Castlereagh South, Sinn Fein and the new Girl on the block

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I had an interesting conversation recently with the Sinn Fein candidate for Castlereagh South, Nuala Toman.

Being honest, I was hoping for an insight into Sinn Fein strategy for the forthcoming elections and, perhaps, a snappy line that I might use as a headline for this article to engage readers.

What I got was a smart, friendly, local political candidate who surprised me with her knowledge, intelligence and experience, and disarmed me somewhat with her candour and focus on the constituency she is standing in.

Castlereagh South is what may be described as a mixed constituency. Extending from Carryduff in the eastern part through Moneyreagh and taking in Cairnshill to the north, the SDLP and Alliance have done well here while Sinn Fein have performed poorly in recent elections.

The 2011 Council elections provided us with the following results in this constituency:

DUP (36.5%), 2 Seats
SDLP: (22.6%), 1 seat
Alliance: (19.6%), 1 seat
UUP: (12.0%), 1 seat
SF: (7.1%)
Green: (2.2%)

A Demographic breakdown of the electorate based on the 2011 Census results is approximately 48% nationalist and 52% unionist.

Nuala has a formidable background. She has a solid academic background in Universities in Glasgow and QUB specializing in educational development, she has worked in Gerry Adams office for Sinn Fein and has held a number of impressive posts on various voluntary bodies.

I was particularly interested in meeting Nuala because of my own interest in marginal constituencies and the demographic changes occurring rapidly in Belfast.

Our meeting in the Sinn Fein Office on the Falls Road was strangely informal. Perhaps I expected a minder or an observer. Perhaps that’s me.

We kicked off with a look at the figures. I know mine and she knew hers.

I asked her about the two key aspects of her constituency, maximizing her vote and growing it.
She was very clear that the strategy within the party was to canvass areas that had never been canvassed before.

The response was surprising according to Nuala. She had expected some hostility but experienced engagement. When pressed, she insisted this included what would have been previously perceived as exclusively Unionist areas.

I moved the conversation on, as you do, to the “bread and butter” issues.

Nuala has an admirable list of local issues which she is prioritizing for her campaign including transport, infrastructure, local access issues, housing development and local employment opportunities.

All well and good but what are her chances?

In Faha’s analysis over on my own site the combined nationalist vote in Castlereagh South should be in excess of 40%. I asked how she anticipated maximizing that vote and growing it.

She emphasised the importance of being accessible and engaging with all parts of the community. I then touched on the currently politically topical aspect of ethnic minorities.

This part of Ireland has a long history of immigrant minorities. The Celts, the Normans, the Huguenots, Scots planters, the Anglo aristocracy for example.

I asked if, given the recent racially motivated incidents in Belfast, Sinn Fein was getting any feedback from these communities. Nuala was interestingly reluctant to comment. Her concern was that by making a comment she may put at risk people in mixed or predominantly loyalist areas.

When pressed on the issue she responded that “On the South Belfast DPCSP I have actually ensured Hate Crime is a priority issue and been key to developing a strategy to tackle hate crime.”

Regarding the wider new Council area of Lisburn and Castlereagh, Fahas summary concludes:

“Similar to Mid and East Antrim, this will be a DUP dominated council. Unlike Mid and East Antrim, there is a rapid growth of the Catholic population in most of the new council. It was over 5% in the Lisburn area (the Lagan Valley constituency increase from 13% to over 18%) and also 5% in the Castlereagh area.

Even in the 2014 election, if nationalist turnout equaled unionist turnout, there would be a SDLP seat in Lisburn South and a SF seat in Killultagh. Both of these would be at the expense of the DUP. There would still be 25 DUP and UUP councilors. In another 15 or 20 years there could be additional nationalist councilors in Lisburn North, South, Downshire East and West and Castlereagh South ( possibly Alliance here instead).

This may not be a unionist dominated council in 15 to 20 years”

The question as to whether Sinn Fein will make a breakthrough in Castlereagh South will, of course, be answered on May 22nd. I would suggest that if they do, it may be at the expense of the SDLP and Alliance.

