Monday, August 04, 2008
A deal on how?
The DUP and SF have agreed there should be a single police and justice ministry with the minister elected by cross-community vote but neither the DUP or SF will nominate. The timing has not been agreed. David Ford has given an “emphatic no” to Alliance playing any role. UPDATE Anyone know whether or not his means Executive meetings will start again?
Fair Deal @ 10:48 AM
So its a case of the DUP/SF alliance agreeing to it, but not wanting to take the responsiblity. and it is also a case of the DUP trying to save face by transfering the powers, trying to make it look like SF/IRA will not have a say in the matter because they will not get the ministery.
simple fact is though both parties will have equal power of policing and justice, and the DUP must think people are stupid if they think we dont know this
Make no mistake this is the end for the DUP
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 12:05 PMfair-deal
I’m not sure “emphatic no” is correct:Mr Ford said: “They (the DUP and Sinn Fein) really ought to consult with us before they spin about us,”
“I think there is this idea that they can rely on us to ride to the rescue, well they can’t expect that when they haven`t spoken to us (on the issue) for the last 16 months,” he added.
What is clear is the pressure is on, negative headlines are embarrasing for SF and DUP.
Perhaps we’ll have a timetable in/by the Autumn! We all are familiar with process in Norn Iron, there are a number of devices used to settle these matters:
Creative ambiguity, sunset clauses, flexible approaches to fixed positions.
The last being my favourite ;)Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 12:07 PMI see there is also a post on this at The Belfast Stoop as well.
http://www.thebelfaststoop.com/2008/08/wheres-justice-going.html
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 12:21 PMPercy
... except that on BBC Newsline David Ford said, and I quote: “This is an emphatic no”.
Which probably means it’s an emphatic no.
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 12:21 PMIJP
Indeed.
And there’s the statement issued by David Ford noted in the post below.
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 12:25 PMSDLP it is then.
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 12:28 PMSo how does this “cross community” vote work?
If the UUP nominated and was supported by the DUP whilst the SDLP nominated and was supported by SF surely there’d be stalemate?
Unless somebody redesignates to save us all again…
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 12:36 PMIf the SDLP and UUP nominate one of their MLA’s for the position will it not go to an assembly vote then to decide?
meaning the UUP would most likely win a majority vote…
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 12:38 PMConquistador,
you go in there before me with the question
I am assuming if both the UUP and SDLP nominate then there would be an assembly vote?
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 12:39 PMStormont doesn’t go in for such democratic nonsense like majority votes.
I think cross community votes need the support of 50% of designated thems and 50% designated usses,
this works for joint things like OFMDFM but for the sole justice minister I see problems.Of course they could have a deputy/junior justice minister for the side that doesn’t get the real thing, or just give it to Brian Wilson.
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 12:49 PMIs there a mission that the UUP will want the post?
Unlikely, as they’ve their eyes on bigger things to come with the Tories.
Expect a similiar statement from the UUP as from the Alliance.
SDLP then DC, which SF don’t really want to see, but as the DUP have moved, I’d suggest they should play ball.Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 12:52 PMThey took the poisoned chalice of health and the meaningless DEL so I suspect there’s someone there who fancies trying their arm at power/a ministerial salary.
“SDLP then DC”
What does your DC stand for?
Anyhow, who would the SDLP stick up for the post I suppose is the next idle seculation?
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 12:56 PMConcquistador - isn’t it 50% overall AND 40% of both communities?
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 01:05 PMIt’s not necessarily the same but (according to Wikipedia):
any vote taken by the Assembly can be made dependent on cross-community support if a “Petition of Concern” is presented to the Speaker. A Petition of Concern may be brought by at least 30 of the 108 MLAs under Section 42(2) of the Northern Ireland 1998 where there are concerns about proposed legislation. In such cases, a vote on proposed legislation will only pass if supported by a weighted majority (60%) of members voting, including at least 40% of each of the Nationalist and Unionist designations present and voting. Effectively this means that, provided enough MLAs from a given community agree, that community can exercise a veto over the Assembly’s decisions.
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 01:07 PMWell, well, well looks like Robbo jumping after he was pushed by Grizzly and El Gordo - but he is a realist and appear to be making the correct if (very difficult for him) decision and should be praised for doing so.
The Alliance’s stance on this is shocking - I heard David Ford jabbering about having to bale out DUP and SF in other departmental areas as well as if this was just another minor policy difference which was a result of squabbling between them. For Unionists and Nationalists this goes to the heart of those issues that have didvided the two communities and for the Alliance to take this stance really undemines their credibilty to be a party that is designed to bring the communities together. As Willows like to say in his posts ‘shame’.
ps Where is Pete Baker when he’s needed to tell us how SF got this so badly wrong only to be rescued by DUP goodwill?
