Experienced Sinn Fein ex Minister fumbles the ball on Corporation Tax…

Just leaving this here, start from about ten minutes in… A remarkable carbon copy of Wednesday’s SDLP meltdown, here’s Conor Murphy failing to explain the figure he gives on the cost of implementing Corporation Tax, whether (wait for it) is it for one year or four?

His carefully crafted answer: no one knows? [Would that be because – unlike the SDLP’s manifesto – absolutely none of Mr Murphy’s SF manifesto is costed in any accountable way? – Ed] Cue journalistic outrage. [Not! – Ed].

  • It is amazing, after the SDLPs own goal on Nolan….and the all out attack by Sinn Fein accounts on Twitter…to make such a balls up of it themselves is hard to believe. SDLP off the hook and the game is back on.

  • Msiegnaro

    My goodness that was the worst car crash interview I’ve witnessed – I’m shocked a leading member of Sinn Fein fumbled so terribly. This individual is touted as a future leader and in the immediate term to top the poll in his constituency.

  • Teddybear

    Im surprised that anyone’s surprised.

    Our politicians are flag and protest people. They’re not of the same professional ilk as those in GB.

  • mickfealty

    A case of don’t hit that tree, don’t hit that tree, don’t… ah no, hit that tree. But it’s the sheer lack of any grounded costings that shoots him in the foot.

    If everything is moveable, well how do you keep your story straight. But its the lack of fury amongst the journos I find most revealing.

  • Msiegnaro

    Mick it wasn’t just on corporation tax, he was all over the place on everything. An uncosted living wage of £8.20 per hour regardless of ones skills and wasn’t able to differentiate between FT and PT employees. He also wasn’t aware that such a figure could cost jobs in the public sector as it would in the private sector if rolled out there.

  • scepticacademic

    Any SF representative talking about the Corp Tax cut is surely, by definition, a laughing stock. How can they possibly reconcile this policy with their stated goal of a “democratic socialist republic”?

  • Msiegnaro

    Exactly and Murphy is in no danger of losing his seat or even of not topping the poll as a result of this.

  • Declan Doyle

    Rather than helping the public gain information about party policy it seems the focus for Nolan and many other interviewers is more about heckling the interviewee into a state of turmoil. Not a bit helpful or informative. Today’s Radio and TV anchormen seem to be more interested in kicking the interviewee around the studio for their own entertainment rather than peel some serious information off for the voting public.

    Murphy survived pretty well considering all answers to all questions are coloured to have a downside whether they actually do or not. It is clear that Murphy could not confirm figures in a similar fashion to Diver the other day the big difference in Murphys favour lies in the fact that the figures are in fact fluctuating and the negotiations are still ongoing. However, it would be helpful to all of us if this site would oblige us by obtaining confirmation on the issue from SF in the same way it did with the SDLP?

    Murphy was honest about the realities of shared government with dwindling financial resources and he performed well against Nolan who did his best to corner him on issue such as Tax raising powers, Health spending, Education, Slab Murphy and Irsh Unity.

  • Msiegnaro

    He couldn’t state if the figures were over a one year or four year term, Nolan was unprepared to move on until he did. I’m sure if a Unionist did this you would be on here booing and hissing whilst bowing in admiration to Nolan.

  • Declan Doyle

    Firstly, show me a post where I have booed or hissed at any Unionist? Secondly, try to respect people’s opinions without making unfounded allegations. Finally, try not to judge others on the basis of what you perceive to be your own standards.

  • Msiegnaro

    So Sinn Fein get torn apart for Financial bumbling and uncosted proposals, yet all you can do is attack me and the interviewer. Brilliant!!

  • Declan Doyle

    Actually, you attacked me, I never approached you at all.

  • Croiteir

    To me it shows the idiocy of trying to cost your manifesto. It cannot be done without adding in the caveat that it depends on the British governments largesse. Stormont is simply a pie slicer and will remain so until/unless they get tax raiding powers.

    Why not give pledges on what you want to achieve and outline how you will achieve it.

