Injured Prison Officer Dies After Heart Attack

Adrian Ismay, who had previously been released from hospital after sustaining serious injuries from a dissident Republican bomb attack, suffered a fatal heart attack earlier today.

The First Minister lead condemnation, tweeting from the USA on an investment mission, “I’m devastated. Can’t believe the news. I was texting Adrian before we left for the US. He was doing well. My thoughts are with his family.”

The PSNI have yet to confirm they are treating the death as murder.

Coincidentally today in the Irish Republic the government has organised the first of a supposedly annual ‘Proclamation Day’, where the call to arms of the Irish republican rebels is being read out to every school in the country.

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  • Hugh Davison

    You still here, ?

  • Hugh Davison

    You still here?

  • Hugh Davison

    What, are you still here?

  • Hugh Davison

    Oh, are you still here.

  • Hugh Davison

    I admire your patience, AI. You seem to be dealing with three schoolyard bullies, not including Barnshee who is just uninformed, for whom facts are irrelevant.
    It’s not going to get you anywhere in the long run. But good marks for trying.

  • Anglo-Irish

    Thanks Hugh, I know I really shouldn’t encourage them, but I find it amusing to see how many knots they can tie themselves into, and how many straightforward facts they can conveniently ignore.

    Being retired I obviously have too much time on my hands! : )

  • Hugh Davison

    I know the problem. You need to find other interests, or the fingers will be forever reaching towards the keyboard, despite it not being so good for the blood pressure.

  • Anglo-Irish

    You may well be right but it amuses me, and you will notice that none of them have been back for a while now.

    Maybe a light finally came on in what passes for their thinking apparatus, although probably not, given the previous evidence. : )

  • Ciara Ní Mhurchú

    Adrian Ismay was a kind, caring, funny man with no affiliation to any political organisation. I was lucky to call him a friend who I hung out with at the CCAR in Boyle three weeks before he was attacked by that scumbag.
    A big rugby fan who was really looking forward to coming to Dublin for the last 6 Nations match.
    RIP big man.
    Ciara NI Mhurchu, Dublin.

  • Hugh Davison

    Loyalists?

  • Bill Slim

    I was talking to a distant relative of Sir Edward Carson just the other day and I put this very point to him. His reply was succinct and worth quoting in full, “Sir Edward Carson never murdered anybody so the person who asked that question is an idiot.”

  • Bill Slim

    To say that the Irish people were not getting Home Rule after WW1 is like believing in the Provos.

  • Bill Slim

    Actually by 1916 prosperity in Ireland was rampant. Post independence the Irish economy went straight back down the tubes and it only picked up again after they joined the EU. There was a lot of crowing for a while about Celtic Tigers etc, but unfortunately they gambled the lot away and lost it when the bust came. Things are picking up again, but with a lot of help from the British so anyone who thinks that being outside the UK was a big help to the Irish economy is slightly insane.

  • Bill Slim

    £7 billion in 2010. It was in all the papers apart from An Phoblacht.

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/nov/22/ireland-bailout-uk-lends-seven-billion

  • Bill Slim

    It is increasingly clear that nothing will ever move you from your green tinted view of auld Oireland. Somebody must have pumped your head full of a lot of Fairey stories when you were a youngster in England.

    Does it occur to you for even one second that you were raised as an Englishman precisely because whoever produced you could not afford to live in the mythical paradise that was post was Ireland? I doubt it.

  • Bill Slim

    The UK gives more than it gets out. Ireland took more in than it gave. It’s not rocket science.

  • Bill Slim

    Hold on. You were tring to claim earlier that Ireland should have been independent because of the results of the 1918 elections. That was not a referendum. In 1916 the majority of Irish MPs were home rulers. The rebels ignored their mandate and started killing people. Exactly the same as the dissidents today.

  • Bill Slim

    You should see how they were treated in the south.

  • Bill Slim

    A “nonentity” who gained partition for Ireland. Not much for English Heritage to concern themselves with I suppose, but I suspect that it interests you.

  • Bill Slim

    You?

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Neither did Stalin, Bill…neither did Paisley….it’s a mark of such people that others can always be found to do the actual deeds. It’s sweet that descendants stand up for their ancestors, but what weight does such “filial piety” carry against the hard truth, really?

