Dublin confirm DUP cancel North-South meeting with just a days notice

Sources in the Irish government have confirmed that the DUP have asked for the North-South Ministerial Council meeting to be postponed until September. It appears to be some bleeding from the withdrawal from the party leaders talks earlier is now going into North-South co-operation. This announcement of postponing the meeting comes off the back of some positive news about the electricity inter-connector that was announced this week.

But sure what the hell, it’s not as if people in Northern Ireland are facing  some of the highest energy bills in Europe and it’s not as if our economy doesn’t depend on the South in the areas of trade and agriculture. All of these areas require co-operation between the two governments,  but not to worry, the big issue of a parade being denied the right of return in North Belfast is what’s really important to the DUP obviously.

Full statement from Eamon Gilmore

I was disappointed to learn of today’s developments in the party leaders’ talks in Belfast and the consequent postponement of the North South Ministerial Council plenary. I would hope that this is only a temporary setback and that all the parties will return to the talks as early as possible.

I am disappointed also that, as a consequence of the DUP’s and UUP’s withdrawal from the political talks in Belfast, tomorrow’s North South Ministerial Council plenary meeting in Dublin Castle has been postponed. The North South Ministerial Council is dealing with important issues, such as job creation and economic development, which would be of benefit to people across this island. I would urge all parties in Northern Ireland to continue to engage constructively through all of the institutions

 

  • Mr Angry

    Priorities. Eh?

  • SK

    Well that’ll show Dublin for banning that parade in Ardoyne

    …oh hang on a second

  • Mick Fealty

    Sticky summer ahead?

  • Tugger

    Civil rights and the freedom of religious expression are, obviously, more important than a showpiece talking shop which no-one takes seriously anyway.

  • sergiogiorgio

    Exactly Tugger, the right to parade your bigoted triumphalism straight through a community that don’t want it. The game is up Tugger. All this nationalist, now you call Catholic violence, that brought Belfast to a standstill last year. No wait that was your friendly civil rights respecting, religiously disenfranchised loyalists. Keep rewriting those history books fella.

  • Mc Slaggart

    Tugger

    “Civil rights and the freedom of religious expression are, obviously”

    This crap is costing jobs!!!!!!

    I like most people have had enough of this crazy crap.

    The Irish government was going to pay to upgrade the alternate route (Belfast…we need to take a bus to make sure to march a bit of road) and the OO would not take it.

    I propose in “Nationalist” controlled areas everyone gets the right to march on all of the queens roads. I am sure you and the OO would support such a policy.

  • Tugger

    People should not have to be forced into a swamp/forest to walk home from their city centre while engaging in religious expression.

    It sounds not too dissimilar to generously providing the blacks with their own toilets, water fountains and seating areas in southern USA…..

  • Tugger

    sergiogiorgio: Exactly Tugger, the right to parade your bigoted triumphalism straight through a community that don’t want it.

    Only 27% of the people living on Crumlin Rd at the roundabout want parades banned from passing by.

    [a href=”http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/majority-of-residents-willing-to-compromise-on-orange-marches-1-6113950″]Newsletter – Majority of residents willing to compromise[/a]

  • sergiogiorgio

    Come on now Tugger pick your minority. I thought you punters went for the Israeli ticket, now it’s poor, black America of the 60’s. I reckon black America would be disgusted to be paralleled by a bunch of bigots glorifying in their bloody past and dressing it up as some sort of civil/religious right.

  • NOT NOW JOHN

    Tugger, what is your solution to the Parades Issue?

  • sergiogiorgio

    Take it up with the government appointed Parades Commission Tugger and try and get the paraders not to piss on catholic chapels and sing the Famine song. Religious/civil rights my ass.

  • Tugger

    NOT NOW JOHN: Tugger, what is your solution to the Parades Issue?

    I’d like to see respect for protestants expressing their religious beliefs and cultural heritage. It’s not much to ask really.

  • NOT NOW JOHN

    Tugger,

    Perhaps you misunderstood the question. Let me put it a different way. How do you think the Parades Issue should be addressed?

  • Tugger

    sergiogiorgio: I reckon black America would be disgusted to be paralleled by a bunch of bigots glorifying in their bloody past and dressing it up as some sort of civil/religious right.

    That’s a nice way to describe hundreds of thousands of people.

    Sweeping statements about a group of people like that sound like the kind of things a racist would say…..

  • Tugger

    NOT NOW JOHN: Perhaps you misunderstood the question. Let me put it a different way. How do you think the Parades Issue should be addressed?

