive to language, OK? Lots of people here are sensitive to stuff I couldn’t give a tinker’s toss about: flags for instance.
It irritates my sensitive language lover’s soul when people come out with “I should have went” or “I would be an Elvis fan”. What, I think at such moments, you’d be a fan if he weren’t dead?
I know. Anal retentive. But which of us hasn’t had an anus at one time or another? :)
Posted by on May 02, 2006 @ 06:37 AMMars is bigger than Uranus
Posted by on May 02, 2006 @ 08:33 AMDM
“What was the name of the country all those Irish centenarians were living in a century ago? Northern Ireland”er whisper it (it upsets the natives you see) the name of the country was wit for it-- the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland
Posted by on May 02, 2006 @ 08:57 AM“Mars is bigger than Uranus”
True. But does Marianne Faithfull know?
barnshee:
It’s the year 1906. A boat docks. An American sailor steps ashore, having braved an Atlantic crossing. He spots a local.
Sailor: “Say, buddy, what country is this, England?”
Local: “Ah now, sor, no. This would be the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.”
If it works for you, barnshee, who am I to say it’s ridiculous?
Posted by on May 02, 2006 @ 09:07 AM“To use your analogy perhaps a better comparison would be to wonder how the Poles would feel if the Germans made a similar gesture to people living in what was once Prussia? “
I would think a better analogy would be pre 1990 the West German government offers a simliar payment to people born in Germany pre-1945, including East Germans.
Posted by on May 02, 2006 @ 10:11 AMIn 1784, a french ballonist set off to cross the english channel. It got foggy and he dumped some ballast to see if he had reached England or Ireland.As he came out of the mist in sight of land he spotted a man working in a field. So, using his best english accent he shouted “exuse me sir, where am I?’
The reply was “begorrah, you can’t fool me; you’re up there in that balloon”.Posted by on May 02, 2006 @ 12:42 PMpid on Northern Ireland “It fails the test of being a nation. It fails the test of even being a province.”
Nation is an ambiguous term. By the terms of its own constitution Ireland (the Republic) isn’t a nation, as Irish people living elsewhere are also part of “the nation”.
As for province, Northern Ireland is a province, it’s just so contiguous with the more commonly used, most recently defined Irish province of Ulster, but then again “Ulster” has also being a floating concept politically.
On the subject at hand it’s worth remembering that Northern Ireland isn’t unique here. If an Irish citizen has been living on the British mainland and reaches 100, they too can claim the money.
File this story under “nothing bigger to worry about”.
Posted by on May 02, 2006 @ 12:51 PMKeith M,
On the subject at hand it’s worth remembering that Northern Ireland isn’t unique here. If an Irish citizen has been living on the British mainland and reaches 100, they too can claim the money.
You just said that so that you could wind us all up by saying ‘British mainland’, didn’t you? ;-)
The bounty applies, so it seems, regardless of where in the whole world a centenarian happens to live - the USA, Australia, Upper Volta, you naame it.
Posted by on May 02, 2006 @ 12:59 PMI’m afraid I might push you on this one, Keith M. NI is not a province, NI is not Ulster. Ulster might be a floating concept politically, but geographically it’s borders are well-known. Stormont attempted to change the name of NI to Ulster in the Fifties and failed. Can people claim that Inishowen is not in Ulster?
If Ulster had been partitioned from the rest of Ireland, it would have a much stronger case for it’s separateness as a political entity. Ulster has a unique history, culture and dialect. But there were too many Catholics, so Ulster was partitioned. 3 counties are in the Republic, 6 in NI. And this partitioning of Ulster, in my opinion, de-legitimizes NI’s raison d’etre. It’s a state based on a sectarian headcount, and doesn’t deserve to survive. Ulster on the other hand....
Posted by on May 02, 2006 @ 02:29 PMpid “NI is not a province”.
I think you’ll find that it is. From dictionary.com; “A territory governed as an administrative or political unit of a country or empire.”“NI is not Ulster.” I never said it was. In fact I pointed out that it wasn’t.
You seem to totally forget that the current definition of “Ulster” is a British creation. It is simply comtiguous with the nine counties, which were also a Britisjh invention.
Ulster (or Ulaid) prior to the arrival of the Normans was a very different shape.
“Ulster has a unique history, culture and dialect.” I’d dispute that there was anything exceptionally unique about “Ulster” history prior to the IFS leaving the U.K. Also historically I would also argue that there was a unique culture that somehow ended at the Armagh/ Louth or Donegal/Sligo boundaries.
“You just said that so that you could wind us all up by saying ‘British mainland’, didn’t you? ;-)”
If I wanted to wind you up I would have said “Eastern part of the British Isles” ;-))
Posted by on May 02, 2006 @ 06:34 PMWhat a load of shite.
I think if it was brought forward to forty it would be much better, and I would quite gladly take money from whoever wants to give me some for a good piss up.
Anyway, what political agenda could there be for giving some old git 2,500 Euros?
I have now heard it all....
Posted by on May 02, 2006 @ 06:53 PMGood points, fairly put. Keith. There is a sharper cultural interface between Donegal and Sligo than Armagh and Louth, and I’m not referring to Tom Murphy’s house. I believe the old province of Oriel included parts of Cavan, Monaghan, Armagh and Louth. It’s music is promoted by Pádraigín ní Úllacháin. I seem to recall Briain Ó Sé commenting on a sharp difference in dialect at the Leitrim / Fermanagh border; in my own personal experience this is still true down Bundoran way. My point is (and I accept your corrections on the dictionary definition of a province)that NI was created in order to provide a protestant-majority state (that The IFS was created to provide a catholic-majority state is also true). Therefore, from a democratic point of view, it is fatally flawed. Majoritarian spokesmen such as Jeffrey Donaldson who decry the ‘interference’of a foreign state in NI’s affairs, as with the centenary money are being disingenuous. The ROI (and GB) are not foreign in NI. It is disputed territory. Since it was created the only issue at election time is it’s constitutional position. We have to sort that out and I think that a way forward might be in the promotion of Ulster as a political entity rather than NI. Anyone for a united Ulster?
Posted by on May 03, 2006 @ 01:02 AM“I’d dispute that there was anything exceptionally unique about “Ulster” history prior to the IFS leaving the U.K”
Ever had a glance at the Táin?
Posted by on May 03, 2006 @ 06:02 AM
