Saturday, October 27, 2007
Archipelagic in thought and letter
Some archelagic poets and writers were at a convocation, a ‘gathering of voices’, in the Bodleian Library, Oxford, on 9th October to celebrate the launch of Clutag Press’ first volume of the literary magazine Archipelago. The Library also chose the occasion to launch their first series of BODcasts and because they did you can listen to what was said by all the speakers there. Among those speakers was Seamus Heaney - BODcast available directly here [mp3 file] - who quoted a wise man, fellow poet Czeslaw Milosz.
“What is articulated, strengthens. What is not articulated tends towards the non-being.”
Pete Baker @ 09:27 PM
Still not quite convinced of sufficient cultural cohesion to justify a geographic identity as an archipelago....anyone want to start a poem ?
Posted by on Oct 27, 2007 @ 10:24 PMDewi
It’s neither the topic of the post, the magazine, nor the speakers - who employ a variety of languages.
But I will point back to a couple of earlier posts.
Posted by on Oct 27, 2007 @ 10:46 PMI know - Peter - but I listened to all the stuff and not at all convinced. McNeillie’s meteorolical focus quite bizarre - myself feel much more connected to Basques, Catalans and other forgotten people than some constructed archipalegic cultural identity. But hell each to his own.
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 12:01 AMThe utter arrogance, the self-congratulation, the self-appreciation:
Couldn’t make it more stark how seperate from reality they are
Long arms are needed to pat your own back.
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 12:24 AMThe thread on Celtic identity you refer to Pete was fascinating - thank you.
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 12:40 AM“myself feel much more connected to Basques, Catalans and other forgotten people than some constructed archipalegic cultural identity.”
Telling, Dewi. But not necessarily in the manner intended.
Each to his own, indeed.
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 12:43 AMPete - no need to be clever. If you find meaning and identity in a archipelagic sense enjoy it. For myself the dominance of the primary party will always be a fundamental issue and therefore choose to identify myself outside the Empire - but again each to his own. Nos Da.
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 12:49 AMHis audience awaits,
A willing open bride.
Virginal, pretense with each delivery.
Misjudged length and misplaced laughs abide,
But he needs to look at rhythm
And the absence of a ride.
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 12:52 AMString theory
I came,
I saw,
I conkered.
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 12:58 AMI think you have something Frank...kept me out of bed for a while anyway ! Ireland’s got Talent ?
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 01:01 AMThe world of poetry
One word?
When I could use twenty?Shit!
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 01:18 AM*myself feel much more connected to Basques, Catalans and other forgotten people than some constructed archipalegic cultural identity.*
You know Dewi, I simply find that extremely hard to believe.
You’re a Welshman posting regularly on a blog about Northern Ireland yet you claim to have more affinity with minor linguistic groups in Spain, than with your fellow English speakers in these islands.
How many Basque and Catalan blogs do you comment on? I’d love to know.
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 01:30 AMNo Catalan or Basque blogs - don’t speak either. And I live on these islands. I certainly feel affinity with those at the periphary of these islands but our whole history is dominated by an imperial English adventure that I really despise - and that’s not at all racist - it’s just not mine and hate the fact I left school knowing more about Alfred, Canute, Nelson et al than my country.s historical figures.
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 01:45 AM*an imperial English adventure that I really despise*
The legacy of which has bequeathed the world the most prosperous, educated, free, democratic and healthy societies on earth, yeah it’s a real bummer alright.
So you admit your original statement about feeling more affinity with Basques and Catalans than with your fellow English speakers on these islands was pseudo smug self delusional codswallop of much the same quality as the stuff in this arty farty magazine?
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 02:55 AM.....and stole their gold,diamonds and thansported them as slaves to work on sugar plantations ;- you should have gone to specksavers-they dont sell rose tinted glasses there
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 04:48 AM“Prosporous etc.”
Like three quarters of Africa do u mean? Or the Australia aborigines ?
Perhaps I should have been clearer. Of course I relate to the celtic nations - it’s that the Arcipelagic stuff is usally England / English + some token other stuff - which correctly represents population of these islands and all well and good but not for me.Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 05:32 AMAh yes, the richest, healthiest, safest, most democratic, best educated, most free, liberal societies in the world bar none all just happen to be products of the British Empire, take the chips off your shoulders boys, anti-Englishness is so last century.
By the way Dewi weren’t some of the most expansionist kings of England actually Welsh? And remind me what principality the boys singing “Men of Harlech” as they slaughterd the Zulus at Rourke’s Drift came from?