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  • OneNI

    ‘A Demographic breakdown of the electorate based on the 2011 Census results is approximately 48% nationalist and 52% unionist. ‘

    Why dont you spit it out and say Sf are hoping that ‘ethnic Catholics’ will continue to be so appalled by what passes for Unionism in NI that they will vote for nationalist parties out of tribal loyalty – even though they dont want a United Ireland

  • Drumlins Rock

    BangorDub, its not a constituency its a District Electoral Area, DEA. In the interest of fairness are you not supposed to list all the other candidates standing in the same area?

  • socaire

    OneNI, you should use the term ‘ethnic Irish’ so as not to offend the sensitivity of the British community here in Ireland.

  • http://fitzjameshorselooksattheworld.wordpress.com/ fitzjameshorse1745

    Bangor Dub,
    There are two Sinn Feins and you met one of them.
    This is the nice public version….knock every door in Castlereagh Sout but wont mention the “Leader…Peacemaker…Visionary” mural.

  • mr x

    She sounds like an educated version of Doreen Lawrence.

  • iluvni

    “I moved the conversation on, as you do, to the “bread and butter” issues.”….
    …….because there was no way I was going to ask her about the allegations concerning Gerry Adams past….

  • GEF

    DR, you have a point, in 2011 there were only 5 councillors elected in the Castlereagh South DEA. Whereas in 2014 there will by 7 vacant seats up for grabs in the new Lisburn Castlereagh City Council. Will SF gain a seat?

    Castlereagh South 2014. 12 candidates for 7 seats.

    Nathan Anderson DUP
    Wallace Douglas TUV
    John Gallen SDLP
    Brian Hanvey SDLP
    Michael Henderson Ulster Unionist Party
    Vasundhara Kamble Alliance Party
    Ben Mallon DUP
    Elizabeth McCord NI21
    Adam Murray NI21
    Vikki Nelson DUP
    Geraldine Rice Alliance Party
    Nuala Toman Sinn Féin

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27352163

  • Outsider

    Is this type of pomotion of a party and member especially within a Sinn Fein target area allowed?

  • http://bangordub.wordpress.com/ Bangordub

    Gef,
    Thanks for that,
    Outsider,
    I am categorically not promoting Sinn Fein just to be clear, my previous piece was with a Green Party candidate (John Barry).
    I am, however, a nationalist myself for the avoidance of doubt.
    illuvni,
    She is a local council candidate, not an apologist for Gerry Adams,
    Drumlins Rock,
    Fair comment, I used the term “Constituency” loosely.
    One NI,
    As I have argued over on my own blog, there happens to be a close correllation between nationalist party votes and “ethnic Catholic” population statistics. Wether this is a good thing is certainly a discussion worth having

  • Outsider

    Bangordub,

    One would be very concerned that on a high profile web site on the mouth of an election a relative anonymity has been given huge promotion. It’s also noticeable that most of the posters on here have a Sinn Fein or at least Nationalist inclination which make this appear even more perverse.

    I have no problems with you promoting a candidate but at such a time this should have been done via your own social media outlets and not via a “neutral” political web site. Where is the balance in relation to other party members? I’m quite sure the TUV, UUP or DUP would not get quite as good a write up by Slugger at the moment and if they did they would be called to account by posters on here.

  • http://fitzjameshorselooksattheworld.wordpress.com/ fitzjameshorse1745

    I suppose that would be an editorial decision rather than Bangor Dubs.
    Presumably it passed the Slugger team. Mr Dub is not a member of that team.
    So surely any criticism should be directed to Editor.
    I daresay “in the mouth of an election” is apt for 48 hours before polling day but I dont see any real problem.
    I am myself sensitive to the ethos of elections. As I said a few days ago, I am uneasy about speculation about interpretations of published turn out figures being used on election day….before polls have closed.

    I know thats hard to control in the modern era. But I like tnat self imposed Purdah that mainstream media has.
    On a more general point, numerous puff pieces have appeared in last several weeks (not in the mouth of election perhaps) and it would be interesting to see just how representaive they were.

