Tuesday, April 04, 2006
Donaldson reportedly “shot dead” in Donegal
Ireland Online are reporting that the former Sinn Féin staff member, and long-term informant, Denis Donaldson “has been shot dead”, but have very few details other than that. But given his most recent, dishevelled, appearance in the media it would be impossible, at this point, to rule out the possibility that he took his own life. And where does this leave the assessment of the public interest in the Stormont spy-ring case? Update BBC are reporting that Taoiseach Bertie Ahern has described it as a brutal murder - RTÉ report here. While Secretary of State Peter Hain is quoted as “completely appalled by this barbaric act.”
Pete Baker @ 05:27 PM
BB: “Dread C this has nothing to do with my faith in anybody at all. You claimed in an earlier post that you’d applied rationality to the argument. All I am saying is this is not really a rational argument, to say a spy for twenty years was killed for his loot, by having his arm severed off, and tortured!!”
Its just as rational as saying PIRA did it without a shred of evidence in hand, BB. They have deuced little to gain by killing him at this point in time. For one, the cow is already out of the barn. For another, the timing of this is very bad for this to be any sort of sanctioned action from PIRA, being almost out from under.
As for the damage to the body, all you have is what a couple of politicians have said. There are any number of possibilities and all you are doing is a little bit of wishful thinking at this point.
As for the bank thing—hey, it was a example off the top of my head—and I don’t usually attribute brilliance to the home-invading set or to most of the criminal fraternity.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 07:39 PMDidn’t K Fulton develop the bombs there (SA) to kill people here and now they are being used in Iraq?
WHAT?
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 07:41 PMDread C I have heard of ripping your arm off to get a bit of money, but this is a bit much don’t you think?
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 07:42 PMWhat?
Don’t you keep up. KF went to US to buy infra red timers in NY, and developed the bombs that killed people in SA. Now the same type of bomb has been developed and used in Iraq to kill british soldiers.
The threads were on here Chris.
Keep up
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 07:44 PM“Has all the hallmarks of “Fredo’s” treatment by Michael Corleone in the Godfather”
I was actually thinking it would be more like the Freddie Five Fingers treatment...remember when Tom when and had a talk with him then he killed himself???Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 07:45 PMPeter Keeley is also a bit of a fantasist.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 07:45 PMNo wonder Gerry and Martin have disassociate themselves from the murder - we all know Denis was sacrificed to SAVE the Bigger MOLE !!!
j c
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 07:46 PMBB: “Dread C I have heard of ripping your arm off to get a bit of money, but this is a bit much don’t you think? “
Dunno… and neither do you. All we have are a collection of W.A.G.s circulating around in an echo-chamber.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 07:46 PMChris Gaskin
You really are touchy and defensive about south Armagh aren’t you.
Those honourable, soldierly types who beat to death an informer and gouged his eyes out with a crowbar in a Newry estate a few years back.
No, it couldn’t possibly be them now could it.Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 07:46 PMjc
who is the bigger mole?
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 07:53 PMYou really are touchy and defensive about south Armagh aren’t you.
No, I just don’t like it when rubbish is printed about the area I come from.
Those honourable, soldierly types who beat to death an informer and gouged his eyes out with a crowbar in a Newry estate a few years back.
It seems your imagination is interjecting again on this one.
I think you are referring to the killing of Eamon Collins but some of your, er “facts” are a bit up the left.
You claim that it was people from South Armagh that killed him, who?
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 08:01 PMWell Brenda - you can have choice A or B
Sure we all know - Gerry+Martin have sold the republican movement down the river. NI is still british - i think they’ve done a great job - and should be knighted - Sir Adams lol
j c
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 08:02 PMA man is dead, and his passing brutal. I think better to sit and see how this unfolds than speculate and join an unseemly rush to attribute blame.
Perhaps better to reflect how a life that starts with promise can come to this. All the grand aims, idealism and ambitions of youth long spent, and the human frailties that leads one to a lonely and tragic death.
Sad really like much of the last 30years.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 08:16 PMWhile a lot of the posts are entertaining (to a degree), it is clear that all of the people speculating either haven’t a clue or just simply grinding a few axes. The people who are definitively laying the blame are simply looking stupid.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 08:18 PM“… about the area I come from.”
So I was right then about it all being a little too close to home.
Has Slab been about recently?Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 08:21 PMjc
LOL;
Prime Time RTE is reporting about DD at around 9.30
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 08:24 PMPeople can, have and will continue to lay blame for this vicious murder wherever suits their politics. I am convinced that this is the act of republicans and given Adams@ statement it loks like that is his belief as well.
