PSNI apply for more time to question Adams…

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Those who are certain this is going nowhere because ‘there’s no evidence’ should take note Ivor Bell is already on a charge…

  • Kensei

    Trickier for Adams you’d think though – if he is charged and no conviction is secured, you’d imagine there would be some serious blowback on the PSNI.

  • Newman

    Surely Bell was one of the Boston College interlocutors? That would make a significant difference

  • Politico68

    This is starting to get more serious now, how much time does it take to ask questions? Is it being drawn out to give the impression of a rigorous investigation? How long more can they hold him?

  • mac tire

    Mick, it’s going nowhere. Ivor Bell may well be on a charge.
    I’m sure you would not bet real money on a conviction.

  • redstar2011

    The irony for SF is amazing- they try to convince their community.

    1 policngs totally changed, no longer political

    2. policing boards are a guarentee that there will be no more murky dealings from the police

    And it all comes back to bite them in the ass.

  • Tir Chonaill Gael

    Not a chance Adams will face charges.

    A file to his chum at the PPS, perhaps, but that’s about it.

  • cynic2

    I shouldn’t get too excited. Legally I assume that the Police have to put to Gerry all the hours and hours and hours of tapes in which his former comrades finger him for mass murder and he either says “No comment” or “That man/ woman is a drunk / mentally ill/ opponent of the peace process”

    The problem is that there seem to be so many of them all telling the same story

    Now who knows ….. he might just confess, worn down by conscience and the weight of testimony from long gone friends …..but I suspect not”

  • JR

    “The problem is that there seem to be so many of them all telling the same story”

    That is one worrying apect. I have heard there were 25 tapes made and 11 of them refer specifically to this murder and to Gerry Adams. If this is true It seems a bit suspicious to me that of all the murders in the troubles this is the one they all chose to talk about. All anti peace process Republicans.

  • Tir Chonaill Gael

    ‘All anti peace process Republicans.’

    Does that make them wrong?

  • Mc Slaggart

    “PSNI apply for more time to question Adams…”

    I wonder who will make the first film of this little play?

    I wonder what they police hope/need to find out by asking for more time?

  • JR

    TCG,

    No it doesn’t. I am just saying Níl cíos ar caint.

  • DogInTheStreet

    From a purely forensic point of view, what possible evidence could there be other than ‘he said she said he said’ etc?

    A mountain of circumstantial evidence is not worth one single bit of gravel.

    Are there ballistics, DNA evidence, audio/visuals?

    Surely these would be needed to secure any conviction even if the McConvilles do name names? I’m no lawyer so excuse my lack of knowledge but two eye witnesses identify the same names/people, would that trump the need for the physical evidence that I give examples off above?

  • Charles_Gould

    Dog in the Street – I would have thought so.

  • Politico68

    I cant understand why the police are not acting on the evidence of the McConville Children, or are they? One of the daughters said she was going to give the names to the PSNI, Has that happened yet? Anybody know?

  • tacapall

    Politico one of her brothers actually shook Gerry Adams hand and told him all he wanted was for those who killed his mother to be brought to justice so obviously he doesn’t agree with his sister. At the same time I believe its totally repugnant to commission a mural of Gerry Adams claiming him to be a peacemaker, visionary and leader in the area where Jean McConville was abducted at this point in time.

  • son of sam

    Tacapall
    Good point about the mural.But then when did Sinn Fein in West Belfast ever worry about sensibilities ?

  • Pete Baker

    Mick

    UTV reporting that the police have been granted an extra 48 hours to question Gerry Adams.

    The delay may have been caused by Gerry’s notoriously poor recollection…

  • http://fitzjameshorselooksattheworld.wordpress.com/ fitzjameshorse1745

    I daresay that the mural will be removed.
    One of the tackiest things I have ever seen and all those celebrating the way the people of West Belfast reacted to the arrest….will be forced to back trackk.
    Sinn Fein will of course say that they have asked the “artists” not to proceed because of the insensitivity.

  • son of sam

    FJH
    So was this a spontaneous outburst of artistic expression with no input from Sinn Fein?!!