  • Outsider

    I think Slugger need to review this article as it’s in clear breach of impartialily and might as well be a party political broadcast by Sinn Fein. Are we going to find out about all of the other candidates in this area or is it just Sinn Fein candidates who are being profiled/promoted.

    FJH – I agree with what you’re saying in relation to predicted polling and it’s off putting when we already seem to know the results.

  • http://bangordub.wordpress.com/ Bangordub

    Outsider,
    My interest in Castlereagh South was because it is a changing constituency. Sinn Fein had an appalling record here in previous elections.The DUP also have performed poorly and the “pro union” vote has been sliding.
    In fairness to Slugger, there is a perception that a bias exists from many sides. Not least the nationalist/Republican side.
    I think it is fair to point out that an interview with a Republican candidate in a genuinely interesting DEA is not exactly a bias

  • http://bangordub.wordpress.com/ Bangordub

    Outsider,
    I think it may be argued that if impartiality is a condition for posting on Slugger, it would have closed down long ago.
    Polemic comment is the raison d’etre

  • Outsider

    Bangordub,

    I understand that Slugger is in no way impartial but your post was uninformative and amounts to nothing more than the promotion of a candidate. For goodness sake below is a quote of yours:

    “What I got was a smart, friendly, local political candidate who surprised me with her knowledge, intelligence and experience, and disarmed me somewhat with her candour and focus on the constituency she is standing in.”

    In no way can this be healthy or informative reporting and it’s clear you’re pushing your own agenda.

  • http://fitzjameshorselooksattheworld.wordpress.com/ fitzjameshorse1745

    Outsider….I urge you to go back some weeks and look at some of the puff pieces that have been published.
    Some are frankly outrageous toadying.
    Mr Dubs article compares favourably with them.

  • Outsider

    FJH – What do you feel are other “puff pieces”?

  • http://fitzjameshorselooksattheworld.wordpress.com/ fitzjameshorse1745

    Not for me to say.
    You raise the possibility that Mr Dub has just written what we call a “puff piece” where he has met a little known politician and “promoted” her and by extensiion her politics.
    I daresay thats a reasonable interpretation of your original comment.
    I dont agree with your comment as it seems to set a very narrow definition of puff pieces.

    Some weeks ago, other threads appeared which by the wide definition (mine) and narrow one (yours) might be more appropriately be described as “puff pieces”.
    You will forgive me for not recognising your screen name….perhaps you are relatively new to Slugger. Perhaps you missed the series of articles.
    As they pass muster on this site, I thought you might want to familiarise yourself with what a “puff piece” really llooks like.

  • Outsider

    FJH,

    It would be incomprehensible to say that this forum is not dominated by Nationalist and Republican posters – it’s quite uncomfortable to be from a Unionist persuasion, however I feel this piece is a step too far.

    If there are other aspects of self-promotion I am also happy to condemn them too but I have checked the last number of pages and seen nothing promoting Unionism.

  • http://bangordub.wordpress.com/ Bangordub

    I should have provided a link above to Fahas council article. Here it is: http://bangordub.wordpress.com/2014/04/07/new-dea-lisburn-and-castlereagh/

  • http://bangordub.wordpress.com/ Bangordub

    Outsider,
    May I say that I engage with Unionists all the time on my own blog and am more than happy to talk with and interview anyone that cares to talk and has interesting things to say.
    Including yourself.

  • David McCann

    Outsider,

    Slugger being accused of being biased towards SF is a new one I must admit. The critique of the blog that I have made and attempted to rectify is that we don’t have enough voices from SF actually writing for the blog.

    In terms of the piece-Slugger isn’t a public service broadcaster and is not a taxpayer funded institution from what I know. People come on here for debate and a bit of banter. BD’s blog post is welcome in that regard as he takes a different stance/interest that most bloggers on here.

    I am presently working on a piece from the DUP on the local elections-we want a variety of views on the site and the comments section is largely open for anybody to critique the content of an article.