    People with influence in the catholic community in Northern Ireland should appeal for respect for their protestant neighbours while they express their religious beliefs and cultural heritage. No more protests, threats, violence or ratcheting up of tension from politicians, clergy, etc before protestant religious processions take place.

    Those who threaten or carry out violence from the catholic community should be given over to the police and processed through the justice system.

    Imagine how much easier it would be to sell things like the Irish language, protestant participation in gaelic sports, etc, etc if this kind of tolerance was shown towards parades….

  • Greenflag

    Next Headline coming up no doubt –

    ‘ Unionist MPs at Westminster refuse to attend House of Commons in future in protest at the Parade’s Commission refusal to permit 1 of 2500 Orange Parades the right to march where they are not wanted .

    The reaction of the remaining 640 MP’s at Westminster has been restrained in the public corridors . However the sound of unrestrained laughter and hoots of derision was mixed with far too many hoots of “Don’t forget not to come back ‘

    An SDLP and two other MP’s with close connections to NI were visibly shaken by the reaction of their fellow MPs ‘

    One was quoted as saying she never really believed the Brits wanted out of Northern Ireland permanently until now !

  • NOT NOW JOHN

    Ok Tugger, Let’s take it one step at a time.

    Who do you think should make determinations on parades?

    a) The Parades Commission
    b) The PSNI
    c) The Minister of Justice
    d) The First Minister
    e) The First Minister and the Deputy First Minister acting jointly
    f) The Secretary of State for NI
    g) The Irish Foreign Minister and the UK Secretary of State for NI acting jointly
    h) The North South Ministerial Council
    i) The leaders of Unionism acting jointly
    j) Local Councils
    k) A newly constituted organisation
    l) No organisation should determine parades; all parades should be allowed to go ahead without conditions.

  • Tugger

    NOT NOW JOHN: Who do you think should make determinations on parades?

    a) The Parades Commission
    b) The PSNI
    c) The Minister of Justice
    d) The First Minister
    e) The First Minister and the Deputy First Minister acting jointly
    f) The Secretary of State for NI
    g) The Irish Foreign Minister and the UK Secretary of State for NI acting jointly
    h) The North South Ministerial Council
    i) The leaders of Unionism acting jointly
    j) Local Councils
    k) A newly constituted organisation
    l) No organisation should determine parades; all parades should be allowed to go ahead without conditions.

    There is no need for anyone to make these kind of decisions. A simple act of tolerance and respect from Northern Ireland’s catholic community would end all of this nonsense for good.

  • belfastboyo

    DUP/UUP/OO/UVF/DUP simply hate the Catholic youth. This is primarily what they are about. All other issues are merely side issues.

  • Neil

    I’d like to see respect for protestants expressing their religious beliefs and cultural heritage. It’s not much to ask really.

    Female genital mutilation is a religious act. It’s part of some people’s cultural heritage. I don’t respect the act or the people who carry it out. The cultural religious argument isn’t the magic bullet you think it is. Sometimes cultures die. Sometimes that’s a good thing.

  • Niall Noigiallach

    “People with influence in the catholic community in Northern Ireland should appeal for respect for their protestant neighbours while they express their religious beliefs and cultural heritage. No more protests, threats, violence or ratcheting up of tension from politicians, clergy, etc before protestant religious processions take place.

    Those who threaten or carry out violence from the catholic community should be given over to the police and processed through the justice system.”

    You’ve got to be kidding here, right? Were you not on another thread practically threatening violence yourself a while ago?

    Religious processions? You are my friend, delusional to the point of hilarity. You got yourselves banned from that stretch of road big lad. Yourselves and nobody else. Like the bigotted buck eejit last year who accompanied the morning parade past Ardoyne in front of the cameras while screaming and shouting “Yiz are f*cking second class citizens so yiz are”.

    Blame the hallion batallion who accompany the bands, pissing, cursing, abusing and hating anything remotely Catholic when you’re marching. To think that some our great grandparents actually feared you neanderthals years ago, it’s embarrassing

  • NOT NOW JOHN

    Tugger, you are saying that any organisation who wishes to march should be allowed to march anywhere anytime without restrictions?

  • Tugger

    Neil: Female genital mutilation is a religious act. It’s part of some people’s cultural heritage. I don’t respect the act or the people who carry it out. The cultural religious argument isn’t the magic bullet you think it is. Sometimes cultures die. Sometimes that’s a good thing.

