Wednesday, May 07, 2008
DUP reaction to IMC
I have mentioned the DUP reaction to the IMC report previously. I am, however, a little surprised that all that we have had has been Gregory Campbell’s statement last Thursday. Clearly there has been a bank holiday but I did expect additional coverage from them by now. The DUP may feel that after this statement, keeping their collective heads down is the best idea. Again it is not for me to advise the DUP on tactics but I do feel this is a flawed plan.
Whatever the IMC say, I suspect the overwhelming majority of unionists (and maybe many nationalists?) will regard the Quinn murder as the work of the IRA. The niceties of “corporate responsibility” etc. will be seen by many as rather poor whitewash. Even if by some chance the murder was not by the IRA; I have absolutely no doubt that the general unionist perception is that it was. Hence, to keep relatively quiet on the issue may well be a mistake. It will produce the perception that the DUP are holding back on going after republicans as they used to do. In this I suspect their inaction will undo some of the positive benefits they have reaped from abandoning the chuckle coalition.
I would have thought at the very least the DUP would have used this murder as a further reason to delay the devolution of policing and justice, possibly for months or even years. I do feel that the initial minimisation of this issue with Donaldson talking about the IRA possibly not being corporately responsible and Robinson saying the murder was “not centrally ordered” was a political error and the latest statement, logical conclusion as it may be from the previous comments is again an error.
The DUP appear to be in danger of being locked into doing very little about a crime that very many regard as an IRA crime. Even if the DUP come up with a more significant response later it will look, several days after the IMC report, as if they are scrambling to make up for misreading the unionist community’s perception of this event. Either way I feel this is a further example of the DUP misreading grass roots unionist opinion. I also suspect that many in the nationalist / republican community are utterly fed up with all IRA violence. Unionists would do well to remember that the majority of nationalists were opposed to terrorism throughout the troubles and as such many may be no happier about brushing this murder’s consequences under the carpet than many unionists.
Most people on all sides of the community may not want to collapse the executive over this killing but I do not think that the DUP are helping themselves with their current reaction. Pressure from any quarter which could result in reducing and eventually ending the reign of fear which paramilitaries of both sides have over certain parts of Northern Ireland might well be welcomed in quarters.
Then again of course I am opposed to the whole agreement on multiple different levels so maybe it is me misreading what unionists think and I have never claimed to be able to say what nationalists think.
Turgon @ 06:48 PM
Billy Pilgrim
The provos pledged to drive out the Brits and ‘free’ Ireland. That did not happen because they lost their unwinnable war. The Brits beat the provos to a pulp, gave them generous terms of surrender and some of them jobs in the British government. And the provos are such brave men it takes eight or more of them to beat a lad to death, 8 to 1, nice odds.
There is a criminal class in South Armagh and most of them are linked to the provos, criminals=provos. It does not matter if it is PIRA, RIRA, CIRA they are all provo scum.
They lost their war. They are lucky they are not rotting in POW camps. They are on top of all the tricks and tricksters in South Amragh and elsewhere. They murdered Paul Quinn. They prey on the Catholic communities. They are cocky buggers.
Your provo apology piece above is laughable and extreme self-delusion, if you actually believe
it. The provos deserve every bashing that comes their way, they have done nothing good for their community and continue to kill their neighbors. That’s why they need to be gone.Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 02:47 PMBilly Pilgrim on the Quinn killers:
“They aren’t IRA any more, but their background in the IRA is the basis for their authority. However their actions today and in the future have nothing to do with the IRA.”
You aren’t Colin Wallace?
Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 03:11 PMI do not regard Billys piece as “provo apologism”.
Sorry if I am responding to a troll, but this smacks of the *either you’re with us, or your’re a terrorist or terrorist supporter argument”.
I appreciate that people hold this belief, but it’s still asinine.
Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 05:51 PMJo
The piece is “provo apologism”. It is full of excuses as to why they are criminals. Some people have been pleading for a long time that they just need more time to adjust to the new order. The murder of Paul Quinn showed that they have not changed after ten years. They have had enough time to change, there should be no more excuses for them.
Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 06:41 PM“they have not changed “
No one has produced conclusive evidence that the PIRA organisation was involved in this, desoute the anicked reactions of certain politicians and the hyper active SF PR machine.
But I am interested. Who are “they”?
“Themmuns”, perhaps?
Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 07:31 PMSure, c’mon, “themmuns” never change.
