Kenny tells EU to prepare for prospect of a Border Poll

Just in from the Irish Independent;

#BREAKING Taoiseach Enda Kenny has said the Government and the EU must prepare seriously for the prospect of a border poll. More to follow

— Independent.ie (@Independent_ie) July 18, 2016

Quotes from Enda;

The discussion and negotiations that take place over the next period should take into account the possibility, however far out it might be, that the clause in the Good Friday Agreement might be triggered and that if there is a clear evidence of a majority of people wishing to leave the United Kingdom and join the Republic that that should be catered for in the discussions that take place,”

Because if that possibility were to happen, you would have Northern Ireland wishing to leave the United Kingdom, not being a member of the European Union, and joining the Republic which will be a member of the EU,

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  • Alan N/Ards

    How was it a silly question, Hugh? Am I a racist because Antrim Gael heard a handful of unionists ranting and raving about Islam?

  • lizmcneill

    I did. Yet the Tories are still there.

  • chrisjones2

    “Unfortunately, it is the nature of racism that we are all brought up racist whether we like it or not. ”

    I wasnt. Nor were my children

  • chrisjones2

    May you enjoy thy beer and I hope it helps wash away the bitter taste of disappointment

  • chrisjones2

    Ah …so we now have the economic unionists (much more palatable a title than half crowners)

    I suggest that many of the commentators here audition for new jobs in Hollywood

  • Brendan Heading

    I’d agree. Dismantling the NHS kicks away another critical differentiator in favour of the union.

  • Brendan Heading

    NI doesn’t have an economy, or at least one not worth talking about.

    Utter drivel. Hundreds of thousands of people live and work in NI. All of them are effected by decisions made in London.

    Hand-outs aren’t an economy by the way.

    Yes they are. A 100% state-operated economy is still an economy.

  • Brendan Heading

    No, it isn’t clear at all.

    I cannot see how my argument can be made any simpler to a person of reasonable intelligence who can understand English and following a deductive argument.

    There are is only one restriction placed upon when a Secretary of State can call an border poll outlined in the legislation, and that is to limit the frequency of polls to 7 years. No other restrictions are present.

    I really have no more time to waste on this, or on a tedious discussion about who said what. I don’t care what various people believe the law says, I care about what it actually says in the text, which is what will take precedence if this matter comes before the courts.

    Incidentally :

    At least you appear to be no longer claiming that MPs CHOSE not to seek to amend the clause to impose a restriction

    False – I am still claiming that MPs had the option to make the criterion for calling a poll more strict, and chose not to exercise that option, and I said nothing to the contrary. Maybe part of the problem here might be you reading into things that are not there ?

  • NotNowJohnny

    It’s remarkable that you continue to repeat pretty much what you said previously as if this adds anything to the discussion. It it any wonder you view it as a waste of time. The point I raised was as regards the relationship between paragraph 1 and paragraph 2, something which you continue to fail to address. Instead you continue to point out how clear the English is. Yes, of course I understand what the legislation says. There is no debate about what the legislation says. It is about what the legisltion means. I guess I will continue to await a legal view from the courts or otherwise as that will at least set out some basis for the view taken rather than making comments about English and intelligence.

  • John Collins

    The last time we in the South were in the UK, from 1801 to 1922, it was a disaster for our part of the country. Our population dropped by around 30% in that period, while that of mainland GB rose by about 170%

  • John Collins

    Cherish us, the same way GB did from 1801 to 1922. Thanks but no thanks.

  • Reader

    liz, Declan – yer man is correct – the first link is to an actual decline in the last quarter. You arent being shown a change in the rate of growth, you are being shown negative growth in the last quarter. (as one of the links actually said “The Irish economy contracted 2.1 percent on the quarter in the three months to March 2016”).
    Annual growth in the last year is still positive – maybe that is what Declan means.
    However, quarterly growth rates are all over the place so (1) there’s no point in anyone but a hopeless pedant trying to differentiate them and (2) fingers crossed, eh?

