Friday, August 24, 2007
A brief glance into UUP thinking…
DAVID Burnside’s recent suggestion that the UUP leave the Executive to join the Opposition looks likes it’s been put on the long finger, if these minutes (below the fold) of UUP meetings earlier this month are anything to go by. Elsewhere in the (admittedly rather dull) document, the party seems keen on pushing the establishment of an Environmental Protection Agency (thus removing Crown immunity from the Dept of Environment run by the DUP’s Arlene Foster) and 15 local authorities (as opposed to the 11 favoured by the relevant Minister, Arlene Foster). There was nothing to report on party reform - the most pressing issue for the UUP - but “but that our attempts in getting articles through to the local press required greater effort”. Hopefully, this post goes some way towards addressing that. On the Irish Language, the UUP sees the “Act is an attempt by republicans to use the language as a cultural weapon in their ongoing struggle against unionism. As such, their proposals should not be supported”.
SUMMARY OF OUTCOME OF SPECIAL MEETINGS OF THE ULSTER UNIONIST MLA’S HELD ON TUESDAY 7th and WEDNESDAY 8th AUGUST 2007
UUP Opposition / Corporate Executive Decisions
It was agreed that the Ulster Unionist Assembly Group will keep under ongoing review the Party’s participation in the Assembly Executive and will prepare a submission to the Executive Review Committee to put forward proposals to ensure the creation of a more suitable form of democratic and accountable government for Northern Ireland. Ministers report to Group on Executive Business.
Devolution of Policing & Justice
It was agreed that the relevant parties would meet to prepare a submission on the Devolution of Policing & Justice, due on 17th August. Meeting to be called by Party Leader.
National Stadium
It was agreed to pursue consultations in the Party with key people. Meeting with key people to be called by Party Leader.
Environment & Planning
It was agreed that the Party spokesperson should look at taking the initiative in launching a campaign for an environment protection agency by way of a Private Member’s Bill or a Committee Bill; and to take an interest in the relevant environmental Groups and engage with them on a regular basis. It was also agreed not to move on the Party’s position of a 15-council model.
Performance in the Assembly & Projection of our efforts at Stormont / Party Reform
Performance in the Assembly & Projection of our efforts at Stormont – It was agreed that the Party’s performance in the Assembly had dramatically improved, but that our attempts in getting articles through to the local press required greater effort.
Party Reform – The Party Leader agreed to fully report to the Group again in due course. It was also agreed that the issue of MLAs contributions would be returned to the agenda for a full discussion.
Irish Language
It was agreed to support the motion with the inclusion of a suggested amendment, put forward by Roy Beggs, to include the words ‘St Andrews’ in the text. The motion is as follows:
This house considers that arrangements for suitable recognition of the Irish Language were made in the practical implementation of the Belfast Agreement, and that present agitation for an Irish Language Act is an attempt by republicans to use the language as a cultural weapon in their ongoing struggle against unionism. As such, their proposals should not be supported.
Education
It was agreed that as this was such a wide-ranging topic it warranted a comprehensive discussion; therefore a special meeting should be arranged with a full complement of Members.
Belfast Gonzo @ 12:04 AM
RG
Nà fiú a bheith ag argóint leis na haineolaithe. An rud is fearr dúinn a dhéanamh ná ár dteanga a labhairt agus a chur chun cinn gach bealach agus is féidir linn.
NĂl sĂ© á dhĂ©anamh chomh hĂ©ifeachtach agus ab fhĂ©idir faoi láthair ach mothaĂm go bhfuil beocht agus samhlaĂocht nua ag teacht isteach i saol na Gaeilge de rĂ©ir a chĂ©ile.
Posted by on Aug 25, 2007 @ 06:12 PMTell me it’s none of my business (either language) if you like RG Cuan. How much (percentage) of your day do you speak Irish, even if it’s just to say Hello to someone and do you live in a large city?
Posted by on Aug 26, 2007 @ 12:16 AMTurgon, thanks for your perspective. I can understand every word you say.
You wrote about Wales: “… it has done a great deal of reaching out in a much less divided society.”
The contrast between Ireland and Wales in straight terms of language numbers is stark. In 1920 both Wales and the Free State had a ~20% of “genuine” speakers (21% in Wales, 19% in the Free State). But, today, the difference in attitude to the two languages is quite different. Maybe, I’m just imagining it, but it always appears that Wales has a healthier attitude.
Wales clearly has a more homogeneous society, compared to the island of Ireland. The question I’d ask is whether other’s think that this is at fault in Ireland, and, if so, what can be done about it?
(Dawkins’ question about “dia duit” is significant for me in respect to this. I’d often thought it, even while it being pushed down my throat at school. Today, I just say ”hĂłigh” or ”haileo” - but in honesty, I’ve never actually heard anyone say it to me, and even if they did, I’d say “hĂłigh” or “haileo” back.)