Sure, the Provies hoisted babies up on bayonets.
Or was that the Elizabethan Army.
Or the Huns in WW1.
Never could work it out.
Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 07:33 PMBilly,
Do you not think that as a result of the IMC giving SF the fig-leaf required, that the police CAN now go into the area of SA and arrest the killers.
SF can’t cry “political policing” because they’ve condemned the murder and said those responsible are criminals.Posted by on May 08, 2008 @ 10:28 PMI can see that Jo will only be convinced when someone produces the Army Council’s minute book and points to “Item 7 - Paul Quinn murder”. Although even then, she’d probably complain it was a forgery by Jim Allister and David Vance. Funnily enough, the Quinn family and their supporters are happy to point the finger at local republicans and I’d trust them before a naive/evasive hear-no-evil-see-no-evil liberal like Jo.
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 11:45 AMWatchman
Most of the local Quinn supporters fit the IMC description as perpetrators and are only too happy to point at possible suspects because they are formemr members and associates of former members and aren’t to happy with the label “former”
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 12:24 PMNew Yorker
“The Brits beat the provos to a pulp,”
Not in south Armagh they didn’t.
Have you ever been to south Armagh? Have you ever been to Ireland? If you think that I’m a “Provo apologist” then I’m going to respond by simply calling you a thick-skulled moron. One insult deserves another.
“It is full of excuses as to why they are criminals.”
Excuses? Didn’t I state that these are people who have been corrupted by the power they enjoy? I don’t think that ex-Provos engaged in crime should be given political cover, or that they should be given any special indulgence by the population of south Armagh, but I recognise that they do get political cover and special indulgence, and I understand the reasons why this is the case. It’s not right, it’s not okay and it is something that will have to change, but it hasn’t happened by accident. It’s a problem with deep roots, and your ham-fisted grasp of the issue will always be totally useless in trying to solve it.
Watchman
Who is Colin Wallace?
Percy
“Do you not think that as a result of the IMC giving SF the fig-leaf required, that the police CAN now go into the area of SA and arrest the killers. SF can’t cry “political policing” because they’ve condemned the murder and said those responsible are criminals.”
People in south Armagh are actually capable of having opinions of their own, they don’t need SF to tell them to be angry when they see cops kicking in doors, or what ever.
Of course the cops have carried out an investigation in south Armagh that they could not logistically have managed a few years ago (interestingly, with Gardai also carrying out interviews in Crossmaglen and Cullyhanna) but the trouble is, people in south Armagh are still loath to give information to the police. As I said, they have long memories.
If SF disbanded and every IRA man jumped into the sea tomorrow, people in south Armagh would still be loath to give information to the police. Trouble is, this makes life easier for criminals. In fairness to the cops, it’s not easy to get convictions when people don’t want to make statements. So people in south Armagh are torn - they quite reasonably distrust and dislike the police and forces of the state, but in doing so, make themselves vulnerable to criminals.
The only solution I can see is to repair the relationship between the law-abiding people of south Armagh and the police. Then the cops can go after the criminals. But I can only see that being possible with a republican Minister for Justice at the helm. Since I can’t see SF feeling inclined to do anything about it, I think it’ll fall to a FF justice minister to do it.
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 06:08 PMBilly Pilgrim
I have spent a fair amount of time in South Armagh. You are living in a fictional South Armagh believing the provo mythology. For instance, you seem to believe that the Brits did not beat the provos but South Armagh is still part of the UK - check the plates on your car or the pounds in your pocket. Through intelligence and especially shot-to-kill the Brits reduced the provos to quivering cowards desperate to talk. Why did they need 8 men to take on a 21 year old? They lost their war showing cowardice and continue to be cowards huddling together.
You also believe the provo mythology about people never speaking to the cops. That came in after 1971. Before that the constable, usually a Catholic, used to ride around the square and area on a bicycle. Not everyone spoke to him as many were doing some smuggling and up to other tricks, but most people would speak to him. The truth is that the provos don’t want people to have a good relationship with the cops because of their criminal activities. And SF may say support the cops but everybody knows they mean the opposite.
You need to rid yourself of the provo mythology and see them for what they are and always have been. Then things can improve in South Armagh. Otherwise South Armagh will remain a backwater where the provos keep the people hostage and kill someone when it takes their fancy and the rest of the world leaves South Armagh behind. Just look South and ask why things are not as good once you cross the border.
Posted by on May 09, 2008 @ 09:12 PM