    Female genital mutilation is not a valid comparison to a religious musical procession.

    I shouldn’t really have to point that out to you.

  • Tugger

    Niall Noigiallach: You’ve got to be kidding here, right? Were you not on another thread practically threatening violence yourself a while ago?

    Eh no, no I wasn’t.

  • Tugger

    NOT NOW JOHN: Tugger, you are saying that any organisation who wishes to march should be allowed to march anywhere anytime without restrictions?

    I’m saying peaceful, dignified religious musical processions which have been occurring annually for over one hundred years should be respected and tolerated by all.

  • Neil

    Your cultural and religious defence carries no weight. If your culture becomes too much hassle for the rest of us then it goes the way of the dodo. So sad, too bad, cry me a river. Enjoy your mope.

  • tacapall

    Tugger so why do you carry banners commemorating murderers to a religious parade ?

  • Sp12

    “People should not have to be forced into a swamp/forest to walk home from their city centre while engaging in religious expression.”

    Please, let us bow our heads and
    YEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=264711027067189

  • NOT NOW JOHN

    Tugger, you appear to be struggling with the questions. I’ll try to ask it in a different way. You appeared to indicate that it was your view that there was no need for a decision making body. Are you now saying that only certain parades should not be subject to restrictions but that others should and therefore there WOULD be a need for a decision making body to make determinations in respect of SOME parades?

  • Neil

    That vid was the last time your Christian chums walked down the road. ****sniffff****

    :'(

  • Tugger

    tacapall: Tugger so why do you carry banners commemorating murderers to a religious parade ?

    I am a musician – I don’t carry banners on parade.

  • Tugger

    NOT NOW JOHN: Tugger, you appear to be struggling with the questions. I’ll try to ask it in a different way. You appeared to indicate that it was your view that there was no need for a decision making body. Are you now saying that only certain parades should not be subject to restrictions but that others should and therefore there WOULD be a need for a decision making body to make determinations in respect of SOME parades?

    You’re going to run out of straw if you keep this up….

    We’re talking here about a group of mostly elderly protestants taking part in a religious procession accompanied by a few bands of amateur musicians who are probably willing to refrain from playing as they pass the Crumlin Rd roundabout.

    Is it too much to show them tolerance for five or ten minutes??

  • tacapall

    I suppose your a blind musician then. Another one of the deluded who thinks his forefathers fought at the battle of the Boyne.

  • Tugger

    And that contributes what to this discussion exactly???

  • NOT NOW JOHN

    Tugger, it is becoming clear that you have no idea how to resolve the parades issue. Your solution appears simply one of let the Orange Order march were it wants when it wants. This is very much how it was in pre-1972 Stormont. The fact is that that attitude played a major role in the demise of the old Stormont. However our unionist leaders have still not learned the lessons. Let me be clear. This is not going to happen.

  • Comrade Stalin

    We’re talking here about a group of mostly elderly protestants

    No, we’re talking about a group of oiled-up sectarian dickheads singing “No Pope of Rome”. Stop lying.

  • Tugger

    NOT NOW JOHN:Your solution appears simply one of let the Orange Order march were it wants when it wants.

    I have not said that. Why feel the need to put words in my mouth?

  • Tugger

    Comrade Stalin (profile) 3 July 2014 at 8:30 pm
    We’re talking here about a group of mostly elderly protestants

    No, we’re talking about a group of oiled-up sectarian dickheads singing “No Pope of Rome”. Stop lying.

    Half a million people take part in or spectate during the Twelfth parades in Northern Ireland each year. What percentage of them are ‘oiled-up sectarian dickheads’??

  • tacapall

    Em it debunks your religious procession lie.

  • Roy Walsh

    Christ, they’re still playing the spoilt kids they used to get away with before Stormont was prorogued, that was 42 years ago, they’re a bit old for playing like they still own the football.
    If the Unionist parties don’t like it, Scotland is just a few miles to the east……… oh wait, September’s coming, where to now?
    Time really to grow up, stop blaming everything on the evil Catholic residents, and accept the natural change.

  • Tugger

    Roy Walsh: If the Unionist parties don’t like it, Scotland is just a few miles to the east……… oh wait, September’s coming, where to now?

    If the ‘Famine Song’ is racist surely this comment is too.

  • http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

    Better to ignore trolls instead of feeding them, should there be any of them lurking around.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Half a million people take part in or spectate during the Twelfth parades in Northern Ireland each year.

    Yes. Those are the parades which go ahead.

