More Brexitref alarms: could a Corbyn government deliver Irish unity?

When we’re taking about Brexit fears, Newton Emerson in the Irish Times has an outlier scenario that’s sounds plausible but is full of holes.   He imagines the possibility of an early UK election out of the post-referendum chaos regardless who wins, with the Conservatives in worse disarray than Labour. Jeremy Corbyn gets SNP support to form a government in exchange for a second referendum. Independence is won.  NI unionism is demoralised.  Corbyn reverts Labour to active support for a united Ireland, and unionism, which is already feeling warmer towards the south, succumbs under pressure.

Plausible?  Far out.

If the referendum triggers an earlier ballot, there is no guarantee that Cameron will be Labour’s opponent – both factions of his party are already calling for his head…

Labour still could not win, the pollsters assure us. But for unionists in Northern Ireland the most dangerous outcome is a narrow Labour defeat. Then Corbyn or McDonnell could be put in office by the Scottish nationalists, attracted by the very prospect of breaking up the UK…

Should Corbyn or McDonnell reach Number 10, ditching Northern Ireland would be as simple as turning off the money. The UK’s regional funding formula, on which Belfast’s £10 billion subvention depends, is merely a procedural convention that can be changed at the stroke of a pen – a pen the SNP would immediately brandish.

There’s a whole bundle of hypotheses here, each as doubtful as the other.

First,  an early election to the fixed term parliament requires either a vote of no confidence to stick for 14 days without reverse, or a two thirds majority to hold an election. Likely you think?

Second is a Scottish Indyref likely within two years  before the SNP knows the terms of r UK withdrawal in the event of Brexit or the oil price climbs?

Third even if Corbyn survives to fight the election as leader, why assume his old Livingstonian analysis of Irish unity would trump the fears of destabilisation shared by the dominant tendency among Labour MPs? The SNP haven’t a dog in the fight for NI’s status, so why should they care either way.

Would opinion in the NI Assembly have changed over the next few years  to allow Corbyn to trigger an NI referendum on unity and would the Republic oblige by holding its twin?

The notion of financial pressure on NI is ingenious but would require  the repeal of the NI Act 1998,and the abandonment of the Barnett process for all devolved areas. The latter might appeal to some English Tories but few others, least of all today’s SNP. Scotland will continue to receive a higher block grant from London than its slow population growth  merits, under the terms of  the fiscal framework  that accompanies the Scotland Act which has just devolved income tax powers to Scotland in phases. And NI please note, Westminster is giving the Scots extra cash to pay for their new welfare powers which are less than  the full welfare powers legally already devolved to Stormont but fully subsidised by London .

No, when the hysteria dies down the most likely outcome is Cameron dual wins in the Brexit referendum and over the leadership with a party that has a strong survival instinct, unlike Labour. But if you really want a bit of crack (sic), speculate on Theresa May as the next  Conservative leader – in 2019.

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  • chrisjones2

    Sorry but you are sounding desperate for a reason to post

    What next?

    Has a live dinosaur colony found in Lough Neagh?

    Are Fermanagh Footprints evidence that Yeti lives?

  • Brian Walker

    Pots and kettles?

  • hgreen

    I know Emerson doesn’t like Corbyn but now he’s just making stuff up to not like him about. Does he get paid to do this?

  • chrisjones2

    Brian – perhaps.

    I do welcome may of your posts and you can see that from the response – I hope. But sometimes I just think it goes too far

    Indeed I saw a meteorite last month. if it had been just 100 times bigger and on a different trajectory it might have wiped out life on earth ….maybe ….possibly

  • Declan Doyle

    Newton’s piece is just another example of Unionist paranoia gone mad. The more we are told by Unionism that there will never be a UI the more that paranoia seems to grow when the simple reality of voter choice hasn’t changed since the GFA was signed. It doesn’t matter if Gerry Adams becomes PM over in the UK and Mary lou becomes Queen of England; Irish Unity can only happen if a Majority vote in favour of it. That’s democracy, signed sealed and delivered.

  • Ernekid

    Chris you really seem to have a problem with Fermanagh. Did a girl leave you for a man from Irvinestown or something? Leave it out. Casual disparagement of the more rural areas ain’t big and it ain’t clever.

  • Zig70

    More to the point, does he pay for the advertising on here?

  • Chingford Man

    There are no conceivable circumstances in which a bonkers leftie terrorist-supporting non-entity like Corbyn could ever become Prime Minister. Any further speculation is irrelevant.