    I wonder if you could actually show me a case of any of the leaders of the 1916 Easter Rising killing anyone personally? That’s not the way such things work. No, Carson unquestionably brought the gun back into Irish politics, assured in his mind that his connections with the “great and good” of the Conservative party would ensure that it would not actually come to an exchange of fire with the British Army. But life is always more complex than our plans and through “chain of command” it was Carson’s fronting of a declared recourse to violence that put the actual guns into the hands of the proto-Loyalist gunmen of the early 1920s and “authorised” the recourse to arms of his opponents in the Irish Volunteers. So, manslaughter perhaps, if not actual murder, but his victims are just as dead.

    Come on, a bit of honest objectivity in actually accepting the Unionist responsibility for the recourse to violence might just begin to suggest an honest shift away from these knee jerk habits of automatically blaming of the other camp and exonerating ones own that mark both of the political camps of our community. It’s not as if the inceptive culpability of Carson and his companions is not glaringly obvious to anyone at all familiar with the time line of our dreary history.

  • Bill Slim

    I was speaking to a distant relative of Josef Stalin just this morning and he assured me that Josef had in fact murdered quite a few people. Millions in fact. He was also slightly puzzled by the fact that your whataboutery only ever seems to come into play when you are discussing the Irish republican penchant for cold blooded murder.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Yes, Bill, the very point I was making myself! Carson and Joe Dzhughashvili both set things in motion “from on high” that led to the deaths of the innocent without even a spot of blood on their cuffs!

    And hey, Bill, in case you have not noticed from behind those blinkers I’m actually critiquing both camps here, attacking the recourse to violence itself, not suggesting that Republicans were in any way “justified” in their own recourse to violence in any way by Carson’s foolish miscalculations. This is a root sourcing of the actual inception of a culture of violence which we are all experiencing across our whole community, and in this strictly speaking, the “What about” really refers to blaming the party that has simply reacted to a provocation.

    You are raising the actual “what about” here seemingly in attempting to exonerate one end of our see-saw of violence while putting all the weight down on the other end. I’d want the log the plank is actually sitting on taken well away from us all, and with it this ugly habit of “historical justification” whataboutery is support of the violence of ones own camp which you appear to be addicted to in your responses. Come on, you appear to be getting out in the world and meeting some very interesting people, I’m surprised you can’t seem to get the broader picture. Just to finish, the question for ten points is: “Who first thought the use of guns to settle the Home Rule argument in Ireland”, the answer is all very simple, and utterly clear in the historical record. Really, don’t let yourself down.

  • Bill Slim

    I’ve brought the two distant relatives along for lunch and to let them have a read over your dissertations. They are enjoying them very much indeed.

    They do point out one or two minor discrepancies though. For instance Josef Stalin (Irish republicans thought he was a great guy btw) personally ordered the extermination of millions of people whilst Sir Edward ordered the killing of no one. They also think that you have a problem with differentiating between possessing weapons and using them to murder people. They think that your question should be “Who first used guns to murder people during the Home Rule period in Ireland.” The answer to that is all very simple and utterly clear in the historical redord.

    They conclude by saying that they think blaming unionists for republican violence is at best moronic and at worst dishonest. They think that people who do that let themselves down badly. Especially when they try to portray themselves as gentlemen of wit and learning rather than terrorist apologists.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Bill, the “dishonesty” to my way of thinking is this habit of justifying violence and attempting to squirm out of responsibility by shifting blame across to others through habitual whataboutery, a bad habit both camps here appear to have become addicted to. Simple question, “did the UVF intend to use their weapons if their bluff was called?”

    By bringing in the issue of “the first shot” you are shifting the ground of the original argument, something that really needs to be to be noted as yet another bad habit. Oh I know, you clearly can’t even begin to argue that the Irish Volunteers first brought the gun back into Irish politics, so you really have to shift ground or concede. I also realise that you simply may not be able to see that pointing guns at people is “an act of violence” in itself, and that in such circumstances, sooner or later someone will pull the trigger, but really, would the Irish Volunteers ever have been brought into being, or would anyone have thought of acquiring weaponry, if the UVF had not been formed to resist their King and the Imperial Parliament by force?

    Most importantly for this issue of culpable violence, as Tim Bowman says, “Certainly, they were not an efficient, modern, military force as they were poorly equipped, badly trained and, in most cases, inadequately officered”, but as their “alter-egos” at Easter 1916 showed, in the event of the UVF being put to the test, it is inconceivable that some people would not have died at the hands of the organisation Carson and his associates called into being:

    http://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/the-ulster-volunteers-1913-1914-force-or-farce/

  • Anglo-Irish

    You continue to prove your inability to reason with every post you make.

    Firstly, I wasn’t’ raised as an Englishman’ because as I have pointed out and proved to anyone but the most stupid I am not an Englishman.

