Tuesday, August 07, 2007
Aer Lingus transfers from Shannon to Belfast
The announcement that Aer Lingus is to introduce flights from Belfast International to Amsterdam, Barcelona and Geneva in December, and Heathrow in January, had been expected (see first comment here) although, as I understand it, Aer Lingus were required to inform the stock exchange before any public statement was made. First Minister Ian Paisley and junior minister Gerry Kelly will be at hand to bask in the publicity welcome the news but other ministers there are not so happy and Aer Lingus are meeting with workers at Shannon. Simon of The Dossing Times adds some thoughts at Irish Election while the Limerick Blogger is updating on the fly.. so to speak. Adds All politics is, indeed, local. More The official welcome. Update Whilst the junior minister, Sinn Féin’s Gerry Kelly, officially welcomed the announcement there appears to be a difference of opinion within the party ranks - “Aer Lingus decision will boost local economy” and, in another example of local politics, “Aer Lingus’s decision is a direct result of privatisation”
Pete Baker @ 10:19 AM
GLC: “1. The incident was both appalling and amusing. The fact that the public are virtually strip-searched to board a flight to England is nothing short of scandalous. The fact that this practice is carried out to prevent religious fanatics exploding themselves in an entirely wrong-headed and preposterous cause speaks volumes for the human condition. “
Tell me about it… as a financial professional, I travel a great deal. I have a fairly bland name—painfully WASP-ish, ironically enough and both given and surname are dead common, if one believes the Book of Lists. I think I am batting about .500 on the allegedly random “supplementary security search” for flying.
I think the worst, however, was a trip to Miami in the month immediately following 9/11—the FLA NG was patrolling the airport in fire-teams of four—three rifles and a SAW.
GLC: “2. Whilst I personally felt that this individual was fool-hardy in voicing what many were no doubt thinking, the security person’s response (’could you please moderate your language sir’) appeared to take objection more with the F word than the slight on the Muslim faith. “
That would perhaps have to do with the fact that, at least in recent years, when something goes *BOOM*, there happens to be a Musselman in the vicinity. Darfur, Somalia, Chechnya, Bali, New York City, London, Madrid. The hits, as they say, just keep on coming.
What is truly amusing, however, is when some of their organizations, packed with HAMAS and Hizbollah sympathizers and supporters, get their back up and decide to sue—apparently, the process of discovery does not exist in the Islamic world and more than a few of these fellows were appalled to discover just how far the process goes.
On the other hand, its not the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard coming out of an airport security check, either.
Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 02:55 PM“Antrim isn’t far away and its got the train station”
The deep irony is of course that the railway line runs past both the “Belfast” airports without stopping at either. Crap beyond words.
Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 02:59 PMActually, the train line runs within a half-mile of all THREE Northern Ireland airports, and stops at none of them ....
Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 03:47 PMIt would be interesting to count how many Republic passport holders live within 1 hr drive of BFS as opposed to SNN. Sinn Fein having its cake and eating it would look odd if it were any other airport but wasn’t it the case that many of Shannon Town’s residents used to be residents of NI pre-1960s?
Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 03:55 PMGavBelfast: “Actually, the train line runs within a half-mile of all THREE Northern Ireland airports, and stops at none of them .... “
Happens… and for a variety of reasons. Infrastructure is built on the assumptions of the day, usually with only a very narrow view of the future. Without knowing a few more specifics, I can only work in generalities—but flying was until recently (at least as infrastructure looks at time) not really the common man’s way of getting about. Throw in the back-scratching deals the such inconvenience makes possible—cab companies, “limo” companies, off-site parking facilities, air-port long term parking, etc., all with a vested interest in maintaining that level of inconvenience.
Just because something makes sense doesn’t mean the status quo is likely to embrace it.
Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 03:56 PMInfrastructure is built on the assumptions of the day, usually with only a very narrow view of the future.
It’s worse than that, DC. The train used to stop next to Belfast City - but then they moved the terminal a mile away!
Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 05:17 PMThere is an all-pervading melancholia down here in Limerick.
Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 05:21 PMSammy Morse: “It’s worse than that, DC. The train used to stop next to Belfast City - but then they moved the terminal a mile away! “
I think I was happier with the generalities.
One wonders what the rationale (I can’t call it “logic” in good conscience...) for that change.
On the other hand, this sort of stupidity in near-universal—the tales of building NYC’s “train to the plane” are sufficient to make one blanche—too many stakeholders, just like too many cooks, can really make a mess of things.
Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 05:24 PM“It’s worse than that, DC. The train used to stop next to Belfast City - but then they moved the terminal a mile away! “
They also closed the rail line that runs 700 yrds from the terminal at Belfast Int..
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&tab=wl&q;=
- and in Derry one of the saftey reasons given for the recent closure was the trains running over the end of the runway!
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&tab=wl&q;=
In this case it would have cost little at the time to build the terminal next to the railway track…
One of the things they got right in the south is an overarhing transport plan - http://www.tranport21.ie - it wouldn’t have help in the North…
Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 05:47 PMIn a recent NI Assembly debate the Minister for Regional Dvpt (Conor Murphy) told the house that it only becomes viable to build a rail link to an airport when it handles 100m passengers per year. (Heathrow handles 70m).
David Ford had to correct him - the correct figure is 10m, and that’s when you have to build the entire track de novo. In Aldergrove’s case, we will soon be at 6m, the track is already there, so the case is there.
Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 06:01 PMSlug - agree the case looks strong - especially when you take out the cars/cabs and buses using up the capacity being added to on the M2.
Also taking that thinking a bit further - given that the rail line in goes within touching distance of Dublin, and the recently closed line is very close to Aldergrove - it it too much to dream of the investment being put into additional junction at Lisburn/signalling and line, to actually link both airports - even in 10 yrs time - and also enable a direct Derry to Dublin (via Coleraine, Ballymena, Newry) rail link - (yes, it is too much to dream of) - in the meantime this is good business by Aer Lingus.
Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 06:38 PMActually both SF statements are quite similar so no difference of opinion within the party. The new Belfast routes are very welcome but they didn’t need to be at the expense of the Irish mid-west. Limerick City has the highest unemployment in the south and huge pockets of poverty and social deprivation. (I should know -I live in Moyross) Aer Lingus have @ least 2 slots leased at Heathrow and could easily have taken 2 slots from their almost 20 daily Dublin -Heathrow if needed. Best of luck to Belfast.
Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 07:12 PMI wish there was a flight to Munich from Belfast. Getting to southern Germany in general seems to be tricky enough ..
Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 07:25 PMRegarding railway links to airports, I don’t think a station at Aldergrove or Belfast would be heavily subscribed. It’s not that people don’t like trains; it’s that the service on the lines isn’t frequent or predictable enough, and this is a point that politicians often overlook - putting the infrastructure for a rail connection in place is relatively easy; subsidizing the railway to provide a frequent and reliable link is not.
The other thing that the rail link needs is to be right at the terminal building, or to have some kind of an easy way of getting to it.
Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 07:33 PMComrade Stalin,
Those sorts of (valid) infrastrural points you make seem to be lost on advocates of the Maze plan, you know, the one that has new slip roads to and from the M1 and A1, rail spurs, loads of new trains, etc, taking everyone there and back efficiently.
;-)
Back to airports, the Sydenham halt is a joke - it would be very sensible and inexpensive to have a new halt opposite the new terminal building with a below surface walkway to and from the new terminal, you would have thought the over-spend on the line could have accommodated it!
Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 07:48 PMComrade Stalin -
1) lets start by proposing that wouldn’t neet to be run by the goons at Translink - why not privatise it - better still as the line is currently closed but in working order - run it as a light rail service.
2) Aldergrove looks like it will grow - the 15 yr plan talks to 10m passengers - this means than current long stay parking will need to become short/mid stay, and long stay parking moved so moving the line a bit towards the terminal is not impossible.
