High tech can soften the prospect of a hard border, but it’s no Trojan horse.

The Guardian has posted an early lead from its Ireland correspondent Henry McDonald quoting NI Secretary James Brokenshire saying that:

London and Dublin will work to strengthen Ireland’s external borders in order to combat illegal migration into the UK once it leaves the European Union.

“There was now a high level of collaboration on a joint programme of work” between the two states to control immigration.

We have put in place a range of measures to further combat illegal migration working closely with the Irish government,” Brokenshire said. “Our focus is to strengthen the external border of the common travel area [CTA], building on the strong collaboration with our Irish partners.”

But this is not – or not yet -a Trojan horse for Ireland to impose restrictions on freedom of movement for EU nationals from other countries on the UK’s behalf. By itself it seems no more than extended use of high tech to monitor movements from outside these islands into them.  This is already part of the CTA agreement.

The Republic has already proposed finessing the thornier issue of open entry for EU nationals  on which EU leaders Francois Hollande and Angela Merkel  are so far firmly against making concessions.

In a follow-up analysis Alan Travis the Home Editor quotes an earlier statement by Dan Mullhall, the Republic’s ambassador to London.

 It seems to me that only a relatively small number of European Union citizens would want to come to the UK illegally.”

Mulhall said in the “worst-case scenario” that the UK government decided to curb freedom of movement to prevent all other EU citizens living and working in Britain, the Irish border would not pose an additional risk. All EU citizens would presumably still have the right to enter and visit Britain and pass any external passport control, so any future work permit system would likely be enforced with internal checks by employers through a registration, national insurance or identity card system.”

The report is a neat piece of spin to draw attention to the use of  technology for border administration, allowing it to happen elsewhere than the literal border line. If tech can soften the hard border issue for illegal immigration, then it can fudge for the other categories. Or so the two governments  hope. That, and help win the agreement of the 26 other EU members.

 

 

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  • hgreen

    Controlling the movement of people will be straightforward enough. What about customs checks?

  • Brendan Heading

    Great story by Henry who seems to be the first to get some real meat on what the UK government are hoping to do here.

    I’m not quite sure that it as simple as the UK government might be hoping for, for several reasons. Sharing information between the two governments is straightforward in the EU context where the two states have similar immigration arrangements.

    Following brexit, the two states will not have similar immigration arrangements and the sharing is no longer balanced, as the Irish government will now have to collect details – rather than simply check them – on all movements of EU citizens over its borders for no purpose other than to pass them on to the British government in case there are EU citizens the UK wishes to know about. It seems like a major step to have a situation where your details are being passed to the government of another state you may well have no intention of entering; I wonder what precedent there is for this in immigration law.

    On top of this, it’s not clear what they’ll accomplish. If the UK decide to deport an EU citizen, there’s still nothing they can do to prevent that citizen from re-entering the UK by crossing the NI border unless they want to start border enforcement. Surely they don’t expect the Irish government to trace the movements of people who have broken no criminal law within Ireland or the EU, and prevent those people from leaving the jurisdiction via the land border ?

  • OneNI

    Really don’t understand the confusion about this. The Republic and the UK are not in Schengen so both countries can maintain a Common External Border (CEB) and share information. Some say that this is effectively handing the control of the Republic’s borders to the UK but there is mutual benefit in this scenario.
    Some are saying ‘how do Brexiteers reconcile this with ‘taking back control’’ as if there will be some easy way in via the Republic – this is nonsense. All non EU nationals will continue to face the same restrictions to enter both the Republic and the UK – but info will be shared – little change there. EU nationals will continue to be free to enter both the Republic and the UK so little change there.
    The only difference is that EU nationals WILL have the right to settle and work in the Republic but not in UK.
    So those who mock the Brexiteers seem to be suggesting what precisely? That EU nationals (non Irish) – rather than travelling directly to the UK and work/settling illegal might travel via the ‘backdoor’ – the Republic – (who will share this info anyhow with the UK) into the UK?
    The only Tiny number of people who will be affected are non Irish Republic EU nationals who LIVE in the Republic and WORK in NI. Conceivably some form of local solution could be created.
    Were the Republic to go down any other route then all non EU nationals including Irish Republic citizens who Live in the Republic and Work in NI (many hundreds of people could indeed be disrupted).