  • Dixie Elliott

    Marty toasts the British Queen, Republicans are seething, even their own lot are in turmoil. How will those voters in their own fiercely Nationalist areas react?

    Gerry presents himself to the PSNI for questioning, is of course arrested and martyrdom to the peace process is assured; complete with hastily painted mural…

    We’re back on the one road, Sharing the one load,
    We’re on the road to God knows where…

  • Charles_Gould

    That enormous visage of Gerry Adams makes me think of the poem Ozymandias, by Shelley:

    And on the pedestal these words appear:
    “My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
    Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
    Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
    Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
    The lone and level sands stretch far away.

  • DC

    There now follows a broadcast by Willie Frazer – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8CyI4QJOGo#t=80

  • http://dreamingarm.wordpress.com CW

    In response to McSlaggart’s question at 6:47 above:

    “I wonder who will make the first film of this little play?”

    The answer is the inimitable John McBlain:

  • http://fitzjameshorselooksattheworld.wordpress.com/ fitzjameshorse1745

    Son of Sam
    Apparently thousands of West Belfast people took to the streets with paintbrushes.
    No direction whatever from Sinn Fein.

  • Charles_Gould

    According to twitter SF are doing a media “launch” of the Gerry Adams mural tomorrow at 3pm.

    “Gerry Adams – visionary, leader, peacemaker.”

    I think they are making themselves figures of ridicule.

  • mrmrman

    Have to agree – if Bell charged why not Adams. Although as others have pointed out how can someone be prosecuted on the recorded testimony of two dead people.

    I am struck by the similarities between this police operation and operation yewtree. Investigation of historic crimes; his/her word against another’s; apparent over-zealousness from the police. I wonder how much this will stick to either Bell or Adams or will we see them walk free like a coronation street soap star.

  • Rapunsell

    Except max Clifford was just convicted and imprisoned as a result of yew tree

  • Charles_Gould

    And the DPP just said of Max Clifford “he thought he was untouchable” but “nobody is above the law”

  • Charles_Gould

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01yb5q7

    Highly-regarded former Police Ombudsman O’Loan believes that

    *It is appropriate to arrest Adams
    *McConville’s murder was sectarian

  • cynic2

    A mountain of circumstantial evidence is not worth one single bit of gravel.

    When you are caught standing over the body of someone you detest and who has been beaten to death. tell that to the Judge

  • http://nicentreright.wordpress.com/ Seymour Major

    How much of the evidence against Adams is admissible?
    The old rules against hearsay were reformed in 2003 but it would still be difficult for the prosecution to use recorded evidence unless the person who made the recording was dead.
    So how many dead IRA have pointed the finger at Adams?
    I am aware of 2 – Brendan Hughes and Dolores Price.
    That is corroboration and may amount to a case to answer but maybe not enough to risk a prosecution at this time. That leads me to wonder if they might decide to hold back on a murder charge until there are more IRA deaths.

  • Zig70

    A mountain of circumstantial evidence is enough to get you in court. I’m grossly fascinated, conscious of the terrible death this relates to and the many others. Maybe it’s part of a political game and any publicity is good, will play well in the elections. Just enough to roused the little green monsters. More likely its that the tory British government is still sees the Irish as the enemy and another case of Irish naivety, tripping themselves up. What a mistake. It’s a whopper. The disconnect between the activists and the republican ego’s is quite wide and always a difficult thing to control.

  • wild turkey

    ;We’re back on the one road, Sharing the one load,
    We’re on the road to God knows where…’

    Dixie

    The Adam’s of this polity, regardless of their political agenda or past behaviour, are coated and covered in Teflon. and don’t they know it.

    with this episode, as so many similar, we are on a road..to nowhere.

  • megatron

    I agree there are no certainties but it is hard to imagine what the evidence can be. There have been cases that DPP has authorised which looked a perplexing decision when evidence was presented in court so there is that.

    I actually think the political fallout in the south will be contained…people do realise this was 40 years ago. In the north things are more uncertain but I think the ship will sail on with a bit of extra moaning.

    In the long term I don’t see a bad outcome for SF. At this stage a charge with Gerry being replaced by Mary Lou might be a net positive and probably also a net positive if he is released without charge.

