Tuesday, August 07, 2007

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1. >>As for your point about getting to the airport by car. What about those visiting NI who don’t have a car there? And what about people who don’t have a car?<<

   Thats not enough people to make a business case for a station at the international airport. Don’t forget busses are also public transport and are more flexible and as environmentally friendly as trains.

   The whole train debate is based on the fact that other cities have train links to their airports so we should have one as well. In these cities/countries the airport train links into a city/country wide rail network. We don’t have that or have the population to justify that sort of investment in rail.

   We should be investing in our road network and improving our bus network.

   Posted by  on Aug 08, 2007 @ 11:14 AM

2. I am all for the bus network. In fact it was me who started this discussion with a call for a bus to go from Airport to Antrim Translink Station so one can catch a bus or train from there. That said as a regular user of NIR services, its obvious that they are overcongested and underinvested in and cover some very useful routes.

   Posted by  on Aug 08, 2007 @ 11:24 AM

3. >>That said as a regular user of NIR services, its obvious that they are overcongested and underinvested in and cover some very useful routes.<<

   Are you within walking distance of a station?

   I’m all for improving the rail network where a clear business and/or environmental case can be made. I just don’t think a station at Aldergrove can make that case.

   Posted by  on Aug 08, 2007 @ 11:38 AM

4. Limerick has no MPs!

   Posted by  on Aug 08, 2007 @ 12:23 PM

5. Easyjet did more for the Union than Ian Paisley, so it will be a rich irony to have Aer Lingus finish the job of building an economy of these islands.

   The last thing I want to do after sitting on a plane for a few hours is sit on a noisy wee bus for another 40 minutes, or two or three hours when coming from Dublin Airport.

   With trains you can get up and walk about, a nice change.  We should get a life and get a direct train to Aldergrove, providing ‘rail’ competition to Dublin Airport.

   Posted by  on Aug 08, 2007 @ 06:02 PM

6. spending most of your wages on parking.  In Manchester you might manage it, and in Brum it’s a piece of piss - what the Luftwaffe didn’t flatten in 1940, the planners flattened in the ‘60s to build dual carriageways.  And all these cities are bigger and older than Belfast.

   Sammy, I have had to commute from the centre of Solihull to the environs of the airport in Birmingham. During peak time, which is between around 8:30 and 9:30 in the morning, it takes about 45 minutes. It would never take that long in Belfast, unless there was an accident. Yes, there are lots of nice swish roads around there, but in the mornings they’re jam-packed, much worse than Belfast.

   slug:

   Certainly more light rail in Belfast makes sense esp using the old Comber line out the Newtownards road.

   I would be in favour of a tram system there along the old BCDR Comber line, and not the stupid misguided bus system that they’re talking about - I think given the density of the area and the fact that it is an arterial route, mean that it would be quite successful. However, like Luas in Dublin, it has to be accepted that a large proportion of the ridership would be poached from the bus services, which are actually not too bad along the Newtownards Road.

   Aquifier:

   With trains you can get up and walk about, a nice change.  We should get a life and get a direct train to Aldergrove, providing ‘rail’ competition to Dublin Airport.

   You don’t seem to be understanding the core point here. Few people would use a station at Aldergrove because there wouldn’t be a frequent service.
   The express bus to Belfast would still get to Great Victoria Street more quickly.

   Posted by  on Aug 08, 2007 @ 06:54 PM

7. SC -
   “You don’t seem to be understanding the core point here. Few people would use a station at Aldergrove because there wouldn’t be a frequent service.”

   A good point - and similar to one you made in reply to my post. so I looked at a couple of airports - Newcastle has a train service running every 7 minutes during the peak - so 40 minutes is far too long - needs to 15ish. 

   Birmingham Airport does about 10m passengers a year currently (where Belfast aspires to be) and again has a rail link.  The largest GB airport that is any distance from the city it is named after, and that does not have a rail link, is Bristol, as far as I know - even Cardiff has one.

   Getting to Belfast from the aiport is not a bind now I agree - but with double the passengers as per the Airports business plan - the time will come when the express bus will not get there as quickly as rail. But it does need the right investment vehicle and the right operator.