    As mothers tend to have more to do with rearing children than fathers – or at least they did when I was young – that would be another reason why I wasn’t ‘raised as an Englishman’.

    As my father was English economics didn’t enter into it, my mother came to England as an adventure accompanying a friend with every intention of returning and then she met my father.

    And as I lived in Ireland, and attended a school and a Technical college in Ireland we did in fact live in the ‘mythical paradise’.

    As usual wrong on all counts, keep going though Bill, I like a laugh.

  • Anglo-Irish

    Try to learn a little about a subject before you spout off about it. that’s not rocket science either.

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjThNrR3MrLAhWI6xQKHaTZDEEQFggzMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sceala.com%2FphpBB2%2Firish-forums-25255.html&usg=AFQjCNEYIwQxb1AjIJYNW8iT3QbFdE9MnQ

    Even Jollyraj wasn’t daft enough to come out with that one, no doubt he took the trouble to read the link.

  • Hugh Davison

    Ah, yes. Thanks for the link. 2010, I’d quite forgotten. Still, a loan that was a good deal for the UK, as AI has explained. Shouldn’t you be expressing gratitude rather than bile?

  • Anglo-Irish

    You really are desperate to blame everything on ‘themmuns’ aren’t you?

    What difference does it make that the 1918 vote was an election and not a referendum as in 1998?

    The wishes of the people were clearly shown in both instances.

    Let me quote part of a letter in today’s Times on the subject.

    ” W B Yeats might have been right about England keeping faith, had the Ulster Protestants not been so clearly determined to oppose Home Rule by force.
    In practice, even without the Rising the subsequent war of independence was almost certainly unavoidable. ”

    The letter was written by Sir Christopher Bland.

    Sir Christopher was born in Japan where his father worked for Shell. He and his brother were raised in Northern Ireland and he served his national service in the 5th Royal Inniskilling Dragoon Guards. He was involved in politics as a Conservative and is a Protestant.

    You see, people who are capable of reasoning without having all their attitudes dictated by sectarian bias can tell it as it is without the constant need to twist everything in their favour.

    You should try it sometime.

  • John Collins

    Well they got a share of help to squander the boom anyway from imprudent British lenders, who insanely pumped their money into a property bubble. Your booming Irish economy around 1916 was mainly based in Belfast and about five out of every eight RCs had left what is now the ROI since 1841.
    I myself am descended from a strange combo’ of dirt poor people on one side and reasonably well off farmers on the other, with a branch further back where doctors and engineers were quite prevalent. Those born in the Nineteenth Century, from all those branches of society, for the most part emigrated, as was common for most people then. In the last fifteen years of the nineteenth century almost 60,000 people left this country each year. Farming had a boom around the years of WW1 and this may account for your boom, as well as the Belfast prosperity but the farming boom ,like the Celtic Tiger, quickly disappeared .
    By contrast the last generation of my clan, though some emigrated all returned to Ireland bar one and out of around forty first cousins all but one live and work here.

  • Bill Slim

    Again consulting with my friends the relatives, they point out that it is nonsense to blame the UVF for re-introducig the gun into Irish politics. In fact the IRB had long been planning a rebellion in Ireland and were always going to take advanrage of England’s problems in WW1. They find your constant efforts at trying to blame republican terrorism on unionists tedious though mildly amusing.

  • Bill Slim

    Shouldn’t you be expressing gratitude rather than bile? It was Britain which did the bailing out after all.

  • Bill Slim

    Oh so the hatred was taught at the mother’s knee. Standard stuff.

  • Bill Slim

    Try not to base your arguments on links that no one opens.

    Just saying.

  • Bill Slim

    The majority of people who voted in 1918 voted against Sinn Fein. Nor was it even a referendum. In Scotland the majority vote for the SNP and also for the continuation of the UK. Try reasoning that.

  • Bill Slim

    You have a hierarchy of victims which suits your pro IRA narrative. Disgusting.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Bill, there is a limit to how effective placing the telescope to the eyepatch can really be. You can of course use this to ignore the plain fact that Unionism (through the UVF) unquestionably re-introduced the gun back into what had become entirely constitutional Irish politics, as Unionism had entirely lost the argument in constitutional terms.