The only question is whether this murder was sanctioned or indeed instigated by the SF/IRA leadership. I’m getting fed up of the rogue ruepublicans being used as convenient scapegoats for crimes that it doesn’t suit SF/IRA to take credit/blame for. Whether it be the killing of Garda Gerry McCabe, The Colombia Three, the murder of Robert McCartney, the Northern Bank raid etc. it is clear that either the SF/IRA no longer has control over all its henchmen or that they have not turned their back on murder and criminality and are simply hiding behind these criminals.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 08:24 PMI doubt it was the IRA (who have risked too much by disarming just to blow it like this) or MI5. My money personally would be on dissident republicans. It’s an easy job and they get kudos for stiffing an informer; into the bargain it messes up the political process.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 08:29 PMI think J C is not far out in his post. Donaldson inadvertently found out who the senior informants within PSF/PIRA were, that made Donaldson a serious risk to the strategy that has taken so many years for them to develop. Hence, after being told to lie low for a few months by the same people, an XPD order was given.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 08:37 PMTHE IRA was suspiciously quick with its statement.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 09:05 PMThere are a number of things that are quite disturbing about this. Firstly, that Donaldson was living in a house without running water or electricity in a republican area of rural Donegal. If he feared republicans, it was hardly a hospitable place to be. If republicans feared him, it would hardly have been a worse place to kill him and then mount a cover-up. It seems to me, contrary to popular belief, that Adams and Co had a great deal of sympathy for Donaldson, and that they wished to protect him (after interrogating him). Mainstream Provos as culprits: highly unlikely.
Secondly, it is only a week ago that Donaldson talked to the media; openly, freely, without any discernible pressure. Now, if I were someone that put him into isolation, surely it would have been a precondition of his safety that he keep his mouth shut. This would seem to point the blame back at the RA, but then again, Denis was a smart guy, not given (to make a gross understatement) to blowing his cover. Moreover, what he said directly correlated with the SF line, and would seem to have bolstered their case. So why bump a gift horse off?
As regards dissidents, asides from some facile vengeance or pathetic propaganda coup, the motivation seems too little to merit the risk of life in prison (which, if you’re a dissident, is always a pressing concern). Why do the dirty work of your mortal enemies (whether that be the Brits, or the Provos) and, isn’t a Provo tout more useful alive as evidence of their apostasy?
Now, this leaves two plausible explanations for me. One, that this was the result of a personal vendetta. Many people had good reason to loathe the man (time spent in jail, relatives killed by SAS, hatred of a guy who enforced Brit strategy in SF). The weapon - a shotgun - is something that can be got by anybody, not a strictly military type of weapon. Also, his hand was hacked off, which, to a criminologist, seems the kind of visceral savagery that can only be born of a deeply personal, venemous grievance. This explanation would lead the finger to be pointed in many directions.
And this leads me to the other explanation. Who does it best serve to point the finger in many directions? Who does it best serve to portray this as the result of a personal grievance; the intense, bestly hatred of someone who knew and felt betrayed by this man? Why, those who would be capable of killing William Stobie, Brian Nelson, and other Brit informants turned dissidents; those who have most to lose if one of their operatives was to become unstable in his rural isolation and begin to spill his proverbial beans to the Sunday World. Now, who could that be…
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 09:08 PMHas anyone heard how he was found and by who?
Something that occurs is that he went off to live on his own in this remote place, apparently well away from everyone...and he was then seen alive earlier today (BBC report), so how was it the body was discovered so quickly? If it was the Gardai found him, why were they checking his cottage?
(I offer this without a preconceived answer - just wondered if there were any thoughts??)
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 09:16 PMShamo,
Brian Nelson wasn’t killed by anyone and the similarity in the death’s of Donaldson and Stobie is because they were both people who admitted informing on the actions of the paramilitary organisations they belonged to, and who were killed by informers, or on the orders of informers, who held higher rank than them.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 09:19 PMIntelligence Inside.
..........I think J C is not far out in his post.....
I would think the moon is far out, and i think your not far behind him.
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 09:21 PMHe was found by a neighbour lying dead near his remote cottage today at 5pm.
I don’t think it is right to speculate about who did this, but whoever it was they are one of the many people who oppose the peace process. They couldn’t have timed it better anyhow!
Posted by on Apr 04, 2006 @ 09:23 PM