    The one we are talking about, the disputed one, is where the dickhead behaviour is going on.

    Try to keep up.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Roy – I’m not sure why unionists or anyone else should go to Scotland. They live here.

  • MYtwocents

    Joe, that’s two threads at least, that you have referred to trolls, if you see someone trolling, grow a pair of balls and name them.

  • MYtwocents

    Roy, picture this, Scotland votes for independence, it has a 5 to 1 poddy/pape mix, 1000000, bitter unionists take your advise and make the trip across, 1000000 famine survivors make the trip in reverse, is this getting you wet.

  • mac tire

    “…elderly protestants”

    UPC. Do I win a prize?

  • Hopping The Border

    “We’re talking here about a group of mostly elderly protestants taking part in a religious procession accompanied by a few bands of amateur musicians who are probably willing to refrain from playing as they pass the Crumlin Rd roundabout.”

    Exhibit A:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxmdZQQ-9vk&feature=youtu.be

    Note crowd of mostly skinhead young gentlemen singing “Oh the famine is over, why don’t you go home” over police lines to Catholic residents.

  • MYtwocents

    Roy, but hold on, how Scotland is 100% proddy and papesville has become100% (well you get the picture), and the dislike between the two peoples facing each other over the “few miles” leads to a war over fishing rights, now England has to step in, she cant have this on her doorstep, before you know it, the whole of the British isles are a nation once again. sorry, has that made you go all droopy, again.

  • tacapall

    MYtwocent your taking too many drugs, its not down to the British government about fishing rights its the EU and why would England what to interfere in the fishing affairs of an independent Scotland.

  • Sp12

    “Exhibit A:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxmdZQQ-9vk&feature=youtu.be

    Is that Sloth 1:22 in?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxmdZQQ-9vk#t=82

    Hey you guys!!!!
    Yeoooooooooooooooooo!

  • MYtwocents

    Christ taca, they would be interfering in the war. no wonder you lot have trouble understanding you neighbours.

    Roy, on your comment, “If the Unionist parties don’t like it, Scotland is just a few miles to the east” you should try using them words as lyrics and attach them to a catchy tune, just dont use a beach boys tune, irish nats dont like the beach boys.

  • http://www/twitter.com/billyulster Billy Ulster

    “But sure what the hell, it’s not as if people in Northern Ireland are facing some of the highest energy bills in Europe”

    The reason the energy bills are so high is due to the set up of all island single electricity market – a new interconnector between north and south is not going to change this.

    It is amazing that the general public (both north and south) have absolutely no idea as to what costs their electricity bills are made up from under the all island market and the money wasted by some of the payments made within the markets.

    Furthermore, it is absolutely amazing that no-one realises that the Irish government in fact owns the companies that both own and operate the electricity infrastructure in NI.

    ESB owns NIE: Something which both the DUP and UUP objected to at the time (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12054214), only for the DUP Minister to sign off at a later stage (http://sluggerotoole.com/2010/09/21/ni-energy-minister-i-have-received-assurances-from-esb-on-a-range-of-issues-relating-to-the-transaction/)

    EIRGRID owns SONI (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/eirgrid-to-buy-transmission-network-soni-for-e376m-26471317.html)

    Both ESB and EIRGRID are irish government owned.

    The all island electricity market was created back in 2007 – since then customers bills have rocketed which makes a mockery of the claim that it was created to benefit customers across the island.

    Some more skeptical people would argue that it was only created as part of the overall agenda to have a united ireland in all but name!

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Tugger

    “A simple act of tolerance and respect from Northern Ireland’s catholic community would end all of this nonsense for good.”

    I see.

    Well, maybe you have a point.
    For instance, the 12 parades last year in Londonderry, Magherafelt, Carnlough and Rasharkin.

    So, you might have a point. BUT, is it possible that for the nationalist residents to show tolerance and respect that maybe there has to be similar tokens of respect from the marchers?

    If that is indeed the case then what acts of respect are the Belfast lodges advocating?

    Also, IF it is a religious procession then the need for non-religious symbols (which happen to be among the most offensive symbols) is minimal.

    Flags, banners (of bands, not lodges) and plastic union flag hats have little if any religious significance.

    So, for your argument to carry any weight, the religious aspect of the march should be apparent above all else.

    That is not the case is it though is it?

