Tuesday, January 08, 2008
A career associated with snow.
Many years ago Ian Paisley stood outside Stormont ready to throw snowballs at the then Irish Taoiseach Séan Lamass. On Friday of last week the snow again intervened when the Free Presbyterian Church were due to elect a new moderator.
Although there have been requests for Paisley to stay on and he will not comment; it seems likely that there will be a new Free Presbyterian moderator who is not also heavily involved in politics.
There is a common misunderstanding amongst those outside the fundamentalist evangelical community that the Free Presbyterian Church preaches a great deal of politics. Whilst it is true that Rev. Ivan Foster seems to be so inclined; (though I have never attended the Kilskeery church and, as such, am loathe to comment) many Free Presbyterians are interested in the preaching of the gospel and have little time for politics. Indeed though the Free Presbyterian Church may once have been seen as the DUP at prayer that can hardly be entirely the case now with DUP members such as Peter Weir being Presbyterian, Arlene Foster being Church of Ireland and Nelson McCausland being Independent Methodist (and a good preacher and theologian in his own right). Also of course one of the DUP’s nemeses Jim Allister is a member of Ballymena Free Presbyterian Church.
An additional surprise for many outside the fundamentalist evangelical community in Northern Ireland is that the Free Presbyterians are by not the most doctrinally conservative or hard line. Free Presbyterians generally take a relatively relaxed view of women wearing trousers (at least outside church) and indeed women have been known not to wear hats in church. By comparison the Brethren and Independent Methodists would be stricter, though in fairness the Brethren deny being a denomination and of course the Independent Methodists (or Indies for short) are not Calvinist.
Many within the Free Presbyterian Church may well welcome the very clear separation of church and politics as it has been suggested by some that although Dr. Paisley is widely regarded as one of the best preachers of the gospel in Northern Ireland; his involvement in politics may have made some of the task of evangelism especially to Roman Catholics, politically liberal Protestants and outsiders more problematic.
Turgon @ 04:10 PM
In the unlikely event that I decide to have a sex change and convert to Free Presbyterianism in the same week it is comforting at least to know that I might attend the Sunday service at the Martyrs’ Memorial Church wearing culottes and sans chapeau.
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 05:00 PM“Free Presbyterians generally take a relatively relaxed view of women wearing trousers (at least outside church) and indeed women have been known not to wear hats in church”
Surely you jest !!!
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 05:10 PMtá brĂłn orm, i know this isn’t particularly relevant to this thread and if it is removed i’ll understand i just haven’t worked out how to post an individual topic as opposed to replying to one.
but it would seem that snow distrubed more than the Free P meeting
PSNI response to suspected drugs find not up to the mark
Sinn FĂ©in’s Niall Ă“ Donnghaile has expressed his utter dismay at the PSNI response to what local people suspect was another drugs find in the Short Strand area.
A small sealed bag containing traces of a white powder was found by a local resident in the same area as a similar find a few weeks back, close to the Doyle Youth Club.
The Sinn FĂ©in’s East Belfast Representative said,
“This is a worrying development given that this package was found in the same area as one a few weeks back, located just beside the Doyle Youth Club where children are gathered most nights of the week.
“I commend the vigilance of the resident who found this package and would call on parents to talk to their children and warn them about the dangers of drugs.
“If it does indeed emerge that this bag, and the last one, contained drugs then this is a worrying pattern and shows very clearly that people are targeting children within the area; we as a community must not allow that to happen.
“The response of the PSNI last night was not as commendable, having arranged to pass the package on to them with a member of the Short Strand Drug Awareness Programme, they then refused to come to the meeting because young children were throwing snowballs at them!
“This beggars belief and I dread to think if the same excuse would be used had someone been attacked or worse.
“I, the SSDP Worker and the resident who found the package were then forced to find another location in which to meet the PSNI and pass the package, which we believed may have contained drugs, over to them.
“We reiterate our party’s position to work with the PSNI to provide an effective and accountable policing service but the PSNI have a long way to go in gaining the confidence of this community and attitudes like those displayed last night do nothing to earn that trust.” CRĂŤOCH
if this can be moved then all the better, but when i read this i thought it was nuts!!!!
maith sibh
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 05:15 PMIt would seem as well as those wishing Paisley to stay on that Jim Allister’s office assistant gets the time to post on the Free P website too. Can’t be much work going on there these days.
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 05:21 PMThat is hilarious Turgon, best piece of satire I have read in years. Er...you were joking, right?
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 05:45 PMDear Turgon(though I have never attended the Kilskeery church and, as such, am loathe to comment)Iwould say that its about the only thing you know little or nothing about that you are loathe to comment on.Sorry joke joke only joking we all know how truly fair of mind you are.Hmmm and jim alister to as well i think.
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 06:02 PMTurgon
Welcome to the blogging team
“Independent Methodists would be stricter”
Glad to see they haven’t let standards slip since I last attended ;-)
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 06:03 PM“An additional surprise for many outside the fundamentalist evangelical community in Northern Ireland is that the Free Presbyterians are by not the most doctrinally conservative or hard line.”
(I am right in saying Gillespie is a Free P, am I not?)
And what was it Ian Paisley said about line dancing?
It’s “sexual gestures and touching” are “an incitement to lust.” Line dancing?! Lust?!
“Free Presbyterians generally take a relatively relaxed view of women wearing trousers (at least outside church) and indeed women have been known not to wear hats in church”
In any other context I’d assume that was an attempt at satire. I hope to God it is.
