Saturday, April 12, 2008
Chinese Ambassador walks out of Green convention…
It seems John Gormley’s call for China to talk to the Dalai Lama didn’t go down well… he got up and walked out… There’s concern here now that this might obscure the policy detail of John Gormley’s speech...,
Mick Fealty @ 08:14 PM
Horny nun,
The dalai Lama is also an obstacle to progress
Hardly. The Tibetan Government in Exile operates democratically, much like that of any EU state in fact.
Posted by on Apr 13, 2008 @ 01:18 PM-
Here is a good article from today’s Sindo showing how the Irish and others flip flop when faced with the Sino Nazis. Just as Gemrany won most medals in 1936, so also will today’s Nazis win most medals in the new Berlin. Let’s hope they end up the way the Nazis did, cowering in their bunkers as nuclear warheads rain down on them.
Posted by on Apr 13, 2008 @ 01:25 PM I’ve changed my mind (particularly after reading Mick Hall and Crat’s comments); this wasn’t a silly stunt. This was a very clever stunt if you’re leader of the Green Party and a TD in Dublin South East, a place where the very streets run thick with wealthy bourgeois lawyers and academics who despite being extremely wealthy members of one of the richest (and most carbon producing) societies on the planet, think that they’re blood brothers with every Ecuadorian native peasant farmer because of Ireland’s history with the Brits. As a political gesture it’s strategically stupid, diplomatically offensive but probably tactically smart.
The Tibetans are not the only minority in China that feel this ‘pressure’.
Indeed, if were Beijing I worry a wee bit more about what the jetsam and flotsam of the Islamic world might do over Xinjiang than I would about what Martin Sheen was doing over Tibet.
Westerners hope that China through economic growth will eventually become a democracy and thus more tolerant of their ethnic minorities. This would not be in line with the past 2,500 years of Chinese history.
I beg to differ. British and French decolonisation in Africa has hardly in line with their history, either. So was Spain’s transformation into a dynamic, secular, democratic society. Or indeed Ireland’s. There’s a danger that you say that somehow the Chinese are different, possessed of some amoral slitty-eyed inscrutability and therefore incapable of transforming their society into something better. That brings you into unpleasant territory morally and counterproductive territory politically.
the notion that the Dali Lama ruled Tibet as some sort of peace-loving hippy, instead of at the head of a ruthless oppressive class that stymied development
You are being a bit harsh given that the Chinese took over Tibet when the Dalai Lama was a teenager. Nonetheless, it is worth bearing in mind that the Himalayas contains some of the most oppressive and backwards social systems in the world. Nepal is only just in the process of abandoning feudalism after a bloody civil war; Bhutan is still a full-on feudal state. It does not excuse the Chinese police shooting unarmed demonstrators, though.
the ideological concerns of rooting out corruption and bad planning within our jurisdiction
Louth Young Green - by going into coailition with FF? ROFLMAO!!!!!
And Sino Fascist/Horny Nun/Dalai Lama - if you’re going to post sub-Stormfront nonsense on here, at least do it under a consistent user name rather than creating so many sock puppets.
Posted by on Apr 13, 2008 @ 02:09 PMDL
cowering in their bunkers as nuclear warheads rain down on themI guess you weren’t paying attention when China test exploded their nuclear weapons or when they used a mighty rocket to send a man into space.
Posted by on Apr 13, 2008 @ 02:13 PMSammy,
That area does have a lot of opprsesive systems. Although thankfully Nepal is now in the process of being liberated and transformed. Led by Communists in fact.
Posted by on Apr 13, 2008 @ 02:21 PMThese Chinese are a dodgey bunch. Just the type to fool all the EU nancy boys.....
Tsk, tsk.Posted by on Apr 13, 2008 @ 03:24 PMGaribadly: Right on. And Irish sex tourists are liberating them form their old fashioned morals too. Thank “God” for the strong euro which allows us get into their panties/undies.
I figure the Chinese way of recycling prisoners would be a good idea. I saw a documentary recently showing just how much a cadavar is worth.Once we exterminate Christianity, then we can emulate the Chinese and the more entrepreneurial Americans. The world would be a better place if we took the kidneys of our prisoners for more worthy people. Where Mengele set the trend, the Americans and Chinese follow. The Irish have a lot of catching up to do.
And, regarding Tibet, remember what Nixon said about The Backyard, aka Latin America, No one give a f--k about the place.
Certainly, Ireland’s Nazis don’t. I checked out stormfront. They don’t seem to have a policy on Tibet. I put it down to myopia. I am unsure what to put the support here for Chinese fascism down to.
