Sunday, November 11, 2007
Ballymoney - ‘Town of bigots’…
WHEN Ballymoney Council was asked to provide Irish street names in three villages last week, the vote didn’t pass - perhaps unsurprising in a unionist-dominated council. However, the vote was (I believe) four for and four against, with the mayor - hardline Paisleyite John Finlay and casting vote holder - abstaining. Like Finlay, most of the DUP councillors actually abstained, with only two DUP and two independent unionists voting against the signs. The Council seems to have gone against the spirit, if not the letter, of its own rules. It’s something you’d expect Irish language newspaper La Nua to get annoyed about, and it does, in its balanced front page story last week. However, the headline on the splash - Baile na mbiogóidí (Town of bigots) - goes beyond ‘whataboutery’. Fighting perceived sectarianism is fair enough - but labelling the entire population of Ballymoney as bigots is counterproductive and just plain stupid. Just imagine a whole town suing a paper for defamation...!
Belfast Gonzo @ 04:52 AM
P.s. Maybe OILibhear could provide us with an Irish translation for “Wankers’ Meadow”.
Posted by on Nov 15, 2007 @ 02:00 PMRory @ 01:57 PM:
Do NOT assume this is entirely an accident.
There is an excellent tradition in English local government of planners (and the odd deviant committee member) trying to smuggle innuendo past the committee.
Hence we have “Letsby Avenue” in (I believe) Sheffield. Somewhere else Pigg Lane does the same business. Yes, both run past a police station.
Nice to see our Welsh colleagues are capable of, indeed exceed this subversion. The advantages of a (non) bilingual culture.
Posted by on Nov 15, 2007 @ 02:44 PMCluain na Tarraingtheoira (Wankers Meadow)
Posted by on Nov 15, 2007 @ 02:50 PMRory - “Halwyr” is cool but for the life of me can’t see what the council did wrong !
Posted by on Nov 15, 2007 @ 05:45 PM“but labelling the entire population of Ballymoney as bigots is counterproductive and just plain stupid”
It’s libellous, never mind “stupid”. The Irish News once labelled New Buildings on the outskirts of Londonderry as “the most sectarian village in Northern Ireland”, causing an uproar by local people. It looks like this republican rag is looking for a similar reaction…
Posted by on Nov 15, 2007 @ 06:18 PMConcerned Loyalist - Have you grown up yet ? I’m still collecting for your emmigration fund - how much Irish do you speak ?
Posted by on Nov 15, 2007 @ 06:35 PMCONCERNED LOYALIST
Republican rag? Lá Nua? Far from it - the paper has a strong Unionist columnist every Wednesday! A bhodaigh gan eolas!
DEWI
Are there many placenames of Welsh origin in the English counties that border Cymru?
Posted by on Nov 15, 2007 @ 08:25 PMSo, RGC, a Republican rag from the former Angrytown News stable with a token Unionist. Brilliant!!
Posted by on Nov 15, 2007 @ 09:19 PMNEVIN
An féidir leat an nuachtán laethúil seo a léamh go fiú?
Can you even read this daily newspaper you call a rag?
Posted by on Nov 15, 2007 @ 09:34 PMAre there many placenames of Welsh origin in the English counties that border Cymru?
Thousands,
Shall I list them from London (Llundain) and Kent (Caint) West or even Dover(Dwfr) ... a couple of parishes, Archenfield in Herefordshire and Oswestry in Shropshire, Welsh speaking till last century (Still Welsh Speaking chapels in Oswestry)
Close to the border you have direct Welsh names such as Pontrilas and Bagwyllydiart....how they pronounce the second one of those I have no idea.
Posted by on Nov 15, 2007 @ 09:48 PMI knew placenames such as London and Dover have Celtic elements but can you say they are Welsh, as we know it?
What does Dwfr mean in Cymraeg?
Posted by on Nov 16, 2007 @ 12:53 PMFlowing water !
This from Ann Griffiths:http://www.rootsweb.com/~wlsmer2/Cartrefi/dolwar.htm
Almost enough to make you religious.
