Bonfire fleggers still #Winning (this time in Derry)…

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One of the blinding stupidities of burning another nation’s national flag on your bonfire, is the near certainty that it will encourage someone else to burn yours, which in turn…

Alliance has condemned the actions of republicans who placed Union flags on a bonfire in Londonderry on Friday night. The Fire Service was called in to the Bogside where they turned their hoses on shops under threat from the flames.

  • kensei

    The difference here is that Nationalism is set against bonfires and what they represent from the antisocial behaviour to this sort of nonsense.

    For example:
    http://belfastmediagroup.com/bonfire-material-removed-in-dawn-raid/

    There was one on the Oldpark Road removed too. Even dissident or small Republican groups such as Eirigi are set against this – have a gander at the twitter streams of their representatives.

    It is utterly depressing that some morons within Nationalism want to ape the worst aspects of loyalism. But to try and represent bonfires as whatabouttery or a plague on both your houses is fundamentally dishonest.

  • mickfealty

    You seriously suggesting that there is no tribal interplay in this dynamic?

    Not so much dishonesty, as resorting to I can’t see anything analysis, currently flooding the news-flow with #besidethepoint commentary.

    Flegs have taken such a primary significance because there’s no other political game being played. That in itself is a free choice on the part of the senior hurlers players of the game.

  • kensei

    “I can’t see anything”?

    The SDLP can see them because they’ve come out in support of getting rid of bonfires. Sinn Fein can see them because they’ve come out in support of getting rid of the bonfires. Even Eirigi can see them, because they’ve come out in support of getting rid of the bonfires.

    When I saw an illegal bonfire near where I was depressed, when I saw some idiot had stuck a Union Jack on it I wondered what the correct procedure was for getting rid of the whole thing was. I have honestly no idea what you are meant to do, and I wasn’t about to blaze in and pull it off. But it was removed by the council with support from local councillors before I’d much longer to think on it.

    There is obviously the stupidest type of tribal mindset here but bonfires don’t have the same scale in nationalism, they don’t have the same support in nationalism, and nationalist actually get rid of them.

    Are you sure you just can’t see something?

  • Nevin

    The bonfire video and pictures in the Derry Journal.

  • Michael Henry

    Could be wrong but I doubt you will get one Republican on here who is 100 per cent in support of those bonfires with Union flags and Rangers shirts on them- they are a absolute disgrace like the Loyalist ones with The Irish national flag and Celtic shirts on them-

  • carl marks

    This is wonderful; we now have parity of esteem in the idiot’s race.

    No argument that this is a case of monkey see, monkey do!

    The police (hopefully with the support of local politicians) should remove the flags and the DOE (or whoever is responsible for the land) should take the whole thing away, perhaps the pallets could be sold and the money donated to a local charity.

    This behaviour is unacceptable and cannot be excused, whilst I’m glad nationalist politicians have spoken out about it, talks cheap perhaps they could tell us what they are doing to do about this bonfire and what will be done to stop it happening in the future?

  • mickfealty

    David McCann in his interview with Barton from about 14 mins in…

    If we spend as much time debating economics and healthcare as we do on those [trial issues) we might be further on.

    “But we don’t. We luxuriate in mythic, symbolic things in which you are talking to yourself. You are not talking to anyone else.

    “Republicanism, and nationalism where the people who in three years between 1968 and 1971 achieved more than all unionist governments had done in the previous fifty.

    I guess my point is that if you keep politics purring around the tribal baseline, that’s where its gonna stay… And we will get copy cat idiocy like this…

  • kensei

    …except every nationalist representative has condemned the move? Even SF have said they want to work with communities to get away from the bonfires? Or if you go back 20-25 years, the internment bonfires / riots were a hell of a lot worse and SF, fair play to them, helped decisively move away from the whole self destructive shebang? How are you missing this?

    Or do you somehow want to link problems in Stormont to bonfires in some sort of madness that suggests the type of people doing these bonfires give two flying figs about what happens there?

    If so, you are fitting facts into your preferred narrative, and discarding anything that doesn’t fit.

