Tuesday, December 11, 2007
“A New Year proposal that will be too good for the FAI and IFA to refuse”
The Irish Independent reports that “advanced discussions about the introduction of an All Ireland soccer league” have taken place between top eircom League and Irish League sides and with the backing of “significant third party” encouragement.
While the report cites no sources and accordingly has to be taken with a large pinch of salt, it appears the intention is to draft a New Year proposal that “will be too good for the FAI and IFA to refuse”.
Daniel McDonnell believes that while the prospect of an All Ireland league has until now been viewed as “an impossible dream” due to political and logistical hurdles, the introduction of the Setanta Sports Cup has introduced new momentum.
Early plans envisaged that the new All Ireland League would comprise twelve teams with regional leagues underneath while both the FAI Cup and IFA Cup would remain in situ thus retaining a degree of historical tradition.
Those ideas are not set in stone, though, with the only firm issue of agreement being that any club wishing to be in the top league should be a full time professional outfit with suitable facilities.
Those clubs in the North that have participated in secret talks naturally include big guns like Linfield and Glentoran but there are also surprise packages such as Newry City who have ambitious plans about their future which they also expect to announce early next year.
Naturally, the clubs need to convince the FAI and the IFA of the merits of such a league or at least force them to sit up and take notice.
The origins of the initiative came from meetings between the six leading eircom League full time clubs—Cork City, Drogheda United, Derry City, St Patrick’s Athletic, Bohemians and Galway United.
The logistical problems include the distribution of European places as well as the strong possibility that FIFA would demand that if the Irish leagues are united then the international team should go the same way.
Speaking of FIFA, the organisation’s Executive Committtee is scheduled to give its verdict on the eligibility row regarding footballers born in Northern Ireland declaring for the Irish Republic this Saturday in Tokyo.
George @ 12:03 PM
There’s a presumption in this thread, probably correct, that fans of NI teams would not be in favour of a joint league.
As a fairweather (i.e. not very often) Sligo Rovers fan, I couldn’t see Sligo fans being in favour of a joint league either. They would be wary of clashes with NI supporters. I supspect the same would be true for supporters of other ROI clubs.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 04:47 PMWillow
“How come Liechtenstein is not only recognised by UEFA, but is a member?”Got in there before break up of Soviet Union, which is what is really causing all these problems - it is difficult to accommodate so many new countries in international competition!
Pariety of Esteem claims within FIFA coming down the line I would think! Take China for example - population of 1.2 billion people, 48 different nationalities, numerous provinces (similar standing to some of the UK associations which has a population of 70m?). At the moment they field three teams based on previous membership of FIFA - People’s Republic of China, Honk Kong & Macau.
Monaco (Principality) has also been campaigning for membership of EUFA/FIFA.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 04:50 PMFair enough George I’ll accept that - but I still cant see that its a big hurdle and I dont even know why its being mentioned.
A bigger hurdle would be one team representing two juristictions for which I’m not sure there is a precendent (though I can hear googles servers warming up even as i write this :-) ) where would it end Faroe Islands vs South America ?
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 04:51 PMSo the big question is whether Hong Kongs inhabitants are eligible to play for China .... they are all Chinese now dont you know.
I’ll get my coat.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 04:55 PMThere is also then the conspiracy theory that there is a cabal in FIFA with the knives out for the IFA home nation.
I don’t believe it myself but I am sure there are some in the IFA who would want assurances before making any moves down this road.
George
In November 2005, the Welsh FA revealed that two attempts had been made in the previous four years to remove Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales from international competition and replace them with a UK team. The matter was reported to have been discussed at FIFA’s executive committee, but didn’t get as far as congress.
Whilst I don’t necessarily believe there’s a faction out to ‘get’ the four home nations, there is clearly some dissatisfaction, amongst the African Nations in particular, that one country (the UK) has four votes in FIFA matters.Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 04:56 PM“They would be wary of clashes with NI supporters. I supspect the same would be true for supporters of other ROI clubs”
Except, maybe, supporters of those clubs (North and South)who have competed in the Setanta Cup without any major “clashes”.