Posted by on Nov 17, 2007 @ 03:37 AMRGC, the parapolitical affiliations of the Angrytown News/Belfast Media Group are hardly a closely guarded secret.
RGC and Dewi, I’m also curious about the p-Celtic and q-Celtic influences on our placenames eg where the p might have got dropped in a (mainly) q zone and where p/b and q/c forms exist together.
As you know, I’m very much an amateur in this field so maybe you could enlighten those of us who have an interest in placenames. I should think that river names and the names of religious/ritual centres are likely to be ancient, maybe even inter-related.
Let’s take Billy. It’s the name of a parish on the east bank and at the mouth of the River Bush. The name in Irish is bĂle - a venerated/sacred tree. In Norman records it’s referred to as Episcopus de Bili. The Irish for tree is crann so that made me think that Billy was related to a deity, perhaps Bel/Baal. I then thought of another religious site, Ely, and had a look at some placenames in the vicinity. I found Bele super Dedehill (dedehill - hill of the dead). Could Billy, bĂle and Bele be closely associated? What about Ely? Might there have been an earlier p form for Bele and might it have been dropped in a q-Celtic zone to yield Ely? Is there a link to peel/pele towers? Is there a common thread linking Beili-glas, Belaugh Green and Peel Green?
Posted by on Nov 17, 2007 @ 12:18 PMNevin @ 12:18 PM:
Nice thinking, and well worth pursuing.
There are numerous place-names across England which imply a pagan origin: google “pagan+place+name” for a plethora, but mainly of the Saxon and Danish periods, admittedly. Rivers are a different matter: they tend to go back to Celtic originals (and, of course, the Celts tended to associate running water with female deities, often very presciently, and often with female deities of a fairly violent disposition: Seine/Sequanna; Boyne/the Boann; Marne/Matrona).
Don’t put any money on “Ely”, however. It is simply “Eel-island”, and obviously so from its position. It is, incidentally, one of the few towns that developers haven’t quite destroyed yet. Go visiting, but not in in winter months, unless you are prepared for semi-Arctic conditions. I used to regularly change trains there (in the days of steam), and there is a wind which comes direct from the Urals.
Posted by on Nov 17, 2007 @ 12:45 PMDunno Nevin - I’m an accountant..... We have an Afon Elai - River Ely here - if that’s helpful - google it and you’ll find the Afon Elai Mosque in Cardiff !!!
Rivers are usually old and many times named after deities - Nedd - Neath after Celtic God Nudd fr’instance. I quote from Nice BBC site below:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/whatsinaname/sites/themes/pages/rivers.shtml
“Gods and goddesses in river names
The names of gods and goddesses are also very apparent in river names. The name of a battle goddess occurs in the river Aeron - aer (battle) and the suffix -on. The same suffix occurs in Aberdaron, which refers to the goddess oak (derw).There is also a divine connection in the name of river Dyfrdwy (Dee) - dwfr (water) and the element dwy(w) (goddess), as in Dwyfor, Dwyfach and the Dee in Scotland. It is likely that the goddess in questions here was Aerfen, the goddess of war. Llyn Tegid (Bala Lake) is called Llyn Aerfen in medieval literature.
It is thought that Alaunos, the name of an old Celtic god who may correspond with the Roman god Mercury, is the source of the name. It is possible that al- means winding. This element also ocurs at the beginning of the names of the rivers Aled and Alwen.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/whatsinaname/sites/placenametool/?q=Ely
On Ely I reckon Keith from Dinas Powys is on the right track LOL LOL LOL !!!
Posted by on Nov 17, 2007 @ 12:46 PMIt’s libellous, never mind “stupid”
No it isn’t. It has already been established that a libel must refer to a person or group of persons no larger than a football team.
Thus we are free to say all Man U supporters are (libel omitted), but we cannot say, for example, that the jurors in a particular court case took bribes, without exposing ourselves to civil suit.
Posted by on Nov 17, 2007 @ 02:35 PM