  • Kevin Breslin

    When it becomes clear that vital freedoms on the movement of goods have been sacrificed for entirely pointless barriers to the freedom of movement of people in Ireland, the existential purpose of why there’s a Northern Ireland will certainly be more questionable.

  • Brendan Heading

    Some say that this is effectively handing the control of the Republic’s borders to the UK but there is mutual benefit in this scenario.

    I don’t understand the mutual benefit. How does Ireland benefit from sharing information with the UK about citizens against whom it can take no action due to its membership of the single market & adoption of free movement ? Why exactly should Ireland foot the bill for the UK’s immigration requirements ?

    EU nationals will continue to be free to enter both the Republic and the UK so little change there.

    If brexit proceeds and the UK leaves the common market, EU nationals outside of Ireland will not be “free to enter the UK” without an appropriate visa or visa waiver.

  • OneNI

    Ffollowing Brexit how will the two states immigration arrangements have changed? increasingly we have common visa arrangements

    Collect v checking – I’m afraid you simply dont understand the technology

    ‘Major step’ of sharing. If Both Govts declare sharing travellers can take it or leave it (is this simply making public the realite?)

    Re-deportation I assume they’ll deport them to someone other than the Republic ie where they came from? And yes expect the Republic not to re-admit either

  • OneNI

    Mutual benefit – essentially if they dont it will be the Republic that is imposing a hard border

    As for ‘footing the bill’ lets remember that Irish Nationals WILL retain the right to move to UK and to settle and work there. Notwithstanding the Republic recent economic success that right is extremely valuable and essentially the Republic’s citizens will have freedoms and rights in the UK ahead of citizens from the other 25 EU states.

    Also if you want to get down to brass tacks (and I would suggest you dont) the Republic does not pay for Irish citizens (resident in GB) being treated on the NHS in GB

  • Kevin Breslin

    There is a key difference Republic of Ireland not being in Schengen is not that relevant when it comes to having the advantage of two way free movement with the EU. There’s a strong possibly that U.K. will not have 2 way free movement rights, that does mean action in the Republic of Ireland.

    The CTA-Schengen barrier is merely a security check border not a real travel border with document checks which the UK is likely to engineer in Britain while failing to engineer in Southern Ireland where it has no democratic legitimacy to.

    There may still be a migration border between Britain and Ireland, mainly due to hysteria from Britain.

  • lizmcneill

    A migration barrier between the islands or along the land border?

  • lizmcneill

    Irish citizens having the right to settle, probably. What about citizens of other EU countries who have a right to settle in Ireland but not the UK?

  • lizmcneill

    Why would the Reupublic refuse to re-admit someone who had entered a non-EU country illegally? Can they even do that?

  • OneNI

    Sorry Liz dont understand your question? In essence Irish citizens retain equal status in UK in return for not implementing a Hard border. Citizens of other EU countries will have to have a job before moving to UK and after 5 years can obtain citizenship through residency

  • lizmcneill

    I’m looping back to Brendan’s question. How do you stop the EU citizens who can legally enter and remain in Ireland from illegally entering and remaining in the UK without a job, via Northern Ireland?

  • Reader

    Kevin Breslin: The CTA-Schengen barrier is merely a security check border not a real travel border with document checks which the UK…
    Of course there are document checks. Why do you think there is a migrant camp in Calais if there was an easy way round?

  • Reader

    “How do you stop…”
    You don’t. Dan Mulhall gave you the clues in the article. EU citizens can get in via Ireland, but they could come in as tourists via Gatwick anyway. The issue is whether they have a reason to stay as illegal workers. No NHS, no schools for the children, no legal employment, no working tax credits.
    Stop looking for the Trump wall, you won’t find it here.

  • Reader

    hgreen: What about customs checks?
    Why bother with customs checks on the border? From the UK point of view it doesn’t look cost effective.