    For every religious symbol on display there will be 10 Rangers shirts, 9 red white and blue wigs, 8 grammatically incorrect insulting T-shirts, 7 latest edition loyalist novelty flags, 6 ‘simply the best loyalist anthem’ CDs, 5 topless sunburnt drunken men, 4 mini-flegs, 3 cans of Tennents, 2 political representatives of ‘the people’ and tracksuit wearing teen in a pear tree.

    Get rid of the associated trinkets of drinking-class loyalism and then your stance of a religious procession has some merit.

  • Roy Walsh

    Tugger, Comrade, Mytwocents, read between the lines.

  • Joe_Hoggs

    Am Ghobsmacht,

    Orangeism’s foundations are the reformed faith, next but of lesser importance is its political element, next is its cultural aspect and then its historical aspect. The Union flag does have a part to play on the parade but common sense also needs to be exercised.

  • Alan N/Ards

    Am Ghobsmacht

    Good post.
    Middle class unionism has had enough. Parading, marching or whatever you want to call it is a working class pastime that the middle classes avoid like the plague.

    Our towns are plastered with flags( including paramilitary) but they don’t care. Many of us are embarrassed by the state of our towns but they don’t care. Middle class areas are now under attack by flag erecting loyalists but they don’t care.

    Political unionism has shown us that the OO is all that they care about. They need to break free from OO control, like the politicians in the south broke free from the catholic church controlling them.

  • NOT NOW JOHN

    Tugger, I did not put words in your mouth. What I said was how it appears to me. If I have misunderstood what you are trying to say then perhaps that is a result of your inability to present your point clearly. I have asked you a number of times what your solution is and you continue to avoid answering the question. Is that because you have no solution?

    Not only do you appear not to have a solution you appear not to understand the problem. One minute you are presenting the issue as merely one of a few elderly gentlemen in a religious procession for five or ten minutes, the next you are escalating it to an infringement of protestant civil rights with allegations of racism thrown in. Your message here is so similar to that of the unionist leaders that I wonder do you think for yourself at all. So one more time I will invite you to put forward your solution to the parades issue, hopefully in a clear and unambiguous manner which leaves no room for misunderstanding. I have not yet heard a unionist leader put forward a solution so here is your chance to demonstrate that unionists both understand the problem and have the ability to resolve the parades problem. To help you along here are five key questions: hopefully you can answer them this time.

    What should the government do?
    What should Unionist leaders do?
    What should the Orange Order do?
    What should Nationalist leaders do?
    What should Nationalist residents do?

  • MYtwocents

    Roy is this your response? “Tugger, Comrade, Mytwocents, read between the lines.”

    Again, , how’s your Irish nat version of the famine song going?
    last night you had got as far as .”If the Unionist parties don’t like it, Scotland is just a few miles to the east”,
    you will need a catchy hook line, something along the lines of, why dont you f**k off.

  • Roy Walsh

    A lassie on the ‘second biggest show’ in the country this morning stating she had saved for, and booked a holiday here for herself and her kids, questioning would Robinson stand over her inability to get on holiday should the ‘graduated response’ as likely it will, lead to Road closures like during the graduated response following the Democratic decision to move Belfast City Hall in line with local councils in Britain.
    This has the potential to become the late nineties again where my journey home from work, 11 miles, took one hour fourty minutes.
    The ‘graduated response’ has the real potential to frustrate, again, foreign inward investment so ensuring our children have to leave home and head to Australia, America, China to obtain employment, the brit’s must be fed up to the back teeth funding the spongers and getting nothing back on their investment.
    As to the Unionist withdrawl from the meeting, this is a mechanism designed to improve the lives of citizens whether they live in Castleblaney or Derry, frustrating the potential health, education, economic benefits for people, so, while Unionist politicians, and their fellow travelers will remain safely in their overpaid jobs, our children are stuffed on aeroplanes, I see them, and distraught parents, each morning as I go to work.
    What’s the great plan now Peter, Mike, Jim Gerald?

  • Roy Walsh

    Ah, your two cents, you’re on the correct thread. As above, have a reboot at what I wrote, all of it.

  • Joe_Hoggs

    Roy Walsh ,

    You need to learn that Orangeism needs to be shown tolerance.

  • sergiogiorgio

    The peaceful majority in NI should call unionists bluff and request the Parades Commission allow the Crumlin parade. It should be met with backs turned by the residents on the interface. Give the children their pyrrhic victory and then invite them back to the talks. Even their own electorate are embarrassed by their latest “initiative”. I’m just surprised Robbo hasn’t yet threatened to resign – that would have been the third time in 6 months, by my reckoning. Unionist politicians are hastening a united Ireland, they just don’t realise it.