  • http://fitzjameshorselooksattheworld.wordpress.com/ fitzjameshorse1745

    Outsider….I thought that your problem was the “promotion” of a politician and an agenda….so I pointed up that there are more obvious examples of this.
    You cant find any …that “promote unionism”.
    So perhaps your problem is not the promotion of a politician …but the promotion of a nationalist politician.

    The puff pieces to which I referred include some on people known to be unionists.
    Or perhaps you have a very narrow view on unionism.

  • Outsider

    David McCann,

    I would suggest there is a shortage of Unionist posters as all threads seem to be full of hatred from Nationalist/Republican perspective. FJH above is a prime example – if you disagree with him you’re secterian and only Unionists can be sectarian.

  • http://bangordub.wordpress.com/ Bangordub

    Outsider,
    Perhaps you would care to comment on the thread rather than those commenting?

  • mac tire

    Hmmm, Outsider – looks like FJH has stumbled upon something about you in that last post of his. And it obviously annoys.
    Maith an fear, FJH.

  • Outsider

    Oh the old gang up tactic – that’s three on one now. It’s perfectly okay for FJH to accuse me of sectarianism but when one defends oneself – oh la la.

  • http://fitzjameshorselooksattheworld.wordpress.com/ fitzjameshorse1745

    Er I dont think I accused anyone of sectarianism.
    Very few people have ever accused me of sectarianism.
    Go raibh maith agat MacTire.

  • jagmaster

    Outsider I would suggest looking back through the Slugger archives these past few weeks and then still saying there is a pro Sinn Féin agenda.

    If you really do feel threatened I would recommend visiting Nelson McCausland’s blog for a pure unabashed pro Unionist viewpoint.

  • mac tire

    Outsider, I am ganging up with no one here.
    Could you point out to me where you were called sectarian, please?
    I can point out where you have accused others of the same thing.

    You suggest there is a shortage of Unionist posters here. That is incorrect.

    You suggest all threads seem to be full of hatred from Nationalist/Republican perspective. That’s not true either. While I can’t speak for all Nats/Repubs I don’t sense hatred in replies.

    You suggest FJH is sectarian. Now while I don’t personally know FJH I have read quite a few of his posts/articles online. Sectarian is not the word I would use to describe them.

    TBH you sound like someone from the Prod Co – using emotive language, it seems, just for the sake of it.

  • Mick Fealty

    Commenting rules people?!! Try and find a clear ball or two, and give it a good hard kick. Shin kickers, or Shinners or anyone else, are out!!

  • Outsider

    Mac tire,

    On the DUP thread practically every post is anti DUP from a Nationalist or Rebublican contributor – even the thread heading suggests that that the DUP are not equiped to work with others.

    My main problem with this thread is the link between Unionists and Nazism which is perverse and false.

    FJH incited I was sectarian for pulling this thread as being practically a PPB by stating “So perhaps your problem is not the promotion of a politician …but the promotion of a nationalist politician.” This was offensive and playing the man not the ball.

  • http://fitzjameshorselooksattheworld.wordpress.com/ fitzjameshorse1745

    It was offensive and playing the man?
    I thought it was a reasonable analysis based on that which had gone before.

  • Outsider

    No it was not reasonable and yes you played the man. At no point did I say I wanted puff pieces on Unionists – you came back and said I didn’t want a Nationalist about the place.

  • http://bangordub.wordpress.com/ Bangordub

    Outsider,
    I have a serious problem if you are suggesting a link with Unionism and Nazism. Please stack that up or withdraw.

  • Outsider

    No the link between Unionism and Nazism was made within the DUP thread by a ‘tolerant’ poster.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Oh Bangordub, outsider is fighting bravely to uphold te purity of Unionism against an old jaded Anglo-Irish Lundy called Seaan who is actually making the link (with examples!!!) hand over fist over on the “DUP fight for the Flag” postings.

    I must, as a tolerant liberal, and in all honour, come to his defence here……

  • Outsider

    SUN

    You proved nothing except your lack of tolerance and pure hatrid. Where is the evidence apart from some vagure recollections of yours are Remembrance day parades?

