Thursday, June 19, 2008
Belfast Lord Mayor to avoid official Somme commemoration
Six years after the first Sinn Féin Lord Mayor of Belfast, Alex Maskey, refused to attend the official ceremony commemorating those killed at the Battle of the Somme and, instead, laid a wreath separately at 9am on the same morning - at the time Mick suggested his attendance “may be too soon for both his own and Unionist supporters in the City” - this year’s new Sinn Féin Lord Mayor of Belfast, Tom Hartley, has announced he will not be attending the official ceremony and will instead lay a wreath seperately at 9am on the same morning, before chairing a Special Council meeting scheduled to begin at the same time as the official ceremony. Tom Hartley claims that this “consolidates and builds upon the initiatives taken by Alex Maskey during his term as Mayor and by Joe O’Donnell as Deputy Mayor to reach out to the unionist and protestant people of Belfast.” In 2004 a Sinn Féin Ard Fheis passed a resolution barring Sinn Fein representatives from attending “British military commemorations”.
Pete Baker @ 06:04 PM
i find this very funny, i wonder if Fraincie Mollys event marking lasts year 11/11 commemoration will become the norm for SF this year,
didnt realise that IRA members served in the world wars was interesting to see tho! wonder what SF line on that event was!
than again this is the same MLA who said SF never endorsed violence and that the Shankill bomber was murdered!
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 07:14 PMI’m sorry: I simply do not understand this.
Hartley would not attend the official ceremony; but is quite happy to have a 9 a.m. personal ceremony. Surely both are “British military commemorations”.
The practice of mayorality outside the benighted six counties involves many commitments which the Civic Leader performs because of the office, irrespective of personal views and prejudices, and as totemic leader of all the burgesses. If you can’t play the game, don’t lend your name.
By the same token, a Unionist who also holds a position on behalf of the whole community should be equally prepared to be impartial.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 07:15 PMI think Tom’s position here is perfectly reasonable, he must speak for himself, but many people who believe WW1 was a totally unnecessary slaughter, find the official commemorations as being unacceptable as they glorify the war in a deceitful and dishonest manner. Indeed the same type of lying words are used that Gordon Brown used about Afghanistan only this week.
It is possible to commemorate the dead of WW1, by for example laying a wreath quietly, or saying a pray if you are that way inclined,
To do otherwise is to ignore the fact that millions of service personnel, of all nationalities, had their lives stolen by incompetent and wicked politicians.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 07:21 PMMick Hall,
although a lot of what you say may well be true about WW1 - the justness or otherwise of the war does not determine the Mayor’s or SF’s position - its the fact that it is seen as a British war that creates the problem for them.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 07:39 PMMick Hall @ 08:21 PM:
Of course the First World War was a pointless blood-bath. That’s fair currency in a historical debate. It’s got damn all to do with acknowledging the deaths of thousands of good Belfast working men. Across the UK, every year on Armistice Day Sunday, decent socialists and pacifists don the mayoral chain and attend the war memorial ceremony—not to join a “military commemoration” but to acknowledge the truth of Mick Hall‘s final paragraph.
If the SF line is so anti-military, I expect repeated protests whenever Oirish pub singers steal Dominic Behan’s The Patriot Game, and invert its meaning.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 07:49 PMNot good - it’s not commemerating the event just recognising the slaughter of thousands of Irish people for no purpose - he must attend surely.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 07:51 PMWhat’s the big deal either way? Provisional Sinn Fein gave up any theoretical high ground they thought they had when they decided to enter into a Stormont government with Unionists, thus abandoning any real claim to being a Republican party.
Anyway, many Catholics who thought they were helping Ireland’s cause for Home Rule or doing their duty for the Empire also died at the Somme.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 07:57 PMThe ceremony has nothing to do with celebrating the British Army or establishment.
It is simply remembering the young men (Catholic and Protestant and Athiest who were needlessly sacrificed for the interests of the world ruling class.