  • chrisjones2

    But one point you have missed Brian

    The EU has a secret plan to create a shared EU Army. Publication for the proposal is being held back until after the referendum. Its still not clear how far this will go but the Union is moving inexorably towards all the trappings of a unified state…one Army …one Tax system

    So will Enda be so keen on Irish troops joining this – will he even have a choice? What about Irish Neutrality – gone in a flash – or rather subcontracted to officials in Brussels. May Irish troops be deployed to counter Russian aggression? Along the Turkish border? And not as peace-keepers but as war fighters?

    Then there is the small problem of the nuclear weapons. Even if the hate Brits Exit what about the French? Will Ireland be keen to receive French ships carrying tactical nukes? To be part of a nuclear power? To have French aircraft on exercises carrying nukes over Ireland? Or British subs patrolling its coasts?

    I doubt it but the reality is they have lost the chance to decide. …. that’s why the UK needs to take stock and decide where its future lies. Perhaps Ireland should wake up and do the same – selling software, beef and bacon to the French isnt the only thing in life

    Now that is worth a debate!

  • chrisjones2

    Why do you assume he’s a Unionist. Saying things you dont like doesnt make him a Unionist

  • chrisjones2

    Oh do read the post. In mentioning Lough Neagh was I disparaging Counties Tyrone, Derry, Antrim and Armagh?

    Besides which the Yeti is alleged to live now… the dinosaurs live in Fermanagh and mostly seem to vote UUP

  • Brian Walker

    Secret except you and I know about it Chris. A paper tiger and if anything complementary to Nato by increasing European effectiveness in response to American pressure.

  • Skibo

    Chris is this not an old story? Ever heard about the Rapid Reaction Force?

  • Chingford Man

    How on earth do you know whether it is complementary or not? Are you one of the very few to have seen Mogherini’s proposals?

  • mickfealty

    Mark that last paragraph Chris? (Brian’s nailed something very important there.)

    It’s an elegant debunk. Probably the best analysis either side of the water today, at a guess.

  • eamoncorbett

    Declan , have you ever heard of a thing called “change ” it’s the thing that happens to all of us whether we like it or not , it can happen very quickly or very slowly but one things for sure it happens . Governments change , national boundaries change , individual circumstances change , we are powerless to stop it . The GFA will evolve and change as circumstances dictate . I don’t know if a UI will ever come about , but one thing I am sure about , a change is gonna come ,oh yes it will . (Sam Cooke).

  • mac tire

    They have a bit of a bonkers righty terrorist-supporter non-entity like Cameron at the moment, so don’t count your chickens.
    And, if you get your way and Britain leaves, then you’ll probably have an even more bonkers righty terrorist-supporting non-entity like Boris.

  • chrisjones2

    No…its a rival to NATO and has the US very worried

  • chrisjones2

    Nope..far beyond that …full blown EU Army controlled by the Commissioners in Brussels

  • chrisjones2

    ..and the readers of The Times and the Express and uncle Tom Cobley

  • chrisjones2

    Oh I agree almost completely with the last paragraph.

    I think it will be a narrow win for Remain, there will not be leadership challenge but within 12 months Cameron will be gone and, after a visitation from the Men in Grey Suits, George (the Tories Gordon Brown) will be persuaded that his career lies elsewhere. Boris too will be out of the running (too divisive and risky) an a uniting Fresh Face will take over the leadership in time to utterly destroy Labour in 20

    I was just teasing Brian on the volume of disparate posts!

  • Skibo

    How can the Commissioners control it? They are appointed by the National governments. Anyone who believes that the commissioners do anything without consulting the leaders of the national government are severely deluded.

  • Superfluous

    The EU won’t even get through a harmonisation of corporation taxes never mind an army.

  • Thomas Barber

    It is non elected commissioners who are secretly negotiating the new EU army just like the new EU Police force and the TTIP treaty and the Pooling of Sovereignty MEP’s are not even allowed to see the full details of the above agreements.

    Add in the reality of below Skibo, its obvious who’s pulling who’s strings in Europe and in what direction we are being railroaded.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/1356047/Euro-federalists-financed-by-US-spy-chiefs.html

    And how could anyone trust this man –

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-calls-sadiq-khan-proud-muslim-weeks-after-linking-him-to-islamic-extremist-a7056321.html

  • Lee

    The more it changes the more it stays the same

  • Declan Doyle

    He is an avowed Unionist, you clearly don’t read much of his stuff if u don’t know that.