  • kensei

    Err, they requested the bonfires were removed and supported the police and council in doing so…?

    http://www.u.tv/news/bonfire-removed-in-west-belfast/d1fd0931-65f2-49f1-93df-8d5c778a842c

    “A spokesperson for Belfast City Council said it does not have a policy on the removal of bonfires but will sometimes provide assistance.

    They added that “this is only done upon request from communities and their representatives, and each request is considered on a case by case basis”.”

  • mickfealty

    I’m obviously not giving you the sort of argument you want here Ken. I am just trying to note the circular idiocy over flags and the absence of political leadership.

    ‘Fleggerism’ is becoming a sport for all the NI family. SF’s hastily removed YouTube video of the bringing down of the Union flag from the City was a ‘better’ class of the same game.

    We are (generally) falling back into the warm bath of dealing in the same “mythic and symbolic” battles of the past. And it’s as tiresome as it is circular.

    The result is a recursive turning over of already used fissile material of the conflict in order to get ‘another turn’ out of it. A similar principle in fact to that of the fast breeder reactor.

  • mickfealty

    Sorry for the repeated graph, it seems to take time to get it to take after you publish on disqus

  • kensei

    I generally only rate arguments that make sense. This is an issue where Nationalist pols have actually shown a bit of leadership, there is demonstrable improvement over what went before and notable difference between Unionist and Nationalist reaction, as evidenced by bonfires taken away.

    Perhaps SF and others are playing games over flags. They certainly aren’t doing it with bonfires. Your claim then is stirring the pot in other items results in this? I think causation there is more than a stretch.

  • Tacapall

    Your 100% certain the whole Divis community requested this bonfire be removed ?

    Those workers removing the bonfire, are you actually going to claim they are Council workers

    Its certainly a new opening for loyalist paramilitaries next year, X amount of money for removing bonfire material from local housing estates run by them.

    The dogs in the street know who was paid to remove that bonfire.

  • kensei

    I am sure some people in Divis wanted a bonfire; someone had to make it. It seems very unpopular though, especially among pols.

    The council said they removed it. I’m not sure why I should disbelieve them?

  • Tacapall

    Obviously your not local Ken.

  • Comrade Stalin

    What drives me to despair about bonfires is the injustice of it all. Residents – on either side of the community – who live near these dangerous fires live in fear for their homes, and in some cases people’s homes have been burned down or local people have had their electricity cut off. But they dare not speak up for fear of reprisal. They are being failed by the state and the justice system.

    The problem is that it is extremely difficult to do something about this problem because the police and council are afraid to set a precedent for taking away bonfires. It wasn’t lost on me that unionist politicians carefully and deliberately chose to say nothing about these illegal, unwanted events knowing (as those who organized them knew) that they could stand accused of hypocrisy.

  • Comrade Stalin

    When I passed the bonfire (it was moved to a site just adjacent to the Westlink, right on Divis St) it was a bunch of hoods, mostly young but some older. I suspect the “Divis Hoods Liberation Association”. An assorted gang of criminals and thugs who steal/joyride/hijack cars and terrorize the Divis community. I doubt any republican leaders past or present would want their tradition celebrated by this bunch of tracksuit wearing handbag snatching drunks.

  • Comrade Stalin

    SF have shown leadership where it was practical for them to do so but I get the sense that they stayed back where they thought the dissidents were looking for trouble. Nobody stopped the Divis bonfire when it was erected and then lit in front of a building which I’m told is used by the voluntary sector in service of the local community.

    I’m also not sure the dissidents were uniformly opposed to the bonfires either. Not entirely sure that I trust the eirigi crowd ..

  • Nevin

    CS, you make a most curious observation about some republican leaders ie those who incinerated people, not just pallets and tyres.

  • kensei

    No, but the Belfast Telegraph article clearly states the council removed the bonfire:

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/bonfires-police-attacked-as-council-staff-dismantle-internment-pyre-in-west-belfast-30492042.html

    Why would they assist paramilitaries and/or hoods?

  • Comrade Stalin

    What observation would that be Nevin ?