3) Charge a ÂŁ1 levey per passenger - this give ÂŁ6m
per annum - which is a decent subsidy in anyones books - and aiports should not be allowed to grow
without some capacity for public tansport.“Subsidizing the railway to provide a frequent and reliable link is not” - fair comment - I suggest that on top of the subsidy above - there is the operating revenue - it currenlty cost ÂŁ9 return on ulsterbus from belfast to aldergrove - so thats the benchamerk for the train service to beat.
The trick is to make the trains every 40 minutes for the same price - this would take 6 buses an hour of the M2, and (guess) 15 cabs, and then thre is the private car drop-offs
It doable be doable - the point is that some overarching transport plan like transport21 down south is needed - and move towards seperating the infrastrucute provider from the operator is also needed. Lastly most of this railway line would be shared with the current Glenavy closed line - so
this is additional business to this fixed infrastructure - it finding the company who can do it - Veolia with all its problems would still outshine Translink for me..Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 08:39 PMBonarLaw
There are two all-island parties in government on the island, not one.
Sammy
And then of course there’s Belfast-Brussels. And I mean Brussels, not southern Wallonia!
Comrade
Really I’d expect Belfast to be linked to all of Zurich, Vienna, Frankfurt and Munich, to maximize the options right across southern German-speaking Europe. That’s the only bit of German-speaking Europe that’s productive right now!
Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 08:58 PM1) lets start by proposing that wouldn’t neet to be run by the goons at Translink - why not privatise it - better still as the line is currently closed but in working order - run it as a light rail service.
I do not think that would help. I don’t think a private operator would touch it, without the business. There isn’t even a privately operated bus service to either airport here, as far as I know, to compete with Translink’s. That’s because making a business out of it would be hard. And the reason for that is that people seem to be happy enough either driving there or using the taxis (although, did you see the howls of anguish when Aldergrove drastically hiked their long-term parking fees lately?).
I do think that the closure of the Lisburn-Antrim section of the railway, while a tragedy of sorts, was a financial reality associated with the government’s (the NI Executive’s!) refusal to to provide the funds to keep it open. I am sure in the future that it will reopen as the city continues to grow. At this stage, the traffic around Belfast just isn’t bad enough to really make people want to use public transport. It takes me 15 minutes to drive the six miles to work in Belfast city centre from Whiteabbey in the mornings, if I leave at 9 and go home at 6. In Dublin, Birmingham, Manchester or London that would be utterly impossible.
Personally the privatization of Translink is an option I would consider very carefully, if I had anything to do with it. Mostly on the basis that it could not possibly get any worse.
3) Charge a ÂŁ1 levey per passenger - this give ÂŁ6m
per annum - which is a decent subsidy in anyones books - and aiports should not be allowed to grow
without some capacity for public tansport.I could go along with that.
I suggest that on top of the subsidy above - there is the operating revenue - it currenlty cost ÂŁ9 return on ulsterbus from belfast to aldergrove - so thats the benchamerk for the train service to beat.
You will probably find that the bus service is run as a fairly straight business and breaks even, like most of what Translink does. The NI government does not yet accept that subsidizing public transport leads to public benefits. I’ve always thought it funny, as in the United States (capitalism Mecca where the private car is King) city and regional governments heavily subsidize local buses, and in the case of California, trains to the hilt, knowing that in return for the investment they’re making the city an easier place to get around in and helping people spread their money around.
</I>The trick is to make the trains every 40 minutes for the same price - this would take 6 buses an hour of the M2, and (guess) 15 cabs, and then thre is the private car drop-offs</I>
40 minutes isn’t frequent enough. It needs to be 15 minutes or 20 minutes all through the day while trains are operating. If I get off my plane after a flight from New York, am I going to want to have to drag all my luggage onto a platform, wait up to 40 minutes (assuming it’s on time), and then negotiate my way onto a train, and then figure out how to get home from the destination station ? No. But it would be different if I didn’t have to wait on the train; and if there were enough trains it is less likely that they would be packed, and delays would be less of a problem.
