Wednesday, April 09, 2008
“do their best to maintain a sense of law and order in their own communities..”
On Channel 4 News tonight Carl Dinnen reported from here on how, ten years after the 1998 Agreement, “the paramilitaries are still operating in Northern Ireland and many are still holding onto their guns.” He starts with the murder of Paul Quinn, and talks to Assistant Chief Constable Peter Sheridan about that and other republican paramilitaries’ activity. But perhaps the most interesting point comes when he interviews Jackie McDonald - described in the report as the “UDA’s leading brigadier” - about policing and “the people’s guns”. You can watch the video here. [direct link] And here are the relevant quotes.
Carl Dinnen: “What is the point, what is the need for the UDA?”
Jackie McDonald: “Some people.. while the paramilitaries themselves would see that the war is over, the war is over with Sinn Féin, IRA. But there is dissident republicans there. There is the threat from criminal gangs who will exploit the situation, as it happens in Manchester, Liverpool, areas like that. We’ve seen it all in the mainland. That is all going to happen here within the next year or two. There’s going to be dead bodies in the streets here and it’s going to be over territory, it’s going to be over drugs and who owes money to who. And loyalist paramilitaries are going to be loyal to the people who supported them for years and do their best to maintain a sense of law and order in their own communities.”
Well he did want to talk to Hugh Orde about policing.. and he may have seen something similar elsewhere..
Pete Baker @ 07:51 PM
There is the threat from criminal gangs who will exploit the situation, as it happens in Manchester, Liverpool, areas like that.
Is he having a laugh? He’s the biggest godfather in Belfast.
Posted by on Apr 09, 2008 @ 08:51 PM“...ten years after the 1998 Agreement, “the paramilitaries are still operating in Northern Ireland and many are still holding onto their guns.”
I’m shocked - what next? Will we hear that some of the paramilitary leaders are in government whilst others are golfing companions of the President of the Irish Republic?
Channel 4 - yesterdays new today.
Posted by on Apr 09, 2008 @ 08:55 PM“Manchester, Liverpool, areas like that” all have drugs gangs and possibly guns, but the guns were not bought to shoot or threaten customers first off.
It may not matter very much what any one gang member says, the money and guns have their own dynamic. The danger for us is when they pretend this has anything to do with politics. We have had too much of the politics of the last five eejits with a pistol.
“do their best to maintain a sense of law and order in their own communities..” Yeah right.
Posted by on Apr 09, 2008 @ 09:15 PMDavid
It is yesterday’s news to us, but I really doubt if many GB readers are aware of this!
Wonder if Fox News are doing anything on this?
;oP
Posted by on Apr 09, 2008 @ 09:18 PMUnderstand all comments but Limerick in a real state - need subs for link but suspect murder rate right up there with Belfast.
Posted by on Apr 09, 2008 @ 10:05 PMGonzo,
If they did at least it would be fair and balanced ;-)
Posted by on Apr 09, 2008 @ 10:15 PMWe should only be bothered with crime here in Belfast, Manchester, Londonderry, Glasgow etc Dewi, why worry about Bogota, Limerick, Johannesburg or other foreign cities?
Posted by on Apr 09, 2008 @ 10:15 PMBrigadier or Brigandier?
Posted by on Apr 09, 2008 @ 11:07 PM“We should only be bothered with crime here in Belfast, Manchester, Londonderry, Glasgow etc Dewi, why worry about Bogota, Limerick, Johannesburg or other foreign cities? “
Majordolittle
I dunno much about it but drug wars don’t really respect boundaries - and Limerick a bit like Palermo the last few years - and it’s fairly close to you.
Posted by on Apr 09, 2008 @ 11:33 PMIt’s a long way from here to Tipperary.
It’s a long way from Bangor to Limerick, or Palermo.
There are no drugs problems in Northern Ireland as far as i know. The odd housewife with a valium or codeine addiction. Easily dealt with through Gp’s.
Some people drinking more Guinness than is healthy maybe. But nothing to get worried about. Noone is going to shoot people over it. Can’t see any drug problems in County Down. Too civilised.Posted by on Apr 09, 2008 @ 11:58 PMPop
Whats that sound?
Oh aye majordolittles head being extracted from his rectum as the slow realisation dawns on him that actually there is a drug problem here.
When you have 10, 11 and 12 year old able to describe and make their own bongs. I’d say that’s a problem.
It might not be affecting you in your part of civilised Co Down, but i’d hazard a guess that if you went to say....Downpatrick and had a bit of a dander around it wouldn’t take you too long to find out the reality.Posted by on Apr 10, 2008 @ 12:48 AMThere are no drugs problems in Northern Ireland as far as i know.
Let’s break that statement down a little and see if we can get to the bottom of it.
There are no drugs problems in Northern Ireland
Hmmm, whatever are we to make of such a comment?
as far as i know.
Ah, finally, I think I see where the probllem lies…
Posted by on Apr 10, 2008 @ 01:51 AMThis report is additional evidence of the failure of the ‘peace process’. Where is the peace when paramilitaries rule, murder, intimidate? Ten years on and all there is to show are areas controlled by organized gangs and a make-believe local Assembly, a failed experiment. Many around the world hoped for a better result than a young man beaten to death, no one charged and a possible ‘official’ fudge in the near future. You had your chance and you blew it.
