Slugger O'Toole

Conversation, politics and stray insights

How’s that story holding up for you now dFM?

Fri 21 February 2014, 11:49am

More from the Vixens this morning, this time concerning Martin McGuinness’s status within the IRA post the 1974 date he gave in the Presidential election of 2011:

Screen Shot 2014-02-21 at 11.45.43

The extent to which I struggle to understand SF’s reasoning can be measured precisely in that odd decision to Martin a public leave date from the IRA. All it does is incentivise people to prove he didn’t…

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Comments (36)

  1. cynic2 (profile) says:

    Isnt it sad how a crowd of illiterate louts like this were able to hold us to ransom

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  2. Dec (profile) says:

    Mick

    Simple question: in the light of an actual document, as opposed to a transcription (complete with bolding), with a re-assuring note that someone from the site has seen ‘the original’, how seriously are we supposed to take this?

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  3. Mick Fealty (profile) says:

    About as serious as any denial to the contrary Dec, is how I would put it. I mean, I personally have no reason to doubt the bona fides of the blog…

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  4. I have no reason to doubt it either.
    And I daresay most people assumed it in 1998.
    We are deluding ourselves if this is a “shock.
    Did any previous silence or denial convince anyone.
    Not a single person in Mid Ulster will say “Im shocked”.

    The point is what is anyone going to do about it.
    Is any businessman, pollster, lobbyist, journalist, senior civil servant, academic ,politician from any other party or plain individual going to refuse an invite to a Ministerial “launch” or “conference” on….principle???
    We are ALL part of this.
    Its not “Themmuns up on the Hill” and “Us”
    We are ALL tainted and compromised.

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  5. Mick Fealty (profile) says:

    Did I express shock FJH? Merely surprise given that nailing down false quantified ‘facts’ about your own past is about as sensible as lying in your CV…

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  6. Not a single person in Mid Ulster will say “Im shocked”.

    Well perhaps they might in the Captain Renault sense.

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  7. We are the EMPLOYERS.
    They all wrote the CVs we wanted them…and arguably needed them to write.
    We are as much part of the lie as “they” (and there are a lot of them, not just in SF) are.
    And as much part of the lie in 2014 as we were 16 years ago.

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  8. babyface finlayson (profile) says:

    fitzjameshorse1745
    “We are ALL part of this.
    Its not “Themmuns up on the Hill” and “Us”
    We are ALL tainted and compromised.”
    That sounds suspiciously like letsgetalongerism to me.
    You’ll be organising a cross community conference next.
    Seminars to include;
    ‘I’ve got my mind right boss’
    ‘What we’ve got here is a failure to communicate’
    and,
    ‘How to eat 50 boiled eggs’

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  9. I left a Comment early this morning that has yet to be approved by the site moderators so I’ll repost here, Mick, if that is ok?

    Quote: “THAT WOULD LEAVE ME OF THE THINKING THAT THE SINNERS ARE GOING TO TRY AND SEPERATE THEMSELEVES FROM THE ARMY”

    Would Arthurs have referred to Sinn Féin as the “Sinners/Shinners” in 1995 and in such a third-hand way given the organisational relationship between the two wings of the movement at the time? It sounds more like the terminology that Arthurs and those opposed to the second ceasefire and Belfast Agreement would have employed post-1998?

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  10. Mick Fealty (profile) says:

    Sorry Seamus. Kids off school at the moment, so wasn’t around. Will sort it shortly.

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  11. wild turkey (profile) says:

    FJH

    1. “Is any businessman, pollster, lobbyist, journalist, senior civil servant, academic ,politician from any other party or plain individual going to refuse an invite to a Ministerial “launch” or “conference” on….principle???”
    Probably not. This is the manifestation of the ‘New Dispensation’. alright, fair enough, The Who singing Won’t Get Again is playing in the background

    2. “Its not “Themmuns up on the Hill” and “Us”” T’was ever thus

    3. “We are ALL tainted and compromised.” With genuine respect, I disagree.

    Those who colluded in perpetrating, then perpetuating the new dispensation , on whatever level or score, yeah, of course they are tainted. but your typical citizen on the ground, tainted? please elaborate and explain. i am genuinely curious re the rationale for your statement on being tainted.

    tainted? it all sounds a bit like original sin to me although many, if not most, citizens were force fed the apple, and a few refused to bite, it is the candy apple makers who should be squarely in your usually precise sights.

    mahalo

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  12. Sorry, Mick, I meant I left the Comment on the Vixens’ website under their original posting. They (?) have yet to moderate my Comment on their website though some rather OTT Comments were left well after mine and are visible.