  • OneNI

    But EU citizens will still be able to freely travel directly to the UK so they dont need to travel via the Republic? The change is that they will not be allowed to settle or work unless they are coming to take up a job offer.
    Indeed the only problem I perceive is that as the Irish economy continues to improve, the eurozone continues to stagnate and the option of the UK is restricted to those with job offers, the Republic may find increasing numbers of migrants turning up and not necessarily finding work /and or driving down wages in unskilled areas in particular. This could feed resentment in the Republic

  • chrisjones2

    You keep confusing movement with residence and right to work

    More listening, less writing might help

  • chrisjones2

    That’s fine ….but then it will foot the bill for a hard border the UK doesn’t want but the EU will demand. And the Irish are desperate to protect their UK markets ..that’s the real agenda for Ireland.

  • chrisjones2

    Who wants to stop them entering? But they cannot avail of services or work…that is the issue

  • chrisjones2

    “The change is that they will not be allowed to settle or work unless they are coming to take up a job offer.”

    Unless they do a deal with the UK …which the UK may be open to

  • chrisjones2

    Yes but they will then commit a criminal offence and can be arrested, They cannot rent accommodation here find work or use UK services

  • chrisjones2

    Again a lot can be managed electronically …the reality is very few personal travellers undergo a customs check now ….unless they are on a high risk rote from eg the Middle East or Caribbean

  • Katyusha

    Citizens of other EU countries will have to have a job before moving to UK

    I don’t understand how this can possibly work with freedom of movement between Ireland and GB. If EU nationals can enter the UK without a job, what’s to stop them entering the UK to look for a job, or even living in the UK in a HMO or rented apartment while they search for work?

    They won’t be able to claim unemployment benefit, but that would only put them on the same level as most other EU states with contributions-based unemployment insurance.

  • Kevin Breslin

    You keep confusing EU’s migration laws with British ones. There is a strong possibility that the UK will not have the right to reside or work or even travel in some cases to Schengen nations depending on what the UK comes up with.

    There may still be a migration border between Britain and Ireland, mainly due to hysteria from Britain.

    Indeed I have listened to Norman Lamont propose the very border that I am talking about.

    More reading, less dreaming.

  • Kevin Breslin

    And how many of those migrants have legitimate EU passports/visas …? None.

    How many more documents do you think the UK will insist EU citizens produce?

    Why do you think the EU response to UK controls will not be reciprocated at the very least at Schengen level?

  • Kevin Breslin

    Islands … both Lamont and Cameron have suggested this.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Here’s the thing, there is already a customs border … and that will be further increased as the UK breaks the UK-ROI hegemony by leaving the EU Customs Union.

    There’s pretty much been a customs border since the declaration of the Republic and customs checks up onto the 1990’s. There was a lot of work and good will needed to get remove the barriers.

    I’ll try to explain this issue very simply why the United Kingdom’s Customs’ policy will not apply automatically to the Republic of Ireland, therefore doing away with the need for customs checks.

    United Kingdom – Its customs office is Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e7a2a6d81b05e8825a6809f78c5a5a0d4a001e9fec8272aa29b6abc0c05acd86.jpg

    Republic of Ireland – Its customs office is NOT Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/879025eb8d9e48bbf9ca56fa3441b105f9177ec14b0db99fb40d594a8eedf80d.jpg

    And the reason for this is very simply Republic of Ireland is NOT in the United Kingdom.

    I know they both opted for green, but that’s merely a cozy conformity here.

    It’s difficult for British people and particularly Unionists to grapple with that concept despite the fact there’s been customs checks from 1920’s-1990’s. Only the EU did away with them.

    I’m going on 34, I don’t remember the worst of customs or checkpoints … but you really couldn’t blame the European Economic Community as to why the UK and ROI had them on their border.

    If it’s not cost effective then why is the UK unilaterally deciding World Trade Organisation rules are a good thing? Is it because Brexit has forced their hand in terms of global trade law perhaps?

    It may be the case that the World Trade Organisation is the one enforcing hard borders, despite all the good will in the world from the European Union and Republic of Ireland and doing so with the United KIngdom’s government’s blessing.

  • Kevin Breslin

    That can happen now within the European Union.

    If renting accommodation or finding work or using UK services becomes “criminalized” for EU workers because of the politicians have been drinking too much jingo juice then positive economic migration, and their ability to deal with skills shortages is under threat.