  • Eugene McConville

    Shocking. But corp tax shenanigans will be the least of your worries come Brexit https://rusi.org/rusi-news/northern-ireland-delicate-peace-process-risk-should-uk-leave-european-union

  • hugh mccloy

    Clowns running the country, about time UK labour and FF started contesting elections in the North. It was them who brought the clowns to the table and gave them the opportunity to tun the country, its obvious the clowns cant

  • hugh mccloy

    Me £ein covering their own pockets

  • Declan Doyle

    Quite Possibly

  • hugh mccloy

    On gay marriage, is it a vote winner, 62% voted for same-sex marriage when actually, with a 60.5% turnout, it was that:

    * 37.51% voted for same-sex marriage

    * 24.49% voted against same-sex marriage

    * 38% abstained (by not voting)

  • Graham Parsons

    Quite. However anyone proposing a corporation tax cut here is an economic idiot. Even bigger idiots are those proposing a corp tax cut and a Brexit.

  • Graham Parsons

    How would it cost jobs? Surely it would stimulate greater economic activity.

  • Msiegnaro

    Only if the said companies increase their prices and receive the additional revenue.

  • Lack of fury may be down to simple indifference – nothing new here. Crashes likely when an hour is given and all you have to talk about is a notional rather than policy document – policy in the sense of understanding impact/cost of notion. When you don’t know because you don’t know it is hard to sustain a conversation where you are trying to project confidence in what is no more than a notion. You can’t wriggle out of written statements in a way you may, if talented. wriggle across a news cycle. As Livingstone shows, ‘clever’ reasoning eventually catches up with you.

  • @davidcmoore1

    Despite Martin McGuinness saying the manifesto is costed at the launch, it didn’t seem to get quite as much scrutiny as the SDLP’s, corp tax aside.

  • Graham Parsons

    No. People have more money to spend. Business gets higher revenues. They employ more people. Virtuous circle. Simple really.

  • Declan Doyle

    Polls show a majority of the public in favour of equal marraige. Those who abstain are either otherwise indisposed and cannot vote, or do not have a strong opinion one way or another.

  • Declan Doyle

    Did you contact SF to ascertain if they would be in a position to clarify?

  • colmh

    But there isn’t going to be a brexit. I can’t wait till it’s over and we don’t have to hear about it anymore.

  • notimetoshine

    Let’s be honest here, costed or not it doesn’t matter. SF (or the DUP for that matter) could release a manifesto promising to paint all the leaves on trees in NI white and make wearing clown shoes compulsory andthey would still be in the same electoral position.

    I’ve always maintained that party manifestos from the ‘us and them’ parties are just window dressing, as long as they maintain their ideological purity on ‘cultural’ and constitutional matters nothing else counts.

  • Reader

    There’s no need – Conor Murphy has given the answer: “No one knows”. There’s no one in SF would dare to contradict him now (unless Gerry Kelly is available).

  • Gaz

    Ah good to see someone else thinking like me-its time for outside parties in Britain and The Republic to get their hands dirty and rescue us from our political prison cell-And when I say get involved I mean fighting for seats here like they would anywhere else in these islands-Failing that The Secretary of States need to reintroduce Direct Rule-These guys are all to amateurish for grown up decision making

  • Reader

    That’s a tiny boost to companies with a lot of local trade – shopkeepers, for instance – paid for by unrecoverable costs for any company that exports any product or service.
    And when, e.g. a shopkeeper gets a bit more money across the counter, most of it goes to the wholesaler, and the supplier, and the shipping company, and the manufacturer (probably overseas). The tiny slice of extra that the shopkeeper actually receives probably goes to his staff. If he keeps any at all, he might spend it in another shop, or buy stuff online.
    The wheel will grind to halt before one turn of your simple Virtuous Circle. If a living wage can be defended, it will be on the grounds that it will make life better for a number of low paid workers. If they keep their job.

  • chrisjones2

    And this is the man touted as the next SF DFM!!!!