    I’m not doubting the veracity of the extract they have published just raising some points. Though the fact that my query lingers in moderation hell while others are passed…

    Would never happen on Slugger! ;-)

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  13. socaire (profile) says:

    I don’t think that we are all tainted or compromised. An exception must surely be made for those who voted against the ‘Belfast Agreement’. It would be evidenced if the vote were to be re-run and the mind changers counted. And it ill behoves anybody on this blog to sneer at bad spelling or grammar from a poster or other source.

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  14. Mick Fealty (profile) says:

    Ah, it happens Seamus. They’ve pretty much gone from nought to sixty in very short order. I imagine they are still learning how to drive it properly…

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  15. sean treacy (profile) says:

    No matter about the”nought to sixty” ,no doubt you will be availing of their services and regurgitating their every utterance .My enemy’s enemy is my friend springs to mind.

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  16. Nevin (profile) says:

    “They’ve pretty much gone from nought to sixty in very short order”

    .. and ruffled some feathers.

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  17. Mick Fealty (profile) says:

    There’s a good piece on the murder of Anne Ogilvy I haven’t blogged, but I would thoroughly recommend.

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  18. Neil (profile) says:

    I imagine they are still learning how to drive it properly…

    Possibly. If I may posit an alternative though, who knows how many views they’ve had though one could assume it’s a factor of the 320 people who’ve tweeted it or shared it on facebook and of the four comments we have pippakins reblogging of it, one post regarding Marty ‘pubehead’ McG and referring to the poor PRM leadership and two calling liar, maybe, just maybe there’s a political axe to grind.

    3 comments made the cut, 2 one word critical posts and one man playing one (pube head, very good I like it). I personally despise MMG, have done for a long time, but I have to assume a shade of bias here, certainly censorship (ironically) seems to be doing OK over there.

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  19. Politico68 (profile) says:

    The problem here folks is one of public apathy. If the media or anyone else want to go after Martin because of the above, there needs to be at the very least a palpable public hunger for such. But, it appears that the good folk of the 6 counties are really just sick and tired of it all and don’t give a monkeys whether or not McGuinness, Adams or Pope Francis himself were up to their proverbials in the RA.
    The main concern for most people is how to clear the trash off the streets around twaddle and elsewhere. In my own view, even if you presented a tape recording of McGuinness addressing the army council as chief in command with sound affects proving Adams was preparing a AK47and Bairbre De Brun screaming ‘the bullets are in me bag lads’…. whatever, he would still top the poll in MU next AA election and go on to be First Minister of the North, which is most likely going to be the outcome.

    Thankfully, Unionism is still destroying itself from within while loyalists are the laughing stock of the world. Any move against McGuinness would bring Nats and Republicans out in a rash.

    Really, you’re wasting your time in my view.

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  20. vixens (profile) says:

    Apologies for the lack of moderation Seamus, we’ve been up to our eyeballs, and cant approve comments from a phone when away from a computer. Your post s up now.

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  21. Sinn Fein has two very different relationships.
    The first one is with the Voters….in Mid Ulster, West Belfast etc.
    They run the Advice Centres, canvas at elections, get the votes.

    If Martin McGuinness, Jenny McCann, Caitriona Ruane are canvassing in Cookstown, Andytown and Downpatrick…some might come out of their houses and shake their hands and get a selfie….and …vote on Election Day.
    They are the people who get the flak from the Great and the Good for voting for such “horrible” people.
    But theres really not much in for “ordinary people”….just seeing people they want to get elected into Stormont.
    Few ordinary voters in Cookstown, Andytown or Downpatrick will actually get invited to Stormont or some kinda local reception, attended by a Minister, MLA or whatever.

    Thats a smaller privileged few….businessmen, retailers, trade unionists, journalists, academics….who berate ordinary folks for voting SF but are happy enough for the photo opportunity or Martin! Paul and Caitriona accepting a friendship request on Facebook.

    Those berating Sinn Fein and their voters cannot be allowed the luxury of hypocrisy. The voters can certainly turn against SF.
    But so can the Great and the Good…refuse the invitations, stop “sucking up” to SF (or their partners in DUP),
    The ordinary SF is not on first name terms with Martin! Paul, Caitriona, Alex, Gerry and the rest.
    They aren’t the ones retweeting the wise words of SF politicians.

    Those that hang around the Cathedral Quarter and Lisburn road coffee shops and Stormont receptions …but collaborate with SF and DUP cannot escape their share of responsibility.
    Is anyone ever going to organise some kinda principled boycott of SF-DUP?
    No.
    Too much to lose?

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  22. Son of Strongbow (profile) says:

    It’s never surprising, but always illustrating, when the mindset of the average Shinner voter is described.

    Seemingly no concerns whatsoever that a ‘politician’ may have been involved in a leading role in a murder gang, they’ll still get the vote.

    However a bunch of yahoos sitting in a caravan, aka the “trash”, must be ‘cleared’ from the streets!

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  23. cynic2 (profile) says:

    “And it ill behoves anybody on this blog to sneer at bad spelling or grammar from a poster or other source.”