  • Katyusha

    the Republic does not pay for Irish citizens (resident in GB) being treated on the NHS in GB

    Why on earth would it be expected to, when those Irish citizens working in GB are paying into the NHS through their tax and National Insurance?

  • Reader

    Kevin Breslin: How many more documents do you think the UK will insist EU citizens produce?
    None. Come to the UK, stop off at Carrick-a-rede and Edinburgh Castle and Buckingham Palace, spend money, visit friends.
    But if you want to work; apply for a national Insurance number. If you want to use the NHS, or claim working tax credits, it’s not going to be as simple as it was.
    Look at the above – exactly none of it needs to happen at a border.
    I have no idea what your third paragraph is about. If you’re talking about the reciprocation of a hypothetical response to a hypothetical control it’s probably time you stopped. I expect we will actually end up with a more or less symmetrical situation with no tendency to escalate.

  • Reader

    Kevin Breslin: I’ll try to explain this issue very simply why the United Kingdom’s Customs’ policy will not apply automatically to the Republic of Ireland, therefore doing away with the need for customs checks.
    Your simple explanation didn’t actually explain anything. I think you are assuming that the UK will think it is worthwhile to check goods at the Irish border with the UK. That looks expensive and unrealistic.
    A country that is outside the EU can (a) say “that looks expensive and unrealistic.” and then (b) just not do it.
    I think you have got as far as (a) but not made the crucial step to (b). You’re so attached to the EU that you can’t imagine that the bureaucrats don’t have to win.

  • OneNI

    Technically the Republic remains an independent country, outside of Schengen

  • Kevin Breslin

    You’ve pretty much failed to convince me that there won’t be checks …

    Look it’s very simple … I’ll repeat the key message and try to elaborate a bit better.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/36ac6dd64cb5b0b06f170b370c1a219cb1e63c8c00d648895e2b89e890aee964.png

    If the UK has a customs body and ROI has a SEPARATE customs body … and they are Not in the Same Customs Union … then variations between UK and ROI customs policies require customs checks.

    Even if the ROI was to leave the EU, variations between UK and ROI customs policies require customs checks.

    The UK was happy to have customs checks with ROI from the 1920’s to 1990’s … what really has changed?

    This emanates from the arrogant belief that ROI is still a UK colonial asset, and the international affairs of Westminster still apply there.

    I have clearly demonstrated the flaw in that argument because Cáin agus Custaim na hÉireann is not Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, and Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs is not Cáin agus Custaim na hÉireann.

    Has ROI started obeying HMRC’s differing rules now that it has absolutely no democratic say in now?

    Will the UK retain a degree of commonality with the European Union on customs policies like Turkey does?

    There is clearly a democratic deficit from Brexit over who actually says what customs laws apply to the border, for either of these situations isn’t there?

    Would the UK and ROI be willing to surrender sovereignty over customs to a third body like the Nordics do?

    So I don’t think either’s going to scrap their entire Customs policy simply for convenience sake.

    “It’s expensive and inconvenient so we won’t care and we won’t bother” is a poor poor explanation or solution.

    It’s expensive and inconvenient …?

    So’s Paying down the National Deficit …
    So’s Nuclear Decommissioning …
    So’s Trident …

    The UK still does these things because it believes there is an even greater expense and inconvenience from not doing these things

    Hate to break it to you, the Irish border is not immune from this calculation either, simply because Northern Irish people don’t want it to be is not a comprehensive financial argument.

    The UK fairly cares about fuel smugglers, will they be turning a blind eye to that activity in their “free trade” deals?

    Free Trade deals are nothing more than a bit of a smuggler’s amnesty, after all.

  • Kevin Breslin

    I have no idea what your third paragraph is about. If you’re talking about the reciprocation of a hypothetical response to a hypothetical control it’s probably time you stopped. I expect we will actually end up with a more or less symmetrical situation with no tendency to escalate.

    Right so the EU’s retaliation is that British workers in the European Union including the Republic of Ireland will have to face excessive paper barriers to getting jobs in other countries.