  • Skibo

    Codswallop. The commissioners are appointed by national governments and will be open to censure by the European Parliament. Just because it has not happened before does not mean it was not threatened. Check previous times that it happened.
    They put legislation together for acceptance and once accepted ensure it is enacted.
    TTIP proposals http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/index.cfm?id=1230
    Pooling of sovereignty is how the UK came into existence. It is ok for the British Isles but not ok for EU.

  • Declan Doyle

    Eamonn, you are preaching to the converted. Yes change is the unavoidable unknown unknown, but it is something that many people try to resist in all strata of life, not least the political. Resistance is of course futile. But don’t tell the Unionists that…shhhhh

  • Skibo

    Now you have to accept that NI has changed substantially over the years since the GFA. Now SF are the purse holders. When did you ever think that a Unionist minister would have to plead his case for money to a SF Minister?

  • Lee

    I don’t know how you’ve managed to go off in this direction? From that wee homely phrase that I said.

  • Skibo

    The more it changes, the more it stays the same, daaaa dont think so!

  • Declan Doyle

    It is an interesting cliché which is valid across all levels of life. But it really means that people adapt and adjust in the aftermath of change much quicker than they previously expected.

  • Declan Doyle

    Utterly destroy labour? Maybe not? Sometimes it is smart not to let our hopes run away with us. As polling stands now, an election would result in a hung parliament but giving labour the advantage in forming a coalition government. Telegraph polling today also shows a surge for brexit. It’s all heating up.

  • Acrobat_747

    You’re selling this army idea to me. I’m beginning to like it!

  • chrisjones2

    Doh ….. thats the point.

    The Parliament is a useless largely hobbled dog. The Bureaucrats decide and are unaccountable

  • chrisjones2

    ‘open to censure by the European Parliament”

    Wow …. that will scare them wont it. And just when was a Commissioner last sacked for incompetence?

  • chrisjones2

    …or Republicans who fought for 30 eyars for a United Ireland and then realised that a large part of their own community wont vote for it

    Now what was that phrase – “politics for slow learners”

  • chrisjones2

    Yeas …except that just like his DUP predecessor the Finance Minister will be responsible to The Executive and will also have to go cap in hand to the Treasury in London

  • chrisjones2

    Desperation to have a UI?

  • mickfealty

    Sometimes it’s well worth taking two or three angles on the same subject.

  • chrisjones2

    Boundary changes blocked last time will cost Labour 40 seats. Corbyn perhaps another 40

  • murdockp

    won’t vote for their version of a united Ireland is more accurate I feel.

  • Skibo

    I know, some sandwich, DUP and British bread with a SF filling hahaha!

  • Skibo

    I guess it is designed on the system for the USA. It does mean that the Commissioners are not uncontrollable and while they have not been elected to the position, they are appointed by national governments that are. Most governments are actually run by civil servants who are not elected.

  • Skibo

    This is the rubbish that is put out for scare mongering. As I said previously, the commissioners are appointed by the national governments. The government leaders meet regularly and the main business is thrashed out there. The commissioners are rather like the heads of the Civil Service who make sure the work is carried out. The Commissioners are also answerable to the parliament and can be censured.

  • Declan Doyle

    “A protestant parliament for a protestant people”… what was that phrase again …..

  • ted hagan

    Newton’s piece is tongue in cheek, I presume. At the merest hint of an alliance between the SNP and Labour and England’s Labour supporters would run a mile. That’s what happened at the last election. Labour would be totally destroyed.

  • Kevin Breslin

    I don’t think Newton is paranoid in his commentary … overzealous, hyperbolic, cynical, right-wing, conservative, speculative, pessimistic, and a bit low brow on a few things … but never paranoid.

  • chrisjones2

    And just when was a Commissioner last sacked for incompetence?

  • chrisjones2

    you feel …..i feel …..schmiel ……………

    Its sill a dead parrot

  • Katyusha

    I for one would very much welcome a unified European army.

    Perhaps then we could finally act in our own military interests rather than be beholden to the US dominance of NATO, which acts solely in American interests and views the European nations as pawns on a chessboard rather than allies.

    Perhaps this would open the opportunity for Europe to actually work with the Russian Federation rather than engage in belligerence which is completely counter to both European and Russian interests; such as the pointless saber rattling over the Ukraine, the imposition of sanctions which were damaging to the EU economy and scuttled business relationships between European and Russian companies, and our inability to co-ordinate with the Russian military offensive in Syria, where the EU should be united in trying to eliminate the root cause of both the refugee crisis and the increased threat of terrorism on the European continent.

