Thursday, March 27, 2008
Britishness doing fine?
A new MORI poll about identities shows Britishness seems to be doing fine in its three constituent parts of Great Britain:
81% in England felt a strong sense of belonging to Britain, compared with 87% in Wales and with 70% in Scotland and it’s worth noting that, that for all the focus on the role on the Union in Scotland, 71% in London felt a strong sense of belonging to Britain, virtually the same percentage as in Scotland.
The regional identifications were stronger but the poll seems to indicate that the vast majority have no difficulty with multiple overlapping identities:
* 82% in England felt a strong sense of belonging to England
* 91%% in Scotland felt a strong sense of belonging to Scotland
* 95% in Wales felt a strong sense of belonging to Wales
PS I am away for the day so apologies to anyone I have been debating with on other threads it will be this evening before I can respond.
Fair Deal @ 10:23 AM
N.Ireland would have a fairly high percentage also.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 11:49 AMIs Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal your homeland?
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 12:07 PMBertie might agree with him on Cavan though!
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 12:44 PMI say, off topic and all, but have you noticed the absolute rubbish Iris robinson spouts in the New letter. Do you know if she gets paid for it?
If she does maybe I will have a go myself after all it does not look that difficult just catch some loyalist/unionist/bogeyman and there you go no need to do any research just spout what comes off the top of your head..............money for old rope !!
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 01:06 PM‘N.Ireland would have a fairly high percentage also’
Really......wow, I wonder why?
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 01:12 PMSo this is fascinating.
Such a high percentage of people living in Britain feel a sense of belonging to erm.. Britain.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 01:22 PMAs one commentator on the MORI site says “you get the answer you want with these things by how you frame the question.”
Of course, in FD’s case, it might be suggested he starts the thread he wants depending on the answers. Hence I don’t recall him starting at thread for the responses contained in 24th British Social Attitudes survey (Jan 2008).
Some particular highlights are:
Only 13% of people born and living in England, and 3% of people born and living in Scotland, describe themselves as ‘only’ or ‘mainly’ British…
...Gordon Brown’s premiership has once again brought national identity, and ‘Britishness’ in particular, to the top of the political debate. The report shows that fewer people now describe themselves as British:• When asked to choose just one national identity for themselves, four in ten people (39%) in England say that they are British, down from over six in ten (63%) in 1992. Then three in ten (31%)said they were English; now nearly half (47%) do so.
• In 1974, three in ten people (31%) in Scotland said they were British, now half this proportion (14%) do so. The proportion choosing Scottish has gone up from 65% to 78%.
• But when people are allowed to choose more than one national identity, seven in ten (68%) in England choose British, as do four in ten (43%) in Scotland. The most subtle way of asking about national identity allows people to weigh up a ‘national’ identity (English or Scottish) against a ‘state’ identity (British). The survey asked this of those born and living in
England or Scotland (or ‘natives’). This shows that:
• Few English or Scottish natives think of themselves as ‘only’ or ‘mainly’ British: 13% in England and 3% in Scotland.
• Nearly half of English natives (46%) say that they are ‘equally English and British’. One in five (21%) Scottish natives describe themselves as ‘equally Scottish and British’.
• The most popular response from Scottish natives is to describe oneself as being ‘only’ or ‘mainly’
Scottish, chosen by nearly three-quarters (73%) of people. Far fewer – 37% – English natives describe themselves as being ‘only’ or ‘mainly’ English.However, both surveys appear to agree that when discussing ‘Britishness’, they’re not interested in what anyone here thinks.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 01:52 PM‘Such a high percentage of people living in Britain feel a sense of belonging to erm.. Britain.
LOL :)
So we Irish (on this island North and South ) have a slightly greater sense of belonging to Ireland than the English have of belonging to England ? but less of a sense of belonging to ?Ireland than the Welsh have of Wales or the Scots of Scotland . Now that is interesting
For the purpose of this comparison I’m assuming (no jokes about assume please) that the entire Irish Nationalist/Republican element in the island’s population some 85% feel Irishness and the 15% Unionists don’t feel Irishness and instead feel more Britishness .
‘N.Ireland would have a fairly high percentage also’ ‘
Not really it’s probably about 53.7698456 % if anybody is interested enough to bother .
Poor Gordon . Such an excellent Chancellor and now he’s reduced to this kind of codology . Why doesn’t he amend /repeal the Act of Settlement, disestablish the Anglican Church, allow RC’s to succeed to the throne and that way he can leave a legacy -:).
I mean even here in the Republic we repealed the ‘special position’ of the RC Church . You would think that Britain could do the same for the special position of the Anglican Church ?
Surely the Anglicans can elect a kind of English Pope/Primate etc if they have to?
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 01:55 PM“Why doesn’t he amend /repeal the Act of Settlement, disestablish the Anglican Church, allow RC’s to succeed to the throne and that way he can leave a legacy -:).”
If the RC church repeals Ne Temere (which has the same effect)then we can talk about repealing the act of settlement and we’ll all be on equal footing as it were....
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 02:03 PMfair-deal
I noticed NI wasn’t mentioned once in the article.
Why do some people in NI call themselves British?Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 02:19 PMbecause they have a british passport, have the queens head in their pocket, pay tax to the british government, get free medical treatment etc etc etc etc. sorry, maybe that was a rhetorical question lol
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 03:25 PMagh
so how is it that NI is never mentioned in these surveys?
Is it because NI is not actually part of GB?
So the people living in NI are not actually British.
