Saturday, February 09, 2008
An end to Northern Irish banknotes..?
COULD the fallout from the Northern Rock fiasco lead to the demise of Northern Irish banknotes? See below the fold to find out why we might be saying goodbye to our local Sterling notes…
Banks in Northern Ireland and Scotland produce their own Sterling notes, but SNP leader Alex Salmond fears they could disappear if Treasury proposals to protect customer from failing financial institutions go ahead.
Apparently, banks that print Scottish notes have to lodge funds with the Bank of England to cover their value, but only for three days of the week – the other four days they can be invested elsewhere, gaining millions of pounds in interest. The Treasury wants to see them lodged there all week instead.
In the wake of the Chancellor’s announcement of reforms, Clydesdale Bank admitted it might stop issuing Scottish banknotes, as they might not “be viable in the future”. I can’t imagine any of the local banks wanting to give up these millions either. Salmond reckons the changes could cost the Scottish and Northern Irish banks which issue their own notes a total of £100 million a year.
In response, a Scottish Labour MP has called for the Bank of England to be renamed the Bank of the United Kingdom and for United Kingdom banknotes to be introduced as legal tender.
This would certainly bring an end to the confused look of English retailers when you hand them a Bank of Ireland (Sterling) banknote, and the annoyance of the customer when his legal tender is inevitably refused.
However, another Scottish Labour MP might disagree - former Northern Ireland minister Des Browne told the House of Commons recently that he has “been in London a great deal over the past 11 years, and in connection with my ministerial responsibilities have periodically had Northern Ireland banknotes in my wallet. No one has ever refused to accept one of them”.
Yer arse, Des! So have I, and I can’t remember the last time one was accepted.
Belfast Gonzo @ 03:19 AM
...and the mask slips even further…
Posted by on Feb 09, 2008 @ 08:53 PMgreat retort.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2008 @ 09:02 PMWell your argument seems to go “esme, you referred to GB once as the mainland, therefore you’re not Irish.”
As debating positions go, it’s not great is it?
I’m comfortable with my heritage, you seem to be very threatened by other viewpoints.
If you wanted to debate the substance of the rest of my post, I’d be happy to oblige but I think you’d better leave that to the brains of the outfit, lib or Chris or someone. Go back to the pub and your rebel songs and Orga mates and leave the debating to the grown-ups eh?
Posted by on Feb 09, 2008 @ 09:09 PMThat should of course be Ogra.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2008 @ 09:10 PMJoe Holt
A good case for Eurus.
Roll on the day, even better in my opinion, I do a fair bit of traveling and for this and business reasons the Euro would suit me nicely.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2008 @ 09:22 PMwhere did i say your not irish?????
i merely question the wisdom of saying your an irishman but then claiming Ireland isn’t your mainland?
it seems it is you who feels threatened. and im not a big drinker, actaully off the devil’s buttermilk for lent. and as regards brains.....saying your irish, but its not your mainland aint very smart is it?uncircle the wagons and cut the strings.
P.S never had much time for those Ogra fellows.....too rowdy !
Posted by on Feb 09, 2008 @ 09:38 PMThe mainland is Europe and the wider world beckons our youth on to further awe and wonder. I’m all for travel to the point where if there was a way to make it compulsory I could be convinced but to tie ourselves and out children to two remote islands on the edge of a part of the world which will never again reach the heights it has in the past? It seems crazy to me.
I suppose it’s good that other cultures are coming here at last but can’t help feeling that it would be better for us to see Arab or other cultures in their home setting. The incredible anti-Muslim feeling on some threads would make anyone who has met Arab generosity and honesty in their own homes weep.
The tiny little disagreement between two practically identical groups here is taken out of all proportion partly just because we have been so monocultural.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2008 @ 09:43 PMThe “brain drain” is probably about university selection as much as anything. We certainly had a “mainland” attitude to this in my day . The UCCA and PCAS (yes that old) processes completely dominated the system - I can’t remember anything in the careers room referring potential candidates to ROI universities. Some adventurous types made it to Trinity but I don’t know anyone who went to UCD, Cork or Galway.
Anybody have any idea what the current situation is? Are we doing more nowadays to make more prospective university students aware of Irish options?