    But ignoring inconvenient reality does not actually make it go away, it simply distorts the understanding of the person who refuses to face up to fact and his blindness to solid evidence ensures that the real meat of what is verifiable and honest is removed from his “history” while only safe imagined things remain. There is also, perhaps, a moral issue of facing up to political responsibility, but that may simply be too much to grasp in even a few sittings. This does not in any way entail placing all the actions of Republicans on the shoulders of modern day Unionists, but of recognising that events unfold in history as a chain of cause and effect and marking moments when utterly restrictive choices were made that would lead to a chain of events, and that individuals who resort to force to up the anti have responsibilities for what ensues. It’s now an historical truism that Hitler would not have come into power without the vindictive nature of the Treaty of Versailles smoothing his way with the German people. Similarly, if Unionism had not resorted to force from 1912, other things would clearly not have developed as they did. The IRB were simply a few superanuated drunks around 1900, planning nothing more worrying than a weekends drinking and a nervous forray into Dublin Municipal Politics, nothing like the stuff that revolutions were made of before Carson’s actions encouraged them to arm up in response to the Northern example.

    By the way, “WW1” is improper usage, it’s either “WWI”, using the capital “i” as a Roman numeral, or “World War One” in full, but using the abreviation with an Arabic numeral simply is never done in polite society.

    Oh, and just out of interest, I wonder if you may have a cousin who had an other exchange with me some time back about some very inconvenient facts regarding the Somme? Is he one of those relatives so mis-advising you? I somehow sense in the same “double eyepatch” overkill tribute act to Nelson’s self-imposed blindness something of a family resembelence to the long absent “Cue Bono”.

  • Anglo-Irish

    My mother was the kindest hearted person you could ever meet, there was no hatred in her.

    She adored my father, and as he was a protestant, an ex British soldier and an Englishman in what way could anyone other than an idiot come to that conclusion?

    You prove your biased stupidity with every post, very funny though, do keep it up.

  • Anglo-Irish

    Ahh, the old I didn’t open the link and so therefore I’m not really talking complete bollix defence.

    The link proves that Ireland has contributed far more to the EUs finances than it has received, but you knew that didn’t you?

  • Anglo-Irish

    Where do you manage to come up with that one from?

    What I have posted are the facts as I know them, if you have opposing facts which contradict them then please post them, instead of whining that the facts posted don’t suit your particular pro ‘loyalist’ narrative.

  • Bill Slim

    The inconvenient reality is that the IRB existed long before the UVF, had a long history of terrorist violence and were always going to attack Britain when she was tied down in a world war. “Whatabout the UVF” is irrelevant in that context.

  • Bill Slim

    Strange that she raised you to have such twisted views of your own country, or did you build up the hatred al by yourself?

  • Bill Slim

    Ireland received more than it contributed in the years before Europe lifted them out of poverty. You knew that didn’t you?

  • Anglo-Irish

    . Hatred and twisted views of my own country?

    Let me try to explain it to you using a simple analogy that even you may be able to understand.

    Two Germans are talking, the first one says;

    ” Germany is the greatest country in the world, it has produced the greatest scientists, engineers,writers,philosophers, musicians, soldiers and sportsmen that the world has known. ”

    The second German then says;

    ” A lot of what you say is true, Germany has indeed produced many great people and had a positive contribution to western civilization, however, it also has to be acknowledged that Germany has a dark side to its history, and it’s disingenuous to ignore that and only concentrate on the positive aspect as though the other part doesn’t count. ”

    Do you understand that?

    Virtually the same conversation could take place between two Englishmen and which would you consider to be the most rational of the two?

    The one who wants to ignore part of his countries history because it’s inconvenient, or the one who accepts it warts and all?

    You appear to be one of those people who interprets any criticism as an attack, point being if it’s factual it’s not an attack, it’s a fact.

    And as a great man once said, ” Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but no one is entitled to their own fact “.

    Do you understand now, or are you the one who is twisted and unable to take in truths that do not agree with your preformed views?

  • Anglo-Irish

    Ireland is a net contributor to EU finances and is in fact the second biggest contributor of indirect funds after Germany.

    Only if you leave out the contribution to the EU coffers of fish taken from Irish territorial waters can the claim be made that Ireland has received more than it has contributed.

    The value of an Irish owned asset which the EU has benefited from to the tune of £200 billion means that Ireland has payed it’s way.

    In 2014 the Irish taxpayers contributed 80 euro per head over the sum received from the EU.

    And Ireland lifted itself out of poverty using the hard work and ingenuity of its people, with some help from the EU which was what the European project was supposed to be about.

    Other countries have received assistance from the EU and failed to prosper in the same way.

    Now how about Northern Ireland? When will it work its way out of dependency on the British taxpayer?