  • Greenflag

    Now here’s some good news on South North practical cooperation -real tolerance one might say .

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-28155737

    Down with that sort of thing say Unionist political leaders :(

    I guess one can expect no less from political leaders whose entire history is a study in ‘intolerance ‘ and lack of respect for the provinces former religious minority under the hypocritical cover of ‘religious freedom ‘ of course :(

  • Greenflag

    @ AG ,

    Good post above .It raises the question of whether or not this parade is a ‘religious ‘ parade or something else . I don’t see how anybody could object to a parade of elderly or not so elderly Orangemen decked in traditional regalia , carrying their national emblems , banners etc if this were truly a religious procession . Correct me if I’m wrong here but did’nt Christ preach ‘love thy neighbour etc .Presumably the hangers on filled with the spirit of alcohol need some ‘real ‘ Christianity ?

    It’s the something else part that genuinely upsets all reasonable people.

  • Greenflag

    Tugger,

    ‘You need to learn that Orangeism needs to be shown tolerance.’

    Indeed , But it also has to earn it. We live in a competitive society . You don’t win friends and influence those who may be opposed to your views or politics by pissing in their front gardens or hurling abuse at them .?

    It’s that ‘thrawn ‘ trait that makes some folk behave like children when whats needed is some ‘adult ‘ consideration .

    On a general note the fact that so many parades pass without problems even in areas which have a strong nationalist minority is an indication that the OO are accorded more tolerance than perhaps they deserve ?

    Enjoy your 12th and don’t get water cannoned or end up in jail .It’s simply not worth it .

  • Joe_Hoggs

    Greenflag.

    by pissing in their front gardens or hurling abuse at them .?

    I agree and in those instances I would rather than Nationalist and Unionist dealt with the offendes either by exepelling them from the Orange or expelling them from following the parades.

    Nationalists can report individuals to the police and to senior ranking members of the Orange to take action. The Orange will act but it’s best to go to somone like Drew Nelson etc.

    I more than anyone want the bad apples from Orangeism removed.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Joe

    i truly believe you do.

  • Roy Walsh

    Joe, quid pro quo, the Orange Order have shown nothing but contempt for nationalism for centuries, hence my reference above to their spoiled attitude.
    Frankly, the big house Unionists still show the same contempt for their own people and the ordinary, working class Unionist saviour, the DUP have bought into the cropping lie down approach, just give the poor prods a bit to keep them loyal. A close relative, born and reared in Snugville St. told me in 1992, we were no better off than our Catholic neighbors on the falls, a few hundred yards away, my father had no vote as he didn’t own the house.
    It is time for political change here as the same old, same old has done nothing after twenty years of peace, we’re still arguing over the right to coat trail through an area where you’re not wanted, time to say, OK, get up to Armagh, have the meeting and let’s see how we can better our taxpayers living standards, create prospects for our now graduates, like David McCann, and refrain from blocking roads every night, while the police look on doing nothing to, while, as above, well paid Unionist politicians sit on their arse directing, denying and saying no, still while working class prods, often without work for two generations, listen.

  • Roy Walsh

    Again spellchecker. Choppy.
    Greenflag, a point of information, in the province, the religious minority is, and always was, the amalgam of Protestant faiths.
    Why else would they want to rid themselves of one quarter of Ulster?

  • Joe_Hoggs

    Roy Walsh,

    There are very few references to Catholicism or Nationalism within the Orange – this is a myth that has been pedalled around for too long.

  • mac tire

    @Joe “Orangeism’s foundations are the reformed faith, next but of lesser importance is its political element, next is its cultural aspect and then its historical aspect.”

    I respect that answer Joe. I understand it and, for myself, that describes what I see (albeit from very far away).

    So why do some supporters insist that these are merely church parades?

  • Roy Walsh

    So Joe, it’s not Orangemen or their supporters who block roads, put up flags at Catholic Churches, urinate at the doors of Catholic Churches?
    There might be little in your rules, except of course not being permitted to attend Catholic service or marry one of them Fenton but, it is there, day in, day out or, more particularly, between May and September every year.

  • MYtwocents

    The Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) has confirmed they are investigating whether a man from Northern Ireland has travelled to Syria.

    It follows reports earlier in the week that a man from Londonderry joined rebel forces in the country.