  • SeaanUiNeill

    And there was me, outsider, defending you! I’d need to check current research, but there are a plethora of articles and books detailing it all, and if I were able to mention names…..join QUB library and suss out a lot of good research into the history…….

    Not hatred, simply sorrow at the dishonesty shown in the treatment of those who did fight by those who did not. And nothing so sickens as a culpable party claiming the moral high ground, like Adams as the “Face of Sinn Féin” speaking about cleaning up corruption after his self serving defence of Liam and his treatment of Áine. Its not just one side, you know, its the texture of our political life, but my blood boils at anyone trying to plant white hats on one lot of tweedledums and black hats on the other tweedledees.

    But it is not for me to deny “lack of tolerance”, although I cannot see how anyone with a smidgen of morality may tolerate lies and corruption among the self-serving from any tradition.

  • Tochais Síoraí

    Anyway, Castlereagh South? Has there always been a nationalist population around here or is it recent? Is it new builds, or for want of a better phrase, white flight?

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Can anyone say if Nuala is related to my old friend Cyril Toman? Just interested….

  • http://fitzjameshorselooksattheworld.wordpress.com/ fitzjameshorse1745

    Id forgotten about him.
    Peoples Democracy guy.
    He emigrated to USA, I believe.

  • http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

    Wikipedia said he went to Australia. I knew him and thought he would have been happiest in the USSR, being a great fan of Trotsky, down to his looks, hairstyle and facial hair. Oh wait a minute, Trotsky had to flee too.

  • jeep55

    Bangordub

    Fahas analysis of Castlereagh South is sadly in error. He predicts 3 SDLP councillors when they are only standing 2 candidates. The new Castlereagh South is slightly more Unionist that the old was and the likely result is 2 DUP, 2SDLP, 1 Alliance and 1 UUP with the last seat a contest between the 3rd DUP candidate and the 2nd Alliance. Sinn Fein transfers could help determine the final make-up.

  • http://fitzjameshorselooksattheworld.wordpress.com/ fitzjameshorse1745

    Australia…ah makes more sense than USA.
    Sorry for error.
    He was the scary looking one in PD.
    There was actually a seminar at QUB a few years back….some of that generation, Michael Farrell. Kevin Boyle (RIP) Erskine Holmes, Paul Bew, Alban magennis spoke or were in audience.
    As I recall it was actually called “40 Years of QUB and Civil Rights”.
    Which was I suppose a certain re-writing of History.
    Students might well have been civil righters…not exactly sure that QUB itself was on board..

  • http://bangordub.wordpress.com/ Bangordub

    Jeep, I think you may be mixing things up. The new DEA is slightly different to the old.

  • jeep55

    Bangordub

    Yes of course it is different – it includes parts of the old Castlereagh West. That is why it has increased from 5 to 7 seats. I’m calling the extra two seats as 1 for SDLP and 1 balanced between DUP and Alliance. The rest I see as you were so to speak.

  • Son of Strongbow

    The old Toman, not the Shinnerbot genuflected to above, had to skedaddle stage left following his faux pas carrying books banned there south into the McQuaid Theocracy to make a point.

    Apparently poor Cyril laboured under the illusion that ‘Peoples’ Democracy’ was all about civil rights. So it was Australia rather than a possibly stickier end hereabouts.

  • http://bangordub.wordpress.com/ Bangordub

    I’m actually surprised as to how personal this post has become.
    Has anyone a view on how the election may pan out?

  • Son of Strongbow

    Don’t usually do predictions as the future will take care of itself, but hey just for the hell of it here goes:

    The sitting MEPs will be returned.

    The Shinner vote will rise, but given that gang’s Dear Leader’s recent spake about never “dissociating” himself from the gang’s terrorist department Shinner voters will be unable to claim that they were in anyway hazy about what they were voting for.

    In the mirror the terrorist-linked PUP will not be forming any part of any government.

    As for expressions of “surprise”; I can understand certain individuals getting a trifle discombobulated when venturing outside their own vanity redoubt and encountering folks with differing opinions on nationalism rather than the chanting chorus they are used to.

