Saturday, February 25, 2006
Blogging the riots…
The eye witness accounts have been stunning from Back Seat Drivers and Dossing Times, along with DT’s great capture of the scene ripped from the City Council’s traffic cameras. Take a bow lads! Strong shot from Flickr of a Guard apparently about to be hit with a brick - with, bizarrely, a Villa fan in foregrond). More from Celtic Freedom; Chris Logan thinks RSF are a disgrace. Dublin Met Blogs has loads of stuff. Kevin was on the ground too. Thesme feels sick. Chris is annoyed. Beano says, so much for a new Ireland. The big man is disgusted. Richard calls it a wake up call for the State. El Blogador with a round up of reaction. Citizen photos here, here, here, here, here, here and here.
Update: BBC video of the riot. And some very good stuff on Indymedia.
Mick Fealty @ 08:50 PM
“However I also condemn your rather shallow and pathetic attempts to justify the rioting yesterday. I also find the line you’re taking to be pretty hypocritical. IRA murderers are commemorated all the time by republicans during marches and demonstrations. The Sinn Fein website sells tacky pins and badges of people who drove a war during which civilians were murdered in this country.”
I am not justifying the rioting at all. I condemn it but I am simply saying that there is fault on both sides here. LU is more than just a victims group. Read the FAIR website on its demonisation of the Catholic church. LU invited Loyalist paramilitaries to take part in their Belfast march.
Someone talked about terrorist photos on Republican marches. Naturally I condemn the inclusion in marches of anyone who murdered innocent civilians, which obviously includes the PIRA, RIRA, OIRA, CIRA and INLA. Of course, if you are including the 1916 rebels and those who fought in the War of Independence I would not consider them to be terrorists as they generally did not target civilians.
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 01:12 PMBB “the Southern govt never armed the IRA.” This is unproven and disputed. The arms trial collapsed because it could not be proven that those charged were not working under government sanction.
I have always maintained that this issue should be top of the list for public inquiries, ahead of issues like the Cavan/Monaghan bombing. If the Lynch government managed to get arms to the IRA 9or indeed even tried to arm the IRA) it puts a very different contex on what happened later.
If it was rouge elements within FF (the Blaney and Boland factions) this also need to be known.
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 01:24 PMbrian bru,
how many extraditions have there been from the south to the UK?
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 01:32 PMCome on guys, try and keep on-topic :)
I for one dont doubt that Dublin and RoI opinion on Unionism wasnt represented by the rioters yesterday.
Neither Willie Frazer, nor Jeffrey represented any Unionist like me either.
I think public opinion in Dublin will build to insist that the government, whatever past FF may or may not have done, provide an audience or an invite for a future demo (at which the nature of Loyalism as something civil or something nasty may or may not appear.)
I would much have preferred the negative aspects of LU attitudes to have caught the headlines yesterday. For example, they were planning to carry placards of a man they claim to be a victim, but who in fact murdered anything between 40 and 50 people. They didnt get the chance to show themselves up.
Now I see some posters claiming that the *few* who demonstrated were in fact ecapsulating the spirit of the *few* involved in 1916. Such attitudes are evidence of criminal insanity.
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 02:36 PMNeither Willie Frazer, nor Jeffrey represented any Unionist like me either.
Then you feel no grievance???
Hmmmm where have you been the in the last year?
I personally have no respect for wee Jeff and also find Frazers politics irritable but I still repect them for campaigning on behalf of Unionist/Protestant victims!
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 02:40 PMUnionist, I don’t know. But it’s a decision for the courts. Unlike the UK, we have a written constitution so the government can’t just do what it likes. So it’s not as simple as saying “oh the govt should extradite them”.
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 02:42 PMJust when you thought it was safe to march down O’Connell Street.......
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 02:46 PMFermanagh, would you categorise Robert McConnell as a “victim”?
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 02:53 PMFU:
I feel no grievance, I am not bitter, I am not bigotted, therefore I have no time for LU nor they for me.
Neither it would appear do those who have every right to feel grievance, such as Alan McBride. Why do you think Frazer was refused a personal protection weapon?
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 02:55 PMstrange how no nationalists on this board feel any empathy at all to those who wanted to march in Dublin, whose loved ones were murdered by catholics over the last 30-40 years
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 02:57 PMWe do feel empathy with IRA victims, but the mixing it with support for paramilitarism on the part of some of the supporters of the march is a different matter. The categorisation of Loyalist terrorists as “victims” is offensive to innocent people who never killed anyone but ended up killed anyway.
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 03:02 PMFermanagh, would you categorise Robert McConnell as a “victim”?
No.
I have read a lot about this apparent poster… any proof, pictures etc.? Just as stupid wee jeff is he isnt that slow....
Now staying on the topic of victims campaigners.... what about Raymond McCartney?? Murderer of 2 innocent men including a RUC man.... yet he is very much so involved in campaigning on behalf of the Bloody Sunday victims! Whats your opinion of him?
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 03:05 PMI feel no grievance, I am not bitter, I am not bigotted, therefore I have no time for LU nor they for me.
Neither it would appear do those who have every right to feel grievance, such as Alan McBride. Why do you think Frazer was refused a personal protection weapon?
!!!
I have to ask you..... are you even a Unionist?
Can you not see what is happening all around you!
Can you honestly say you had no reservations about the OTR bill.... it may be gone now, but it will be back.
Bigoted.... so if your a victim of Republican violence your bigoted?? If you ask me, you are a disgrace.
