Wednesday, April 05, 2006
Donaldson: a simple execution
The London Independent’s Ireland correspondent is in no doubt, that this was a quinntessential killing of an informer in the time honoured, if ghastly, way.
There is no mystery about why he was killed, since the IRA makes no secret of its hatred and contempt for informers and agents in its ranks. Republican organisations have killed many over the centuries, including scores in recent decades. But the question is exactly who killed him and whether his assassination was sanctioned by the IRA leadership. The answer will determine the immediate political future of Northern Ireland.
The killing sent major tremors coursing through the Irish peace process, since if the IRA is judged to have been responsible this phase of the process will come to a halt. The IRA declared last night that it had “no involvement whatsoever” in the killing, an assertion which will now be thoroughly tested by police on both sides of the border.
He spoke to the Sunday World journalist who interviewed Donaldson a few weeks back:
The journalist Hugh Jordan, who found Donaldson in Donegal, said last night that he did not think the informer believed his life was in danger. He said: “He looked like a hunted animal. He was extremely depressed. The nerves in his eyes were trembling. He seemed like a man who didn’t think he would come to any harm. He did not see his life to be in any danger, but felt the only future he had was where he was, living in that dreadfully squalid situation.
Mick Fealty @ 12:39 AM
Brenda
I dont know one way or the other, but I dont think it could have been just for the money. Do you really think that?He himself said it was about having been compromised in the past, and from what I HAVE heard, that seems to be a line that could be credible
Posted by on Apr 08, 2006 @ 01:00 PMvery nice piece of diction about the scab m gibbs [god bless chicago]…
Posted by on Apr 08, 2006 @ 10:18 PMDD was not comprimised with 30 pieces of silver like judas or sean callaghan… there was something beyond money here...a guess and wild assumption maybe sexuality[who knows what tempts the worst amoeba known to to this dimension]...i bet the old fellas in the irb have turned in there graves @ what DD has done to a country...its people and its patrons like Sir Roger casement,michael collins and arthur griffith [may they RIP]...also such contempt shown by DD to his fellow republicans Martin mcguiness Gerry adams and Martin ferris...[know doubt if they would have known of his covert life it would of been ended earlier for sure]...not to mention Bobby sands who DD served time in the slammer with...well Bobby im sure you not been visited in heaven by that tout…
Posted by on Apr 08, 2006 @ 10:49 PMSHAY bolivia co
Such noble Christian sentiments ;-)
No Shay, seriously, I understand your anger. It was a creepy, godawful thing to do, betray all your mates like that, and for so long!!!
Could be someone really had him by the balls. Let’s hope it wasn’t simply greed.
However, something I’m not at all clear on. The “SF spy ring” that brought down the Assembly, was that ever clarified? Was it DD’s game or somebody else’s?
If it was DD then it could hardly have been a SF spy ring. And if that’s the case why shouldn’t the Assembly be up permanently?
Forgive me if all this has been gone into already but I didn’t keep abreast of developments on this.
Posted by on Apr 08, 2006 @ 11:53 PMNot sure if shay is trying to intimate some homosexuality into this debate… certainly thats not the line I have heard, try something younger?
Posted by on Apr 09, 2006 @ 01:22 AMbottom line is when you are comprimised you have been for a very strong reason[by an agency]...9 times out of ten its for sexual encounters or misdemeanours...ask any politician...if it wasnt money[which it wasnt]...was it to progress the dup’s agenda [never]...to further mi5’s position in the political forum...[as ever]...money,whitehalls agenda,british imperialism,...none of these was the factors for DD becoming a full on super GRASS...i just ask the humble question… what makes a high ranking official of any political party turn re located witness to the prosecution?…
Posted by on Apr 09, 2006 @ 02:22 AMSHAY bolivia co, do you you ever watch “The Sopranos”? If so, tell me, do informers within the mob turn informer out of ideology, or greed, or do they turn informer simply because they are told they, and perhaps others they care for, will spend the rest of their lives in jail if they do not?
