Tuesday, December 11, 2007
“A New Year proposal that will be too good for the FAI and IFA to refuse”
The Irish Independent reports that “advanced discussions about the introduction of an All Ireland soccer league” have taken place between top eircom League and Irish League sides and with the backing of “significant third party” encouragement.
While the report cites no sources and accordingly has to be taken with a large pinch of salt, it appears the intention is to draft a New Year proposal that “will be too good for the FAI and IFA to refuse”.
Daniel McDonnell believes that while the prospect of an All Ireland league has until now been viewed as “an impossible dream” due to political and logistical hurdles, the introduction of the Setanta Sports Cup has introduced new momentum.
Early plans envisaged that the new All Ireland League would comprise twelve teams with regional leagues underneath while both the FAI Cup and IFA Cup would remain in situ thus retaining a degree of historical tradition.
Those ideas are not set in stone, though, with the only firm issue of agreement being that any club wishing to be in the top league should be a full time professional outfit with suitable facilities.
Those clubs in the North that have participated in secret talks naturally include big guns like Linfield and Glentoran but there are also surprise packages such as Newry City who have ambitious plans about their future which they also expect to announce early next year.
Naturally, the clubs need to convince the FAI and the IFA of the merits of such a league or at least force them to sit up and take notice.
The origins of the initiative came from meetings between the six leading eircom League full time clubs—Cork City, Drogheda United, Derry City, St Patrick’s Athletic, Bohemians and Galway United.
The logistical problems include the distribution of European places as well as the strong possibility that FIFA would demand that if the Irish leagues are united then the international team should go the same way.
Speaking of FIFA, the organisation’s Executive Committtee is scheduled to give its verdict on the eligibility row regarding footballers born in Northern Ireland declaring for the Irish Republic this Saturday in Tokyo.
George @ 01:03 PM
I can see the temptation for Irish league clubs but they could well be on the road to financial ruin if they push forward on this. Increased costs and the pressure to go full-time will not be matched by increased gate-receipts in the long-term. Setanta are presumably the interested TV party but they increasingly have greater fish to fry. Already the Setanta Cup is becoming difficult to fit into a busier schedule.
Certainly the IFA should not think about cooperating with the FAI on this until the elegibility farce is settled in their favour.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 01:34 PMStory being reported in The Indo and Belfast Telegraph today - two papers from the same stable.
The stable, incidently, that recently broke the news us that the IFA had “won the war” on the player eligibility issue. Perhaps the credibility of todays reports can be taken in that context.
Interesting stuff tho - one we’ve discussed on Slugger at length previously.
As a Linfield supporter, I would broadly welcome the idea of an AI league in some form.
It is worth noting the level of animosity that currently exists amongst a section of the Linfield fanbase towards the IFA - something I witnessed first hand on my SC bus travelling to Derry a couple of weeks ago! Nasty stuff altogether.
As a Northern Ireland supporter, I am totally opposed to anything that threatens the future autonomy of our International team.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 01:38 PMAnd as a Crues fan, I’m totally against it. The smaller clubs already struggle to keep up with Linfield and to a lesser extent Glentoran (although Cliftonville and Portadown are making a half-decent go of it).
This would just cut them off even more.
And even if I could be convinced on the merits of the league (which I might if there was a persuasive argument), as a NI fan I wouldn’t accept anything that would threaten the future of the national side.
If this and the all-island player selection debacle both come to fruition then there will be understandable pressure for an all-Ireland team and the IFA should resist that at all costs. The recognition by the FAI of the IFA’s territorial integrity regarding international selection must be a precondition for any discussion on this.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 01:57 PMThis would be in the interests only of a small minority of IPL clubs: Linfield, Glentoran and possibly one or two others.
The other 12 or so clubs would not make it into an all-Ireland league and would therefore suffer financially.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 01:58 PMChekov wrote: Certainly the IFA should not think about cooperating with the FAI on this until the elegibility farce is settled in their favour.