  • http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

    I was waiting for the attempt to demonise those people who currently vote SF because of that Party’s previous ambivalent or ambiguous role regarding democratic processes and, sure enough, SOS obliges. Shame. People didn’t vote for SF in droves until they eschewed violence and, although I am not a fan of their leader, they have come a long way from the past and people should not be condemned for voting for them. The DUP were in the same boat, don’t forget.

  • Framer

    It’s the demography stupid, although if a Protestant candidate or writer started going on in the same way, the screech of sectarian would be heard in nanoseconds.

  • David Crookes

    Sorry to arrive late, bangordub. Many thanks for a jolly interesting article.

  • Mike the First

    “A demographic breakdown of the electorate based on the 2011 census results is approximately 48% nationalist and 52% unionist”

    Sorry, where did the census ask whether people were nationalist or unionist?

  • Son of Strongbow

    “previous ambivalent and ambiguous role regarding democratic processes”.

    Jeez!

    That one should be chiselled in stone as the most weaselly description of terrorism, ever.

  • http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

    A UPC by any other name would sound the same, with apologies to William.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Delighted to agree with you Son of Strongbow, yes, Cyril was actually interested in Civil Rights, and, Trotsky slurs aside, was someone who wanted a community where all the old animosities were a thing of the past. Poor Cyril……

    And about the Trotsky thing, Mr_Joe, any “socialist” who could cope with my anarco-Neo-Jacobitism is hardly going to do very well in the Felix Dzerzhinsky awards!! And he was heading the N.I. Labour Party Young Socialists when I knew him, hardly classed with the Baader-Meinhof Red Army Faction……

    He had (and I hope still has, in Western Australia) a bubbling sense of the absurd, of the endemic silliness of much of what goes on in Irish politics (“the scary one”, really, FJH? “surely some mistake: ed”), something rare in a province of pompous grafting fools. Certainly he was a refreshing touch of sanity amid the “churchiness” of Mick Farrall and Eamonn McCann’s hard Marxist political humourlessness. Oh, such innocent days…..

  • Ulidian

    jeep55

    I don’t know how you’ve come up with that prediction. The new DEA consists of the old West and South ones, minus virtually all of the heavily Protestant areas. I don’t think there’s the slightest chance of 4 Unionists being elected there.

  • http://nwhyte.livejournal.com Nicholas Whyte

    In fairness to Faha his projection of 3 SDLP councillors for the new Castlereagh South should be understood as an interpretation of the 2011 result. But if he’s right, it does suggest that the SDLP have undernominated here, which may help others including SF.

    Having said that, the census of course reveals only community background, not voting intentions, and I suspect that Faha may have overestimated the SDLP’s support here as elsewhere.

  • Son of Strongbow

    Mr Joe,

    I’m not sure what a “UPC” is (Ulster Protestant C@@t perhaps?) but if you choose to advance the fiction that the Sinn Fein and the IRA linkage is “ambiguous” and “ambivalent” expect to be called out on it.

  • http://fitzjameshorselooksattheworld.wordpress.com/ fitzjameshorse1745

    Sean…yes “scary”.
    You have to remember in 1968, I was 16 years old and at school in West Belfast. I had gone thru O Levels that summer and started on A Levels (one was called EPS….Economics and Political Studies) and along with my classmates decided that I knew everything about Poilitics…..Danny the Red, Czech Spring, Bobby Kennedy, Marttin Luther King.
    We were the real revolutionary deal …carrying Bob Dylan LPs and everything.
    Many had older siblings at Queens and around it was the place to be.
    So there was a certain buzz seeing PD types around…or people who merely looked like they might be.
    Nick, Michael, Bernie, Kevin…..
    Posh, Ginger, Baby, Sporty.
    Cyril….Scary.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Ah, FJH, you were obviously not close enough to Cyril to relish his refreshing wit. As well as knowing him from Queens, Salisbury Street and the NI Labour YS, I used to sit beside him sometimes as he travelled back to Knock from his job at Newtownards Tech. He was very, very funny most of the time, and I remember his deadpan description of how he used Belfast experience on Vietnam demos to show “Tariq” how to send groups through the backstreets to avoid police street wide blocks. The marchers would simply file around them, re-form and continue the marches….

