Sunday, March 09, 2008
Did Hillary over state her role in the peace process?
Toby Harden flagged up what looks like it could shape up into a major faux pas by Hillary Clinton as she tries to claw herself back into the political game. The trouble for Mrs Clinton is that Harden now the Telegraph’s US correspondent spent a long time in Northern Ireland, and places the ‘town hall’ meeting with women from the Ormeau Road in the Lamp Lighter cafe on the Ormeau Road. And it’s been picked up by one of the big blogs of Democrat politics in the US, the Daily Kos It’s part of the former First Lady’s self proclaimed role as having “helped to bring peace” to Northern Ireland. Brian Feeney says she was ancillary, the ‘lead U.S. negotiator’ described her input as “helpful”. The PoliGazette notes, it is the exaggeration makes her vulnerable. If you have any recollections of Mrs Clinton’s input, let us have them (keep it legal).
Mick Fealty @ 07:15 PM
This puts her in the proper place.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 08:13 PMOops....
This this.Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 08:20 PMHillary never claimed the was a major player in the NI talks. She said ”I helped to bring peace to Northern Ireland“. As Brian Feeney said “she was ancillary” and Lord Trimble acknowledges that “[he] does not know there was much she did...”. Lord Trimble does not know everything Hillary did. Good of him to say so.
So Mick I don’t think it is a major faux pas
However minor her role (which I understand included attending/arranging women’s group meetings ) it is still more NI experience than Obama’s.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 08:52 PMHubbie’s bagman George was the operator, not Shrillary!
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 08:58 PMActually Merrie,
Its O’Bama :)
She’s padding out her resume a little bit, which wouldn’t be a big deal but she’s the one who wanted to go negative so she can take any lumps. All she was in the North the first lady same as Laura Bush is. If you can’t blame Laura for the war in Iraq then Hilery doesn’t get credit for Bill’s foreign policy successes (depending on your view of the GFA of course).Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 09:07 PMWhat is the story here, please? How is this, whatever “this” is, expected to play among US voters?
Are US “Irish” voters expected to reject Rodham- Clinton because a sometime hack in a notoriously anti-Irish London newspaper attempts to belittle her presence as the wife of the then US president during his visit to Ireland?
How will this play in Alabama? Will the Telegraph assure their numerous readers there that Obama’s credentials are assuredly Danny Bhoy and will they then be ever more impressed?
Can it be that the Telegraph has begun to believe that the US electorate are as dumb as the last incumbent to the presidency that they allowed to assume office for the sake of domestic peace?
I do not have the answers to these questions but I am sure that there might be someone from Boston who knows all.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 09:10 PMRory,
I’m sure the Telegraph treats us Irish in
Alabama (Mobile BTW) with as much comtempt as they treat you.Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 09:17 PMRory:
I like the way Harndon headlined his article: “Nobel winner...”. Yes, gives a good spin and authority to Trimble and that’s accurate but perhaps not as apposite as:
“Former UUP leader who lost his seat and those of all but one of his party… due to his seriously idiotic handling of the NI peace process”. Trimble was nowhere near a “wee bit silly”.
I have been reading Harndon’s reports regularly over the past few weeks and he is an Obama man. He likes the happy company on Barack’s bandwagon and says it is a sign Obama will win, cf Hillary’s alleged in-fighting band.
I am surprised that Harndon as a seasoned reporter can say that because in my experience and those of others there is always a lot of in-fights within campaigns amongst the minions whether they are in a winning team or not. The very enjoyable book “Primary Colors” has a pretty good description of this.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 09:50 PMI would say the Clintons input into the “peace prosess” was fairly extensive and influential, so why shouldn’t Hilary use that to help her quest, no problem here, good luck to her or whosoever takes over from Bush as he has had little to no influence on the ver same process.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 10:00 PMThe Democratic electorate reads the Kos....Read it a bit yourself and make your own decision on what a sad situation we have in politics these days. Most of the US doesn’t give a second thought to anything involving white Europeans, so the Telegraph speaks to very few adults in the US. These libs are horrible little children and the race baiters are propping Obama up for a victory, or else. If Hillary wins the nomination, after the riots quiet down (in the anti-2nd Amendment states), it won’t matter if McCain wins or Hillary prevails, it’s gonna be bad for the US. But not nearly as bad as it would be if BO is elevated. I’m standing on the sidelines, making sure all my assets are in the BOI.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 10:15 PMBut not nearly as bad as it would be if BO is elevated. I’m standing on the sidelines, making sure all my assets are in the BOI.
