Sunday, April 06, 2008
“and people will just have to be tolerant of that..”
A RTÉ report notes some of the comments by out-going Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, on the 10th anniversary of the 1998 Agreement, in an interview on RTÉ Radio’s This Week. Other points to note in the interview include Fianna Fáil “grave reservations” at amending articles 2 and 3 of De Valera’s constitution [approx 9min 20s in.] Ahern’s thanking Sinn Féin for not using posters campaigning against that constitutional change - despite having them printed [approx 11min 30s in]. And on the prospects of a united Ireland under a single administration of government - after a process that seems to echo Michael Longley’s “opposite of war”. From the clip from This Week [RealPlayer file, approx 12min 30 sec in]
“That can only happen in the long term future. How long that will be I don’t know. If it is done by any means of coercion, or divisiveness, or threats, it will never happen. We’ll stay at a very peaceful Ireland and I think time will be the healer providing people, in a dedicated way, work for the better good of everyone on the island. If it doesn’t prove possible, then it stays the way it is under the Good Friday Agreement, and people will just have to be tolerant of that if it’s not possible to bring it any further.”
Pete Baker @ 01:54 PM
The Economist’s take on 10 years of GFA.
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 03:40 PMAsolutely wonderful tthat Sinn Fein printed posters against changing the constitution….they negotiated the deal!
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 04:14 PMThe precoccupation of Unionists with these articles allowed the British government to pressurise unionists into acceptance of the GFA. Articles 2 and 3 were valueless and swapped for a constitutional say for ROI in affairs of Non Iron.
Dewi,
I have the pleasure of reminding you we are now quits - as Munster are still in the HC and Ospreys are not. It’s a real shame as the semi final at millennium would have been a cracker.
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 07:54 PMYeah Sammy what a disappointment. That bit of a fluke straight after half time a real blow…........but I don’t care - a life long Cardiff City fan.
“I never felt like singing the Blues when Cardiff win and Swansea lose….”
A Grand slam and an FA Cup here we go!!!
(blasted soccer so boring couldn’t even watch all the game…)Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 07:57 PMOn topic More from the Economist
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 08:07 PM‘The precoccupation of Unionists with these articles allowed the British government to pressurise unionists into acceptance of the GFA. Articles 2 and 3 were valueless and swapped for a constitutional say for ROI in affairs of Non Iron. ‘
Absolutely true . Unionist politicians were always suckers for the ‘written’ word . Probably comes from the myriad of interpretations/interpreters of what some desert philsopher meant by ‘begat’ or ‘begot’ or the visions /revelations in biblical tracts etc etc . Meanwhile the real world just passed them by and will continue to do so .
Bertie and Albert always knew that Articles 2 and 3 were paper tigers . Unionists believed Papa Doc would save them from the Fenians sharing power . Now I ask yiz who was the winner ?
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 08:39 PM“Now I ask yiz who was the winner ?”
Albert - gone; Bertie and Ian - going, going ...
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 08:57 PM“Bertie Ahern has said each of his Fianna Fáil cabinet colleagues <b>broke down in tears</a> when he told them he was stepping down as party leader.” BBC
lmao
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 09:10 PM“Now I ask yiz who was the winner ?”
The unionists?
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 09:57 PMA couple of quick points.
Articles 2 and 3 are only mentioned, by Ahern, in reference to the reaction from Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin.
And the main topic of the post is the quote from Ahern on what will be required to achieve a united Ireland.. and what will act to prevent it.
Now, have we any evidence that any particular parties are adopting Longley’s “opposite of war” approach?
Or is there evidence that any particular parties are simply carrying on as before?
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 10:07 PMIsee in the Corrections in today’s Letters of the Sunday Times that Niall O’Dowd nails the lie that he said “Adams must go”. It’s surprising to find Liam Clarke getting it wrong!
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 10:13 PMYes Pete but as you know too well yourself we are awaiting the devolution of policing and justice to get to that point…given the implementation of the GFA it will probably take around another 3 years.
Though, it was probably agreed as such last year between the DUP and SF for it to happen 3 years in, the rest is just grandstanding to save face on former belligerent policy, save seats and blow trumpets to settle the constituencies while the big parties consolidate power. Am I too cynical?
Thing is, though, I am not a DUP-SF voter and would just wish they would get on with it, justice too. Why wait, the families need it and we need to move on just like you are suggesting.
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 10:19 PMNo, DC.