  • nilehenri

    international press is most definitely #TeamAdams. glad some still have the sense to see through this charade.

  • Kevsterino

    If I tossed every prediction of the political doom of Gerry A. into a waste basket, it would have to be a pretty damn big basket.

    This will play out in its own good time. In the meantime, I’m waiting to see what surprises the upcoming elections reveal.

    Who do you think will talk the most about Gerry A. during the campaign and why?

  • Politico68

    What people just don’t seem to understand is simply this. SF and the entire Republican family will stick together through all of this and come out smiling the other end, its just the way we are

  • Charles_Gould

    Important to put narrow or sectional interests to one side – what matters in these cases is justice for the victims.

  • http://www.oldfaith.wordpress.com truthfinder

    The PSNI have reported that another item must be added to the list of the disappeared – Gerry Adam’s IRA membership card and Gerry’s dignity!

  • FuturePhysicist

    There’s no evidence that there is or isn’t any evidence Mick, do you aspire to a society where convictions are made on speculative evidence particularly in respect to a woman killed due to speculative evidence. The gossip shop should stay away from this if they had any respect for McConville.

  • nilehenri

    CG ‘Important to put narrow or sectional interests to one side – what matters in these cases is justice for the victims.’
    the travers case was not about the victims.
    the aine adams case was not about the victims.
    the mcconville charade is not about the victims.
    subjective narrative, dangerous path.

  • redstar2011

    Nilehenri I think you’re on the money esp as we witnessed the disgraceful dismissal of the Ballymurphy Massacre case this very week

    However I do feel SF have only themselves to blame. They’re the ones who told their community the days of partisan political policing were over .

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Redstar

    I think some of yer keys stuck there, I’m sure you meant to say “disgraceful dismissal of the Ballymurphy Massacre case AND La Mons this very week”…

  • Charles_Gould

    These things must be about the victims.

    For too long, the victims have been brushed aside. I think its important to secure justice for them – for all of them.

  • http://WindowsIDHotmail danielsmoran

    McSlaggart [6.47] It’s four days in and the elephant in the room is still being ignored by the unionist press and tv and radio, the sham breakdown of Stormont over a non existent SF spying ring over a decade ago. This explains Marty’s threat to review support for police I don’t think he’s bluffing, Peter and Arlene, do you?

  • nilehenri

    red i don’t think it’s about apportioning blame (just yet). this is huge. the most potentially defining eu elections for decades are just about to take place and this man’s party was and still is poised to sweep the board much to the exasperation of the powers that be. our police service is a tool of the state? welcome to modern day europe.

    charles no matter how this particular episode plays out, and no matter which format (if any) a final ‘exoneration’ takes, what people must realise is that for any investigation to be worth it’s salt, the blinkers must come off, and ugly truths must be confronted.
    a simple freedom of information request could start the ball rolling. how many of our current serving mla are ex-service/personnel? during which periods? in which operations and in which capacity?

  • Son of Strongbow

    It would appear that the “Dark Side” has spread to the judiciary. How will Severus McGuinness, apparently the Shinner Defence Against the Dark Arts Master, contain this virulent contagion?

    I predict more furious waving of his little wand to conjure another spell of Securocratcrapicus.

  • Charles_Gould

    I hope that our peace process is entering a phase when more truth is demanded, and more truth given. The pressure must be kept up on all sides regardless of whether they are loyalist, republican or state.

    I have found the testimony of the victims to be compelling on this. We owe it to them. We must approach it without partisan bias – as difficult as that is.

    Somehow I think that the period of ambiguity and brushing under the carpet has served its time. A better foundation is possible.

  • nilehenri

    cg
    ‘she went on and on about “them provies, they wouldn’t have the balls to shoot me… I don’t care what I did”. I was saying to myself, “please don’t say any more”, but she went on and on – she convicted herself out of her own mouth.’
    bastion of impartiality the daily mail 02.05.14

  • megatron

    Truth and justice are overrated and unachievable anyway

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Hands up anyone who honestly thinks the arrest of himself will be detrimental to SF’s election results?

    I don’t, I think it’ll be a booster.