    The BBC understands the enquiries follow searches at a house in Melmore Gardens in Creggan on Thursday night.

    so if a flag flaying from a lamp post is proof that loyalists support the KKK.
    then this must prove that irish nationalists support ISIS.

    both bloodthirsty, as I claimed a few days back.

  • Joe_Hoggs

    Dearest Roy,

    So Joe, it’s not Orangemen or their supporters who block roads, put up flags at Catholic Churches, urinate at the doors of Catholic Churches?
    There might be little in your rules, except of course not being permitted to attend Catholic service or marry one of them Fenton but, it is there, day in, day out or, more particularly, between May and September every year.
    —————————————————————————-

    Orangemen shouldn’t be blocking roads as they have not been instructed to and I’m not aware of any putting up flags on churches either or indeed urinating on a Catholic church (one band member did).

    A few rogue elements do not define an entire institution.

  • Reader

    Roy Walsh: A close relative, born and reared in Snugville St. told me in 1992, we were no better off than our Catholic neighbors on the falls, a few hundred yards away, my father had no vote as he didn’t own the house.
    Didn’t need to own the house to have a council vote. A renter and their spouse would also have the vote. Though a lodger or someone still living with their parents wouldn’t have a council vote (though they *would* have a vote for Stormont or Westminster).

  • Roy Walsh

    Joe, loyalist flags up in the grounds of Catholic Churches in Larne and on the Ormeau Rd, outside Catholic homes throughout the six counties, urinating outside Churches is not a one off, it happened on the Woodstock Road in 1997, and the Orangemen not being instructed to block roads, really, the trouble last year on the top of the Woodvale Rd?

  • Roy Walsh

    Reader, my point being, working class hun and working class taigs were in the same boat.
    Renting homes, as councils weren’t keen on building, was the only way to be in a house, yes, their grandfather would have had a vote, as would the landlord but, they, despite working, did not.

  • Joe_Hoggs

    loyalist flags up in the grounds of Catholic Churches in Larne and on the Ormeau Rd, outside Catholic homes throughout the six counties, urinating outside Churches is not a one off, it happened on the Woodstock Road in 1997, and the Orangemen not being instructed to block roads, really, the trouble last year on the top of the Woodvale Rd?
    ——————————————————————–

    Roy,

    Not OO directed on all fields.

  • Reader

    Roy Walsh: Reader, my point being, working class hun and working class taigs were in the same boat.
    Renting homes, as councils weren’t keen on building, was the only way to be in a house, yes, their grandfather would have had a vote, as would the landlord but, they, despite working, did not.

    My point was that the main tenants (renter and spouse) *did* have the vote in rented accommodation. Your example (your friend’s father) was a second generation resident in a house rented by your friend’s grandfather. He would have actually been in the same situation if the grandfather had owned the house instead of renting – this was the “Ratepayer Franchise” for council elections.
    Though it seems unlikely, the landlord might not have had the vote if, for instance, he had lived with *his* parents.

  • Greenflag

    @Roy Walsh

    ‘Greenflag, a point of information, in the province, the religious minority is, and always was, the amalgam of Protestant faiths’

    You’ve been misinformed . In 1920 in the 9 counties that make up the traditional province of Ulster -non catholics had a small overall majority of some 50,000 – 100,000 as per the census.

    In the same 9 counties today non Catholics i,e the amalgam of Protestant denominations would number 250,000 less than RCs .

    ‘Why else would they want to rid themselves of one quarter of Ulster?’

    For political stability and to maintain the Union . Had they included Donegal, Cavan & Monaghan in the NI State of 1920 -given the then higher birth rates of RC’s they’d have had much stronger opposition with the likelihood that that opposition would edge out unionist voters .

    As it turned out the NI of 6 counties has enjoyed wonderful political stability and excellent inter denominational relations for the past 94 years has it not .

    And I see it’s getting better and better apart from trifling things like sectarianism , the OO and the dissidents and the Twaddlers and the resign threatening political leadership etc etc etc .

    Keep looking back seems to be the message from the political leadership of unionism . Not only have they missed the bus to the future and lost the present but even the past that was once so bountiful is now looking rather frayed and combustible .

    It’s a sad lookout and all for the want of common sense leadership. It’s not rocket scientists they need -just common sense :(

    .

  • Seamuscamp

    Roy Walsh (3 June 10.25)
    I can’t see why you need to be so offensive towards Unionists. They have as much right to live in Ireland as you or I; they have no more affinity to modern Scotland than you or I. You put yourself in exactly the same bus as the Famine Song singers. It’s shameful and counter-productive.