Why he was refused a personal protection firearm.. I have no idea, but no doubt he has acquired other means of protection.
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 03:13 PM“Can you not see what is happening all around you! “
Yes, I can. I can see bitterness without reason, exploited by political leaders without a strategy or a genuine concern for my country or the coming generation. The past is done. The path being pursued by LU and the DUP will only create more victims. And thats where they would feel most comfortable -with war. But Paisley is 80 this year. Some are more comfortable with revenge, and the bitterness that consumes Frazer et al.
Not me, not my daughter, not the next generation, whether it stays here or moves away.
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 03:23 PMFrazer was refused a PPW due to his very close assocation with paramiltaries, not my words, but a judge. he preys on the malignant aspect of victimhood, that seeks to offer revenge in terms of wrecking and preventing change. He is not doing the work of Christ.
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 03:25 PMIf you must know LU has cross party support, the Deputy Leader of the Official Unionists was also in attendance yesterday along side with wee jeff… This is a matter that Unionism can unite on
path being pursued by LU and the DUP will only create more victims
Have you a problem with victims?? Have you a problem with Unionists expressing their anger in peaceful methods??
BTW just out off interest, I presume you either dont vote or go alliance?
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 03:32 PMBrian Boru,
According to some RSF supportrs on the ground, many Provo supporters were amongst the ranks of thugs yesterday.
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 03:33 PMUnionism achievd the politicisation of SF and the destruction of the IRA arsenal. Trimble achieved something no Unionist leader since Craig could have imagined. (and even he talked with Collins)
Then....Paisley gets the votes and refuses to accept what he didnt actually achieve.
If being a Unionist means that I have to deny a role in government to democratically elected politicians and that no nationalist or Republcian is fit for government, then no, Im not a Unionist.
But the Union is no longer under threat from anyone Green, but Hain-Orange. None so blind as cant see that.
Who I vote for is actually none of your business but there was a quick flash of me on today’s Politics Show.
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 03:37 PM“I would like to know if Unionists on this forum condemn the remarks by Willie Frazer, and in particular the refusal to agree not to carry a photo of this vile man.”
Brian Boru,
Do you PSF/PIRA be calling for their supporters not to carry photographs of the Hunger Strikers during the big commenorations this year?
Some of those “victims”, were equally as “vile” asb anyone whose picture MAY (a Daily Lieland rumour?) have been on display yesterday.
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 03:41 PMIf being a Unionist means that I have to deny a role in government to democratically elected politicians and that no nationalist or Republcian is fit for government, then no, Im not a Unionist.
If you actually read comments properly you would actually see your above comment has no relevance to this thread, we are talking about victims and the rights of their campaigners.
If you must know I only asked about your voting preference purely down to the fact that I hope you have no connection to main stream Unionist parties for your views on victims are shameful.
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 03:51 PM“According to some RSF supportrs on the ground, many Provo supporters were amongst the ranks of thugs yesterday.”
They are opposed to the peace-process and would say that to stir up trouble.
“Do you PSF/PIRA be calling for their supporters not to carry photographs of the Hunger Strikers during the big commenorations this year?”
Those of them who were killers of civilians should not be eulogised I accept that. Bobby Sands was jailed for being in a car with a gun, not for actually killing someone.
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 04:01 PMI think its rather strange that when I respond to a question, that I am criticised for going off-topic? I dont think I’ll respond to you any more. As for *shameful*, perhaps you could explain how marching with Orange bands and UDA men in Dublin was showing respect to genuinely innocent victims?
I think this planned march was shamefully exploitative in exactly the way Frazers use of victimhood was outlined in my post above.
Had it gone ahead perhaps Danny K could have relived gerry Fitts experience in Oct 68? He could have got a clean shirt in Dunnes, €6? :)
At least buying a new shirt would have meant the visit was worthwhile.
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 04:03 PMbobby sands was an IRA terrorist whose death should be celebrated by all unionists, one less murderous sucm to worry about.
if only all of them starved slowly to death then NI would be a better place
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 04:04 PM“good post Brian”
Gopaddy,
Do you still subscribe to your viewpoint, expressed only this morning, that:
“You shower have dictated the rules for long enough. If you don’t like it in the country which you’re occupying then fuck off to the mainland, I wonder if they will welcome yer drums and flutes there. I doubt it. Ye are a race without a country. Give up.”
You don’t want a United Ireland, do you?
Brian Boru,
“Those of them who were killers of civilians should not be eulogised I accept that. Bobby Sands was jailed for being in a car with a gun, not for actually killing someone.”
No...wait a wee minute.
Bobby was a member of a movement which blew hundreds of innocent (Irish) civilians to pieces, tortured hundreds of innocent (Irish) civilians and disappeared innocent (Irish) mothers....and that’s just for starters.
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 04:16 PMKathy C,
“The british empire put down the Easter rising of 1916 and members of those who promote the british way of life (unionist/orange order members) came to strut their stuff in the very same area of the Irish rising during the year the Irish Republic plan to have it’s army march in the capital to celebrate the Rising.
I’m sure there were many in the press and Irish politians back in 1916 that felt those who stood up to the british were evil. I feel those who stood up to the british orange way of life...back in 1916 were hero’s”
You don’t really want a United Ireland, do you?
I doubt you cherish all the chioldren of the nation equally either.
Posted by on Feb 26, 2006 @ 04:21 PM
