Saturday, August 18, 2007
Crossing the divide to learn about ‘themmums’ marches…
THE past few days have seen members of one ‘side’ getting up close and personal with the other ‘side’s’ parading culture. Loyalist victims’ campaigner Willie Frazer attended last weekend’s republican hunger strike commemoration (which he was less than impressed with), while UDA leaders Jackie McDonald and Colin Halliday observed a parade by the Ancient Order of Hibernians in Kilkeel (see pic). Also crossing the divide, a number of ex-IRA prisoners paid a visit to the Apprentice Boys’ museum in Londonderry. The DUP’s Gregory Campbell, perhaps unfairly, hedges his bets on the value of the visit until he sees any outcome. Campbell doesn’t see the point of risk-taking, as it could (in his eyes) backfire. However, the risks taken by the Boys have also reaped dividends in recent years.
Belfast Gonzo @ 12:30 PM
Is that the new Northern Ireland Tracksuit that Jackie’s wearing?
What a role model for young fans.
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 12:43 PMI think it is a NI trackie. Beats the shell suit though.
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 12:55 PMForget Paris, forget Milan. Kilkeel is the new style capital of the world.
Good to see these “hands across the divide” gestures. Only good can come of them ... I think.
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 01:01 PMWord was buzzing round Kilkeel all day that Jackie was up along with his Dromore and Banbridge friends. It was some sight for the locals as they apparently wandered round the place chatting to everyone. Strange times indeed.
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 01:03 PM“which he was less than impressed with”
*shakes head* And he’s a journalist?
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 01:37 PMAre tracksuits & shell suits not one & the same?
So what if he’s wearing a Norn Iron tracksuit Martian, whats that got to do with anything?
Wee Marty in his fly fishing gear? What an example to impressionable young Pike, Big Gerry in Donegal Tweed, what an example to Sheep.
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 01:54 PMslug, it’s an informal Blog; not the Times Literary Supplement.
“And when I hear republicans saying they want to talk about the future nature of ‘an agreed Ireland’, I am even less convinced of their motives.” - Gregory Campbell
The Shinners aren’t negotiators on behalf of the Irish government, nor do they have a mandate from the southern electorate that would entitle them to any input into the process other than Dial debates, so I don’t know why Mr Campbell would bother entertaining their delusions in that regard. Apart from that, unity isn’t even on the Irish political agenda - and won’t be for the foreseeable future.
In terms of NI, it can’t do any harm for the hardliners to think outside of their boxes. (Apology to slug for the use of idiom).
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 02:10 PMIs that the new Northern Ireland Tracksuit that Jackie’s wearing?
Is that why uff flags were put alongside our wee country flags during the 12th ?
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 02:11 PMDub,
One of the problems in NI is some of the hardliners spend far too log “out of their boxes” if you get the vernacular!!!
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 02:13 PMNationalists don’t have parades like unionists do, though that doesn’t stop unionists from pretending this is a quid pro quo situation. The same as the Irish language - being spoken for almost 2500 years with an enormously rich literature and judicial code associated with it - is in no way comparable to Ulster-Scots; doesn’t stop unionists from pretending the two are co-equal and hence related in a quid pro quo sort of way.
Unionists are straining at a pretence of cultural equivalence that simply doesn’t exist and are doing so for political not cultural reasons and to justify their idea that n. ireland is a self-contained state with a majority community and a minority community, instead of what it really is; a corral enclosing a bunch of colonial supremacists and a considerable number of the natives, the culture of the latter spreading across the whole island and into the far reaches of time in tandem with the rest of their people from whom they have been cut off.
Who - really - is convinced by this pretence?
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 02:14 PMOh bejasus Harry, yer boiler is most definetly busted so it is.
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 02:22 PMMe=Colonial supremacist.
Harry=Cultural imperialist.
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 02:23 PMHarry,
“… the culture of the latter spreading across the whole island and into the far reaches of time in tandem with the rest of their people...”
How every lyrical!
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 02:32 PMslow progress !!
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 02:37 PMHarry,
“bunch of colonial supremacists “
Thankyou for that insight. I had not realised I was a colonial supremacist. I presume this is a bad thing. My apologies for being one.
Now after many years I can understand why the IRA had to murder so many memebers of my community.
Since the IRA have stopped and I have only now come to the realisation of my wickedness (thanks to your valuable contribution) what I am to do? How can I cleanse my self (and my family) of this awful condition and indeed where my I go to stop being such an awful colonial supremacist? Please help me, you have enlightened me to my evil but shown me no hope of remedying my awfullness. Am I condemned to spend my whole life in this awful state?