    Bring it on Gerry

  • chrisjones2

    I think that meant it cost 85p to print each copy

  • chrisjones2

    …but a blunt pie slicer cutting a very flaky pie

  • chrisjones2

    …we all know the answer MIck, as do the journalists ……its all utter bilge that they have no intention of delivering and every intention of blaming the DUP for stopping it.

    Perhaps Arlene should promise that the OO will walk down Garvaghy Road by 2017, a new syllabus for all schools to include King Billy and his impact on modern NI, gerrymandering of all electoral boundaries to ensure a perpetual unionist majority, a 100% rate discount on all Protestant owned land and property (especially in Fermanagh) and a plan to revive the construction sector by building a 30 feet high ‘peace memorial wall ‘ all along the border

  • mickfealty

    Nothing to clarify Declan, it’s not a fixed or predictable cost. And the answer to whether SF will actually sign up merely depends on who they are talking to.

    Whoever Jim McVeigh was talking to wanted to hear no. Speaking to the rest of us as dFM Martin says, yes.

  • Skibo

    Hugh in a vote it is pro verses anti. Those who decide to abstain are accepting the majority of those who do. That is democracy.

  • Skibo

    I didn’t see that much wrong with the interview. Who can actually confirm what the reduction in corporation tax will cost? It will possibly start at £150m ( depending on negotiations with the Treasury) the first year and then progressively lower as the benefits of the reduction are taken on board. If the tallies are correct and the amount of jobs the reduction takes in, possibly the benefits may be greater than the reduction but then I am no economist.
    To me economists are mathematicians with variables they guess.

  • Skibo

    News flash news flash Sinn Fein don’t have a policy on unisex public toilets. Stephen really did it this time!

  • Skibo

    I do not remember anyone in SF saying they will not sign up for it full stop. The caveat has always been ” as long as it is affordable”. Is that not the correct negotiating position to be taking up while discussions are taking place with the Treasury.

  • Skibo

    FF will have enough on their plate with ROI. Labour have stood firm and are talking about reprimanding those who stand in the elections. I look forward to the time they find the guts to stand here and by labour, I mean the Irish labour party this time. That will make four all Ireland parties. All we need to do is get the Unionists to stand for the Dail!

  • Graham Parsons

    Nonsence from start to finish. In your ham fisted analysis, without realising it, you’ve shown that the whole supply chain will benefit from an increase in spending power, not just the shopkeeper.

    As for exporters, most have domestic markets as well. In the unlikely scenario where they don’t they now have an incentive to increase productivity which will be good for the economy.

  • hugh mccloy

    60% turn out in a massively promoted referendum shows its an issue but is it a vote winner in an election, SF and the Green party are hoping but the proof is there

  • Skibo

    Actually he said they would be around that figure (£150m) and would steadily reduce year on year. Did you miss that bit?

  • Msiegnaro

    No he didn’t state that as he wasn’t sure of the term. Stop making up things that didn’t happen.

  • Skibo

    I believe it will be a massive issue with young people who have an international outlook on same sex marriages.

  • Skibo

    Listen again 10.34 if you want to be exact. Like the Conor said the figures keep changing from the treasury and they are the only people who can confirm it. Even at that they can get their sums wrong too.

  • Reader

    And most of the supply chain is outside the 6 counties. Local employers will pay staff more so they can buy landfill androids from South Korea and more oranges from Israel.
    And what makes you think that local companies don’t already have incentives to increase productivity? Do you imagine that business is really good and they are taking things a bit too easy?

  • Msiegnaro

    At 11:02 he said he didn’t know if it was per year or over four years.

  • Skibo

    Like I said previously these figures are being bandied about. He stated previously it starts around that figure and reduce year on year. he said he did not have the figures with him and could get them for him but simple fact is any figure quoted will not be accurate and will probably only be set at an arbitrary figure that will be confirmed at the end of the year just as any self employed person will not be able to confirm his earnings till the year is complete.

  • barnshee

    Where does the “More money”come from?
    The Bank The till ? the “Government”
    Who will put the money into the bank the till the government?