    In furtherance of its own interests, a European ground offensive in both Syria, or more particularly North Africa, could help establish an area of stability for those displaced by conflict and reduce the need for refugees to attempt the perilous journey to Europe. In theory, this type of peacekeeping should be conducted by UN forces, but both Russia and the US have prevented the UN from taking decisive military action in situations where there is a clear humanitarian need.

    I’d be much more open to welcoming French ships into Irish harbours than allowing CIA-organised rendition flights through Shannon, and for control of nuclear weapons in Europe to be placed under a neutral, pan-European authority, rather than placing the red button under the finger of NATO commanders and ultimately the US president.

    Also, you would need to be deluded to think that the Western seaboard of Ireland is not already crawling with British, French and Russian submarines. Where do you think the Trident submarines spend their time? While theoretically nuclear subs are supposed to be able to hide in any corner of the world’s oceans, in practical terms, it is much preferable if Britain’s submarines spend their time within a sensible distance of Faslane. There is little tactical benefit to regularly patrolling outside the North Atlantic.

    On control of such a Europaen military force or alliance: I doubt you would find anyone capable of making military decisions within the EU Commission. It would be preferable to have a semi-independent military leadership, with its own commanders able to voice political and strategic opinions, rather than maintain the complete subservience of the Armed forces to civilian politicians that has been customary in the West, but has caused no end of problems. Nether politicians or civil servants are qualified to make sensible decisions on military matters. Just look at the farce of the UK Parliament deliberating on conducting air-strikes in Syria, a tactical military decision that should be completely outside of its remit. The military deserves an independent voice, and the freedom to voice its opinion on proposed military operations.

  • Katyusha

    Not just corporation tax – the variation in tax laws throughout the EU is a complete minefield.
    Of course no nation is going to allow other governments to meddle in their domestic tax affairs. The EU Commission / ECB has this leverage, but only because they abuse their powers, and such blackmail of sovereign governments is never popular.

    What we need to do is curtail the powers of the Commission; and attempt to precipitate genuine, popular pan-European debate on European issues. At the moment, the EU Parliament is toothless, and European elections are viewed as a distraction. No political party sends its best people to Strasbourg.

  • Declan Doyle

    John Dalli was forced to resign in 2012. Moreover, commissioners are sometimes rejected from the get go meaning their government has to provide an alternative. The EU commission cannot simply come up with an idea and plop it in willy nilly. There are a number of checks and balances. Nothing can be passed unless it is approved by the parliament which is full of elected ministers from all over Europe.

  • Declan Doyle

    The desperation to prevent one is far more palpable.

  • robertianwilliams

    That is like arguing over how we would spend the lottery money..when you haven’t actually won. Labour under Corbyn are dead in the water and further constituency reforms are against them.

  • Skibo

    Is this a sign of how well the governments do in appointing their commissioners?
    When was the last high level civil servant sacked?

  • Skibo

    I doubt you can write them off so easily especially if the Conservative party turns on itself, post a Bremain result.
    Remember there are over 50 SNP seats they can rely on in the event of a hung parliament.

  • Declan Doyle

    But labour are growing in the polls and the conservative lead has collapsed. Corbyn’s approval rating are also rising so it is hard to see from what you are basing your opinion

  • kensei

    No

  • ted hagan

    Oh yes, and a year ago I could never have forecast Trump having a chance in hell of becoming US president. Now I wish I had a bet on him.

  • robertianwilliams

    Labour wiped out in Scotland,,,and Scottish seats are essential in a general election..

  • robertianwilliams

    Never underestimate the British conservative party..that is the lesson of history.

  • Kevin Breslin

    He’s a unionist who likes to play Devil’s Advocate. I don’t think his unionism or indeed economic unionism is going to alter his personal views on what the rest of Northern Ireland may do if Labour get in.

    From my own point of view I would say some unionists are going to love to have Corbyn as PM even if he wrecks the local economy, others are going to hate or fear him getting in even if the economy and/or block grant grows.

  • Alan N/Ards

    “Hon. Members must remember that in the South they boasted of a Catholic state. They still boast of a Catholic state.
    All I boast of is that we are a Protestant parliament and a Protestant state.”

    Apologies for being pedantic, Declan, but it cracks me up the number of times it’s misquoted.

    Unfortunately, Craig speech and de Valera’s ” Ireland is a catholic nation” speech have not helped peace and reconciliation on this island.

  • Thomas Barber

    Skibo member states agree to elect the commission president, the commission president appoints the comissioners and he then seeks the approval of member states for their appointments.