    So the long list of scientists, engineers, financiers, marketers and advertisers, bankers, business people, legal firms, service providers and traders who happen to be e.g Bulgarian, Romanian, Polish, Lithuanian, Slovenian, Slovakian, Maltese, Latvian, Italian, Portuguese, French, German, Danish, Swedish, Finnish, Spanish, Greek, Croatian, Czech, Cypriot, Luxembourgian, Belgian, Dutch, Estonian, Hungarian, Austrian, Norwegian, Icelandic or perhaps even Irish are going to be curtailed from practicing in the United Kingdom and you somehow think the EU & EEA would be unwilling or unable to implement parity?

    They have in Switzerland … it would mean British scientists, British engineers, British financiers, British marketers and advertisers, British bankers, British business people, British legal firms … British service providers even British traders being treated on reciprocal terms as the “Polish immigrants” of the West.

    … All these people face sanctions to their business in the European Union because if any of them have a heart attack in France or Germany or Croatia they’re entitled to no public services and no European Health card coverage.

    You do realize that a UKIP MEP is doing that “evil thing” of using another nation’s healthcare system without paying for it as we speak?

    Do you realize?

    He was given healthcare regardless of how useful he was to the local economy, do you have a problem with that?

    Is the European Health Card something worth sacrificing for the ability to renege from European Health Card reciprocity?

    I mean it’s not as if Britons are physiologically different from any other Europeans that they require a different type of healthcare is it?

    Is the UK happy enough to be treated by the EU, in the same manner that the UK wants to treat the lowest common denominator of EU citizens in terms of their rights?

    I don’t believe it is, I don’t believe it wants to be and I don’t believe it has the humility to accept parity of esteem in order to cut a deal.

    I firmly believe the UK will make it completely impossible for any nation to treat them like an equal partner because of a nationalistic superiority complex.

  • Brendan Heading

    Mutual benefit – essentially if they dont it will be the Republic that is imposing a hard border

    eh ? It is the UK which wishes to introduce border controls.

    Also if you want to get down to brass tacks (and I would suggest you dont) the Republic does not pay for Irish citizens (resident in GB) being treated on the NHS in GB

    Sensationalism – Irish citizens living and working in GB pay UK taxes and national insurance like everyone else.

  • Brendan Heading

    Stop looking for the Trump wall, you won’t find it here.

    The notion that it is sufficient to enforce immigration law domestically, rather than at national/international borders, is certainly a curious one. Why not go the full way and abandon all immigration checks on entry, close the camp at Calais and let the police mop it up ?

  • Brendan Heading

    But EU citizens will still be able to freely travel directly to the UK so they dont need to travel via the Republic?

    Okay. I think we’ve been talking across purposes.

    You’re talking about a scenario where the UK allows EU citizens to freely enter and exit. In this case, there is, of course, no need for any border enforcement between the UK and Ireland and there is no need for the UK and Irish authorities to co-operate any more than they are now.

    The scenario I think the rest of us are talking about, and I suspect at least a substantial chunk of the brexit supporters wish to see, is one where EU citizens cannot freely enter or exit without a valid visa, visa waiver, or other reciprocal transit arrangements.

    While it is in everyone’s interests to keep free movement in place, there is no guarantee that it would happen, and there has been no commitment to it by the UK government.

  • Brendan Heading

    That’s fine ….but then it will foot the bill for a hard border the UK doesn’t want but the EU will demand

    You seem to be a bit confused here Chris.

    The people who want to keep borders open are the EU.

    The people who want to restrict borders are the UK, specifically those who voted brexit.

  • Brendan Heading

    Yes but they will then commit a criminal offence and can be arrested, They cannot rent accommodation here find work or use UK services

    It appears to have escaped the notice of at least some that domestic enforcement of immigration law is widely perceived as not working very well. The criminal penalties for illegal immigrants working in the US has not deterred 11 million (estimated) immigrants from doing exactly that. These figures are despite significant resources being spent in the US to try to stop it.

    It’s great that you are content that no border enforcement is required – that makes us both happy. Unfortunately it is not going to please the elements who supported brexit in the belief that leaving the EU will prevent people from entering the UK to work illegally.

