Sunday, May 11, 2008
Cross-bench support
In an unprecendented move, a joint letter has been sent to all MP’s from the party leaders of the four largest NI parties opposing the Lib Dems proposal to extend abortion to Northern Ireland.
Fair Deal @ 12:21 PM
What a suprise. The one thing they all agree on, and they’re utterly and completely wrong. And naturally - since not one of them is proposing, a la Harry Whelehan, to prevent anyone from NI going to GB for an abortion - entirely dishonestly so too. As neat an encapsulation of how corrupted our tight little political class is as one might fear to find.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 01:08 PM“..and that the issue of abortion is a matter that should be left to the assembly itself.”
And there was I in my naivety thinking that this was a matter which should be left to each individual woman herself. The logical extension of the thought process that insists that all potential for the creation of human life be protected would be that male masturbation be outlawed. It is apparent however that the practice is alive and thriving among our public representatives.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 02:09 PM“as british as finchly”
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 02:17 PMGood! Oppose it and oppose it vigorously. Keep it out.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 02:26 PMIt’s unusual, as all the other UK political parties have no fixed policy on the issue. The SDLP I can understand due to their Catholic ethos, but Sinn Fein ?
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 02:27 PMYet another reason why Policing and Justice should be devolved.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 02:32 PMComrade do you have to be a catholic to protect the unborn?
IMV it’s the DUP, with their church going side who will help to keep this out, and more power to their elblow. But then again I don’t care who keeps it out as long as it is kept out.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 02:34 PMDebbie, what about the thousands of mainly young girls who make the journey to England to get an abortion, our politicians are burying their heads in the sand!
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 03:05 PMAshamed of my country and (thanks Debbie) ashamed of my gender. But not at all surprised.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 03:11 PMFYI, there *is* going to be a pro-choice response to this. If anyone is interested in being involved, please email
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 03:13 PMComrade do you have to be a catholic to protect the unborn?
Characterizing the debate as “protecting the unborn” is highly dishonest.
To answer your question : nope. But the SDLP won’t do anything they think offends their core Catholic vote.
IMV it’s the DUP, with their church going side who will help to keep this out,
It’s right-wing religion in general which is involved here.
and more power to their elblow.
Since I’m a democrat, I’m opposed to political change being effected because of the rantings of someone’s imaginary friend in the sky.
But then again I don’t care who keeps it out as long as it is kept out.
Bad idea. By all means argue your case, but democracy gets damaged when religions or religious interests are used to force through political change in this way.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 03:18 PMIs abortion not a devolved issue? If this law can be introduced at Westminster and the Assembly bypassed doesn’t it blow the DUP lie that they had to go for devolution in order to prevent all those awful laws on the mainland being introduced here? I remember abortion being specifically mentioned by Poots - in order to keep what Debbie describes as the church going wing happy.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 03:22 PMJoanne, well, there are plenty of women who are pro-choice and plenty who are pro-life, same with men. My principle concern is to do with this being railroaded through because of the shadowy influence of a bunch of unelected churchmen. In addition is the point made by others here, that it’s all pointless since you can still get on a boat and get an abortion, and in fact I believe there are organizations here which can facilitate this.
The real way to put a stop to abortion is to reduce the incidence of unwanted pregnancy. This requires proper investment in sex education and family planning clinics, etc. But the churches, of whom Debbie is saying “more power to their elbow”, won’t get behind this for their usual “morality” reasons and in the case of the Catholic Church they will actively oppose it.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 03:23 PMjoanne,
I emphasise assume because the pro-lifers have done an astoundingly good job of attempting to convince the entire population that there is zero support for abortion in Northern Ireland. (quote from your blog).
I don’t support abortion and I’m pro life, that doesn’t mean to say that I would willingly decide what others should do in an undemocratic way. Do I want abortion kept out, sure I do, absolutely. Am I against forced abortions as you mention - sure I am. But I firmly believe there is no support for abortion here - and in that I believe the leaders of the four main parties here agree with me. I would willing, as any democrat, to abide by the rule of law. If pro-choice people believe there is support for it, then campaign to have it put before the electorate.
Lets see what they say.
thanks Debbie)
You’re welcome. Nice blog btw.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 03:23 PMThe message the letter conveys is: ignore the evidence:
Furthermore:About 40,000 women have travelled from Northern Ireland in the last 20 years for an abortion in Britain.