It doable be doable - the point is that some overarching transport plan like transport21 down south is needed - and move towards seperating the infrastrucute provider from the operator is also needed. Lastly most of this railway line would be shared with the current Glenavy closed line - so
this is additional business to this fixed infrastructure - it finding the company who can do it - Veolia with all its problems would still outshine Translink for me..We can’t really compare ourselves to the Irish government and try to emulate their plans. We don’t have the cash, and we don’t have the projected economic growth to justify it. I think we need to be realistic and look at incremental improvements in the transport system, and identify the real hotspots. The commuter railway lines from Belfast to Bangor and Larne should be the focus of public transport investment around Belfast; the track should be doubled between York Road and Central, and more passing loops added between Whitehead and Larne. Passing loops should be reinstated on the Derry line as well. Bus-wise, we should be bringing in the nice long quality bus corridors with high frequency services that have worked well in Dublin. Translink should be given responsibility for bus shelters and bus trak, to stop the silly nonsense there at the moment.
IJP, I have to confess that my desire for a link to a Munich is more to do with making it easier to attend the fantastic Oktoberfest. :)
Posted by on Aug 07, 2007 @ 10:27 PMThis is a bad day for the real Ireland. With the rugby and the hurling going south, now we have this. Yes, it is true we have Northern ne’er do wells at Shannon, but for fuck’s sake, Gerry Kelly has been to London before.
Limerick needs more handouts. Please help.Posted by on Aug 08, 2007 @ 12:08 AMIn Dublin, Birmingham, Manchester or London
In Dublin it would be impossible. In London, you wouldn’t even think about doing it because public transport is miles faster and doesn’t involve spending most of your wages on parking. In Manchester you might manage it, and in Brum it’s a piece of piss - what the Luftwaffe didn’t flatten in 1940, the planners flattened in the ‘60s to build dual carriageways. And all these cities are bigger and older than Belfast.
Posted by on Aug 08, 2007 @ 01:33 AMI think building train links to the airports is the least of our transport worries. The vast majority of the population here live nowhere near a station. Even with 10M passengers at Aldergrove I think you’d do well making a business case to support a rail link.
Our transport priorities should be to improve the motorway network in the North and an urban transport network for Belfast.
Posted by on Aug 08, 2007 @ 09:57 AM“I think building train links to the airports is the least of our transport worries. The vast majority of the population here live nowhere near a station.”
I would dispute that.
“Our transport priorities should be to improve the motorway network in the North and an urban transport network for Belfast.”
Frankly I don’t agree with adding to the motorway network much beyond a bit of dualling down to Newry and Londonderry. Our roads really dont seem that crowded to justify more by way of motorways.
Certainly more light rail in Belfast makes sense esp using the old Comber line out the Newtownards road.
Posted by on Aug 08, 2007 @ 10:32 AMThe Strategic Review into NIR says that NIRs catchment is 75% of NI population; cities and towns covered include Belfast, Londonderry, Lisburn, Newry, Newtownabbey, Bangor, Ballymena, Carrickfergus, Lurgan, Coleraine, Craigavon, Portadown, Limavady, Antrim and Larne.
Posted by on Aug 08, 2007 @ 10:43 AM>>"I think building train links to the airports is the least of our transport worries. The vast majority of the population here live nowhere near a station.”
I would dispute that.
<<I live in Belfast and wouldn’t take the train to Aldergrove if it was available today for the same reasons why I don’t take the bus; time, expence and inconvenience in reaching Great Victoria street. I never have a problem with conjestion when travelling to Aldergove by car. I’m afraid there are other prioities such as linking our two major cities (Belfast and Derry) by motorway.
>>Frankly I don’t agree with adding to the motorway network much beyond a bit of dualling down to Newry and Londonderry. Our roads really dont seem that crowded to justify more by way of motorways.<<
You obviously don’t travel much beyond Belfast.
Posted by on Aug 08, 2007 @ 10:50 AM“You obviously don’t travel much beyond Belfast.”
I do. NI’s motorways and roads are comparatively uncongested.
As for your point about getting to the airport by car. What about those visiting NI who don’t have a car there? And what about people who don’t have a car?
Posted by on Aug 08, 2007 @ 10:58 AM