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Bill, this kind of utterly generalised comment actually says nothing in any way meaningful and does not add anything to the discussion. I’d advise you to perhaps read some actual detailed history. Yes, back in the 1860/70s, the old IRB was a serious threat, but their very violence turned most people off and encouraged a swing to the constitutional approach of, firstly, the Home Rule League, and later The Irish Parlaimentry Party (IPP). Charlie Parnell met with the leaders of the IRB and persuaded them about the counterproductiveness of violence. By 1900 they IRB were almost entirely moribund, and as I’ve described them above. Despite a few attempts to revitalise the IRB in the north by Bulmer Hobson and others through the “Dungannon Clubs” during the 1910s it was only after the recourse to the threat of violence by Unionism that this attempt at revitalisation found any real support. Pearse himself only joined the IRB in 1913, and was elected unto the IRB committee just one year before the Rising.

    I know you really want things to be different so that you do not have to consider that violence simply cannot be blamed on “themuns” and that it actually took “two to tango”. Recently its been suggested (how seriously I do not know) that a statue to Carson needs to be erected in Dublin to celebrate his contribution to “Irish Freedom”. I can all too easily see the logic.

  • Bill Slim

    Your entire argument is based around blaming unionists for Irish republican violence. It can be summed up as “big boys made them do it”.

  • Bill Slim

    The Republic of Ireland was close to being a third world country up until the 1980s when Europe pulled them out of poverty. Its biggest export was its young people. Apparently nothing will ever bring you to acknowledge that.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Bill, I’m not “blaming” anyone in the way you appear to need to blame Republicans. I’m simply describing, as an historian, a chain of causality, and I’ve offered a link for you to explore teh concept pver on another reply.

    “If this had not occured, this other thing would not have happened.” really, it’s actually quite simple.

  • Anglo-Irish

    Ireland was a poor country? Yes it was, and that was amazing really given that it had been a major part of the great British Empire and Dublin was the second city in that Empire.

    So why so poor? Couldn’t have had anything to do with the attitude of the British to the country could it?

    Incidentally, don’t know if it escaped your attention whilst you were concentrating on your usual hagiography of all things British, but in 1976 Britain had to go cap in hand to the International Monetary Fund for a bailout.

    How did that happen? According to your usual jingoistic rants Britain is incapable of getting anything wrong.

    A small country like Ireland starting from a difficult position it can be understood how they struggled a bit, but the Empire?

    Dear me how do you explain that fall from grace?

  • Bill Slim

    When republicans kill people I blame republicans. You on the other hand divert into a rant about unionists. It’s actually quite pathetic.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Oh, Bill, I blame Republicans too, but I do not seek to whitewash those who inspired what modern Republicans are doing with their own actions in 1912.

    Look man, this understanding of our history is a very serious thing, we are not just supporting sides in a football match, Try and remember that our actual history is like a bag of wool that the cats have pulled into chaos, mixing each ball up into a chaos of intertwined strands. You need to follow the strands back to source and rewind the wool back into some order if you have any wish to escape from the lethal mess that has been created by all sides in our community. Simply cheering on ones own side and ignoring its faults just adds to the growing confusion.

  • Bill Slim

    I think that it is fairly clear what you are doing. Your hatred of unionists and them for everything shines through in your posts. You try to cloak it a bit with your flowery language and obscure, irrelevant quotes accompanied by unverifiable claims, but at heart you are a man who hates Northern Ireland Protestants. Blaming their ancestors from 1912 for the current actions of republican zombies is particularly hilas.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Bill, many of my family were and are still Unionists, for whom I have considerabl affection, even if they sometimes get bogged down in nonsense! My grandfther’s brother’s name is out there as a signatory of that rather melodramatic Covenant and I honour his memory! You do not have to agree with someone to feel warmly towards them, its what being a civilised person is all about, being able to disagree without raeching for firearms! I’m on record on Slugger as frequently commending Unionists such as Danny Kinahan, Jeff Dudgeon (with whom I disagree on some history matters) and others for their fine work. I even try and suggest at times how a half decent case for the Union might actually be put together. And if you think I’m pro-SF, simply google my handle with “Gerry Adams” on Slugger!!!

    No, I’m writing about history, not politics, and all the hatred evident here seems to be invested in your own discomfort with the true historical record, in your effort to turn the spagetti of the very confused history we are all heir to into a boys own “black hat” “white hat” story culled from a lot of self-serving political myths.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    No, Bill, think about how you are behaving here. You are showing gross disrespect by “shroud waving” with the genuine suffering of people who have experienced personal loss. Appropriating this as the property of the Protestant community is making a claim on the poor man and his grieving family, something which I can only consider to be in very poor taste at this time.