That particular part of devolution is likely to form a part of Longley’s approach.
But the repeated claims of public commitments that never existed don’t help. In fact, they actively work against it.
I’m not, btw, suggesting that we “need to move on”.. rather that we need to pay attention to the detail as we move on.
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 10:28 PM2016? Anybody… anybody?
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 10:40 PM2016 anybody ? - I still think it’s on and it’s from the “unionists” the pressure will come…we’ll see.
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 11:00 PMThere hasn’t been much detail in this process, even when you consider the point when Paisley turned up at the Assembly and said “certainly not madam speaker”; after that the then transitional-speaker, Eileen Bell said that Paisley had agreed to nominate. SF then of course went on to get an assurance of backing the police from party members if policing and justice were devolved. Paisley and Adams sat down thereafter and the smiling Martin joined at his hip in May 07.
We still await devolved PJ, so Sinn Fein are in a halfway house, they are on the Policing Board, they issue strong statements backing support for the police encouraging people to come forward and talk too; however, in the detail, the party’s previous Ard Fheis set in 07 would indicate otherwise. So while there is detail certain actions, as shown in two examples above, prove incongruous to that ‘detail’.
Why give a shit for detail now Pete whenever there hasn’t been much of it for the last ten years. And we have indeed moved on due to the overwhelming need to. This need would appear to rest outside of the Assembly away from the elite ‘face-savers’, the need is in the minds of the public who are awaiting further progress, as polls go to show and the 71% who backed the GFA 10 years ago.
Even Paisley now knows the people have truly spoken. This stance after he got his majority of course but the hint is the ‘extremes’ are somewhat up for it now. Some aren’t, so let Jim Allister take the split from that difference and perhaps the UUP can come back next time round if they can find anyone who can actually stand them and thus stand for them!
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 11:06 PMDewi
given your expressed views on unionists and unionism I suggest what you present as insight is really wisful thinking. As you say, we’ll see.
For what it’s worth, my prediction for 2016 is an intact UK without primary lawmaking powers in Cardiff Bay.
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 11:37 PMDC
If you want to talk about P&J, in particular, then I suggest you do it on an appropriate post.
Btw, your detail points to one of the problems on that issue.
“Why give a shit for detail now..”?
Well, I’ve always given a shit for detail.. even if no-one else has.
Ask Dewi about the need to pay attention to detail - “2016 anybody ? - I still think it’s on and it’s from the ‘unionists’ the pressure will come…we’ll see.”
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 11:40 PM“For what it’s worth, my prediction for 2016 is an intact UK without primary lawmaking powers in Cardiff Bay.”
Do you care, Bonar Law , about what we decide? Is the fate of Wales a pressing issue for you ? Delighted you are taking an interest!
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 11:42 PMDewi
you seem to care a great deal about this part of the kingdom so just consider it as returning the favour.
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 11:47 PMBL - I was not being nasty - really pleased you are taking an interest - sorry if I sounded sarky…
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 11:52 PMNos da, Dewi.
Posted by on Apr 06, 2008 @ 11:58 PMPersonally I believe that before Policing and Justice is devolved - as it surely will be - that broadcasting needs to be devolved as is being proposed in Scotland. It’s time to end the pretence that somehow someone in London knows better how to spend the licence fee fund for the entertainment and education of people in the North better than they do themselves. I say that being a non payer of the licence.
Posted by on Apr 07, 2008 @ 09:46 AM-
“Part of the price paid for peace is that, if you are a democratic statesman and peacemaker, receipt of funds not fully accounted for some time ago may act as more of an impediment to continuing to hold high office than it would if you were a former paramilitary leader turned politician and minister, regardless of acts once authorised or committed.
Such is the tariff set by the ethical high priests of our society. ..
Ahern’s refusal to contemplate Sinn Fein in government arose, not just from party political considerations, the paramilitary past, or even present policy differences, but from a horror of the whole sphere of government policy being held hostage to constant hardballing tactics on too many issues.”
Isn’t hypocrisy just wonderful? Confine the plague of paramilitarism to the north at any cost to democracy [ditto Blair’s nimbyism]
Posted by on Apr 07, 2008 @ 10:16 AM Nevin,
‘Albert - gone; Bertie and Ian - going, going ‘True but the GFA remains and will remain . So to will the Anglo Irish Agreement .
Posted by on Apr 07, 2008 @ 02:07 PM