    Heres the views of two Irish MEP’s on the TTIP.

    When did the people of Scotland Wales and England decide to pool their sovereignty, was the act of the union not imposed on the people ?

  • Barneyt

    I can see both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail changing their tune only too easily on nuclear power. Neither seem to be all that considerate when it comes to the Republics citizens. Nutrality is more deep rooted….but again, I dont think its as set in stone as you might think…again if you consider FGFF – quick wins, hamdsome gains…big brown envelops

  • Joe Jitsu

    If unionists or the British govt genuinely believed that nationalists wouldn’t want a United Ireland they’d want a border poll in the morning. The fact they refuse to call one says it all, even though I think the unionists would win – but certainly not by a large margin as some like to think on Slugger.

  • Joe Jitsu

    Don’t apologize for been pedantic as you weren’t. But let me indulge, it’s a load of unionist conspiracy theory to suggest that Dev was the southern version of unionist bigot Craig – “I suppose I am about as high up in the Orange Institution as anybody else. I am very proud indeed to be Grand Master of the loyal County of Down. I have filled that office many years, and I prize that far more than I do being Prime Minister. I have always said I am an Orangeman first and a politician and Member of this Parliament afterwards….. Therefore, it is undoubtedly our duty and our privilege, and always will be, to see that those appointed by us possess the most unimpeachable loyalty to the King and Constitution. That is my whole object in carrying on a Protestant Government for a Protestant people. I repeat it in this House.”

    Sir James Craig, Unionist Party, then Prime Minister of Northern Ireland, 24 April 1934

  • Joe Jitsu

    Yep, like they kicked out Churchill after WW2 and fiasco’s like Suez, the Cod War etc

  • Barneyt

    Whatever predictions you might make, whether realistic or fanciful its a more than interesting period in the history of these islands. There are ramifications for Scotland for sure. Whatever the result, I feel the Tory party is damaged so, if this becomes more imbittered and the right in the Labour party move further away fron Corbyn, could we see a new SDP type party, but this time borne out of the Tory party? Unless the result if resounding for Bremain, the UK should have a new primeminister. Yet another impact of the EU vote.

    Then we take Ireland. The pro-EU unionists may do the unthinkable and reach southwards. That could change things…and in my view its the way Unionism should go to secure their terms in a United Ireland..why many believe is inevitable. Better to hasten it and secure a better deal. How they bring the DUP with them I dont know.

    There’s the potential impact on the NIROI border. Again I go along with many of the assessments on here that it is just too costly and impractical to manage the border as you would a sea port. Any moves to curtail movement will play into the hands of those still favouring an armed conflict, as it would create a separation between north and south that we have not seen since the early 70s and perhaps have never seen and give them further “cause”. That is to be avoided.

    Then again, Bremain could stroll in with 60% of the vote and it could be the same old same old. But as I say, how is this not interesting. It will bring the NI EU credentials to the fore for sure. I’ll be interested to see that. Its more likely to be reflective of the overall UK vote in favour. It will represent a slight slap in the teeth for the DUP and set them against Camerons government. Interesting

  • Joe Jitsu

    “The pro-EU unionists may do the unthinkable and reach southwards.” Not a hope, I have a better chance of getting a date with Miss World.

  • Kevin Breslin

    What about the anti-EU unionists seeing it easier to persuade 3-4 million fellow denizens of the island of Ireland to leave the EU than 30-34 million denizens of Great Britain?

  • Declan Doyle

    Dev was almost correct, with 92% catholic population as opposed to the wee six where the breakdown was hugely different.

  • eamoncorbett

    One thing’s for sure if it’s close the issue will remain alive and may very well result in two Conservative partIes one lead by Gove the other by Osborne or Hammond . In my humble opinion if Corbyn is seen as divisive in Labour and Europe having the same effect on the Tories then a new party or alignment could be in the offing come the next election.

  • ted hagan

    Shure be gad he looks like a unionist!

  • ted hagan

    Yes, and it wasn’t just the Catholics in the North who were oppressed.

  • mickfealty

    Ball, not man guys.

  • There is a five year Parliament. So no early election. Even if there is a challenge to Cameron and he loses, and that challenge may well happen. Mostly in such situations the Conservative preference is not for the opposites and therefore May is in the middle and wins. Not that complicated. Though the feeling on Cameron regarding the ref might just shake out the norm to who knows what outcome.