    Speak for yourself …. and they were illiterate scum. Just read the first text too at how they were conspiring to lie and feed false information to the courts. Great Republicans!!!

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  24. Mick Fealty (profile) says:

    Pol68,

    I don’t think too many of us care these days what Martin did in the war. It’s a reflection just of how little ground that the party has traversed that the subject never goes away.

    For now, you can always rely on the sectarian reflex to distract from that lack of progress. But I think you are kidding yourselves if you think unionism is in a state of collapse.

    The problem at hand is that post Martin’s statement to Saville and that hardening statement in the Presidential election, he’s permanently camped on the wrong side of the truth.

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  25. Son of Strongbow (profile) says:

    Of course the first tent one comes across in the camp on the wrong side of the truth is the one flying the ‘it was a war’ pendant.

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  26. Niall Noigiallach (profile) says:

    Well well. It appears that some of the male folk on slugger have a bit of a crush on the ladies over at vixen. “Hows that story holding up for you now dFM?”, my guess is that it’s holding up pretty well. I sometimes never know what to make of the “Exclusives” that are wheeled out like a prize on a game show, promising a bit of substance and actually delivering very little. I had never been on Vixen before until I followed the link above but in the comments section someone refers to McGuinness as “pube head”. At least Slugger has some rules around man playing and the like but when I read that, i don’t why I did, but I immediately thought of Friendster, MySpace, Bebo and all of the other failed tween social networking sites. The top right X was clicked and I’m actually wondering why I wasted five minutes of my life reading it.

    It’s difficult to know what to make of the attempted take downs of Adams and McGuinness in the blogosphere. Does anybody really think that there is ever going to be an earth shattering Pulitzer prize winning moment of shocking revelation that will kick start a series of twists and turns that will ultimately lead to either of them being forced to leave the political stage? No? Me neither.

    Who really cares if he was OC of Northern Command? What impact does it have on any of our lives or the future of this country? Will the above piece ever come under McGuinness’s radar? I doubt it will, here’s a fairly good dramatisation of the impact such pieces have at the upper echelons of the political environment:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFox3SRoVtw

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  27. sean treacy (profile) says:

    Niall,some time ago a breathless journalist “ambushed” Gerry with one of Micks “exclusives” .Gerry replied “Mick who?” and then “never heard of him”.Mick never got over this and has spent every waking hour since trying to bring Adams and his comrades down.What Mick doesn’t get is that it is quite feasible for international statesmen to be unaware of a blogger from north Down.When you are part of the guard of honour at Mandelas funeral or unveiling a monument in Havana,Micks jottings just might escape you!

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  28. sean,

    People cannot, and should not expect to be, free from criticism just because they are International Statesmen.

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  29. between the bridges (profile) says:

    DFM allegedly (sic) caught out lien, (shackin) and the reaction of some is ‘so what’, hmmm let’s see sf/ira are demanding ‘truth’ about many aspects of our shared past and yet some can’t see the feck hypocritical irony…

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  30. between the bridges (profile) says:

    International statesman, some people will believe anything if you say it enough…

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  31. btb,

    You do know that I was being sarcastic, I hope.

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  32. sean treacy (profile) says:

    Note the rush to curry favour with Mick !

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  33. Mick Fealty (profile) says:

    Don’t all rush at once now… ;-)

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  34. And then there are those who are simply curry coloured. :-)

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  35. Politico68 (profile) says:

    Mick, yes of course I could be quite wrong about the Future of Political Unionism but the omens are not good for the once great monolith. At the next election there will be six or seven Unionist parties fighting for seats, with an electorate of only around 600k it looks pretty messy to say the least. Moreover the fighting between them is relentless and pretty nasty at times which could seriously affect the transfers on the day. Add this to the fact that Unionist voters are in numerical decline – albeit slowly – but decline nonetheless. There is also the permanent negative presentation of Unionism fortifying the beliefs of many that a political culture and identity built on the principle of dislike and distrust of your neighbor can never hope to survive. In so much as Catholic Ireland had been replaced by a modern cosmopolitan society and accepted as irreversable, Unionism simply cannot seem to grasp the same nettle in respect to its collpsed position as ruler and dominated.
    Our tiny island is not unique in its habit of voting for those that are, appear to be or have been ogres of society. From the rise of SF in the early 1900s through the support of violent Unionist opposition to Home Rule right through the last century our people will openly or sneakily flock to the one singing our favorite tune. Paisleys Antrim hills stint and Robinsons dance with the red berets, David ervine et al along with Republican and nationalists unfavouables have received the support of their respective clans regardless. Maybe its a particular Irish phenomonan, or maybe its a universal, political behavioral norm but its part of our collective past and present, unlikely to change any time soon.

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  36. between the bridges (profile) says:

    Joe duly noted!

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