The Family Planning Association says since 1967 five women are known to have died from ‘backstreet’ abortions in Northern Ireland.
Nor is abortion illegal in Northern Ireland:
[Between 1999 and mid-2001 alone,] over 70 abortions [were] performed in Northern Ireland.
Perhaps wisely, anticipating the illiberal twitchings of Donaldson & Co., the Judges have decided to keep the subject below the radar:
Mr Justice Brian Kerr said he believed the law as it stood was clear, but he invited the Department of Health to consider publishing guidelines, even though they were not legally required to do so.
Mr Justice Kerr said: “It is in my view beyond dispute that the issuing of guidelines will not resolve these difficulties.”
He added: “I’m not satisfied that it has been shown that there’s any insignificant uncertainty among the medical community as to the principles that govern abortion.”
So don’t sell the shares in Ryannair and Easyjet just yet.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 03:25 PM‘But the churches, of whom Debbie is saying “more power to their elbow”, won’t get behind this for their usual “morality” reasons and in the case of the Catholic Church they will actively oppose it.’
Comrade I’ve no problem in supporting the churches stand on this, I don’t think its just the catholics, but I will defer to your superior knowledge. I agree with you that the real way to end abortion is to have proper sex education and family planning.
Where I can’t agree though is - that this is down to a bunch of shady unelected church men, since I don’t believe it is. We are still a very conservative people, and the leaders of the main parties recognise this, and this in my opinion is the reason for the letter. They know the electorate won’t support them.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 03:32 PMComrade, I agree with you entirely. I mention gender only because I don’t expect a group of middle-aged, middle-class men to have any understanding of the situation women with unwanted pregnancies here face, which is why this news doesn’t surprise me. I suppose I just expect more from other women. I am frequently disappointed.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 03:35 PMMalcolm
Your links are somewhat out of date and the ruling from 2003 was overturned on appeal.
As for Jeffrey Donaldson’s claim that
“I think it’s a very powerful message we have here, four political leaders coming from very diverse political perspectives but united in their view that we do not want the 1967 Act, with all its implications, imposed on Northern Ireland and that the issue of abortion is a matter that should be left to the assembly itself.”
Riight.. the Assembly has already shown how it intends to deal with this issue - Assembly buries head in sand..
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 03:46 PMI suppose I just expect more from other women.
Really? I could say that I expect all women to have happy pregnancies, but then I live in the real world. Of course I feel for women in these situations, but that doesn’t change my political or pro life point of view, I see this as a right to life issue. It does not affect my understanding or empathy or sympathy or care for any preson in any hard situation.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 03:48 PMPete Baker @ 03:46 PM:
I’m grateful for the correction.
Still no sign of the guidelines, yet?
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 03:56 PMMalcolm
As far as I’m aware, the Department of Health are attempting to redraft the guidelines it took them took 3 years, and a court order, to draft in the first place.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 04:00 PMCS,
I think that the imposition here would come from the Liberal Democrats - who have no elected reprsentatives in NI - and Westminster. By all means make the case that laws should apply throughout the UK, but the reality is that the overwhelming majority of the electorate votes for parties opposed to extending the Act here. (I assume Alliance is also opposed, but don’t know)
So it is not shadowy unelected churchmen, but voters voting for politicians opposed to extending the act which is the issue here.
As for the response, I’ll be very interested to see if any elected politicians put their names to it.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 04:28 PMIt really is a measure of a speaker when you read his words and imagine him saying them.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1132/is_n1_v41/ai_7576181/pg_5
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 05:52 PMIt’s interesting that terrorist Gerry McGeough is very anti-abortion yet has no regrets about the murder of adult Protestants. The same could be said of some of the current Sinn Fein PIRA terrorists and some Roman Catholic priests - although the position of the Sinn Fein PIRA terrorist movement is not clear on the issue.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 06:52 PMI mention gender only because I don’t expect a group of middle-aged, middle-class men to have any understanding of the situation women with unwanted pregnancies here face, which is why this news doesn’t surprise me.
Yeah (stereotyping aside), it’s not as if any man in the world ever brought children up on his own. How could we possibly understand a lifetime committment to a child?
Btw ever heard of adoption?Personally, I inhabit the grey area on this one: there are clearly cases were abortion is the only option and it should be facilitated by the state, but those who advocate abortion as some sort of Contraception Max make me nauseous.
Posted by on May 11, 2008 @ 07:16 PM