    Thank goodness no one tried that at Coalisland!

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Mister_joe, pity you did not get to know Cyril a bit better! We’d all been reading Marcuse, so most of us were aware that the Soviet Union was simply a mirror image of the Capitalist nightmare, (a debate over the narcissism of minor difference within two materialist world views) and that any solution needed a much more libertarian openness.

    We did meet some actual Soviet groupees from the CP headquarters on the Albert Bridge road, but no one took them at all seriously…….at least until the rum and coke appeared on Saturday nights……

  • http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

    SOS,

    My UPC comment wasn’t directed at you, who have been commenting here for years, even though we often disagree..

  • http://bangordub.wordpress.com/ Bangordub

    For those interested in how my interviewee Nuala Toman got on- in her own words:
    “Elect Nuala Toman Castlereagh South
    Thanks to everyone who came out and voted Sinn Féin we had a great poll in castlereagh! Sinn Féin were not off the board until the 11th stage. We were 75 first preference votes away fron gaining a seat, and polled higher than those who gained the last two seats. Sinn Féin abu”

  • Joe_Hoggs

    Do you feel your article helped her Bangordub?

  • carl marks

    Perhaps this will help put SOS’s stand on calling out politicians on their illegal past and their relationship to terror groups.
    During the recent anniversary of the UWC lockout when unionists brought terror and death to the streets of NI and forced a democratically elected government to fall many unionist politicians from the leading unionist party (including the FM) stood beside UDA and UVF leaders as they intimidated people from their workplaces, blocked roads and bullied the whole place, here is the only comment SOS made,
    Son of Strongbow (profile)

    22 May 2014 at 5:19 pm

    How did icthyophiles fair generally? Did fishmongers stay open?

    So historical Republican violence = condemnation and contempt for those who vote for republicans,
    And Historical Unionist violence = weird attempt at wit.

  • Son of Strongbow

    Oh Carl, have you not gone away you know?

    Was your j’accuse goodbye speech all a dream? You as Sydney Carton would be howling from the scaffold ‘ it’s a mistake, I’m no aristo’. You slam the door in a big hissy fit, and then squeeze back in again through the cat flap.

    The Dolphins are disappointed, that high pitched squeaking and trilling you hear is not tinnitus, it’s them calling to you to come along. Two of them, Didi and Gogo, promised me they’d wait for you no matter what. More fool them I say!

    And where have you left yourself to go here?

    So you’ve had a little bitch about me (a month late; did you hope we would have forgotten about your petulant bye bye by now?), just like the good old days, but you can’t now take the next step in your traditional route, calling my presence here a symptom of a partisan site, because that must lead you inexorably back to Hysterical Goodbye V2.0. :)

    Btw the laughter you hear is me having lots of fun at your expense. :) :) :) (expect much more to come)

  • carl marks

    SOS
    The health warnings on bottles of glue are there for a reason, please for the sake of your health read them.

  • Son of Strongbow

    Is that it Carl? Is that as good as you can do?

    Poor show I say. I can give you one point for creativity in not going for cider as the intoxicant of choice you imply I use, oh, and another point for your concern about my health. But overall it’s a ‘could do much better’ I’m afraid.

    ……. however, much as I’d enjoy continuing this it has been ‘suggested’ that I should leave it alone. I’ll therefore endeavour to resist the temptation to shoot fish in a barrel so to speak (there’s that fish theme again ;) ).

    So much as I could deal with a good talking to as far as you are concerned I bow out.