Posted by on Feb 09, 2008 @ 10:45 PM“’m all for travel to the point where if there was a way to make it compulsory I could be convinced”
Young folks are crazy not to take a gap year between leaving school/college/university and starting work.
Posted by on Feb 09, 2008 @ 11:29 PM“John F, I do know exactly what the mainland is, i live on it !”
What, you live in France, or the Netherlands or something?
Posted by on Feb 10, 2008 @ 02:08 AMGet rid of the Northern Irish notes. I live on the mainland too and it does my head in every-time; feeling almost like a criminal as the shop assistant in question pores over this strange note I’ve given her and has to call up the manager to see if she can accept it.
The day I feel sorry for any of the banks cos they aren’t making as much money as they used to is the day I cease breathing. For instance, the Bank of Scotland and the Ulster Bank have made a packet out their entitlement to literally print money - e.g. the fortunes they each amassed from the sale of George Best and Jack Nicklaus fivers - where essentially they printed images on some worthless bits of paper and charged the public £5 each for them - knowing full well that a very small percentage of those notes will ever actually be exchanged for goods and services, thus making the banks a tidy wee profit for doing very little.
Posted by on Feb 10, 2008 @ 09:54 AMFrom the Bank of England website, apropos the substance of the main debate,as opposed to the MOPEing.
Are Scottish & Northern Irish notes legal tender?
In short ‘No’ these notes are not legal tender; only Bank of England notes are legal tender but only in England and Wales.
The term legal tender does not in itself govern the acceptability of banknotes in transactions. Whether or not notes have legal tender status, their acceptability as a means of payment is essentially a matter for agreement between the parties involved. Legal tender has a very narrow technical meaning in relation to the settlement of debt. If a debtor pays in legal tender the exact amount he owes under the terms of a contract, he has good defence in law if he is subsequently sued for non-payment of the debt. In ordinary everyday transactions, the term ‘legal tender’ has very little practical application.Posted by on Feb 10, 2008 @ 12:24 PMPeople who get all uptight about words like “mainland” or “the North” really need to get the hell out and get themselves a life. I use both terms all the time. For god’s sake get over it.
Could you please explain about &1;coins being the only legal tender.
Not much to explain. Only £1 coins are legal tender. In other words, any creditor in Northern Ireland or Scotland can lawfully refuse to accept anything other than £1 coins in settlement of a debt.
I had an interesting run in with the rates collection agency once , when I turned up with &500;in in individual £20 value bags coins as part of a payment for my rates bill , which they refused to take .
I am not a lawyer, but based on the concept of legal tender, they broke the law, and you could have sued them in court and won.
So I asked for a letter stating that I had come to pay my bill , but as they had a policy of £20 ceiling on amount of coins that they accepted they could not accept my offer of payment .
Strictly speaking, not lawful, AFAIK.
When I explained that I intended to let them take me to court ,and I was looking forward with interest as to how the judge would view things they quickly changed their minds ,and took the coins .
Needless to say that was the way they got it on every occasion after that!.Yeah. You may think you’re being a smartarse, but in practice some employee in the rates collection agency is having to count all your money and lodge it. That employee is paid out of the NI budget .. so, in the wider scheme of things, you’re screwing the taxpayer. Why don’t you stop being a jerk and settle your rates bills the way normal people do ? Take your coins to the fecking bank like most people do. It’s less effort for you and the RCA.
I don’t mind Elizabeth but I don’t really want a pocket full of Prince Charles.
happy lundy, I think most countries in the world have images of present or past heads of state on their coinage, and I don’t see this changing here.
Posted by on Feb 10, 2008 @ 12:25 PM“I think most countries in the world have images of present or past heads of state on their coinage, and I don’t see this changing here.”
Really?
When did/does Ronald Reagan appear on the US dollar?
Or De Gaulle on the French euro?
Or Kohl on the German euro?
How about a bit of imagination?
Elizabeth is also Queen of Canada.
She makes it into one side of one note.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banknotes_of_the_Australian_dollar
Posted by on Feb 10, 2008 @ 03:25 PMI think I’m right in saying that BoE notes aren’t the only legal tender - I think that stamps and postal orders are too.