  • Msiegnaro

    But it doesn’t inspire confidence, I presume you will vote SF regardless.

  • Lionel Hutz

    The difference here is between Conor”s experienced response in not committing to one or four years and Gerard’s naivety in presuming. So Conor’s is nowhere near as embarrassing. Even if the underlying slip is the same. I don’t really care if in the context of a radio show like that, people forget a point like that.

  • Msiegnaro

    He said first it was year on year and then less than a minute later he said he wasn’t sure. I would hardly say this was his finest hour, needless to say his core voters and the SF ilk will vote regardless.

  • Skibo

    I think the worst car crash interview I ever witnessed was David Trimble when he lost it completely. Thought his eyes were going to pop out of his head!

  • Skibo

    I find no reason to question his ability to discuss a negotiation that is still taking place. As a Republican who believes in a negotiated united Ireland, I find at present SF fits that bill best.

  • Msiegnaro

    Laughable, they are unfit politically both past and present.

  • Msiegnaro

    Any links? Trimble was an awkward character and very intense at times.

  • Skibo

    I think it was a bit more polished. He did answer the question correctly and then Stephen’s continuous questioning made him waffle a bit. Had he been more confident with his first answer Nolan would have dropped the cost and moved into what SF would be prepared to cut to afford the saving. That would have been a harder question to dodge so it probably worked out for the better.

  • Skibo

    Msiegnaro I have looked but cannot find it. I found one that was carried out for Hearts and Minds but he was sitting behind a desk for it. I vividly remember him sitting on a chair facing the interviewer, no table. He was bouncing, it was his finest moment.
    Think he went shortly after.

  • Skibo

    I will say if they came out and said they are putting their plan for the reunification of Ireland on the back boiler, they would lose my vote but who would be left for me to vote for then!

  • Msiegnaro

    3:25?

  • Msiegnaro

    As much as it infuriates me that because of you and people like you these imbeciles will “represent” for god knows how long, I do have a begrudging admiration for your devotion to unification. I wish some Unionists were equally devoted to their cause.

  • Graham Parsons

    Low wages reduce incentives to increase productivity. But I’m sure you know that.

  • Skibo

    I think your reply shows more about your attitude to Republicanism in the fact that you will not listen with an open mind.
    You have so much to offer a reunited Ireland. Britain does’t want you. The only advantage the Torys see in having NI is there are ten seats they can buy rather cheaply in a tight Westminster majority.
    Visit the south and you will not find a cold house for Unionism or Protestantism. You will find a progressive and relatively accepting country. A country moving out of a major recession, booming in Dublin and slowly that boom will move out over the rest of the country.
    We need to be part of that progressivism and move on together.

  • Skibo

    They are as fit to govern as any party in the north and probably more progressive than most.

  • Msiegnaro

    So says someone who can’t even bring themselves to say “Northern Ireland”.

  • Skibo

    Does your imbeciles comment come from their ability to govern or their Republican credentials?
    If they were less out and out socialist and more new labour would they be more acceptable even with their Irish dimension?
    What I am asking is do you see their Republicanism as the issue or their socialism?

  • Skibo

    Northern Ireland Northern Ireland Northern Ireland. Do not get lost in the title.
    I can also say Londonderry, surprise, surprise. I have respect for those I talk to and tend to try not to insult them with using a title to antagonise them.
    I find it so annoying when hearing the news about people from Derry who obviously know the place as Derry but the news reader insist on using Londonderry.
    Tell me do you consider yourself socialist or conservative?

  • Msiegnaro

    Republicanism is fine, it’s their sectarianism, their failure to be accountable for their past misdemeanors and their abuse in power which is unacceptable. Of course their poor grasp on fiances, abuse of the Irish language and general corruption doesn’t help either.

  • Skibo

    Well done Msiegnaro that was the snippet. I remember seeing the full interview. I thought Noel Thompson was going to get clouted.Thought he was sitting in a armchair but the aul mind awanders. That is my best stab at Ulster Scots.