    Tugger
    “People should not have to be forced into a swamp/forest to walk home from their city centre while engaging in religious expression.”
    What exactly do you mean by “religious expression”?

    “Only 27% of the people living on Crumlin Rd at the roundabout want parades banned from passing by”
    I think I’d want something better than a headline in the Newsletter to convince me of how the Crumlin Rd locals feel. The origin of the statistic is a BBC Spotlight ad-hoc poll of some of the households – we don’t know how many people or what proportion they were or how representative they were, so it doesn’t really qualify as an authoritative source. But your quoted 27% is misleading. Here is what the Newsletter actually says:
    “They found that: five would not comment; 12 wanted all parades banned; nine said they wanted all parades to go ahead; and 12 said they were open to a compromise.” And a further 6 households were not polled.
    That means that of 44 households:
    14% were not polled
    11% refused to answer
    27% wanted all parades banned
    27% were willing to compromise
    20% wanted the parades to go ahead
    Even the OO spokesperson in the Newsletter didn’t represent this as an endorsement of marching. It might be that some sort of compromise could sway opinion, but if it shows anything, it is that a large majority don’t recognise any “right” to march. Compromise might change attitudes, but compromise means talking to people the OO won’t talk to. So stop playing the victim card; we are witnessing self-flagellation and delusions of grandeur.

    The problem with ad-hoc doorstepping (by the BBC or anyone else) in a Belfast context particularly, is that you never know how reliable the answers are. Remember Heaney: “Whatever you say, say nothing”.

    :

  • Roy Walsh

    Seamus, again, look again, this time read the whole comment then, understand that I’m referring the potential breakdown of the ‘union’ they adhere to and if the land they certainly do have affinity with, leaves the union to what will the ‘Ulster-Scots’ give their allegiance?
    If they’d any sense, being a small minority in a UK parliament, even with Scotland gone, rather than the controlling influence in Dáil Éireann, they would have the power they have missed since 1972.

  • Alan N/Ards

    Roy
    I don’t have a problem with your last post re: being a minority at Westminster. It kind of makes sense. But I’m not sure it will make life any easier for people here in NI around the twelfth. The problems we have will still be here.
    The present” leaders” of unionism have deserted the middle classes in search of the “loyalist” vote in North and East Belfast. They are forcing the unionist middle class to abstain from voting or to vote non unionist.

    My wife and I gave our vote to the Alex Attwood at the last election. We will not be voting for the present so called unionist parties again. We have discussed this with friends and they are of the same mind. The Alliance and SDLP will benefit from our votes. We are still pro union but are not prepared to accept the stupidity that comes from our politicians. We are non Orange unionists and have had enough of our politicians being controlled by them.

  • Roy Walsh

    Alan, agreed, the issue for PU, albeit not L community, in this part of the country has long been, being as fed up with road blocks, radio rants and trying to explain to people who don’t live here just what the issue actually is, as their nationalist neighbours.
    The key thing is, if you go to England you and your wife are just Paddy’s.
    The purpose of the all-Ireland bodies is to improve lives here and better enable we, as a people, to live together, halted by the leaders of unionism because they didn’t get their own way, from a body put into place by the government they give allegiance to.
    Today my daughter comes home from University in England, on Monday my son, if this childish nonsense from the spoiled brats is permitted to continue, they will leave again as there’ll be no work here for them, both did good professional degrees at universities better than the options here and, like yourselves, I’m fed up with the crap being fed to our youngsters which, in 1998 I voted to get rid of.
    I think the flag issue realigned DUP thinking on where their support base is., having moved into UUP terrority for a long time, UUP appear to be following the duppies in seeking the handline vote, so corraling fighting Jim who is their biggest threat.
    But this internecine feuding is not serving the people who pay their wages.

  • doylefoyle

    Interesting if nothing else that the meeting has been ‘postponed’ – especially given the explicit reference to attendance at such meetings as part of the Ministerial Code. Methinks the September meeting will go ahead as planned.

  • IrelandNorth

    Interesting how unionists requested postponement after Irish politicians had attended meetings in London with British Taoiseach. Why couldn’t unionists reciprocate by meeting Irish PM. Smacks of sleight of hand and duplicity, the kind of apparent smart alec behaviour that makes unionists and unionism difficult to countenance at times. Intra-Irish conference should have proceeded in their absence, with more authentic participants from all sides. Also, how long will this north/south misnomer continue by denying genuine geographical orientations on the island.