I believe Denis Donaldson said he’d been a paid British agent since the late ‘80s. Ever talked to anybody that spent time in custody, been interrogated in that era? Oftentimes a brutal, harrowing experience, even if you’d done nothing illegal. And who knows what Donaldson was involved with in the ‘80s? God knows why Donaldson turned informant, but after he’d collaborated with the authorities once I imagine he was an easy target to press for continued cooperation. The only blackmail necessary in that era would be to threaten not to protect his identity as a tout.
One point Molonoy made hits on something I’d been wondering all week—why would Adams and McGuinness want to exterminate the one person in the most definitive position to clear SF’s name in Stormontgate?
I’ve no idea what Donaldson’s handlers expected when they warned him he was about to be outed as an informer. My guess—and it is only an guess—is that the LAST thing they expected would be that he would run to Adams and McGuinness and tell all. Why? Because the “conventional wisdom” of his handlers dictated that if he did so, he’d be dead before he hit the ground. Donaldson, on the other hand, calculated that full confession to Adams and McGuinness was his best chance of survival. What bargaining chips did Donaldson believe he had in that conversation? Just old ties of friendship, from politics and from prison— Or an offer to tell the public and the media that the authorites had arrested him for being a Republican spy in Stormont, and suspended the Assembly, when the authorities knew all along Donaldson was really a paid British agent?
I also can’t help wondering that if there had been a genuine Republican spy ring at Stormont, wouldn’t Donaldson, above all others, have been in position to prove it? If there was a spy ring and Donaldson could prove it, wouldn’t Special Branch and/or MI5 been more keen to protect his his life?
On the other hand, it does seem counterintuitive that C-IRA or RIRA would kill Donaldson. For years they’ve been insisting that SF were collaborators and sell-outs, and here was Donaldson, by his own admission and agreed to by all to be a paid British agent. To the remaining louts still susceptible to the argument that physical force republicanism is the way to political progress wouldn’t Donaldson’s confession be a walking, talking recruitment poster for RIRA or C-IRA?
On the other hand—and yes that’s three hands, and counting—Eamon Collins was butchered eight months after his testimony played a deciding role in the Sunday Times/Slab Murphy libel trail.
One more thing. I’ve seen all kinds of theories on why Donaldson was in his brother in law’s cottage in Donegal. Isn’t it possible that his brother in law’s cottage in Donegal was simply the only alternative Donaldson could afford? How many people can actually afford to take off indefinitely for points unknown? Donaldson had to go somewhere.
I’ve no idea if Donaldson’s handlers offered to take him into protective custody—did he ever say? If they did not, even when they knew he was about to be outed, doesn’t that seem unusual? He’d been in their employ for well over a decade.
Donegal is not out of the reach of PIRA, but it is outside the jurisdiction of Special Branch and Donaldson’s former British handlers. Who did Denis Donaldson fear most, and why?
Posted by on Apr 09, 2006 @ 04:25 AMDon’t all chime in at once lads, you’ll start a stampede.
Perhaps a better question might have been “who feared Denis Donaldson the most, and why?”
According to the link below in the Sunday Business Post Online, Sunday World journalist Hugh Jordan located Donaldson at his son-in-law’s cottage in Donegal with the assistance of ex-RUC man Colin Breen. The Post maintains Breen had and has close ties to Special Branch.
If that is true, it is certainly not proof that Donaldson’s former handlers wanted him dead. It is however, further evidence of a marked lack of interest in keeping Donaldson alive.
http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=NEWS-qqqs=news-qqqid=13313-qqqx=1.asp
Posted by on Apr 09, 2006 @ 04:55 PMwell susan its nearly a plausible thoery, about the sopranos..the one thing is tho ,the italians would of topped him @ the sniff of him being a tout… your analogy of the sopranos did make me think...[how the italians and irish are similar]...and a good point you have made and one that i have been proposing for days is that who really wanted DD away...pira not really , they had the chance to end his life...mi5 plausible...udf or other affiliated agencys...plausible again...the motion of thought now should move onto why did DD stay in donegal...and did he believe in his soul would his former commrades come after him or his british paymasters?...again he was given clemency and time to relocate...by all 4 sides the garda[who told him numerous times his life was in obvious threat]mi5...the pira...and the irish goverment all offered him to relocate and go...for this is where i get confused...why did such a person stay in such a traceable location...vulnerable to all he has betryaed...my closing thought is will sean callaghan meet such a demise as DD?.......