Posted by on Apr 10, 2008 @ 05:18 AMThere is a very real drug problem in this country and living in pulling a Comical Ali in the form of “there are no druggies here” won’t fix that. Go to any of dozens of night clubs in Belfast City Centre and you will be offered drugs. In some cases rather forcefully
I wonder how Jackie McDonald was able to keep a straight face while claiming that his illegal and unacceptable organisation was protecting communities from drug dealers. Does he forget Tigers Bay so quickly? I said it before and I’ll say it again every country has it’s gangsters, it’s criminals, it’s scum. The problem is the ones in this place try and excuse themselves by saying they’re doing it for Ulster or Ireland.
Posted by on Apr 10, 2008 @ 08:01 AMI drive through Downpatrick quite often, on my way to the Mournes. It looks a crap town to live in, but nothing particularly sinister. What drugs are we talking about? I see no evidence of any drug problems anywhere I go. It’s a myth.
Posted by on Apr 10, 2008 @ 08:04 AM>>And loyalist paramilitaries are going to be loyal to the people who supported them for years and do their best to maintain a sense of law and order in their own communities<<
The shocking hypocrisy of this statement astounds me. I seriously hope they intend to do some good for a change, snub out the drug dealers within their own ranks who prey on the loyal peoples children. And resist the best efforts and bloody talk from certain Unionists, and wannabee Yank rabble-rousers to madden them once again to pursue the blood of their neighbours. They seem content on the latter, but I fear will fight said upcoming gang-war to protect their turf, but not for the best of reasons. I hope I’m wrong.
Posted by on Apr 10, 2008 @ 08:20 AMYou’re not wrong Eoghan. I recall vividly the UDA/UVF fued of several years ago mostly based on the Shankill but it did spread in to other parts such as Hollywood and inner East Belfast. What part of the loyalist community did that protect? I recall a lot of damage and bloody mayhem, not so much with the protection.
Posted by on Apr 10, 2008 @ 08:37 AMJackies claims that the guns that “ “They’re not the UDA’s guns. They’re the peoples guns” with a further statement stating;
“There’s going to be dead bodies in the streets here and it’s going to be over territory, it’s going to be over drugs and who owes money to who. And loyalist paramilitaries are going to be loyal to the people who supported them for years and do their best to maintain a sense of law and order in their own communities”.
This sounds like a perfect get out clause presented by the UDA for the DUP in the policing debate in relation to devolved policing and justice.
Having worn out the mantra about possible IRA violence in the knowledge that the IRA has decommissioned.
The DUP may argue that as long as there are armed paramilitaries making thinly veiled threats in relation to the possble use of fire arms then policing and justice should remain with the Brit Govt.Posted by on Apr 10, 2008 @ 08:43 AMMajordolittle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
Everyone else:
DNFTT
Posted by on Apr 10, 2008 @ 09:31 AM“I hope I’m wrong.”
Sadly, you’re probably right, Eoghan. Those with their finger on the local pulse will know that the loyalist and republican paramilitary godfathers rule the roost in many local communities. They’re a key part of the ‘peace process’ and you’ll find them at the heart of projects linked to, for example, the allocation of lottery funds.
Posted by on Apr 10, 2008 @ 10:03 AMNevin
They may well be involved at the heart of projects but my experience of this is that the funds go to the people needed to bring the projects to fruition ie the artists and facilitators.
There is a misconception that the money is going in to the pockets of the paramilitaries.
This simply not the case.
Yes there will some of these fellas involved in the decision making, what murals are to be replaced and with what but the money isn’t going into their pockets.Posted by on Apr 10, 2008 @ 11:05 AMThe sad thing is that the PSNI could probably have a pretty good crack at locking up half these scumbags, but for the fact that they would run up against some sort of political immunity.
Posted by on Apr 10, 2008 @ 11:14 AMMoochin, a business acquaintance of mine was invited to apply for lottery funding but he wouldn’t touch it because the funding was being administered by people he considered to be part of a paramilitary organisation.
Posted by on Apr 10, 2008 @ 12:05 PMChris, I’ve previously explained how the police couldn’t ruffle paramilitary feathers without (British and Irish) political clearance; they could observe wrongdoing but intervention required permission.
Posted by on Apr 10, 2008 @ 12:09 PMNevin,
Fair enough i was basing my comment on a recent re-imaging project that i was involved with. I can’t see how such money would,could and should go to anyone other than the people involved with the production of work.
If your business acquaintance was looking to make some money you can assure him that budgets are such that it would be nigh on impossible for the paramilitaries to get their hands on it.
Would you care to comment further as to how these individuals would access the money?
The budget crisis that the Arts here is facing because of the Olympic money grab and continual underfunding is such that those involved in the sector would not hesitate to highlight the misappropriation of funding.(PS i don’t work for the lottery)
Posted by on Apr 10, 2008 @ 12:16 PM