Nice shot at Martin Sheen too. Jealousy gets you nowhere. Not that anyone would or should be jealous of a practicing Catholic. I think you meant someone else dude. But i agree. No one should have opinions that diagree with yours or the animals who run China.
Posted by on Apr 13, 2008 @ 03:39 PMI never mentioned Martin Sheen. And perhaps you might want to look at what is happening in Nepal, where a democratically elected constitutional convention is about to have Communists as its biggest group. Communists who freed the country from royal tyranny, and are being recognised for that by voters from throughout the country.
On cadavers. You left out the Kosovo Liberation Army, which was exposed only yesterday as trading in Serb body parts by a UN investigator.
Posted by on Apr 13, 2008 @ 03:46 PM“Clearly the Greens, who invited the Ambassador, and their leader who subsequently, and publicly, attempted to embarrass him.”
Is it not the case that all the diplomatic corps are automatically invited to ard feiseanna?
And I thought they told the Chinese Ambassador what they were going to say beforehand anyway so he knew what was coming?
Posted by on Apr 13, 2008 @ 04:48 PMAs Gormley has found out, you can never find a decent Chinese on a Saturday night.
Posted by on Apr 13, 2008 @ 07:39 PMIn Ireland, the correct thing to do is to invite all ambassadors to the leader’s speech at conventions. The Chinese and Japanese ambassadors were present (and perhaps others). As they do at other conventions, they and their officials don’t applaud or give standing ovations, so as to appear neutral.
Thus, the notion that the Greens invited the Chinese ambassador as part of a not-so-clever trap to “insult him” is rubbish. It’d be a sorry state of affairs if the acceptance of an invitation (offered out of compliance with protocol) meant that a party leader couldn’t speak on the biggest foreign policy story of the day.
Also, I dislike the notion that this was somehow an “insult”. All that was said was that talks should be opened with the Dalai Lama. It’s hardly in “your ma” territory.
Anyway, the statement was cleared by DFA in advance, and the Chinese ambassador had been notified of the comments prior to the speech. It wasn’t a “trap”, or “student politics” - it was a political party leader commenting on a matter of foreign policy principle.
Posted by on Apr 13, 2008 @ 07:45 PMBut Mick Hall, the fact the feudalism may have been practiced in Tibet does not give China the right to invade that country. And it is also the case that while China has always claimed to rule Tibet, in practice until the collapse of Imperial rule in 1912, it was largely left to run its own affairs. The Communists invaded in 1949 and were unprovoked. The colonisation of Tibet is in stark contrast to the tolerance with which that region was treated by the otherwise oppressive Imperial regime. Tibet deserves to be freed of the Butchers of Beijing. As for that matter do the Uighurs of Xinjiang.
I am not surprised that T.Ruth is critical of what the Green minister did. I wonder is there a certain affinity between some Unionists and the Chinese in terms of opposing separatism and could that be why T.Ruth and his/her like hold these views?
Posted by on Apr 13, 2008 @ 08:22 PM“ The Tibetans have priests and mountains . The Tibetans are being ‘minoritised’ in their own country due to Chinese economic expansion . The Tibetans are not the only minority in China that feel this ‘pressure’. China is not a democracy”
Its classic Stalinist policy.... deport all the original ethnic folk from an area & then flood it with outside settlers. the reasons are obvious.
Posted by on Apr 13, 2008 @ 09:01 PMgarabaldi : while i agree with you on alot of points why this support for a horrendous totalitarian regime ?
Boycott all Chinese goods !!! live the life minimalistically… I have & now have found i can exist with just one spoon. My wife & kids are less than impressed. Her inside threw a hissy fit when i threw her “Sims” disc in the bin & as 4 the kids, iam the AntiChrist.
Posted by on Apr 13, 2008 @ 09:14 PM“But Mick Hall, the fact the feudalism may have been practiced in Tibet does not give China the right to invade that country.”
Brian,
I never said it did, as I said on my blog, it is for the Tibetan people to decide what relationship they have with China, and it is certainly not for the Chinese to make them become citizens of the Chinese Republic against their will. I’m one of those old fashioned lefties who believe “all peoples have the right to freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.” Indeed it is how I first washed up on Irelands political shore.All the best.
Posted by on Apr 13, 2008 @ 09:53 PMit’s such a laugh that everyone is talking about how “rude” it was for Gormley to criticise Chinese actions in Tibet… I would consider China’s actions to be so far and beyond “rude”.. but here we are talking about how impolite it was to mention the human rights abuses of a brutal nation..