   Slug -
   “In fact it was me who started this discussion with a call for a bus to go from Airport to Antrim Translink Station so one can catch a bus or train from there”

   Agree - and it should be free - but there is no incentive for the airport to do this when they can
   make money from car-parking fees. Again I would link expansion to provision of public transport - and let that priciple drive any planning consent.

   For the airport, the break to growth in the long term is likely to be lack of rail infrastructure -
   and I think the acknowledge that in the plan.

   Posted by  on Aug 08, 2007 @ 07:57 PM

8. Sammy, I have had to commute from the centre of Solihull to the environs of the airport in Birmingham.

   You need to do the Inner City dual-carriageway box which (in my limited experience) flows fairly well even in the morning rush.  But then again the Brummies bulldozed a dozen viable inner-city communities to build it which, to my mind, is a price not worth paying.

   Did you ever see the original 1960s plans for Belfast’s Inner Ring Road?  Six free flowing lanes with grade-seperated junctions along the Westlink from Broadway to York Street, over the river roughly along the alignment of the M3, and thence to Donegall Pass, Shaftesbury Square and up to Broadway again.  Nice, but worth demolishing half the New Lodge, the Short Strand, the Lower Ormeau, the Lower Ravenhill, the Donegall Pass and Sandy Row to build?  I don’t think so.

   Posted by Sammy Morse on Aug 09, 2007 @ 01:16 AM

9. >>A good point - and similar to one you made in reply to my post. so I looked at a couple of airports - Newcastle has a train service running every 7 minutes during the peak - so 40 minutes is far too long - needs to 15ish. <<

   Newcastle airport link is integrated into it’s metro system. Belfast doesn’t have a metro/rail equivalent. 

   I know why don’t we build a monorail, better still a bullet train going from Aldergrove to Belfast every 2 minutes. Who cares that traffic is at a standstill everwhere else.

   Posted by  on Aug 09, 2007 @ 09:19 AM

10. Gram -

    Fair point - but the marginal business case for building a mono rail vs using infrastructure already there would likely fail.

    Once in Belfast there is still rail links, and a bus system to plug into. It is embryonic but any rail link is better than ten of thousands of additional car journeys along road infrastructure.

    A useful line is in place - I want to see a plan to use it - Along with a link to BIA, the line scould support (with additional investment) a direct Derry/Ballymena to Dublin service without having to go through Belfast. Indeed where such a service to serve Drogheda & Dundalk it frees up the Enterprise service to be non-stop to compete with the car and take other journeys off the A1/M1 link.

    I would prefer to see an over-arching body planning this over 10-15 yrs plus -but to have a link mostly in place and not use it, let the airport grow to the point where is does become a problem is exactly, why the piecemeal approach does not work (and one of the main criticisms of the direct rule lot)

    Posted by  on Aug 09, 2007 @ 10:13 AM

11. Shannon directors need to forcus their energies on talks with virgin atlantic, bmi, british airways, airfrance (who operatre lcy - dub routes) there must be a party interested for the same business reasons that aer lingus is apparently moving to belfast for. The snn-lhr is a very important route for the entire midewest of ireland.

    Once the route is open the midwest regions (total combined boards of various sorts ranging from tourism to business) should combine their energies and sew the irish government for allowing this to happen and the for the loss of possible revenue, continued economic growth and drop in air passengers to the midwest.

    aerlingus strategy leaves a lot to be desired, it could of course have purchased three new planes or reviewed timetables/ frequency of flights from DUB, That would have been in the interest of all regions of the country and would have offered opportunities to grow all three regions.

    Posted by michael c on Aug 10, 2007 @ 08:06 PM

12. “The Minister for Transport has ruled out Government intervention in the Aer Lingus - Shannon row.

    Noel Dempsey said while the move was not in line with Government policy on regional development, the company is entitled to make commercial decisions.”

    http://breaking.tcm.ie/ireland/mhcwmhauqlmh/

    Posted by  on Aug 11, 2007 @ 09:37 AM
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