Posted by on Apr 09, 2006 @ 09:40 PMShay, definitely it would seem that Seán Callaghan’s publishers should err on the side of caution of they are planning a book publicity tour for him.
In the McCann piece Mick just blogged, McCann refers to Callaghan and the murder of a “prominent Kerry IRA man” in 1985. I’m pretty sure McCann means Corkman Sean Corcoran, murdered in a field in Kerry in 1985. If you scroll to the bottom of the link below, you’ll read Callaghan’s own admission of the competely conflicting reports he, Callaghan, has given over the years since Corcoran’s murder.
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/1998/05/07/ihead.htm
Relevant to these DD discussions? Perhaps not, but Callaghan’s conflicting versions of events do underline how unlikely it is we’ll ever know exactly who killed Denis Donaldson, or why.
Posted by on Apr 09, 2006 @ 10:07 PMShay, on second thought, I don’t know if Seán Callaghan is writing a new book—I was accidentally thinking of Kevin Fulton’s “Unsung Hero”, published within the last few weeks.
Posted by on Apr 09, 2006 @ 10:39 PMsusan...the proposed tour of sean callaghans new book signing did make me laugh...a rye sense of humour you have lol...his comment on radio 5 on the day of DDS demise is worth listening to...and before we get onto kevin fulton lets try and conclude why DD comprimised himself… WHAT WAS THE FACTOR THAT BROUGHT HIS DEMISE...as a paid informer...to his oppressers… remember when such an act like DDs demise happens...who contacts sean callaghan for his pedestal speech and comments for the bbc...[fruit for thought]… PS ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE...we are all arm chair thealogins...but the demise of dd goes beyond the borders of his former commrades[and i dont mean mi5]… i suppose the bottom line is ... when my father sought work in london in 1964… he sought refuge in hotels and bed sits...hence...when he approached the doorway,there would be a sign… NO BLACKS...NO IRISH...NO DOGS… my long winded point is DD has potrayed his people of his generation… not mine...not his forefathers...ie history will never forget his treachery...still the burning thought in my mind is what comprimised such a high up official...he wasnt a sticky or soldier he was a member of parliament[in the end]...and trusted to be honest in the 70s...the people of the famine with there grass juices running from there mouth [im sure]… would throw a few fucks @ DD for his treachery to his people...and his own family in Ireland...[how they have to live with such a dark cloud no fault of there own]...and about loughal...who informed?...callaghan...donaldson...or somebody else...certain subjects like these make us wonder… GOD will forgive DD...[but many will not]…
Posted by on Apr 10, 2006 @ 02:04 AMWell, SHAY, I must to bed, but you’ve mentioned Loughgall, and now Loughgall seems destined to be tomorrow’s hottest topic on Slugger.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2126914,00.html
Posted by on Apr 10, 2006 @ 04:11 AMWho killed Donaldson??
Can we really believe that the British Forces killed Donaldson, do we really care? Of course his family are going to blame outside forces. If they blamed the Sinn Fein/IRA then they might be killed next. Without a doubt the finger can be pointed directly at the provos. Which republican party expelled Donladson?? Which republican army has a history a killing British Informers. All the evidence shows this. Why would the British Forces want to kill him, it would simply be a waste of shotgun shells.
However, news just in, a remote cottage in Donegal has just came up on the market. Needs the installation of running water and electricity. Interested? give Marty or Gerry a ring. The previous owner gave his right hand for this property!!!!
Posted by on Apr 10, 2006 @ 09:32 AMYoung Unionist: “Can we really believe that the British Forces killed Donaldson, do we really care? Of course his family are going to blame outside forces.”