  • Msiegnaro

    When he said “Don’t interrupt me,,” and stopped, sat back in the chair as he knew he’d lossed it completely.

    Interesting to see Martin McGuinness rattled, he’s definitely got better at this. David Ford was definitely no match for Noel in that little segment and was completely shown up.

  • Msiegnaro

    The norm now seems to be Derry/Londonderry on the news which I quite like. I change it depending on my group but like you I say both too.

  • Msiegnaro

    Sometimes if one’s mind is too open one’s brain could fall out.

  • Lionel Hutz

    Well why shouldn’t they. I don’t vote for sinn fein but if I did this wouldn’t put me off. People make mistakes in this environment.

    I am a lawyer as some of you might guess and there are times when the judge asks a question in a strange way and sometimes a date or a case name goes missing for a moment. If the judge was Nolan and decided to press looking to cause embarrassment rather than insight, no doubt I could have been embrassed once or twice. That hasnt happened thankfully. But if it did, I wouldn’t walk away feeling any less of a lawyer, nor would any other lawyer watching say that. We would universally conclude that the judge is a dick.

    And this is the difference between not remembering all the details in a moment on the hand which is forgivable and flawed logic on the other. The latter is truly embrassing

  • Skibo

    Msiegnaro and there was me starting to warm to you!
    1) What sectarianism? They have continuously demanded equality but that works both ways. Where Unionism is the minority, republicanism must accept their mandate.
    2)They have constantly asked those with information to come forward. Who in their right mind would indict themselves.
    3) Any examples of abuse of their power would help. I could throw out some abuses of power during the one party state prior to the troubles but it was not Republicans that carried them out.
    4) They have worked within the Stormont Executive for the last nine years with the DUP, UUP SDLP and Alliance and believe it or not the place is not bust yet. We are still keeping the place going on an ever reducing budget, a credit of all.
    5) A language can not be abused by use. It can however be abused by refusal to allow its use.
    6) General corruption has been rife in NI for years.It is not just a Republican issue. There are still elements of it on both sides and it will take time to root it all out but they have called for anyone with evidence to come forward. i suppose you do not buy contraband cigarettes or drink. Never paid cash for anything and declare everything to the tax man.

  • Skibo

    Me too, see we now have a common ground on which to build a working relationship.
    I still hear the Londonderry particularly on Radio Ulster from a certain female reporter.

  • Skibo

    Haha your scepticism will be the ruin of you but good reply. Are you sure you are not Jedi?

  • Msiegnaro

    I was actually warming to you too.

    1. Wasn’t Conor Murphy found guilty of sectarianism in his ministerial role?

    2. It would be a start if some truth was present about the Enniskillen bomb and other horrors, it’s clear at this stage there will be no convictions.

    3. £700 k paid to a research company run by party members.

    4. Stormont is unsustainable and is always five minutes away from crisis.

    5. Every word of Irish spoken is like another bullet being fired in the struggle for Irish freedom

    6. Phil Flanagans activities at Carphone warehouse prior to becoming and MLA are dubious. Agreed it’s rife everywhere but it has to be dealt with.

  • Msiegnaro

    Haha if you can be convinced by the arguments of the Union then you’ll know.

  • Msiegnaro

    Downtown are definitely all for Derry/Londonderry.

    In Orange circles it’s generally “Derry” I hardly ever hear “Londorderry” being used.

  • Skibo

    1)Yes Conor was found guilty of discrimination against Alan Lennon because he was a protestant. I accept that point. Is that it? Been in government for nine years and one case of discrimination.
    2) I assume the Enniskillen bomb and the the other atrocities you refer to were properly investigated by both the RUC and the PSNI? Is it not down to the police to gather evidence and build a case for the DPP to bring to court?
    3)But this has been investigated and found to be within the rules.
    4) Stormont has been unsustainable from the thirties. It didn’t happen overnight. It has been five minutes away form collapse as Unionist parties vie to show who is holding SF to account.
    5) This I cannot understand. What do you fear from a language? Does learning French make you any less British
    6) Not sure it is wise to cast unproven accusations without proof. Dubiousnes is not a criminal record.
    I find the attitude of most Unionist politicians to the Irish language as insulting and short sighted. Had they introduced an Irish language act or just accepted the use of the Irish language within the chamber as acceptable, the whole issue would have dissapeared. Instead the Dissidents can use it as an example to republicans that Unionists are not prepared to share power and still treat Irish as a second class citizen

  • Skibo

    William is quite a Derry user on Radio Ulster also.