Posted by on Feb 10, 2008 @ 03:27 PM“Elizabeth is also Queen of Canada.”
Ah…
I meant Queen of Australia of course…
Although…
http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/banknotes/general/character/2001-04_100.html
Only on one side of one note here also - the $20.
Posted by on Feb 10, 2008 @ 03:59 PMPeople who get all uptight about words like “mainland” or “the North” really need to get the hell out and get themselves a life. I use both terms all the time. For god’s sake get over it.
I live in Britain which like Ireland is an island surrounded by the sea. If I wish to travel to the mainland I can go to St Pancras station and get on a train to Paris or Brussels. People who say mainland when referring to Britian spend too much time watching the British Propaganda Service, a.k.a the BBC. London has not, is not and never will be the centre of the universe - no matter what the ex-public school boys and Oxbridge types who inhabit the British establishment may think.
If I buy something at Aldergrove before flying back to the land of Sasana I tell the cashier to forget the Mickey Mouse money and give me pictures of the Queen for i can’t get enough of this lady in my wallet.
Posted by on Feb 10, 2008 @ 04:24 PMesmereldavillalobos
You have my utter sympathy.
I don’t think many of them realise just how petty they sound with their mantras, hang ups and pet phrases which mean lots to them (and woe is you if you misuse them) and bugger all to virtually the rest of humanity. Could the behavour be termed psychotic or is it some deeply ingrained inferiority complex? Wish they would all join the flat earth society.
We all know what you mean, and I for one feel in no way insulted or demeaned. It is merely a form of expression inoffensively meant but our proud Irish lads have to take offense just to show they are awake.
I think they should travel more.
Posted by on Feb 10, 2008 @ 05:55 PMWhen did/does Ronald Reagan appear on the US dollar?
I very carefully said “past or present heads of state”. US coins all have former heads of state on them, and I think the banknotes do too.
Or De Gaulle on the French euro?
Or Kohl on the German euro?
How about a bit of imagination?
Beatrix is on the Dutch euro. None of the above two countries have monarchies :)
Elizabeth is also Queen of Canada.
Posted by on Feb 10, 2008 @ 08:17 PMComrade Stalin (to Biff1) - “Why don’t you stop being a jerk and settle your rates bills the way normal people do ? Take your coins to the fecking bank like most people do. It’s less effort for you and the RCA.”
Hear Hear! Can you imagine the frustration of other people waiting to pay their bills when ‘Metal Mickey’ turns up with his coins!
Posted by on Feb 10, 2008 @ 09:20 PM“Elizabeth is also Queen of Canada.”
Thank-you Comrade. Knew that - but as I’d linked to Australia’s currency it seemed a bit irrelevant in the first comment.
Which is why I linked to Canada in the second.
Just wanted to show that other dominions are able to afford the monarchy an appropriate amount of respect (in currency decoration terms) as part of their constitution (dignified or otherwise) without entirely smothering their currency with royalist kitsch.
Posted by on Feb 10, 2008 @ 10:00 PMDear God, P&J;has cracked it. The Bank of England becomes the UK Central Bank or UK Issuing Authority and the notes get regionalised in exactly the same way the £1.00 coins are- I’ve never had a NI coin rejected anywhere in the rest of the country. One common side with the monarch and regionalism run riot on the other. The devolved institutions on £5’s (Stormont, Holyrood, Senedd) landmarks on £10’s (Giants’ Causeway, Aurthurs’ Seat, Gower) etc, etc.
Any thoughts on a fistfull of “Juniors”?
Posted by on Feb 10, 2008 @ 10:15 PMPeaceandJustice’s idea seems like a good starter. How about we get a petition up on http://petitions.pm.gov.uk to get this mickey mouse money out of circulation?
Posted by on Feb 10, 2008 @ 11:09 PMSorry - coming a bit late to this - I’ve never allowed a retailer in the UK to turn down a Northern Irish note.
That is to say, I’ve never lost a stand-off…
:-)
Posted by on Feb 11, 2008 @ 12:36 AMThe answer to the problem is obvious and hardly anyone has mentioned it here - join the euro as soon as possible.
Posted by on Feb 11, 2008 @ 08:51 AM
