Wednesday, July 23, 2008
Downing Street visit “routine”..
Whilst the Northern Ireland Executive grinds to a halt the DUP and Sinn Féin have been visiting Gordon Brown in Downing St. Separately, of course. [I’m sure he appreciates the timing - Ed]. NI First Minister Peter Robinson, and Culture Minister Gregory Campbell, dropped in yesterday. Today it was the turn of deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams, MP, MLA.
Indeed.The DUP has played down talk of deadlock at Stormont, while Sinn Féin described its Downing Street visit as “routine”.
Pete Baker @ 06:49 PM
So what do you think is going on Pete?
Or is it a free for all?
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 07:21 PMSince when was Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams visiting Downing Street routine?
What a freak show and poor Gordo has real problems to deal with.
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 07:37 PManother negative, witless post
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 08:48 PMEoghan
As Peat Blog suggests, such ‘visits’ are, or should be, far from ‘routine’ now.
percy
Everyone’s a critic..
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 08:56 PMPrionsa,
What’s going on is that the Executive is in trouble, but the two parties are trying to hide it, rather than doing what they did a couple of months ago.
percy, looks to me like Pete is reporting fairly on the actual situation. The emperor has no clothes.
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 08:57 PMCS
Indeed but as usual the finger points to SF.
The DUP & SF are both responsible for the impassePosted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 09:00 PMWhy is that all they can do? Concentrating on small sectarian victories instead of taking decisions on the big issues like health, education and jobs.
I thought maybe they could rise above that level to actually work for all the people here but once again they prove they are still mired in the past.
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 09:00 PM“Indeed but as usual the finger points to SF.”
Yes, the DUP finger points to SF and vice versa. Playground politics.
I don’t understand why the other two parties in the Executive don’t threaten to pull out as they appear either imputent or irrelavant.
Thinly veiled proxy battles cannot be masked by a few smiles and a smattering of conciliatory words.
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 09:10 PMpeteb
point me to one post of yours where you’ve critisised or shone the spotlight on the DUP for failing to reach agreement ( with their partners in Gov’t—that’s be SF for those who just don’t get it ) on P&J;or the Maze or ILA.Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 09:12 PMpercy,
It’s SF creating unilateral preconditions which is the problem here.
I don’t understand why the other two parties in the Executive don’t threaten to pull out as they appear either imputent or irrelavant.
Politicians find it awfully hard to let go of power, even when it would be strategically benefical for them to do so.
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 09:27 PMThe frog is getting tired of the scorpion on it’s back even though they have several miles left to cross river .
Sonner or later the frog is going to dive for the bottom and as soon as he does the scorpion will strike the fatal blow which will demise them both .
It’s only a matter of time . This ‘unnnatural ‘ coalition of opposites is a barely floating political corpse on intra venous feed .
On to a fair and negotiated ‘Repartition’ and be done with another failed experiment in trying to bring accountable ‘democracy’ to an inherently undemocratic artificial state which would’nt survive more than five minutes if it were located anywhere else on the planet.
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 09:28 PMThe DUP are out of step with all the other important parties (Irish Govt, Engleze Govt and SF ) on Police and Justice. Grizzly should tell El Gordo that he has until the end of September to get Robbo in to line or he will pull the plug. As mentioned many times before ( on the same subject ) a few threats normally does the trick - papal influence from the South and pagan influence in the form of abortion from Britain ought to do it.
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 09:31 PMpercy
No matter how much you might wish it to be otherwise, the current situation is that there was no commitment to reach agreement on those issues within a set time-frame [May 2008]. Despite what some have said..
But my analysis of the background to the current crisis is there to be falsified.
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 09:33 PM“papal influence from the South and pagan influence in the form of abortion from Britain ought to do it”
You make it sound like the last days of the Roman Empire, except the Vandals and the Huns are within.