  • GEF

    I agree, the arrest won’t do SF any harm, but If Gerry is charged then this is what Marty believes will happen.

    Charging Gerry Adams with murder ‘will spark crisis in Ulster’

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/473780/Charging-Gerry-Adams-with-murder-will-spark-crisis-in-Northern-Ireland

  • Son of Strongbow

    Pretty predictable stuff from the Shinners: ‘leave us alone or the ‘peace process’ gets it’.

    As yet no picket vigil outside Antrim police station as was observed outside Police HQ in leafy Cherryvalley the last time a Shinner was scooped.

    Is Antrim too far to travel? Aren’t there any mural-friendly walls in the town?

  • Granni Trixie

    I’m surprised at no one brings up the question of pardons and letters of comfort …did Adams not think he needed to clarify his position at an earlier stage?

  • Charles_Gould

    I suppose Granni that he would not want it to be known that he thought he may need one?

  • Rapunsell

    Regardless of the outcome of the questioning of Gerry Adams – there are surely implications and consequences flowing from the Sinn Fein allegation of political policing ?

    If there is political policing – with the intent of damaging SF – where is the evidence – that isn’t in the form of – well Gerrys arrest is the evidence.

    If there is political policing then who in the police is directing it? Surely it would have to be the Chief Constable and/or other senior management – if it is – then SF support for and involvement in the policing structures is untenable – if it isn’t then the structures don’t work and their position is equally untenable.

    The allegation of political policing with a bias against and a conspiracy to do damage is extremely serious – has any complaint been made to the police ombudsman by SF or Gerry Adams? I haven’t heard that there has.

    I think the allegation is bullshit and that SF have overplayed their hand. Limited electoral damage both north and south but the real damage is the further erosion of trust and a consequent damage to our already ineffectual governance here in the north.

    It’s interesting that in contrast to her apparent effective skewering of governmental bad practice in the south – mary Lou McDonald appeared to be saying on rte weekend on 1 today that the police should be tempered in investigating criminal activity linked to politicians due to the potential to damage the electoral chances of said politicians – not SF above the law but politicians as a breed apart – breathtaking arrogance.

  • Red Lion

    AGhob,

    I dunno, Marty toasting her Queen may have caused slight numbers to decamp to republican splinter votes.

    And then, I remain hopeful towards younger people who never grew up with propaganda politics who will look at how SF are flexing muscle so close to Jean McConville’s home, who will listen to the Jean McConville story, who are sick of bullshit politics at Stormont, and will vote for the several alternate parties available. Perhaps not West Belfast, but maybe even slight numbers can make a difference and start a trend.

    Maybe the SF stonewalling machine/blame everyone but themselves will begin to bear less fruit.

    Or maybe SF will wriggle out of things like the Northern Bank, the McCartney murder, the ‘I left the IRA in ’72′, I never disassociated myself from the IRA etc, with no electoral consequences.

    Those who might have voted differently and been people of influence are heading for the nearest aeroplane, like yourself.

  • FuturePhysicist

    If there’s no substantial evidence on Gerry Adams, could this become another internment?

    Are republicans going to think twice about whether to vote Sinn Féin if that’s the case? As an SDLP man, I’d prefer the electorate to focus on the candidates none of which are Gerry Adams, so I see no immediate political capital for the SDLP from this, possibly a little for SF, but I hope the Shinners on this forum agree that this is a distraction from an election as much if not more than an attempt to steer an election.

    The three 26 county Sinn Féin MEP candidate selections are not connected to the IRA in their past, and the 6 county MEP candidate is unapologetic and honest about what she was up to in the IRA. Hopefully the Irish people North and South will focus on current issues in their possible role rather than an ongoing police enquiry that won’t have any coherent outcome before this election.

  • http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

    There are some people here who try to damn those who vote SF, calling them all sorts of names. That is very obscene and is an attempt to accuse those people who so do as somehow sub-human. I guess they don’t quite understand democracy. While I am not a supporter of certain SF leaders, anyone who votes for anyone entitled to stand as a candidate are simply exercising their democratic right. They are simply “normal” people who vote for whomsoever they think can best represent them.