Posted by on Aug 26, 2007 @ 12:18 AMJOE
I’d say over 70% most days, some less, some more. I speak Irish at work, with 3/4s of my friends and some of my family.
OILIFÉAR
Dewi can verify this for us but there is still quite a strong anti-Welsh language crowd in Wales. It’s not nearly as bad as it was, say in the 1970s/80s, but they are still around. I’ve even read many opinion pieces in newspapers taking a very cynical view of Cymreag and its speakers.
Posted by on Aug 26, 2007 @ 12:02 PMThat’s very impressive RG.
I attended Gaelig league Irish classes between about 9 and 11 and then went to grammar school where I took Irish to junior Certificate level. I did quite well in exams but 45 years have now passed and I can remember but a few phrases.
It wasn’t until I started going on vacations to NW Donegal in the mid seventies that I realised that Irish was in no way a dead language. It was all that was spoken by the locals in the small shops and post offices.
I regret my loss.Posted by on Aug 26, 2007 @ 12:55 PMYou might get back to it yet Joe. As important as the GaeltachtaĂ are, there’s more Irish being spoken outside them in our cities and towns. That’s where the language’s future is.
Posted by on Aug 26, 2007 @ 01:02 PMYes but I live in a small town in Ontario, 250km from Toronto, so the opportunity is zero.
Posted by on Aug 26, 2007 @ 01:08 PMJoe, there’s a Gaeltacht in Canada....and still 10 native speakers in Newfoundland...God I’m a sad bastard !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_North_American_Gaeltacht
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_Irish
Enjoy !!!
Agree that the cities are where the future lies !
Posted by on Aug 26, 2007 @ 05:45 PM“there’s a Gaeltacht in Canada”
Yes Dewi, but you probably live closer to it than I do.Posted by on Aug 26, 2007 @ 05:58 PMJoeCanuck,
I guess saying there’s a Gaeltacht in Canada is like saying there’s a reindeer ranch in Europe: not much good to a Greek.
Posted by on Aug 26, 2007 @ 07:04 PMThere’s a Gaeltacht in Greece...only kidding, and on reflection not worth posting !
Posted by on Aug 26, 2007 @ 07:20 PMIt’s OK, Irish is all Greek to Dawkins anyway.
Posted by on Aug 26, 2007 @ 08:05 PM“I’ve even read many opinion pieces in newspapers taking a very cynical view of Cymreag and its speakers.”
True - but I think that what has changed is strategic. A consensus has arisen that “we don’t want the language to die” - everybody always said that of course but this time the logical step of “what must we do to prevent the language dying” has been taken. The next step (very much under discussion) is “How do we create a truly bilingual society”
Interesting times, and the focus of Cymdeithas yr Iaith is on normality - making bilingualism the normal state of affairs. Went to Wales France today (don’t ask) but hearing the totally bilingual announcements is brilliant......I won’t suggest you attempt at Windsor Park !
Posted by on Aug 26, 2007 @ 08:17 PMBelfast Gonzo,
“It’s OK, Irish is all Greek to Dawkins anyway.
Cheeky bugger! I’ll have you know I have my cĂşpla fuckle.
Posted by on Aug 26, 2007 @ 08:20 PM“cĂşpla fuckle” ?
Sounds like something my wife would frown upon!
Posted by on Aug 26, 2007 @ 11:18 PMJoeCanuck,
“Sounds like something my wife would frown upon!”
That’s not what she said to me the other night :0)
And so to bed....
Posted by on Aug 27, 2007 @ 12:39 AMLOL
I walked right into that one.Posted by on Aug 27, 2007 @ 11:10 AMBut it is all so divisive. Wasn’t there a time when people wanted everyone in the world to speak Esperanto. All those laudable aims about reducing costs and increasing communication and understanding.
Of course if people want to learn a language, an art or a skill in their spare time why shouldn’t they. There are plenty of people who play golf but we don’t all have to do it. This example is of course infinitely extensible but you get my point.
I have no problem with people learning Gaelic and speaking it as a form of cultural expression but to invest in additional Irish medium schools or the training of Irish medium teachers for post primary education would divert funds from other worthy causes, increase division within our already divided society and would add nothing to the aim of preparing our society to compete in a global economy.
It is a selfish agenda set out by those who do not have to foot the bill.
Posted by on Aug 27, 2007 @ 04:40 PMThat’s the thing Smithsonian, Irish isn’t just a past-time! It’s a means of communication, a way of life, a world view for thousands of people in the north.
Irish speakers will foot the bill as they pay taxes and rates like everybody else. They simply ask for an adequate return on their money.
Posted by on Aug 28, 2007 @ 09:55 AM