  • Brendan Heading

    Yes, but as an EEA member the Republic cannot prevent an EU citizen from entering its jurisdiction unless there are issues around criminality.

    “criminality” in this case cannot include UK immigration law; otherwise the Republic would end up in a situation where it has to enforce UK immigration law at its own borders, which would be incompatible with its EU membership.

  • Brendan Heading

    Ffollowing Brexit how will the two states immigration arrangements have changed?

    It may change if the UK ends free movement of European citizens.

    increasingly we have common visa arrangements

    On a trial basis, for certain countries, only – the UK’s departure from the EU is unlikely to help with this

    Collect v checking – I’m afraid you simply dont understand the technology

    I work in IT and I can assure you that I fully understand the difference between checking EU entrants off, say, a criminal database, and recording the details of every EU entrant in order to ensure that newly imposed immigration rules are not being breached.

    ‘Major step’ of sharing. If Both Govts declare sharing travellers can take it or leave it (is this simply making public the realite?)

    Maybe.

    Re-deportation I assume they’ll deport them to someone other than the Republic ie where they came from? And yes expect the Republic not to re-admit either

    This amounts to requiring the Republic to enforce UK immigration law. I don’t see how that is politically sustainable, as it amounts to a form of ceding sovereignty over who may or may not enter the RoI jurisdiction to the UK.

  • Reader

    Kevin Breslin: If the UK has a customs body and ROI has a SEPARATE customs body … and they are Not in the Same Customs Union … then variations between UK and ROI customs policies require customs checks.
    I do not accept that there is any force in your use of the word ‘require’. “Sez who?”, say I.

    In my young days I remember my parents’ car was occasionally stopped at the border by your guys looking for contraceptives (or bootlaces, or brandy, or whatever it was). Ireland has moved on, and so has the UK. The UK will not care if a car boot full of Greek yoghurt makes its way to Dungannon via Ballygobackwards, dodging 5% tariffs on the wholesale price. It would cost far more to stop it.
    As for a lorry load of raw materials, would a company voluntarily pay a 10% tariff rather than forego a corporate tax credit? I think it would.
    As for a container load of washing machines for Basingstoke – that will be stopped at Larne.
    Your argument that starts with the catastrophic economic and political cost of customs at the border but then assumes that the UK will do it anyway. You have forgotten that boneheaded bureaucratic stupidity will no longer be mandatory following Brexit.
    Ireland may have to build customs posts, but that is only because they are in the EU. Even so, Ireland will probably not man the posts. How much do they care about a car boot full of Ghanaian cocoa anyway?

  • Brendan Heading

    You have forgotten that boneheaded bureaucratic stupidity will no longer be mandatory following Brexit.

    I wish I shared your faith that the UK will be pragmatic and sensible about this – I hope you are right – but I fear you may be wrong. The other day, UK government ministers publicly floated the idea of requiring all employers to submit reports on the number of foreign workers they had, essentially duplicating the information that the government would already have in its possession in the form of its work permit records. That sounds like boneheaded bureaucratic stupidity to me. It took them several days to publicly recant.

    The fear here is coming from the fact that nobody is quite sure who is in charge in the UK and what kind of mandate the government has to adopt a pragmatic attitude to immigration.

  • Kevin Breslin

    I’m impressed at your arrogance here, I mean I basically did all but spell it out for you … Her Majesty’s Revenue and what? Yes Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. What commands the UK to check UK customs …The Queen commands!

    Without Customs, HMRC would just be HMR.

    Do you really think the UK is going to scrap its internal customs checks because a measly poor 2% of its population have visible inland trade borders?

    If the UK Government …Sorry … the Queen doesn’t care about their or her Customs, could they or she please stop the fraud and remove the term from their or her office?

    It’s very simple … If the UK hates the beaurocracy of Revenues and Customs and all these issues … Simply scrap HMRC … Get the tax money from magic and miracles, because Brexit seems highly reliant on them.

    The fact is that the UK government will create this customs border, possibly a trade barrier too, and there is nothing any Northern Irish Unionist can really do about it.