  • Msiegnaro

    I didn’t say I was adverse to learning Irish, on the contrary – I just don’t know how to go about it or where?

  • Msiegnaro

    Crawley? To my shame I don’t listen to radio Ulster.

  • Skibo

    If you are anywhere near the Newtownards Road, Linda Irvine could give you a hand. Take ownership of it and don’t let it divide us. Most Irish primary schools run evening classes also.
    The phrase Gregory was so anoyed about was Gabh raibh maith agat (go ro mi agat) thank you in Irish.
    Ca bhfuil to ( ca will to) how are you.
    Ta me go maith (taw ma go mi) I am fine
    From many many years ago for O’levels!

  • Skibo

    Hi William is quite good. I like the banter between him and Sean Coyle around half eleven. There is a good rapor between the two but Nolan doesn’t give young Coyle the time of day.

  • Msiegnaro

    I agree that it is something I should learn. Is Linda contactable directly if I do a google search?

  • Skibo

    Good question. She works out of the Skainos centre. Great looking building on the Newtownards Road. I only met the Lady once. Quite an impressive character. Very very proud of her Britishness yet loves the Irish language.

  • Skibo

    You didn’t answer my question if you were socialist or tory.

  • Jag

    A bit of a disappointment that Nolan interview.

    The Shinners have behaved like turtles with their manifesto and defence of it. They’ve retreated into their shell, won’t provide information which can be challenged, so we don’t get the embarrassment of the SDLP.

    I thought the worst part of that interview was on the income tax rate, with the Shinner position it wanted the power to set rates, but couldn’t be specific about what would happen to rates if they were devolved. They’d be “progressive” was the best Conor Murphy could say. Well, d-ah!

    That interview was far better than Chris “Boyo” Hazzard’s car crash last year, and while, it won’t have won over any new voters, it won’t have driven away the existing base either.

    And Nolan did have the opportunity to delve into specifics, there were three specific revenue raising measures, all around property tax which I’d bet are so marginal as to be meaningless, but Stephen fumbled the interview. A rare disappointment.

  • Jeffrey Peel

    Part of the problem is that Sinn Fein would probably not be that inclined to ask the OBR. The headline number until recently was £300m annual cost to the block grant but since the announcement of falling UK-wide corporation tax to 2020 the actual cost will step down. So Murphy was right that the cost to NI of reducing to 12.5% would lessen as this rate gets closer to the national rate. Maybe the £150m cost was a stated average annual rate of cost (to the block grant) over a four year period. But the fact that he didn’t know that it was an annual cost is bizarre.

  • Reader

    Are you in favour of also increasing energy costs, business rates and rents to make them even more productive? In fact, why not do these companies a real favour and run a protection racket on them? Now there’s an incentive to increase productivity…

  • hugh mccloy

    It will be a big issue, SF and Green Party are hoping its a big issue for a big population.When it comes to social issues like this they will get lip service for a while but if there are no votes it will be dropped like a stone. If you take the civil issue of a child having social rights with its father no party really backs giving children that right in law incase it upsets a different lobby that is voting

  • chrisjones2

    The Gerry Adams school of economics

  • Jag

    Interesting to see SF challenging the SDLP to a debate on manifestos. Brazen, some might say, given the Shinners’ manifesto is so teensy.

    Equally interesting that SF is taking the attack to the SDLP in this election, not the DUP.

  • colmh

    Msiegnaro there is a great free app called Duolingo that you can put on your phone. It not only does irish but spanish, french, german etc.

    I’m using it to learn some irish but also to brush up on my french for the euros!