If it had come to light in the media that the Chinese ambassador had been at the Greens’ convention and Gormley hadn’t said anything, then the same people would be talking about how “spineless” he was, how he’s “sold out” and all the usual tosh.
Fair play to Gormley and the Greens for coming out and saying it. You wouldn’t find the leader of other party in Ireland with the balls to say it.
Posted by on Apr 13, 2008 @ 10:09 PM*Although thankfully Nepal is now in the process of being liberated and transformed. Led by Communists in fact.*
Ah, Communist ‘liberation’, truly a joy to behold, just ask the Poles, and the Czechs, and the Estonians, and the Ukrainians, and the Lithuanians.
Communist style democracy; one man one vote.
One time.
Posted by on Apr 14, 2008 @ 02:54 AMBut in this case, Harry, it is the Nepalese people who are being asked and their response to the advances made by their Communist Party against their dictatorship is a resounding “YES!”.
The Dali Lama’s claims to represent Tibet are completely spurious. He has not now nor has he ever held any mandate whatsoever from the Tibetan people. He represents only a discredited exploitative class of feudal priests and his concerns for his people after China entered Tibet were so strong that he upped and left them to it while he and his cohorts languished in comfort and safety and feted by those who harboured ill will against China.
Posted by on Apr 14, 2008 @ 04:26 AMAh yes Rory, communists giving the people a choice, how refreshing, I wonder how long that will last.
Hey I’m just an old cynic, I’m sure this time it will be different, I’m sure the Nepalese communists will make a huge success of things and create a shining workers’ paradise with all the grim delights that term usually entails.
We’ve only had almost a century of communists trying to make their dreary system work. Maybe it will work this time, and if it all goes pear shaped as it usually does, well, what’s a few thousand Nepalese corpses when added to the one hundred million victims of communist failure, eh?
The “People’s Flag” is deepest red, for a very good reason.
Posted by on Apr 14, 2008 @ 08:06 AMFair play to John Gormley. It was very brave of him to say that.
As Pidge said above other ambassadors were present and the Chinese Ambassador was notified of what was going to be said so it was not a childish ambush as some people posting here have niavely stated.
Also i agree with Junkheads post above. If John Gormley had not mentioned Tibet and then it became known that a Chinese Ambassador was present the Greens would have been met with the usual crap along the lines of “you have sold out” etc etc.
Again i say fair play to John Gormley and his Green Party Colleagues.
Posted by on Apr 14, 2008 @ 09:05 AMInviting someone to your conference and insulting them is still childish. As for Harry’s remarks, we’ll wait and see what develops in Nepal. The violence of a revolution depends on the nature of the resistance offered by those opposed to change. If their oppoenents refuse to recognise or seek to undermine their mandate (and there are several bigger powers liable to interfere) then things could become unpredictable. But hopefully not.
Posted by on Apr 14, 2008 @ 09:21 AMGaribaldy,
“Inviting someone to your conference and insulting them is still childish.”As far as I know it was protocol to invite ambassadors and also, as far as I know, the Chinese Ambassador knew the contents of the speech beforehand.
Where is the childishness in following diplomatic protocol and informing the ambassador of the contents of the speech so he can make a mature decision whether to attend or not?
Posted by on Apr 14, 2008 @ 09:25 AMAnd Garibaldy, could you point out the insult in the speech?
Posted by on Apr 14, 2008 @ 09:30 AMThe insult lies in inviting someone to attend, then telling them how to run things in their territory. I’d have thought that was obvious. There are also ways and means of protesting about the behaviour of a government, and this was ignored. And I wonder if the Chinese ambassador was told the exact wording of the speech. That is unclear. I suspect had he been told exactly what the wording was, he may have refused to attend. But we don’t know.
Posted by on Apr 14, 2008 @ 09:43 AMGaribaldy,
“The insult lies in inviting someone to attend, then telling them how to run things in their territory. I’d have thought that was obvious.”Not at all obvious I am afraid. If protocol demands you invite the Chinese Ambassador and you then give him a copy of the speech so he can see whether he wants to be in the room for it, where is the insult?
If protocol was not followed and he was the only ambassador not given an invite would that not have been an insult too?
I don’t understand what you think the Greens should have done on this.
Or is no one allowed discuss any issue involving foreign countries at ard feiseanna anymore?
Posted by on Apr 14, 2008 @ 09:47 AM