  • Reader

    Hugh, there are many types of freedom – notably freedom from X and freedom to Y. I could desire a thousand freedoms, and no state in the world would give me more than a very few.
    OK then, so one that you value is “freedom of movement (within the EU)”. This is only possible because the EU rejects freedom of movement from countries outside the EU. Does that restriction on the freedom of other people mark the EU as an oppressor of everyone outside the EU? Does every freedom that you can name have to be granted?
    As for the original context in which I used the term – I would use my vote in a border poll to try to prevent being brought into a United Ireland. The ability to cast that vote is a freedom too.
    As for your final Paragraph – I took the screen name Reader on Slugger long ago because it was relevant to the content of my very first post. It has been easier to stick with it than to change it.

  • Reader

    Ciaran O’Connor: …with you on top of Cavehill waving the claymore, with the full wode-kilt-Nelson McCausland thing going on.
    If you could only get past your Mel Gibson obsession. I suppose it’s the recent hot weather.
    I’m actually more the O’Donovan Rossa type, only without the famous threatening prognostication.

  • Brendan Heading

    It’s remarkable that you continue to repeat pretty much what you said previously as if this adds anything to the discussion

    An act of desperation in the face of you repeatedly saying that you can’t understand what my point is.

    The point I raised was as regards the relationship between paragraph 1 and paragraph 2, something which you continue to fail to address.

    You are winding me up. I have addressed it repeatedly. I said that it imposes a requirement on the Secretary of State when certain conditions apply. I said that it does not impose a restriction.

    I guess I will continue to await a legal view from the courts or otherwise as that will at least set out some basis for the view taken rather than making comments about English and intelligence.

    It is unlikely that the matter will ever go to court. The Secretary of State is not compelled to call a referendum until the requirements in paragraph 2 are satisfied. The only scenarios I can see it going to court are :

    1. if there is a nationalist majority in an election but the SoS refuses to call a poll
    2. if the SoS calls a border poll without a nationalist majority (which I believe is possible) and a legal attempt is made to prevent it. I believe that a legal challenge to prevent a poll would fail.

  • Brendan Heading

    Northern Ireland doesn’t have an economy, as I stated ‘worth talking about’,

    You didn’t. You only qualified your original comment with “worth talking about” when I challenged you.

    Not interested in wasting time arguing with someone who can’t stand over their own original comments – I’ve to get up in the morning and go to my private sector job in an economy that doesn’t exist, and I need to make sure I don’t get stuck in the traffic jams along with all the other people travelling to jobs that aren’t there.

  • Brendan Heading

    love the assumption that every Catholic in NI (or Non Unionist) is anti Brexit

    This assumption is entirely reasonable. I’d welcome any evidence to the contrary.

  • Brendan Heading

    I’m a Catholic and I abhor all terrorism from all quarters

    Yeah, right.

  • NotNowJohnny

    I had no intention of continuing this discussion however I am somewhat surprised that you now seem to be recognising that a decision by the SOS to call a border poll in the absence of a nationalist majority might be subject to a legal challenge. If the legislation is as clear as you appear to be claiming (‘it’s in plain English’ I think was how you described it to me) and there is no legal test as regards whether the SOS can call a border poll, then what possible grounds would there be for a legal challenge? Surely the fact that you are acknowledging that there may be grounds for a legal challenge indicates that the legislation is not as clear as you seem to claim. This may explain why the previous SoS, MPs during the debate on the bill and the HoC Library researchers appear to have a different view to you and, in the absence if a legal opinion are therefore as likely (or perhaps more likely) to be correct as you with your layman’s interpretation. (It’s unfortunate that you didn’t set out your reasons why you believe it would fail as this may have provided the explanation I have been seeking all along).

    Perhaps I have misunderstood your point all along but has your point not always been that there is no legal test to be passed in order for the SOS to lawfully call a border poll (for the first time) in the absence of a nationalist majority?

  • submariner

    If the hat fits and all that.

  • Hugh Davison

    Of course you’re not. You’re just concerned for our welfare when those 2 million immigrants arrive.

  • submariner

    Yeah the Protestant kind pretending to be a catholic.