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 09:36 PMfrustrated democrat ,
‘I thought maybe they could rise above that level to actually work for all the people here but once again they prove they are still mired in the past’
One of the physical properties of black holes in the universe is that once you are in one there is no escape. The same is true of the political’black hole’ that is Northern Ireland . Even if both parties had first rate political leaders who desired to ‘break ‘ free from the past there are is too much ‘gravitational ‘ power among the rest which will drag them back into as you put it ‘the mire’ .
Her Britannic Majesty’s Government has devised the ‘perfect solution’ for these malcontents . Neither can they go forward or backward but must forever rock to and fro over the same contentious issues forever and ever amen . You could call it ‘politcal purgatory’ but without a release mechanism . I hate to say this but it’s good enough for them and about all they deserve -based on previous performance of course :(
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 09:41 PMEveryone is in favour of devolution in principle but a lot of people must surely be wondering whetherr the current stalemate is a warning against devolution of such important powers as policing and justice for the immediate future?
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 09:45 PMpoint me to one post of yours where you’ve critisised or shone the spotlight on the DUP for failing to reach agreement ( with their partners in Gov’t—that’s be SF for those who just don’t get it ) on P&J;or the Maze or ILA.
Posted by percy on Jul 23, 2008 @ 10:12 PMand please point us to where SF have made any move to reach a compromise on these issues
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 09:48 PMThis is getting beyond a joke. The DUP/ SF axis is clearly unfit to govern. They’ve got everything behind them- international goodwill, cash and massive mandates, but still they are messing it up and failing to deliver for the people of the north. There’s nothing like sectarian murders or snarling parties biting at their heels unlike the UUP and SDLP had to deal with ten years ago. The UUP and SDLP need to step up to the mark and provide viable alternatives for the electorate.
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 10:01 PMPete,
Where I would disagree with your analysis of the present situation is in the significance of the SF leadership’s deception of their voters, and indeed everyone else.
Yes, SF negotiated poorly and then deceived their faithful on the issue. That the DUP did not commit to the May deadline, however, does not thereby make it right that they should hold off until a time that suits them.
It means that the two parties now have to negotiate an agreement without carrots and sticks for the first time. You are right to point to the SF tactic of threatening collapse as unacceptable; you would do better to, in tandem, point to the DUP refusal to engage with the inevitable negotiations and work on their grassroots.
The electorate would then need to be convinced that the Assembly is capable of managing the department(s). Work to that end, then, should be ongoing currently.
Not a falsification then, but rather a suggestion that you adapt your paradigm.
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 10:01 PMShould any significance be read into the fact that Campbell accompanied Robinson rather than Dodds?
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 10:15 PMDamian, wouldn’t you agree with me that holding up Executive meetings on routine matters such as those Margaret Ritchie had to advance is not a way to garner support for devolution of policing and justice?
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 10:16 PM“Should any significance be read into the fact that Campbell accompanied Robinson rather than Dodds?”
Perhaps its something to do with the Maze and Irish Language Act?
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 10:18 PMIt might be a request for money which would facilitate the emergence of a win-win from all of this wrangling, e.g. on issues in Campbell’s Department.
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 10:19 PMDamian
“Yes, SF negotiated poorly and then deceived their faithful on the issue.”
Quite.
“That the DUP did not commit to the May deadline, however, does not thereby make it right that they should hold off until a time that suits them.”
Except that it’s exactly what they said they would do. Despite the claims of others.
“Not a falsification then”
Indeed.
As I said to percy
“No matter how much you might wish it to be otherwise, the current situation is that there was no commitment to reach agreement on those issues within a set time-frame [May 2008]. Despite what some have said..”
In those circumstances why should any party act to cover Sinn Féin’s blushes on this?
Btw, my paradigm is to try to accurately describe the actual situation. What political parties do afterwards is up to them.
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 10:21 PMPete - regarding what you say in point 24 I thought I should say that your attention to detail and your contributions to Slugger on this important issue have been very helpful to me in thinking about the present situation...and how the parties got here. Thanks.
Posted by on Jul 23, 2008 @ 10:27 PM