    The U.K. will build means for doing their customs checks and collecting their tariffs just as they did before they joined the EEC. Just as the USA, Singapore, Switzerland, China, Norway, Australia, New Zealand, Russia, Brazil, Mexico, South Africa, Japan, Saudi Arabia etc. all do in their nations.

    The U.K. had customs checks and tariff barriers with every major nation including the Republic of Ireland before joining the EU, and will end up doing so again.

    If David Davies wants his WTO tariffs to apply, then he needs the means of collecting them. He needs a means of checking the customs protocols.

    Why do you think they were looking into drones? You need to realise you’re not King of England, you’ve no right whatsoever to take Her Majesty’s Customs away, you usurper! Nor does Arlene Foster, nor does Thresea May if she intends to use Royal perogative.

    This issue isn’t going to be fixed by a corporation tax cut, or any other unilateral action from the United Kingdom.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Merely changing migration law means adding more boneheaded bureaucratic stupidity to EU services exporters. To many Eurosceptics, the U.K. only wants free trade deals with nations that accept Britain’s boneheaded bureaucratic stupidity and not the collective boneheaded bureaucratic stupidity of a bilateral treaty.

    Wait until they realise that arrogance, selfishness and egotism is universal, that’s why political unities so to speak in the form of treaties get made. Trading at the lowest common denominator leads to a race to the bottom.

  • OneNI

    All in hand it seems http://bit.ly/2dHKFl5

  • john millar

    “Following brexit, the two states will not have similar immigration arrangements and the sharing is no longer balanced, as the Irish government will now have to collect details – rather than simply check them ”

    Not needed
    If the ROI wants to admit non EC immigrants in the expectation that they will exit to the UK — good luck with that.

    EC migrants ? to the UK via the ROI ? -UK simply adopt the Italian ( EC approved) system of residence permits -if its legal in Italy surely legal in UK?

    http://www.poliziadistato.it/articolo/10723-EC_residence_permit_for_long_term_residents/d

    Try living in Italy without one

  • john millar

    I suggest you acquire some knowledge on duty and taxation structures

    DUTY is charged on imports -currently all import duty collected is all sent to the EC With brexit- any duty charged may be retained by the UK.

    TAX –has many faces the big contributions come from
    Income Tax (Pay as you earn) and National Insurance contributions
    Vat
    Excise duties on alcohol etc

    The other taxes (corporation tax ,Inheritance etc) are relatively small contributors

    http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/4001/economics/tax-revenue-sources-in-uk/

    Apart from keeping any import duty collected there will be no need to alter the present tax regimes

  • Kevin Breslin

    Even if there were no import duties … there would still need to be customs controls outside the EU Customs Union. The idea that the UK will turn a blind eye to any import into the UK or out of the UK the same way, is a tad laughable.

    The UUP have suggested some of the UK’s customs may be done in Dublin Airport now, but such a bilateral arrangement is not yet in place.

    If the UK wants WTO tariffs to apply … Lassiez-Faire Hard Brexit approach … he needs a means of collecting the tax from Irish and other EU imports. That means people checking them.

  • john millar

    “The UUP have suggested some of the UK’s customs may be done in Dublin Airport now, but such a bilateral arrangement is not yet in place.”

    I think you are confusing Customs (Goods) with Immigration (People)

    “If the UK wants WTO tariffs to apply … Lassiez-Faire Hard Brexit approach … he needs a means of collecting the tax from Irish and other EU imports. That means people checking them.”

    Apart from NI the UK is an island “imports” must arrive by air and sea . Reversion to older systems -imports only at approved ports and airports plus the old draconian penalties for lawbreaking -problem largely solved.

    Transfers into NI will have to transit to GB see above re GB is an island

  • hotdogx

    The border should be on the Irish Sea, and you know fine well that it should, we should not have to impose restrictions on ourselves because Britain decided to go for this Brexit nonsense and if we ended up with a Calais “Junge” situation it would be a real disaster.
    So, the British made this mess, let them clean it up, the Irish people (everyone on this island together for those of us that have trouble with this concept) should vote exclusively on this and that’s it!
    The result with the border at the Irish Sea solves the problem. Now if unionism can’t accept that then we should push seriously for a UI, assisted by Europe and finish once and for all with the interference of SE England.