  • Lee

    pretty much, or I’ve always thought of it as what one considers to be big changes are really just normal changes that occur within the normal cycle of one’s life. Often microchanges

  • Declan Doyle

    For sure. The shame of this jurisdiction lies in how some of our Protestant brothers and sisters were treated. But it fades into insignificance compared to the institutionalised sectarian economic, and social terror the Unionist regime waged against Catholics. Even today while the south admits it’s failings Unionism by and large refuses to accept its past behaviour. In fact the level of denial is pretty shocking.

  • ted hagan

    I wasn’t referring to ‘Protestant brothers and sisters’, I was referring to those Irish citizens oppressed by the Catholic Church.

  • Skibo

    Thomas the President cannot just select anyone. The commissioners are proposed by the member state. The President can only select from this pool.

  • Skibo

    I know what you are saying Rob and remember John Major scraping in but the division that Brexit has caused is very deep and very very public.

  • Barneyt

    true…another angle…hence the reason why this is a very interesting period…and perhaps a more interesting one than mine….but I think Joe Jitsu would be even more assured of his date with Miss World……is that still going? 🙂

    What ever happens….in a generation those that vote out will want in and vice-versa. An out would be great for the craic though.

  • Kev Hughes

    It’s like Attack of the Clones, only some guy from Slovakia will get in charge of French nukes and try and take over the UK and make you eat cheese and have gay children and make a refugee live in your home and you pay them, and, and… it’s utter nonsense.

  • Kevin Breslin

    No, when the hysteria dies down the most likely outcome is Cameron dual wins in the Brexit referendum and over the leadership with a party that has a strong survival instinct, unlike Labour. But if you really want a bit of crack (sic), speculate on Theresa May as the next Conservative leader – in 2019.

    So we’re completely ruling out the Conservatives splitting in half entirely and having the Eurosceptic faction merge with UKIP to moderate it and the Europhile faction merge with the Lib Dems to reform the ConDem coalition spirit?

  • Sir Rantsalot

    If you are someone who believes that our future depends on what we agree with the EU for trade, you don’t have a clue who makes the rules ! 🙂
    Honestly, the big corporations make the rules to further their business and profits. It doesnt matter at all about international rules. MPs MEPs, Priminister’s, they are all just ‘plebs’. The governments are told what to agree to enable, big companies to trade.
    Your MEP is not influencial in anything. Unless we leave the EU, we will have no say in what happens in our country.

    Unless you are a moron, look at this vid.

    This is from a German guy. It was posted on FB in 2012, so well before the Brexit stuff.

    https://youtu.be/xMuUEd6w54E

  • Sir Rantsalot

    The commissioners are appointed by national governments and will be open to censure by the European Parliament.”

    You’re very naïve if you believe that. The commission and secret committees (held in secret) run the EU. The MEPs only vote on what the committee draws up for them. They are at the bottom of the pile. I bet you believe what is presented to you on BBC news and mainstream media is the accurate unbiased truth 🙂

    Watch these documentaries to see the facts. Note that leavers present specific facts, remainers present only vagueness and scare sound bites.

    https://youtu.be/eYqzcqDtL3k

    Here you can see the ERT group of European CEOs drawing up plans, giving them to the Commission and then lobbyists getting the MEPs to pass it into law.

    https://youtu.be/xMuUEd6w54E

  • Skibo

    We all know that Big Business runs governments. Why do you think it will be any different in an independent UK?
    I am an ardent Bremain voter but I believe within ten years, there will be very little difference if we had stayed or left.
    My issue is with the two years of volatility till the UK finds its feet again. Treaties will have to be negotiated. The pound may be subject to speculation by investors resulting in devaluation.
    Our interest rates will rise and our mortgage rates will definitely rise. I still have a mortgage as does a number of my family.
    This isolationism from middle England is very concerning.
    The Scots are for remain, the Welsh are fro remain, London is for remain and I believe NI will be 60% for remain.
    Middle England, with their fear of being overrun with Eastern Europeans mat just til the balance.
    Are these the same diaspora that complained about the immigrants from the Commonwealth?
    If we have closer ties with the Commonwealth countries, will the borders be open to them again?

  • John Collins

    Trump just might become the President of the USA and Hitler did get leadership in Germany. Both were regarded as a far bigger joke than Jeremy Corbyn ever was, early in their campaigns. I do agree with that JC will never be GB PM, but can you ever be sure.

  • Pasty

    The situation would change quicker if Corbyn gave the English the vote on the issue as they would likely vote the North out and save themselves the £10Billion a year, that’s the same amount that Boris and Farage say they would save if they left Europe.