Fill us in here, Bob. What’s the BO and what’s the BOI ?
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 10:26 PMBarack Obama? Bank of Ireland?
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 11:11 PMMick,
It seems even you cannot resist putting the boot into Mrs Clinton, when Obama was well behind Clinton, would you have wrote he was trying to claw himself back into the political game. I doubt it?
Yet now the two are pretty even and both candidates have all to play for you and the rest of the media pack can not resist a swift kick in Hilly’s balls in the hope of kick starting Obama’s momentum.
Still I suppose it saves the media from doing the job and asking Obama just what he intends changing. Or could it be that the right believes McCann will have a chance of beating Obama, but will have a far harder fight with Clinton.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 11:24 PMI have many souveniers/photos of ‘women’s events’of which Hilary Clinton was the catalyst (and main speaker). I also stood on the Ormeau Rd to watch her when she visited Joyce McCartan in the Limelighter. I remember thinking how stereotypical the staged photo in the Belfast Telegraph of Mrs Clinton holding up a pot of tea to symblolise her engagement with Joyce and the women of NI. I think her role was to bolster the confidence of women in a context where there was little room for them at the decision-making table and it is impossible to quantify how she helped our spirits in such a frustrating situation.Trimble’s lack of understanding concerning women and equality,given his leading role in his own party and the whole country,was part of the problem - it is not at all surprising therefore that he underestimates the role that the first Lady played.
Despite acknowledging and being grateful to Hilary Clinton,in my heart I want Obama to win the presidency!
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 11:29 PMThank you Granni Trixie. These events you mention must have been overlooked by Harndon when he was reporting from NI.
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 11:33 PM“...she visited Joyce McCartan in the Limelighter”.
She was on Ormeau Avenue as well - which band was she watching?!
Posted by on Mar 09, 2008 @ 11:34 PMHillary’s Joyce McCartan Memorial Lecture
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 12:44 AMShe came here and listened to people as did her husband for ALL his faults. They gave so much time to the North and the sarky bitterness is just anti Clinton rhetoric. NO her input was NOT overstated. I hope she gets the Democratic nomination because if Barak wins it will unite the racists and condemn the States to 4 more years of right wing rule AND the world to even more misery. She is the ONLY Democratic candidate capable of winning, that’s terrible to say and NOT a slur on Obama but a fact of life. Sinister elements in the U.S. will simply NOT tolerate a black President and you would honestly fear for Barak Obama if he won the nomination. Many respected commenatators in the States and Britain have already said this.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 12:51 AMBarack Obama? Bank of Ireland?
Correctomundo.
Obama has no CV for the job of POTUS. This assassination bullsh**, race baiting crap is all he has. Along with the empty headed, starry eyed, gloms he has following him around until they faint. His skin color has nothing to do with his experience, of which he has none. He was elected only because of a divorce sex scandal his opponent was going through. Hillary is a control freak , power hungry, ‘don’t do as I do, do as I say’ crackpot. Not that bright, and attached to her weirdo husband. Those who follow the whole ‘I am woman’ crap are the same bunch who fight for abortions for minors without parental consent, under the guise of ‘choice’. Truly a despicable lot.Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 01:31 AMContrary to the pro-Obama spins, Hillary does have some valid claim to experience in international relations.
This report from the BBC gives more detail of some of Hillary’s involvement in NI: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/17711.stm
The last paragraph reports on her visit to Dublin and her participation in a closed seminar at Chequers when a guest of the British PM and his wife:
“ Before her arrival in Belfast, Mrs Clinton visited Dublin where she was guest of honour at a government dinner hosted by the Prime Minister, Bertie Ahern. At the end of the trip Mrs Clinton will fly to London, where she will join Tony Blair and his wife, Cherie, at the Prime Minister’s rural Buckinghamshire retreat at Chequers. There she will participate in a closed seminar on shared policy perspectives and common challenges on both sides of the Atlantic.“
Bill was not with his wife on this trip.
I have just noticed a headline in a US paper equating Mrs Obama with Jacqueline Kennedy. Oh my. The Obama spin is really in overdrive. Michelle is OK, she is fine as Michelle. Jackie is a different person altogether, but the young people supporting Barack will not know that as many were born after J died and none would have known her as First Lady.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 01:51 AMThanks Nevin for links to the Joyce McCartan lecture which will go in my arcive.Let me reiterate however that although I do see that Hilary Clinton played an inestimable part in helping NI through a crucial time,I find the manipulation of stereotypical images of ‘women across the divide’ ‘chatting’ having ‘tea around a table’ corney and irritating.
