Sunday, April 06, 2008
“and people will just have to be tolerant of that..”
A RTÉ report notes some of the comments by out-going Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, on the 10th anniversary of the 1998 Agreement, in an interview on RTÉ Radio’s This Week. Other points to note in the interview include Fianna Fáil “grave reservations” at amending articles 2 and 3 of De Valera’s constitution [approx 9min 20s in.] Ahern’s thanking Sinn Féin for not using posters campaigning against that constitutional change - despite having them printed [approx 11min 30s in]. And on the prospects of a united Ireland under a single administration of government - after a process that seems to echo Michael Longley’s “opposite of war”. From the clip from This Week [RealPlayer file, approx 12min 30 sec in]
“That can only happen in the long term future. How long that will be I don’t know. If it is done by any means of coercion, or divisiveness, or threats, it will never happen. We’ll stay at a very peaceful Ireland and I think time will be the healer providing people, in a dedicated way, work for the better good of everyone on the island. If it doesn’t prove possible, then it stays the way it is under the Good Friday Agreement, and people will just have to be tolerant of that if it’s not possible to bring it any further.”
Pete Baker @ 01:54 PM
Nevin,
‘Isn’t hypocrisy just wonderful? ‘
No, but in Northern Ireland politics it’s been at least consistent , political hyocrisy that is . From 1920 through 1972 the Province went through the three monkeys routine with nary a Unionist politicians eye open to any possibility of reform of the quasi fascist Unionist one party political order imposed on the large nationalist minority . From 1972 to 2007 Unionist parties were dragged screaming and kicking to various political ‘solutions’none of which stuck until the most recent and even that seems shaky enough.
Can’t you just simply face the single most important political fact of life within a 6 county NI that ‘normal’ democracy is just not going to be possible . expecting NI ever to ecome a normal democracy is the equivalent of expecting a dead baboon to compose a musical symphony during tea breaks in the Natural History Museum:((
Thus any NI ‘fudge’ solution is destined to have ‘non democratic’ elements as part of a fix. In NI’s case that means putting up with the ‘solution’ that took after all 40 years to get. As for blaming HMG for stitching up the SF/DUP deal over a UUP/SDLP one well what else would you/could you/should you expect from Albion?
Not hypocrisy surely ?
Make the best of it Nevin -it’s about as good as it will ever get IMO.
Posted by on Apr 07, 2008 @ 01:36 PMPersonally I believe that before Policing and Justice is devolved - as it surely will be - that broadcasting needs to be devolved as is being proposed in Scotland. It’s time to end the pretence that somehow someone in London knows better how to spend the licence fee fund for the entertainment and education of people in the North better than they do themselves. I say that being a non payer of the licence.
ha ha.
RTE is probably the strongest argument the unionists have got.
Posted by on Apr 07, 2008 @ 02:12 PMDewi might be on to something. If SF become the dominant power in nIreland politics, would the unionist community become more amenable to joining the republic just to reduce the influence and power that nationalists would have on their communities
Posted by on Apr 07, 2008 @ 02:58 PMGreenflag, the GFA has been altered and cherry-picked since 1998; the 50%+1 thing is a recipe for further confrontation or worse.
Posted by on Apr 07, 2008 @ 03:15 PMGreenflag, do you suppose Dublin was protecting its own butt when it facilitated the transformation of a socialist-led IRA to a ‘Catholic-Ireland’ one? In permitted the south to prosper while the north burned.
I do want us to make the best of it. That was why I proposed devolved government under shared sovereignty, the merger of strands 2 and 3 and no hiding place for the hoodlums. What’s so very undemocratic or perfidious about that?
Posted by on Apr 07, 2008 @ 03:24 PMNevin,
‘the GFA has been altered and cherry-picked since 1998’
True . Picking a few cherries will continue as will pruning a few branches but the roots and trunk will remain . SF and the DUP know that . The rest are engaging in wishful thinking -imo.
‘the 50%+1 thing is a recipe for further confrontation or worse.’
If you read what Bertie actually said in his farewell ‘interview’ you don’t have to read betwen the lines to deduce that FF are not keen on any 50% plus 1 forced ‘unity’. Bertie knows and understands that it would simply not work .Biffo likewise.
I don’t know why you are still going on about ‘Catholic” Ireland but from here it looks like most RC Churches are more than half empty on Sundays -and the average cleric seems to be 70 yrs old plus . There are few new recruits . The number one item on the papal wish list i.e the conversion of the protestant heretics of Northern Ireland and the restoration of the Duke of Bavaria to his rightful place on the British Throne when Gordon Brown repeals the Act of Settlement will have to wait . I suppose exchanging one German family for another should’nt be too much of a hiccup for our unionist monarchical forelock tugging fellow islanders:(
‘I do want us to make the best of it.’