That’s a lost battle, Chekov. FIFA won’t support the IFA position. Besides, it’s an admission of defeat for an association to resort to law to bully young players from choosing who they want to play for.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 02:07 PM1) No it’s not.
2) Fuck off and make that point in a thread about player eligibility.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 02:10 PMAha. So once again it appears that when it looks like FIFA are about to pass a ruling in favour of diehard NI fans who want nothing to do with the ROI, then they are totally infallible, and not subject to overrule by anyone or anything or any law anywhere.
But if there is even the slightest chance that FIFA may be involved in a chain of events that COULD possibly lead to the (eminently sensible) suggestion that the 2 footballing nations could combine, then the Diehards are totally opposed to it and FIFA can stick their so-called ‘authority’ right up their arse.
Would that be a fair summing up of your position then?
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 02:11 PMWhy should Irishmen be restricted to playing for a British team only?
Ireland’s sons don’t belong to the IFA. What next? Will the thought police be sent round to enforce compulsory support of NI on all of us traitors who refuse to bow the knee?
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 02:15 PMWhy should Irishmen be restricted to playing for a British team only?
Presumably what you mean is why should Northern Irishmen be restricted to playing for Northern Ireland only?
Answer: because you can’t play for more than one team.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 02:22 PMWe only want to play for our own team Willowfield.
It’s just a pity that the IFA can’t accept and respect that.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 02:26 PMAs northern nationalist I’m very sorry i don’t support the wee 6 but there you go, take me out and shoot me.
As a Derry City fan I’m not over the moon about an all Ireland League on the basis of our previous treatment at the hands of our near neighbours (and thats not our sheep loving friends from Donegal).
But as a footballing realist on this island the only way we’ll make any progress is to go for it. The Setanta Cup is a success. An all Ireland league will be a success and as for the wee clubs, guess what? We only have to look to England and Europe to see what happens, the big clubs set the agenda and the wee ones get to suck it.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 02:27 PM“We only want to play for our own team Willowfield.
It’s just a pity that the IFA can’t accept and respect that”
I can accept that point in theory Pacman - I hope your (and others) goalposts don’t move when you are told that anything threatening the Northern teams autonomy is resisted under the same principle.Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 02:32 PMThis seems very much like the proposal that’s floated from time to time of the two Glasgow *giants* being drafted into the English league.
Celtic and Rangers consider themselves to have grown too big for the other Scottish minnows they’re *forced* to play against and want to “widen their playing horizons” and make a whole lot more money into the bargain too, of course by switching south of the border.This plan (and bear in mind it’s been leaked to the Irish Indep and Bel Tel, hardly the most credible of sources at the minute) would be probably great for Linfield and the Glens who can guarantee both the crowds at home and are able to bring a large travelling support south of the border to make a financial killing.
The rest of the IPL have absolutely nothing to gain from any all-Ireland league.Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 02:32 PM‘Certainly the IFA should not think about cooperating with the FAI on this until the elegibility farce is settled in their favour.’
chekov
Both associations seem to be cooperating very well, what with the Celtic Cup proposals and the conference below.
http://www.faiifagrassrootsseminar.com/I presume the IFA have now accepted that the previous ruling stands and that Irish players from the North will continue to be eligible for Ireland.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 02:39 PMThe only goalposts being moved Democratic that I can see is that the IFA have suddenly decided that they are entitled to command the loyalty of all of the citizens of NI when it’s patently clear that they don’t and never have.
I accept the IFA’s right to resist anything they feel may undermine their future prospects but quid pro quo they must accept my right to choose to play for my country. Should that mean that they may lose out, then so be it. It is a free and democratic society, isn’t it?
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 02:50 PMBad for a number of teams on both sides (I’d guess they’d be moving to the standard European 16 club model) but probably good for the overall game in Ireland. It pulls resources and concentrates it towards the top - many will argue this is appalling, but it is the modern game, ultimately. And a rising tide should lift all ships, hopefully.