Can’t see why anyone cannot attend.Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:06 PMForgot to mention that when I attend such events I also think about the German and other boys who were also sent to their untimely slaughter.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:08 PMI have to say that I think there should be no commemorations of an imperialist war over who got to oppress and ruthlessly exploit not only the people of Europe, but Africa and Asia especially. No person from Ireland - regardless of politics - who died in that war died a heroic or a useful death. They threw away their lives on an imperialist adventure. An imperialism we should remember that had the full support of the Irish Parliamentary Party. I’m sure many joined for economic reasons and all the rest of it, but the same conditions were faced by socialists who remained loyal to internationalism, such as the men of the Irish Citizen Army. Those are the Irish heroes of the world war, not the victims on the western front.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:16 PMHarsh verdict, Garibaldy. You seem to confuse commemoration with celebration. Of course the deaths were needless. Not a reason not to pause and think about it. If we don’t remember, it could happen again.
There has been a lot of discussion of the EU this past week. The original intent, so that we couldn’t go to war again seems to have been forgotten. That intent has certainly been successful. Would the Balkan atrocities of recent times have happened if Yugoslavia had been a member? Perhaps, but then again, perhaps not.Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:24 PM“The practice of mayorality outside the benighted six counties involves many commitments which the Civic Leader performs because of the office, irrespective of personal views and prejudices, and as totemic leader of all the burgesses. If you can’t play the game, don’t lend your name.”
The key phrase here is “outside the benighted six counties.” Considering how the vast majority of public representatives here choose to creatively interpret who represents the “community”, this private ceremony practice is light-years ahead of the norm.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:26 PMJoe,
Of course let’s not forget the role in the EU - driven by Germany in this case - played (and continues to play regarding Kosovo) in hastening the breakup of Yugoslavia, and encouraging the intransigent nationalists to rush the process and inaugurate civil war.
And what you need to remember Joe is that increasingly the commemorations of WWI are explicitly linked to ongoing campaigns around the world, and towards the veterans of numerous campaigns against liberation movements from the 1940s onwards. That’s where the money for the red poppies goes. White ones are commemoration. Red ones are celebration.
And yes, it is a harsh verdict. But surely if we are to avoid this happening again, we need to ruthless expose the reality of what went on, rather than sugar-coat it?
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:32 PMwe need to ruthless expose the reality of what went on, rather than sugar-coat it?
Totally agree with the first part, Garibaldy. As for the second part, I would never knowingly sugar coat it.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:36 PMFair enough Joe, but I think a lot of what is driving the new interest in Ireland in commemorating WWI is exactly about sugarcoating it, partly in a ridiculous attempt to foster community relations through celebrating the fact that Irish people of all types shed their blood in the most ignoble of causes. Never do we hear the point I made above about imperialism mentioned. The reality is that the IPP regularly in Parliament spoke about how great the Empire was, and that its supporters who went did so not only because they thought Home Rule would follow, but also because Ireland within the Empire had been a central plank of the majority of nationalism from O’Connell’s time. I don’t accept that what these people were fighting for should be ignored. It should be stressed.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:43 PMA bit off topic, but could we have a blog about this, probably the most ridiculous waste of money for a tourist trap yet conceived ? Note how the American backers are expecting the majority of the cash to build this monstrous white elephant to come from the state.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:44 PMNot totally off-topic, Comrade. Celebrating a disaster.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:48 PMOf course let’s not forget the role in the EU - driven by Germany in this case - played (and continues to play regarding Kosovo) in hastening the breakup of Yugoslavia, and encouraging the intransigent nationalists to rush the process and inaugurate civil war.
I haven’t heard that tired old line for a while.
Slobbo was a good socialist and the Kosovars, Croats and Bosnians were fascist dupes, eh?Yugoslav patriots - i.e. Serb nationalists - made the Provos look like the Legion of Mary.