In one way jaw,jaw has been womens preferred option in NI. But what about the Mairead Farrells of this world? What about those of us who wanted to break through the glass ceiling within political parties? And, given the week that is in it, I was insulted that SF used Mairead Farrell to represent the best of women for international womens day. Why not simply say that for Republican women alone she is an ideal? Or appeal to humanity because she was shot in cold blood and her family deserve sympathy?
I hope I do not digress too much but I am trying to follow a logical thread...that women in Ni have differences and cannot be characterised by the teapot or their “courage” in planting bombs.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 02:38 AMlatcheeco: “I’m sure the Telegraph treats us Irish in Alabama (Mobile BTW) with as much comtempt as they treat you. “
Deepest condolences… spent a week one there one Saturday, groomsman in an August wedding.
Mick Hall: “Still I suppose it saves the media from doing the job and asking Obama just what he intends changing. Or could it be that the right believes McCann will have a chance of beating Obama, but will have a far harder fight with Clinton. “
Conventional wisdom runs counter to this—Hillary has higher negatives and McCain polls consistantly higher than Hillary, but is only competitive with Obama.
Of course, this is the now, when Obama is getting frustrated at having been asked more than eight questions at a time and not really been mussed yet… time will tell.
Lurig: “I hope she gets the Democratic nomination because if Barak wins it will unite the racists and condemn the States to 4 more years of right wing rule AND the world to even more misery. She is the ONLY Democratic candidate capable of winning, that’s terrible to say and NOT a slur on Obama but a fact of life. Sinister elements in the U.S. will simply NOT tolerate a black President and you would honestly fear for Barak Obama if he won the nomination. Many respected commenatators in the States and Britain have already said this. “
Obama is a light-weight, politically—arguably, he’s the anti-Gore—he give good speech, but has no real accomplishments, either in Illinois or in the US Senate. All he has done is talk a good game, thus far, and win states that he like as not wouldn’t win in a general election. Illinois politics are arguably one of the last bastions of old-school machine politics, where the Daley boys still use Nixon ballots for scratch-paper.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 03:22 AMI noticed this over the weekend, and since the topics been brought up I’ll throw my question to the masses. Can anybody identify this mysterious Mr McDevitt cited in the original Telegraph report? He seems to be on the Trimble side of play, but there’s no explanation of his role…
“Once a peace deal was in place, Mrs Clinton supported women politicians and was always available if they visited Washington “to give them a pat on the back, give them moral support”, he added.
“So in a classic woman politicky sort of way I think she was active."”
Hmmmm, a classic woman politicky sort of way; if I was him I’d spend the rest of my days praying I never found myself alone in a room with Mrs C.
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 11:00 AMConall McDevitt is described as a negotiator and Hume aide
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 12:10 PMDread
I give little credence to polls these days and I do not feel it will be to far in the future when a massive scandal breaks out about how these polling companies are easily manipulated.
I was hoping for some input about the lack of the media attention on exactly what Obama intends to change.
It is not healthcare, nor Iraq, which are the two big issues in this election and it is certainly not the way the economy is run, so in fact it will be no change at all, agreed? For if he had claimed he wished to make real changes of a progressive type the US media would have crucified him by now.
By the way the reason I believe McCain may beat Obama and not Clinton is because the mass of the US working classes will not vote for Obama due to his closeness to capital and his refusal to bring in a health care program free at point of need.
Obama is a carbon copy of Tony Blair, little history thus no baggage, hungry for power and adulation, thick, vain and easily manipulated but crafty as hell, he admires those with great wealth and believes all things spring from them, thus when push comes to shove he will never go against the power elite. Ah he is also a religious nut who within a week of being in the White House will believe God speaks to him personally, although he will not have the balls to tell anyone, until he leaves office, when he will claim he is to become a trapist monk, in between working for multi national companies and solving the Iraq problem that has bankrupted the US economy.
By the way I am beginning to wonder whether there might be a neo-con school for these types, Blair in the UK, Obama in the US, Sarkozy in French and Putin’s man in Russia. They all seem to rise to prominence totally unnoticed, leaving no trace and the next minute they have the top job, although I suppose this tells us more about us stupid fucks who vote for them. Is it any wonder the wold is in such a mess when we have the most dim witted electorate every, Jackie Kennedy my arse ;)
Posted by on Mar 10, 2008 @ 01:15 PM