On the contrary, the Setanta Cup has gone a long way is breaking down perceptions such as your own - I think primarily of the excellent bonds that have been developed between officials and supporters of Linfield FC and Drogheda United.
Seems your a bit out of touch Michael.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 04:58 PM“that one country (the UK) has four votes in FIFA matters” - Get the point but surely country is the wrong word. Perhaps one UN member ?
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 05:04 PMWillowfield,
I’m not aware of the position when Liechtenstein joined but they were in the process of becoming a UN member.I fished out the latest Statute and Article 5 is the relevant one:
“Membership of UEFA is open to national football associations. Members situated in the continent of Europe, based in a country which is recognised by the United Nations as an independent state, and
which are responsible for the organisation and implementation of football-related matters in the territory of their country.”I don’t know what the position was 20 years ago as this statute means Northern Ireland or England couldn’t be members.
It could be that “football-related matters” means you actually don’t have to have a league.
So all that would be needed is for the IFA to control “football-related matters” rather than the league?
It is for UEFA to interpret their own statutes so they could just as easily say they want that this Superleague is a “football-related matter”.
Who knows?
Janeymac,
true they would be after all four.Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 05:12 PMDec,
that certainly adds grist to the conspiracy theory mill.Accordingly, I have reduced by position from not believing to suspicious of the conspiracy theory.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 05:15 PMIn a scenario where there isn’t much liklihood of crowd violence etc this is a no-brainer and any debate should be kept apart from the international team / teams argument as much as possible.
For me, the whole essence of top level sport is that you strive to play at a higher level. In Ireland that realistically means an all-Ireland league and regional lower leagues. It’s ridiculous that teams like Linfield are in such a small pool like the Irish League (ditto albeit at a higher level Celtic & Rangers in the SPL). And why not go another step and push for a cup competiton for clubs in Britain and Ireland to replace the moribund League Cups?
My only reservation is that anything run by the FAI and IFA that can go wrong will go wrong.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 05:20 PMThe other little northern european nations are well ahead of us. We really ought to have a 12 club Celtic League by now.
http://www.soccerway.com/international/europe/scandinavian-royal-league/2006-2007/groupstage
Might confuse a few Belfast based Glasgow club fans.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 05:47 PMBelfast United,
The Scandanavian Royal League is very similar to the existing Setanta Cup in terms of it’s metabolism.
ie. Group stages, followed by knockout.
It is, de facto, a cup competition - not a league.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 06:02 PM“it appears the intention is to draft a New Year proposal that “will be too good for the FAI and IFA to refuse”
It must have escaped the “backers” attention that, only a couple of weeks ago, the IFA managed to “refuse” a “freebie” of almost ÂŁ5M - on account of their inability to streamline their Management Committee.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 06:21 PMIt might not be relevant to UEFA but to FIFA anyway, but the top level league in North America, the MLS, is “authorised” by both the USSF and CSA. So Northern Ireland could survive. Still think it’s a bad idea for the IL teams though.
And just out of curiosity, why do people here (I’ve seen it before) refer to something called “EUFA” ? If you’re translating UEFA into English then surely FIFA would become IFFA.
Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 12:23 AM“Still think it’s a bad idea for the IL teams though. “
Do you want soccer here to remain permanently semi-professional and crappy? Because I can’t see how else you get enough critical mass to support a half decent professional league.
It would even be tempting if an All-Ireland league get built up enough to propose some kind of merger with the Scottish one too. The harsh fact about modern football is that you money to produce any decent standard. And having better teams (even if there are fewer of them), competing at a higher level with better facilities ultimately helps the national sides.
Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 01:18 AM“How Chekovian. Your towering intellect and staggering word power would be better employed in explaining you can raise the dispute between the IFA & the FAI and then become upset about someone else mentioning the subject of that dispute - player eligibility.”
The different interpretations of the eligibility argument have been discussed ad nauseum. The IFA remain the losing party if FIFA’s proposals are implemented ergo the body should look after their own interests by refusing to play ball on all Ireland competitions unless the FAI play ball on eligibility. The comparative merits of the actual eligibility arguments are irrelevant in this instance.
Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 09:03 AMThe IFA remain the losing party if FIFA’s proposals are implemented ergo the body should look after their own interests by refusing to play ball on all Ireland competitions unless the FAI play ball on eligibility.
Yes, that would be the mature response.
Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 09:12 AMchekov
‘unless the FAI play ball on eligibility’ ?
Funny that the IFA have not kicked up a stink in the past when players have represented Ireland at competitive underage level.There were guys from the North playing for the Republic over 12 years ago and quite a few since, without a single complaint from the IFA.
And it’s got nothing to do with any FIFA rule changes, as the continued statements from FIFA over the last two years have stated that players from the North are free to represent the Republic, if they so wish.
Also hardly surprising that Mr Poots failed to get the support required to pass a motion in the Assembly yesterday supporting the IFA’s stance on the issue.
Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 09:30 AMwhat’s to stop linfield just joining the FAI league if the money was right. Haven’t Derry City already done so! The IFA may regret allowing Derry to do that as it dilutes the notion that NI is exclusively the territory of the IFA
Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 10:48 AMThe majority Assembly vote went with the motion which was not proposed by Poots, but rather by Danny Kennedy and David McNarry.
Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 10:57 AM“The majority Assembly vote went with the motion which was not proposed by Poots, but rather by Danny Kennedy and David McNarry.”
Which is utterly meaningless because the cross community vote killed it.
As pointed out on another thread, it is effectively a “wind up the taigs” motion.
Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 11:40 AMThe IFA may regret allowing Derry to do that as it dilutes the notion that NI is exclusively the territory of the IFA
That is a very interesting point (in regards to the eligibility issue).
Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 11:49 AM“The harsh fact about modern football is that you money to produce any decent standard.”
Not much of a soccer expert but quite enjoyed the recent NI games so this is an open question. Please minimise condesension.
Somebody somewhere in statistics obsessed football must have worked out at what stage throwing extra money at football teams stops improving the results. Anyone seen it? I’ve seen pieces in business articles showing that Chelsea’s immense budget proves that competence in organisations is definitely not a function of resource allocation (I saw one paralleling this with the relative size and effectiveness of R&D;spend in Toyota and GM is another example).
The English Premiership has 20 teams for a population of 48 million. If you really need 2.4 million people (and the attendant advertising rights) to support an English Premiership standard team proportionately NI could carry maybe 1 team (if we want one that is), and the Island of Ireland 2.5. Scotland’s premier league has 12.
Big long naive question. Put simply how crappy are the Scottish league teams outside the old firm compared with English teams. Does keeping the league that size in anyway undermine Rangers and Celtic?
If in 10 years I want to take the kids to see Belfast United beat some English or Scottish premiership teams do we have to put all our eggs in one Basket?
Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 12:08 PM“As pointed out on another thread, it is effectively a “wind up the taigs” motion.”
It most certainly isn’t meaningless. It allows the IFA to proceed knowing that they have the majority backing of the NI Assembly despite the cross-community mechanism being inappropriately invoked. If the motion “winds up the taigs” then that is because nationalists are advocating apartheid on this issue, nothing to do with bad faith by unionists. The division on this issue comes down to those who want to make Northern Ireland institutions work and remain inclusive and those who wish to advance “separate but equal”.
Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 12:15 PMThe choice for the Northern teams in particular is whether they wish to retain a semi-professional but sustainable league or gamble on a professional set-up where many clubs will go under. Ireland as a whole is unlikely to support 16 full-time football teams comfortably. A large number of clubs will be overstretching themselves either to remain in the top flight or in an attempt to reach it.
The novelty of playing in a wider set-up will soon diminish. I can’t see large numbers of supporters from Belfast or Ballymena travelling to Cork or Dublin every other week. There is in any case no tradition of rivalry between the teams and supporters would soon return to wanting to play their local rivals.
Any television backing would be fairly moderate I’d imagine and when the standard fails to increase dramatically over night Setanta or whoever else will soon become restless.
The entire idea is ill-conceived. Talk to rugby people and they will tell you that they rue the day the AIL came into being.
Posted by on Dec 12, 2007 @ 12:25 PM