Then again, the Finucane family accuses outside forces—are they crazed as well?
Young Unionist: “If they blamed the Sinn Fein/IRA then they might be killed next. Without a doubt the finger can be pointed directly at the provos.”
On the basis of what evidence? Your inductive reasoning (a.k.a. W.A.G.) doesn’t count.
Young Unionist: “Which republican party expelled Donladson?? Which republican army has a history a killing British Informers. All the evidence shows this. Why would the British Forces want to kill him, it would simply be a waste of shotgun shells. “
Would it? To take the Finucane example, what was to be gained by his death by “British forces?”
Young Unionist: “However, news just in, a remote cottage in Donegal has just came up on the market. Needs the installation of running water and electricity. Interested? give Marty or Gerry a ring. The previous owner gave his right hand for this property!!!! “
Puerile. Simply puerile.
Posted by on Apr 10, 2006 @ 11:38 AMDenis Donaldson was a human being, not a punchline. I can’t imagine what his family’s going through.
Back to the investigation. A source identified only as a “senior officer” of the PSNI, interviewed by the Telegraph, went out of his way this afternoon to dispute the rather sensationalistic information on the Times Online article:
“The source suggested the motive behind the Donaldson shooting is likely to be “as simple as someone wanting revenge.”
He had no information either to support suggestions that a dissident republican gunman may have been hired by individuals within the mainstream IRA to carry out the shooting.
“They don’t get on for a start, and we haven’t seen any sign of the Continuity (IRA) doing anything of that ilk,” the source said.
He posed the question: “If you were in the Provos, would you rely on the Continuity to do anything for you?
“There would be a lot of risks and chances around that.”
Security forces on both sides of the border - working on detailed intelligence information from inside the organisations - have been able to disrupt many of the planned dissident attacks.
The source who spoke to the Belfast Telegraph suggested that Donaldson would have been more valuable to the dissidents alive.
The revelation that he was an agent was deeply embarrassing for the mainstream republican leadership.”
Here’s the link to the entire article:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=686429
Posted by on Apr 10, 2006 @ 05:07 PMIts the 8th anniveresary of the Good friday agreement...has anything changed?…
Posted by on Apr 10, 2006 @ 09:08 PMDread Cthulhu: Is Donaldson Finucane? Eh last time i checked i dont think so. U can use excuses to try a find a way to riddle out of the truth, are u sayin the IRA dont kill informers? are you sayin Donaldson wasnt expelled from Sinn Fein, cause if you are then wake up and smell the reality cause u need ure head fixed
Posted by on Apr 10, 2006 @ 09:19 PMPerhaps it was just boring old robbery??
Break-in at isolated cottage - meets with resistence, happens all the time, probaby gypos??
Twinkle
Posted by on Apr 10, 2006 @ 09:48 PMYoung Unionist: “Is Donaldson Finucane? Eh last time i checked i dont think so. U can use excuses to try a find a way to riddle out of the truth, are u sayin the IRA dont kill informers? are you sayin Donaldson wasnt expelled from Sinn Fein, cause if you are then wake up and smell the reality cause u need ure head fixed “
Ah, the ad homimen attack… charming.
What I am saying, Y.U., since you need it explained, is that the alleged force of “law and order” in Ulster have been known to do things that are A) counter-productive and B) not in their role as the alleged forces of law and order.
The fact of the matter is that we, the public, have little in the way of substantive fact to make any sort of responsible accusation or logical deduction. Now, while I admit you haven’t let such trifles get in your way, its hardly something to announcing with pride. Some of the grown-ups, “Young Unionist,” might want for a few more facts to come in before sounding the fool, like Big Ian did with the torture charge.
Posted by on Apr 10, 2006 @ 10:20 PMTwinkle, Glenties is—or was—best known for its five victories in the Tidy Towns competitions and the Magill Summer School. We are not talking the badlands here..
Posted by on Apr 10, 2006 @ 10:21 PM