  • Hugh Davison

    No, Alan. I’m not accusing you of racism. You just asked a question which demanded a factual answer that you could have more accurately answered yourself, but perhaps it was a rhetorical question, and perhaps I shouldn’t have joined a bunfight between yourself and AG. Apologies.

  • Brendan Heading

    Ciaran, you are arguing with yourself. Nobody is trying to pretend that NI is some sort of economic powerhouse. That doesn’t mean that its “economy does not exist”. It does exist and employs nearly a million people.

    The idea that an economy cannot tank because it is dominated by public sector spending is nonsensical. Pulling the plug on public spending has the same effect as withdrawing private sector investment; people lose jobs and the private sector investment supporting the public spending is also withdrawn. Only a sociopath would be unconcerned at the impact of decisions of this kind.

    If you want to drum up arguments that people haven’t made and then shoot them down, maybe you might have more fun doing it in front of a mirror.

  • chrisjones2

    I support controlled immigration …read what i have posted on this – and welcome the diversity it brings. I would prefer to see many more coming here from our former Commonwealth states too as I feel we owe them a debt . I dont care if they are black, white, grey, yelloiw, green or purple. I dont care what religion they have have if any. The only issue is that they add to our society and we all integrate

  • chrisjones2

    I am not so sure that is what Kenny is trying to do

    It may be a mistake to assume that HE knows what hes trying to do

  • chrisjones2

    You left out pricking the balloons of pomposity

    ….. or do I mean the pomposity of the balloons?

  • chrisjones2

    Thats democracy for you

  • chrisjones2

    Thats like seeing the world is imperfect so inventing a diety to make ot all better ….and has just as much practical impact

  • chrisjones2

    …and not because Dublin refuses to invest in the culchie bits like Donegal and Kerry

  • chrisjones2

    See there you go again with the sterotyping

  • Oggins

    I will follow your line of thought Chris. It’s quite clearly who the balloon is, if you believe your opinion is the only opinion!!

  • Oggins

    No Chris, far from it, it’s called having a discussion. People are allowed to post their opinions, we god only know with the amount and type you post. Usually pompous and with fingers in your ears, shouting la la la.

  • Oggins

    Chris it obvious you don’t lack confidence, but do lack humility. I am impressed on your grasp of Gaelic. Did you learn that whilst on holidays to Bundoran?

  • Alan N/Ards

    Hugh, I wasn’t accusing you of calling me and unionists racists. Far from it. Antrim Gael seems to want to tar everyone with the same brush because he heard a number of people ranting about Islam.

  • Skibo

    Chris the man is not what I would call a Republican. What other possible conclusion could there be? He needs to show there is a special relationship between ROI and UK and trade negotiations should take this into account. He is merely trying to load the bases.

  • Tochais Siorai

    You’d hear it in Belfast a lot more than Bundoran.

  • John Collins

    Well Cameron never expected to lose the referendum. He is now being roundly condemned as being utterly irresponsible, for having no plan in place in case the unexpected happened. I think Kenny does not in any way desire a UI Ireland, or indeed expect it anytime soon, but he is just being careful in case the utterly unexpected happens again. Events my dear boy.

  • John Collins

    Well seeing the absolutely lavish investment bestowed on Derry/Londonderry, and indeed the West of Ni in general, by successive British Governments, Donegal and Kerry would probably be happier where they are

  • John Collins

    Hugh
    I have pointed those facts out to Chris and Barnshee et Al several times. There are none so blind as those who do not want to see.

  • grumpy oul man

    Cult!
    Well yes it would be a democracy of course, and why would we have a FF and SDLP coalition rather than any other party or coalition, why not a Green/left coalition.
    the voters will decide who runs the show, that how a democracy works.

  • grumpy oul man

    Awe polite as usual, what we love about you (as well as your famous grasp of the issues) no sorry a sect does not properly describe FF and FG anymore than it describes any other political party.
    But it does sound more sinister and that is always good when your point is weak.

  • grumpy oul man

    you will find a few unionists on this site who describe themselves as economic unionists, but if you are looking for something to be offended with then being offended at this shows how desperate you are to be offended!