As for the centotaph - unionists have been ramming the World Wars down our necks for eons. No one who fought at the Somme is alive today - let those who died as cannon fodder in an imperialst war rest in peace.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:53 PMMaybe Tom Hartley is avoiding this just on the off chance that Unionists & Loyalists have hijacked and politicised the entire event. Just like the Poppy and other local Remembrance events Protestant bigots and extremists take over these things to the total exclusion of anyone else. Is it any wonder Republicans & Nationalists want nothing to do with it. I know of a Catholic ex-serviceman who posts a contribution to the British Legion direct EVERY year but who has NO time for those here who wear MASSIVE poppys on their lapels & hats weeks in advance of Remembrance Sunday SOLELY as a political statement. I went with him one year to observe the ‘cultural’ Orangefest at Belfast City Hall and he was disgusted as known Loyalist paramilitaries mingled with mainstream Unionists & senior Orange Order members as they laid wreaths at the City Hall. That is why Tom Hartley and Catholics who served in the British forces want NO part of local ‘commemorations’. The hypocrisy and double standards of Unionism, especially towards Loyalist death squads, is nauseating.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:53 PMGaribaldy,
how great the Empire was
Those were different times, of course, and the hoi-polloi were exposed only to the propaganda of their “all-knowing” leaders.
I wonder how embarrassed the present generation are about the misdeeds of their money grabbing predecessors.Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:54 PMFrom Tuesday’s news…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7458315.stm
A quick quote from Wiki…
“In July 2007, marking the 90th anniversary of the beginning of the Battle of Passchendaele, in which he fought, Harry Patch revisited the site of the battle in Flanders to pay his respects to the fallen on both sides of the conflict; he was accompanied by historian Richard van Emden. On this occasion, Patch described war as the “calculated and condoned slaughter of human beings” and said that “war isn’t worth one life."”
But really, I’m beginning to think that while there are still 11 servicemen who were there, and are still with us, it might be time just for once, to set aside the why’s and wherefore’s and just remember. Who am I to second guess - but I would say if the usual bunch on here were to sit with Harry Patch, and hit him with the “we don’t do poppies and we don’t do WW commemorations cos it doesn’t sit well with our electorate” line, and then listen to what he told them, they might be treated to a lesson in humility?
It’s just a thought.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:55 PMWell said LURIG
Not to mention their insistence on glorifying / commemorating the UDR at every possible opportunity
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:56 PMAs others have said the commemoration of the Somme is just that: a commemoration, it is not a celebration. For Hartley to claim his actions are reaching out to unionists and then do this shows that he is as committed to “Unionist engagement” as all the other SF members.
Of course the most likely explanation for all this is that Hartley is doing what “unionist Engagement” / outreach etc. was always about. That is to make pseudo gestures designed to annoy unionists and then allow SF to play the wounded innocents; the people who tried to reach out and were spurned. In their own minds simultaneously pretending to gain the high moral ground and yet in reality antagonise unionists. That Hartley should try such with the Somme commemoration should surprise no one: not that that makes it any the less revolting.
Garibaldy,
I hear what you are saying about the red poppies but in all honesty I have never worn one in anything other than a spirit of remembrance. My late father in law always wore one and as a man who spent three and a half years in a Japanese POW camp if it was good enough for him to wear it is good enough for me to wear.Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 08:56 PMgood one LURIG, if they reigned in the bigots, there’s be more give and take all round.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 09:00 PMJoe,
They were different times. But equally people from the same backgrounds made different decisions, so there are limits to how far that logic applies.
I think it’s worth noting that at the Somme commemoration there will be a distinct absence of remembrance for the people who died in other countries under the boot of the imperialist powers. Note also the lack of concern in some of the comments here about them too. Too fixated on the dreary steeples.
Picador,
The Croat leadership certainly weren’t fascist dupres. Mostly just plain old fascists.
Posted by on Jun 19, 2008 @ 09:01 PM