Well so do I except don’t expect too much and you won’t be disappointed . It’s not a new dawn just another curtain raiser for the main show sometime down the line -imo.
‘That was why I proposed devolved government under shared sovereignty’
Shared sovereignty is’nt practical . Too costly -time consuming and it’s never been shown to work anywhere for any length of time . This D’Hondt nonsense is enough s**te as it is.
‘the merger of strands 2 and 3 ‘
Nevin - HMG and most Brits are just not that interested in strands 2 and 3 . Sorry but that’s the way it is .They want NI to go back to being just a quiet poor backwater with a lot of past , a peaceful present, and a politically and economically stunted future. The DUP and SF have signed up for the program .
‘no hiding place for the hoodlums’
Not even Stormont ? Come on be practical .
You should have learnt by now that politicians are the excrement by which the body politic is held together/functions . Malodorous aromas notwithstanding they (the politicians) are all that stand between a relatively peaceful bleak future for NI and another precipitous descent into further chaos .Posted by on Apr 07, 2008 @ 05:20 PMDewi
you seem to care a great deal about this part of the kingdom so just consider it as returning the favour.
I think what BonarLaw is saying is “cnycha bant: no British interference in Irish affairs.”
Posted by on Apr 07, 2008 @ 05:33 PMShared sovereignty is very practical, Greenflag. It’s almost there anyway; all it needs is for Dublin to hand over its share of the dosh!!
I used the term ‘Catholic Ireland’ as the institutions of Church and State were both threatened by the ‘commie’ revolution 40 years ago. The Cruiser gives an more insightful view of evens back then than I can.
If you think our restorative justice schemes are so good perhaps you could recommend them to Biffo!!
Posted by on Apr 07, 2008 @ 07:57 PMGreenflag
The Anglo Irish Agreement has long gone. Do keep up.
Posted by on Apr 07, 2008 @ 09:58 PMNevin ,
‘I used the term ‘Catholic Ireland’ as the institutions of Church and State were both threatened by the ‘commie’ revolution 40 years ago. ‘Were they ? Sorry Nevin in any Dail Election 40 years the ‘commies’ got perhaps a couple of hundred votes in Dublin Central . The so called ‘left’ revolution resulted in Labour retrning to the Dail with fewer seats IIRC. Ben Briscoe the FF Jewish TD and later Minister used to poll about 8,000 IIRC as against the Commies 200 or so .
Cruiser was an academic and an intellectual. He did not have his finger on the pulse of the Republic and least of all on Dublin. That’s why he lost his seat in Dublin Artane .
‘If you think our restorative justice schemes are so good ‘
I’d rather not think about them at all . They come with the NI political territory such that it is .
‘Shared sovereignty is very practical- t’s almost there anyway; all it needs is for Dublin to hand over its share of the dosh’
Sorry Nevin the dosh will be needed closer to home and Scrooge Biffo will be playing a tight hand for the next few years -he’ll want to play for a surplus come 2012. You’ll have to rely on the chuckie bros and co drumming up interest in putting money into a hole in the ground in NI .
Posted by on Apr 08, 2008 @ 08:01 PMBonar law ,
‘The Anglo Irish Agreement has long gone. Do keep up. ‘
Not quite . As the AIA states hereunder and we have yet to see ‘full’ devolution.
‘However, if a devolved government were established in Northern Ireland, matters transferred to its power would no longer fall under the remit of the conferences.
That is being seen as an inducement for unionists who want to remain part of the United Kingdom and keep Dublin at bay.
But, for the first time, the British Government has officially committed to promoting legislation for a united Ireland if a majority is in favour.
The deal has been met with anger and bitterness by the majority loyalist community in Northern Ireland.
The 15 Ulster Unionist MPs have accused Mrs Thatcher of treachery and have said they will resign unless a referendum is held on the agreement.
However, opposition leaders at Westminster have pledged their support and the government seems certain to secure a big majority when the deal comes up for approval.
Irish MPs also have to approve the agreement which will be reviewed after three years.
But don’t worry Bonar . You’re probably good for at least another 20 years of monarchical forelock tugging :)
Posted by on Apr 08, 2008 @ 08:14 PMGreenflag
Why are you quoting from a defunct agreement? Check out Article 3.
As I said, do keep up.
Posted by on Apr 08, 2008 @ 09:07 PM