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 06:25 PMbeano
There are Presbyterian congregations who still do not permit dancing in their halls. I was involved in an Ulster-Scots event that had to be cancelled because of objections to the Scottish country and Highland dancing that was part of the entertainment. in the past Presbyterian objections to dancing were so strong it led to the old joke about presbyterians objecting to sex standing up in case it led to dancing.
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 06:31 PMWell, I would like to see us all et us all let Turgon be Turgon for awhile, and not just because he had the good grace to begin with a reminder that the First Minister was not always above lobbing snowballs (among other objects) in his salad days.
It is more likely we’ll learn something we didn’t know from someone posting from within the Protestant evangelical community about the Protestant evangelical community than from much else of what passes for expert commentary these days.
Besides, Mick and Pete are too slick and modern to ever let us know when it’s safe to take the trousers off.
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 07:55 PMWhy the Free P Church didn’t call its outgoing moderator to account whilst he was still in office is beyond me. Politely indicating it was time for a change was far more than the Chuckle Brother deserved.
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 07:58 PMWell said Susan.
I didn’t know that Allister was a member of the Ballymena congregation. A future Independent/Trad Unionist candidate for North Antrim perhaps?
Who are the runners and riders for the Moderator post? Any Kremlinologists out there picking up smoke signals?
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 08:11 PM“outside the fundamentalist evangelical community”
Turgon
Turgon, out of interest, is it considered polite to say “fundamentalist evangelical community” nowadays? I am Catholic, but when I was a little girl I remember Paisley et. al. used to make quite a distinction between fundamentalists (such as himself) and evangelicals “Emphasis is on the ‘geli,’ he used to say back then.
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 08:12 PMIt is odd how Protestants of one denomination pick apart Protestants of another. Makes you wonder what would have happened if there were no Catholics around.
Thanks for the post Turgon, you have reminded me / given me some insight into the mind sets of some groups within our society. Obviously a group that frowns upon women wearing trousers needs to be handled delicately!
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 08:25 PMsusan, McGrath and others,
I am not exactly clear on the etiquette of posting on one’s own blogs. I am still on a very steep learning curve. As an aside it took about six hours to create the two blogs and post them. Okay I may improve with time but tonight I may well just watch TV.
I am really a partial outsider on this part of Northern Ireland’s culture. Without boring you all with a biography I was raised in a pretty liberal home and attended a Presbyterian Church. Country Presbyterian Churches are, however, often very traditional and essentially quite similar to the Free Presbyterians.
At university many of my friends were Brethern, Free Presbyterian etc. Much later I married an Independent Methodist who had been a full time worker for her church (hi all those who now know exactly who I am). She was raised in an extremely strict background and in a very little way is a rebel.
I have little concern regarding trousers, dancing or television etc.
Yes the blog is a little tongue in cheek but I think it is worth pointing out that there is a sub culture in Northern Ireland which many only see through the prism of DUP politics. This sub culture is often not very interested in politics at all and the Free Presbyterians are by no means the most strict in terms of dress, what social events they will attend and a number of other issues.
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 09:07 PM“There is a sub culture in Northern Ireland which many only see through the prism of DUP politics. This sub culture is often not very interested in politics at all"--Turgon
Turgon, that is indeed an interesting distinction (at the very least to me), and I thank you for pointing it out.
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 09:23 PMTurgon
My thanks were sincere.
Most churches don’t preach politics, right up to the point when something in society starts to affect their sensibilities. Some churches have more stringent sensibilities that others, hence the likelihood of them becoming more political than others.
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 10:56 PM“I am not exactly clear on the etiquette of posting on one’s own blogs”
Turgon - smash the borgeous blogging norms! Post when you like! Change the subject in the third comment or on any old whim! Make ur cmmts in txt spk! Become the existentialist Slugger blogger!
Alternatively ask Elenwe kindly to not wear her hat in chapel. Once a year.
Kind Regards and looking forward to as many blogs on Tolkien as we have on spaceships.
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 10:58 PMGood man, Dewi. You have best well expressed that which I believe (and hope) is in all our hearts.
Give us more, please, Turgon.
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 11:14 PMAnd while you are there Rory is there anywhere between Kings Cross and Euston where I can get Sausage Beans and Chips for tea? Fed up of curries, Italians, Kebabs etc.....
Posted by on Jan 08, 2008 @ 11:25 PMWelsh Culture alive and kicking in Argentina - nowt to do with this but they tell me it’s snowing in Patagonia - fabulous choir.
Posted by on Jan 09, 2008 @ 12:34 AMDewi,
Between King’s x and Euston as you walk I’m blank as to a greasy spoon, but if you turn left out of K’s X and go to the entrance to King’s Cross Thameslink there is a small “British” full breakast gaff (Italian owned and run of course) that will do you “very ‘andsome, sir”.
Or your money back - from me!
Posted by on Jan 09, 2008 @ 01:06 AMThanks Rory ! - I’ll try tomorrow !
Posted by on Jan 09, 2008 @ 01:07 AMSeriously, greasy spoons are hard to find around King’s Cross these days? My goodness, that tells us a lot about modern London.
Posted by on Jan 09, 2008 @ 01:56 AMYeah right, Harry. The Sioux were also hard to locate around the Dakotas after the guys that that paved the way for MacDonalds to eliminate small London caffs got busy.
You should be cheering - it’s the inevitable progress that you so often insist we must accept and love - because it’s good for us. Innit?.
Posted by on Jan 09, 2008 @ 02:17 AM