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 02:54 PMI don’t know why you’re talking abut the IRA, I never mentioned the IRA. As for the rest of it, I would have thought I was pointing out the simple truth, something so transparently obvious as to be beyond argument. What - specifically - do you find incorrect about what I stated?
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 03:02 PM“Crossing the divide to learn about ‘themmums’ marches…”
To me this would read better if it was rendered:
“Crossing the divide to learn about ‘themmunsziz’ marches…”
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 04:22 PMWell Harry it all comes down to the fact that they do not recognize that their community has ever done anything wrong and adding to that they also believe their community is not responsible for the paramilitary killers they spawned.
I would add something specific about unionists but as I am already on the line its best to walk carefully but suffice it to say they believe themself part of the elite prods that divorce themselves from any and all violence that has occured because of course the big houses work as good insulators
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 04:39 PMMcNulty
You are quite correct. Apologies for the poor grammar!
I’m still learning this Belfast lingo. For example, it wasn’t until recently that I discovered that ‘Don’t’ actually has two syllables - Don’tn’t - and that ‘fillum’ only has one.
One day this country boy will ‘get’ it…
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 04:45 PMHarry,
I mentioned the IRA as your “clonial supremicist” argument is at least as simplistic as anything ever used by the IRA during the troubles. Now they have a more subtle analysis as part of the rewriting history / quarter truth process.
In addition it was just this sort of analysis used by the likes of Noraid to justify their support of terrorism. Calling people “colonial supremicists” and acusing them or corraling people are the sort of terms which allow some to justify violence and murder against the “colonial supremicists”.
Might I ask if you are from Northern Ireland or have you merely viewed my and my fellow unionists colonial supremecy from afar?
But I am forgetting myself, I have had a Damascus road type convertion to realising the sheer evil of my colonial supremecy. What do you propose I and people like me do now in order to redress this ancient wrong which we have perpetrated against the nationalist people of Ireland? Is there any hope for me / us?
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 05:18 PMNothing to do with this thread at all, but I was wondering why no-one has mentioned the SDLP former mayor of larne calling a DUP disabled councilor ‘stumpy’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6949453.stmI’m sure if the insult was directed by the DUP, there would be a thread with 200 odd replies on it. Are the SDLP a no-go topic on slugger?
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 06:32 PMturgon
the jews of the OT would rent their garments, as a means of self-chastisement and ritual purification.
You tell us?Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 06:35 PM“What do you propose I and people like me do now in order to redress this ancient wrong which we have perpetrated against the nationalist people of Ireland? Is there any hope for me / us?”
TurgonWell, for a start you could support the passing of legislation to bring about rights for Irish speakers and the Irish language throughout n. ireland.
Secondly you could address the fact that the old stormont regime was based on sectarianism and that it was this in large part that gave rise to the troubles.
Thirdly you could address the fact that unionists are, strictly speaking, not just a minority within Ireland but would have been a minority in n. ireland itself already had they not instituted an economic regime that forced large numbers of nationalists to leave in order to find economic opportunities. In other words you could address the fact that the unionist ‘majority’ (and hence veto) is based upon an injustice which to this very day is being used by unionists to justify their position, a position that is considerably less substantial than unionists would have us believe.
Fourthly you could address the fact that, in light of the foregoing, the fundamental nature of unionism is to maintain a link with britain through the threat of violence and through conspiring with british strategic interests to become armed precisly in order to threaten this violence.
Fifthly you could admit, in light of the foregoing, that the true place for unionists in Ireland is as a national minority within a united ireland and that they should take their place within such a polity without further ado.
Finally you could discuss, in light of the foregoing and in light of unionists’ refusal nonetheless to take their rightful place as a national minority, how such a refusal and reliance on arms in the last instance to maintain their position constitutes what any objective observer would call ‘supremacy’.
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 06:43 PMCool down all - Wales won a Rugby game - does not happen often - celebrate with your celtic cousins....
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 06:45 PMTurgon:
“Now after many years I can understand why the IRA had to murder so many memebers of my community.”
Now, you might explain to us just why your communtiy was responsible for the murder of twice as many members of the other communtuy. You seem to forget that the real terrorists in NI were HMG and the unionist paramilitaries they supported and which unionists approved by their deafening silence.
The unionist paramilitaries killed 873 civilians and the security forces another 190 for a total of 1.063 civilians whose blood is on the hands of YOUR community. The republican paramiliataries, all combined, killed some 738 civilians. Of Which the Provisional IRA killed 517.
So, if anyone has any complaints about the murders in NI during the Troubles, you really should listen to the complaints of the nationalist/Irish/Catholic community instead of ignoring them with outlandish propaganda.
I suggest that you clean out your own house instead of complaining about others’ houses.
Posted by on Aug 18, 2007 @ 06:49 PM