One of the biggest problem for growth to me seems to be the awful state of most of the grounds. Investment would need poured in there to make it somewhere families would go to.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 03:07 PMChekov wrote: Fuck off and make that point in a thread about player eligibility.
How Chekovian. Your towering intellect and staggering word power would be better employed in explaining you can raise the dispute between the IFA & the FAI and then become upset about someone else mentioning the subject of that dispute - player eligibility.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 03:10 PMI was thinking about an all ireland league just the other day as in recent weeks I’ve had the misfortune of having northern and southern league match highlights on sky in front of me in the gym - and that is seriously bad quality stuff.. embarrassingly so..
so anything that would tend to concentrate and increase the quality of football a little should be welcomed..
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 03:12 PMWelsh teams play in the English league without threatining the existence of either International team.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 03:21 PM“The logistical problems include the distribution of European places as well as the strong possibility that FIFA would demand that if the Irish leagues are united then the international team should go the same way.”
Nice troll George - two words - San Marino.
and a nice example of why something positive can be spoiled by republican flag waving.
That phrase is guaranteed (designed ?) to get unionists backs up and raise opposition to this idea.
So the question is - would you like this to work or are you interested in the usual zero sum game ?
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 03:32 PMmnob,
”Nice troll George - two words - San Marino.and a nice example of why something positive can be spoiled by republican flag waving.
Republican flag waving? San Marino? Troll?
These are the “logistical” problems specifically mentioned by McDonnell so I reproduced them without any commentary.
Perhaps you would care to present an argument that they aren’t logistical problems?
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 03:46 PMwell the “strong possibility that FIFA would demand that if the Irish leagues are united then the international team should go the same way.” is not a logistical problem because San Marino while having their main club side play in the Italian league retain an independant international team.
Therefore my assertion is that whoever wrote that is :
a) a hugely optomistic nationalist believing anything is another small step towards the ultimate solution
or
b) actually wants to annoy the prods by pointing out something they wont like even if its not true.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 04:00 PMmnob,
”is not a logistical problem because San Marino while having their main club side play in the Italian league retain an independant international team.”San Marino also has its own league, which is a prerequisite to being recognised by UEFA.
It isn’t a simple situation and problems can arise from anywhere. Gibraltar has been refused membership of UEFA, for example, when the organisation quickly changed its rules two weeks before a CAS decision so that membership would only be open to associations from a country recognised by the UN.
Which, by the way, means that if Northern Ireland (or England for that matter) were to have to reapply, it wouldn’t meet this criterion for UEFA membership.
A logistical problem for this issue is that there would still have to be two national leagues in order for there to be two international teams.I assume that is why the idea of a new All Ireland Superleague having regional leagues underneath it was mentioned. Theoretically these regional leagues could constitute the necessary national ones.
Would that wash? Who knows?
There is also then the conspiracy theory that there is a cabal in FIFA with the knives out for the IFA home nation.
I don’t believe it myself but I am sure there are some in the IFA who would want assurances before making any moves down this road.
As for your (a) I think you are reading something into an article that isn’t there.
As for your (b) I think you are reading something into an article that isn’t there.
The Irish Independent and Sir Anthony aren’t exactly renowned for Republican flag waving.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 04:36 PMGeorge
San Marino also has its own league, which is a prerequisite to being recognised by UEFA.
How come Liechtenstein is not only recognised by UEFA, but is a member?
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 05:22 PMGeorge:
“There is also then the conspiracy theory that there is a cabal in FIFA with the knives out for the IFA home nation.”
I think it is more British Associations x 4 (four votes, permanent seat on FIFA Executive etc).
FIFA VP Jack Warner (Trinadad & Tobago) is leading the charge.
Posted by on Dec 11, 2007 @ 05:29 PM