They are northern irish, which is currently part of the UK.
Isn’t that more accurate?
Is this a sore point for some folks? lolPosted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 03:41 PMSince I want to die an englishman and before that day I worship everthing english I think that they should have had the decency to include me in that survey. Bloody Brits, I mean my ken fook.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 03:51 PMOrangemen
If you were born or raised in Ireland then you can never die and englishman, at least according to the english you will always be Irish.
Good luck on that though
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 04:13 PMDemocratic,
If the RC church repeals Ne Temere (which has the same effect)then we can talk about repealing the act of settlement and we’ll all be on equal footing as it were....The RC Church got rid of Ne Temere in 1970 so it’s back to Protestant brothers and Catholic sisters in them mixed Irish marriages. Hurry up with that repealing business.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 04:23 PMTwo very good books for all to read (especially Unionists) are....
‘Blood of the Isles’ by Bryan Sykes
‘The Atlantean Irish’ by Bob Quinn
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 04:25 PMso how is it that NI is never mentioned in these surveys?
++ hmm, 1 survey. u’d better go to wilkepedia and find another…Is it because NI is not actually part of GB?
++ u must have got an A in geography-correct. But NI is an integral part of the UK - just ask SF - they signed up :)So the people living in NI are not actually British.
++ approx 50% are and 50% arn’t. I’m easy with that - are you? When it comes to what actually matters and where they pay their tax and claim their dole I imagine most go through the bristish system?They are northern irish, which is currently part of the UK.
Isn’t that more accurate?
++ They and us then is it - a nation of equals my arse. I’d (them uns) consider myself, British, Northern Irish and then Irish. But thats just me, them uns and us ins may differ somewhat but who cares?Is this a sore point for some folks? lol
A sore point is when people start mouthing off and try and dictate other people’s national identity. Who cares if I feel proud to be Irish, British or whatever? Get over it! lolPosted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 04:50 PMso how is it that NI is never mentioned in these surveys?
++ hmm, 1 survey. u’d better go to wilkepedia and find another…Actually, I’ve already found another. You can read about it in post 7.
Is it because NI is not actually part of GB?
++ u must have got an A in geography-correct. But NI is an integral part of the UK - just ask SF - they signed up :)Hard to argue that. Easier to argue that you appear not to be able to distinguish between citizenship and nationality :)
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 05:04 PM‘When it comes to what actually matters and where they pay their tax and claim their dole I imagine most go through the bristish system?’
I had no idea people on the brew paid taxes towards their own benefits.....with what exactly?
‘But NI is an integral part of the UK’
not according to the british.....you know those people over the sea, in Britain.
‘So the people living in NI are not actually British.
++ approx 50% are and 50% arn’t’Right can i claim to be spanish? the women are nice and I love chorizo.
‘A sore point is when people start mouthing off and try and dictate other people’s national identity’
a sore point is when a minority in a country go against the wishes of the majority in a country, stamp their feet and demand their own little sectarian statelet be set up.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 05:16 PMDec
Indeed the question is important. Unlike the question, the flexibility of the Union means people are not forced to choose one and only one. They can choose to be one or more. Hence “no difficulty with multiple overlapping identities”
Perci
Poor attempt at trolling.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 05:43 PM“The RC Church got rid of Ne Temere in 1970 so it’s back to Protestant brothers and Catholic sisters in them mixed Irish marriages. Hurry up with that repealing business.
Posted by George on Mar 27, 2008 @ 03:23 PM”
Not how I understand it George - the original covenant made before God by both marriage parties to bring any children up as Catholic has been very slightly downgraded to an promise to do
everything in the power of any Catholic parties to influence the raising of children in the said Catholic faith - not really much of a repeal I’m sure you will agree....you do also know that the act of settlement was supposed to have been formed as a response to Ne Temere decree.Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 05:44 PMDemocratic,
you do also know that the act of settlement was supposed to have been formed as a response to Ne Temere decree.I doubt that very much as Ne Temere dates from 1907 and the Act of Settlement from over 200 years earlier. You probably means some other decree.
Not how I understand it George - the original covenant made before God by both marriage parties to bring any children up as Catholic has been very slightly downgraded to an promise to do
I understand it differently and I also think you have missed the key point for the non-Catholic in this.
Now only the Catholic partner has to promise to where possible raise the children as Catholic.
Previously, the non-Catholic partner was virtually always obliged to convert to Catholicism and the couple were obliged to raise the children as RCs.
More than a slight downgrade if you want to shack up with a RC, in my view.Anyway, what on earth is a modern democracy doing having anachronistic laws on its books merely because it wants to put one over on the Catholics and their decrees. It’s 2008.
But if you feel the two are linked, why is the Act of Settlement not “slightly downgraded” to a promise by the Protestant monarch to do his/her best to raise the childer as Protestants.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 06:10 PMDEC:so how is it that NI is never mentioned in these surveys?
++ hmm, 1 survey. u’d better go to wilkepedia and find another…Actually, I’ve already found another. You can read about it in post 7.
lol, was only extracting the you know what, but fair play you! Questions is if the mainland doesn’t care much about us - does the south give 2 hoots either?
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 06:18 PM‘Questions is if the mainland doesn’t care much about us -’
agh you must be from Rathlin island.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 07:15 PMSo agh feels irish.
Down the line a bit but there you go, you feel what you feel.
This rules agh out of the suspect list for the ‘Kill All Irish’ graffiti.
You learn something every day.
Posted by on Mar 27, 2008 @ 07:56 PM