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 08:50 AMCompletely off thread and mostly my fault:
A)No - Henry Tudor had some Welsh blood but his line soon assimilated
B) Ruling classes excellent at sending Celtic soldiers to slaughter and be slaughtered.
C) Empire’s record in Ireland.
Some of the most savage slaughter in Imperial history. The deliberate suppression of the langage.The, at best, tolerance of a famine that killed a million and halved the population.Killing Lord Mayors and innocents with impunity in in living memory. *nd after withdrawing from most of the island making the new state pay reparations.Wonderfully benign and benevolent.Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 09:58 AMAh yes, terrible, those waxy moustache twirling, top hatted Englishmen evilly cackling as they sent off the poor benighted Celts to kill the savage foe.
Christ Dewi, grow up will ye? The Welsh, Scottish and Irish were up to their bloody armpits in the race for empire, in many cases (the Scots) they were well ahead of the English, stop trying to rewrite history mate. The Celts were in there big time and they loved it. Since 1979 it has suited the Celtic Fringe to pretend that the British Empire was nothing to do with them.
It’s as convincing as listening to Austrians telling you how they were the first victims of Adolf Hitler (an Austrian).
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 10:58 AMHarry - I am slightly tongue in cheek but can’t remember the referendum for the Anchluss betweeen Wales and England..........Scots well ahead of England ? Apart from the ill-fated Darien expedition can’t recall a single Scottish Colonial adventure.
Fundamental point is not any of that but that there’s a lot of them on this archipelago and that such an identity would by neccessity be English dominated.
What’s the significance of 1979 ? We lost that one…
Seamus Heaney worth a listen by the way. (Sorry Pete)Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 11:06 AMIdeology normally dictates which geographical entity is deemed the most appropriate for National identity - for me that’s contiguous landmass - easier to justify obviously for relatively small islands rather whole continents. Presumably, Taffs/Jockstraps not so keen on that one.
What happened to the unbelievable thread about the BNP the UVF the Orientals and the Marching Prods - did I dream it or had some band decided to parade through all the Chinese returants in South Belfast whilst sinigng pro-Japanese tunes?
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 11:47 AMHarry,
I suppose you would suggest that Africans were dead keen on slavery because some of the slave organisers were African.
Dewi,
Welsh imperialist adventures will soon be again in the spotlight with the world champions in town. An opportunity for the Welsh to apologose for glorying in the slaughter of the good guys with superior weapons whilst stealing their gold. Cywilydd.
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 12:30 PM*What happened to the unbelievable thread about the BNP the UVF the Orientals and the Marching Prods - did I dream it*
I was wondering about that too but I seem to recall one of the last posts warned that a very serious allegation had been made against someone incorrectly, instead of simply deleting the relevant post it would appear the entire thread was pulled, I hate when that happens.
*I suppose you would suggest that Africans were dead keen on slavery because some of the slave organisers were African.*
Actually all the slave organisers were African - except for the Arab ones.
The British Empire, however, was the first organisation in the entire history of mankind to send its forces to fight and die to end the appalling curse of slavery, something you wouldn’t realise if all you knew about the British Empire was the dreary bilge that was taught by the products of 1970’s polytechnic Marxist history departments.
Dewi, you know little about the role of Scottish bankers, soldiers, engineers, teachers, explorers, entrepreneurs, clergymen and chancers that expanded the frontiers of the British empire if all you know is the Darien expedition, I suggest you read a little more on the subject. As regards an Anschluss between England and Wales I suggest you google “Acts of Union, 1535-42” to find out about it.
For your information in 1979, Margaret Thatcher was elected Prime Minister of the UK, and suddenly everyone started rewriting British history.
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 01:38 PMPete, I would dearly love to check out the links but these people are scaring me. I will try again after the lot of you have gone to bed. :o)
Dewi, you should be more generous. When I worked in London, I had occasion many times a day to reflect that few sentences in English could ever sound as lovely as a report of a traffic snarl on the M4 in Welsh.
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 01:55 PMSammy - It’s like £50 a ticket for a humiliation..isn’t that reparations enough. Stanley Baker couldn’t sing anyway.
Harry - I know a little about Acts of Union - hardly a voluntary process now was it.
Do you think Thatcher’s election precipitated revisionism ? Not certain of the causal effect there to be honest.
As to Scottish bankers etc. don’t deny for one minute. My point was that pre union Scotland didn’t try much colonial expansion.
I am interested in the noble British Empire’s efforts to end the curse of slavery. Any particular war ? - seem to recall some illicit support to the Confederacy.
Posted by on Oct 28, 2007 @ 01:57 PM