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 01:23 PMAhh 60:40 then,
still, if one sort swings behind 1 potential minister and the other sort swings behind another problems could be on the horizon.
Don’t see anything of interest on the Unionist parties’ websites
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 01:35 PMSammy is it just part of your make-up that you have to interpret things as DUP losses? I can not see a DUP loss in this announcement as the DUP were the party that was in favour of the model for this ministry that has just been announced today.
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 01:52 PMUm, Sammy, how long have you lived on our planet, and are you perhaps finding the atmosphere a tad too heady? “Where is Pete Baker when he’s needed to tell us how SF got this so badly wrong only to be rescued by DUP goodwill” - I don’t know where Pete is, but you evidently don’t know where Sinn Fein are or were. What have they been droning on and on and on about, so much so that even friendly off-world aliens like yourself really should have picked it up by now? Surely the signals must have reached your home planet before you set off for Dungiven, 8th bazilliontrillion wonder of the Galaxy, or wherever it is that you landed? Sinn Fein said time after time after time that they wouldn’t suffer a ‘Unionist veto’ [sic] on a Shinner being policing n’ justice minister. They’ve just suffered such a veto: there explictly *isn’t* going to be a SF policing n’ justice minister. And having turned turtle with near Trimblesque gracelessness, u-turning as they did from all their ludicrous, puffed-out posturing up to this point, hey presto, agreement has been reached. Who’d have guessed? If Sinn Fein stop saying, ‘do it our way or it doesn’t get done’, it gets done. Just not the way SF wanted. Which is the kind of thing that’s just going to keep on happening to a royally kippered partionist party. Thank God, for their sake, that their voters, activists and Slugger infestors are much too conveniently thick to realise this, no matter how many times SF are turned over.
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 01:53 PMha ha ha…..
Those Shinner wankers got even less out of the Stormont Agreement than we even thought.
So no justice minister lol, another SF defeat which no doubt they’ll try and dress as a victory.
Fuck me just how dense are their supporters that can’t see they turn every thing they touch to shite.
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 02:19 PMRooster - according to Jonathan Powell SF agreed for there not to be an SF P&J;Minster yonks ago -before signing the Agreement. I’ll dig out reference tonight.
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 02:20 PMPerhaps Ford really doesn’t want the pressure on Alliance’s credibility that would come with the inevitable accusations of bias against whoever has P and J. Perhaps he is just running up the price before he agrees, like IP saying DUP would share power with SF over his dead body. The only other solution is to alternate the moderate parties in P&J;annually.
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 02:21 PMlets see who is desparate for power and who’s not.
Alliance have always appeared to be the loyal opposition but simply by default, now they have a choice.
the SDLP? well always looking for a chance to out green the shinners and this would be the ideal opportunity. Supported by the DUPs
THe UUP? not interested the DUPs haven’t the balls for the job so the UUP will leave then to vote for SF light - the SDLP and then criticise the DUPs for every daft green decision of Alex A.
Overall p&j;will be devloved, DUP nil SF 1.
Next? irish landguage foloowed by the Long kesh - well down peter!
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 02:29 PMIt’s pretty obvious, really.
The Executive has delivered precisely nothing.
If they cannot deliver a Justice Minister from among their own number, why should they be trusted with education and the 11+? Or the environment and the crisis in planning? Or culture and the Maze re-development?
Either the Executive is up to the job of governing NI, or it isn’t.
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 02:51 PMIsnt it amazing how the DUP dont seem to care anymore about the IRA “army” council still being in existance?
some may say that it has little power etc, but its existance will still be a sticking point for unionists, and the DUP showing they care very little about getting rid of it once and for all could prove costly.
Questions will be asked about what exactly the DUP have achieved from stormont. Very little if we are honest. Instead we just see a continuation of SF/IRA furthering their agenda.
The DUP will find itself in big trouble at the next election. They for years called the UUP weak and swore if they were in power they would “smash” SF/IRA and give them nothing.
Hasnt quite worked out like that. infact one could say they have done quite abit worse than the UUP did.
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 02:53 PMTU
“Isnt it amazing how the DUP dont seem to care anymore about the IRA “army” council still being in existance?”
Devolution hasn’t been agreed to and the confidence test remains.
Plus the 07 manifesto commitment has been held to.
“• can ensure there will be no Sinn Fein
Policing and Justice Minister”So if the AC goes and Policing and Justice goes to a non-Sf minister, is that your concerns addressed?
Posted by on Aug 04, 2008 @ 03:09 PM