    Run free dear Carl, run free………

  • carl marks

    Throwing a tantrum is not the adult way to deal with people pointing out your double standards and I obviously touched a raw nerve which has caused you some distress.
    All I done was show how you react to unionist terror is very different to how you react to republican terror, now I know that having the truth pointed out to you causes you to get stressed.
    But let try to keep this grown up, please explain why you seem not to have a problem with the DUP putting up council candidates linked to the drug dealing/pimping/protection racket running terror group UPRG/UDA.
    So is everybody voting for the DUP (the largest PUL party) a supporter of the druggie party in the same way that everybody who votes for SF a supporter of the murder party.
    Surely a man with as wonderful an imagination as you can come up with an explanation for this seeing the mote in others eye and missing the beam in your own.

    Loved this bit by the way
    ……. however, much as I’d enjoy continuing this it has been ‘suggested’ that I should leave it alone.
    Who suggested it, Can other people see them, is it just voices or do you have visions as well?

  • Son of Strongbow

    The suggestion came from the ‘Give a Fool a Break Foundation’, a charity that looks after life’s underachievers.

    If you have evidence of elected DUP members, or those from any other unionist political party (and here I do not include gather-ups such as the PUP as it is as equally repellent as its mirror Sinn Fein) being “linked” (whatever that means, although it does seem to be a rather weak choice of word) with loyalist terrorists then I’m more than keen to condemn them.

    However, whereas I understand some nationalists compulsion to try to establish an equivalence between the DUP and SF (perversely so in the case of those who claim not to be SF voters) it is a hard argument to make stick.

    Should the leader of the DUP have announced prior to the recent elections that he would never “dissociate” himself from the UDA/UVF, or the party’s MEP candidate have been a convicted terrorist, or had the DUP been identified by the UK, Irish and US governments as being “inextricably” one and the same organisation as an identified terrorist group (to the extent that many persons in leadership roles within the party are also convicted terrorists), or had the DUP an extant ‘Army Council’ then I would be more than happy to regard the DUP in the same light as I do Sinn Fein.

    Now whilst not being a DUP, or for that matter a UUP voter, and, in common with the vast majority of unionists, I would not give the time of day to the PUP, I cannot judge the DUP to be on par with SF in the terrorism stakes.

    They are however in large parts a rather unattractive bunch with a crudely pointless fascination in supporting what are, to my mind at least, the baser instincts of the so-called Loyal Orders.

    However as I have already pointed out I don’t support any of their activities with my vote or, with particular reference to my last point, have any interest whatsoever in marching here, there or anywhere.

    Now Carl look what you’ve encouraged me to do! Here I am playing with you when just today I undertook not to. It’s looking like I’m mirroring you in my lack of resolve to do what I said I was going to do.

    My only defence from rightful rebuke is to point out that I didn’t row back from a big Broadway production goodbye in such an ignominious way as you did.

    Nevertheless, note to self, must try harder in the future.

  • carl marks

    SOS,
    Good post, if inaccurate, when I hear Peter explaining is role in ulster resistance, Clontribet, the UWC strike, third force etc. (all actions involving terrorists) and apologises for them , and not in the mealy mouthed way in which he apologised for his racist comments then I might consider your argument valid.
    But as it stands he has not done so, which of course makes him unrepentant (good DUP word for Shinners who won’t apologise). There is of course the minor matter of the manner in which the DUP consorts writhe the UPRG/UDA (which it is to be noticed you left out of your post) in council elections and the sharing of platforms with doth the PUP/UVF and the UPRG/UDA which unlike the Provo’s have not disbanded and are behind many of the racist attacks in Belfast and need I really list their criminal activities.
    The DUPs links to these groups does not seem to affect their popularity within the PUL community, of course if your argument is “It’s a matter of degree” then we can see that it is not a high principle since a principal would apply across the board, it would appear that instead of morality your stand is based on the level of linkage you feel acceptable too your political viewpoint.
    As for republicans rushing to SF defence read the threads on slugger and see how unionists close ranks whenever any other unionist is pulled up for something he/she says or does check out the ones on Pete’s “go to the shops thing” you yourself are the ruling lord of whataboutry.
    Finally I’m glad you have admitted that the “suggestion” was all in your head, this is a good start, and could I ask you a favour, could you explain the post about the fish in the UWC thread, I have looked at it several times and just don’t get it!