Slugger O'Toole

Conversation, politics and stray insights

Mandela billboard poster vandalised within days of its launch

Tue 10 December 2013, 10:42am

According to the Derry Journal a billboard featuring a photograph of the late Mr Mandela with Sinn Féin leaders Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams at the back of Free Derry Corner in the Bogside on Friday was vandalised at the weekend…

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Comments (89)

  1. Droch_Bhuachaill (profile) says:

    At the risk of stating the obvious I would imagine that the person to Mandela’s left is the reason the poster was vandalized rather than Madiba himself…

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  2. cynic2 (profile) says:

    But Gerry is a real vote winner isn’t he

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  3. Big Boss (profile) says:

    This Billboard was produced within hours of Mandela passiung away. Quite distrubing and sick to think that Sinn Fein have went out of thier way to have this prepared for his death in order to try and get votes out of it.

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  4. cynic2 (profile) says:

    Was the bit they pulled down a “Spot the one who was never a terrorist’ competition?”

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  5. Droch_Bhuachaill (profile) says:

    cynic2 (profile) 10 December 2013 at 11:07 am
    Was the bit they pulled down a “Spot the one who was never a terrorist’ competition?”

    That’s just it. Mandela admitted things. Gerry doesn’t and believes fully the Adams Dogma of Infallibility.

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  6. son of sam (profile) says:

    Given the location, one can hardly blame the unionist community for the vandalism .Although in theory it’s supposed to be a forum where worthwhile causes can be displayed and highlighted,in practice it appears to be controlled by Sinn Fein.Apparently there is allegedly a committee which adjudicates on applications from groups wishing to promote their events and views but its composition is unknown.Big Boss seems surprised at the cynicism of S F.Where has he been living over the decades?!

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  7. DoppiaVu (profile) says:

    Gerry

    Political Activist
    Freedom Fighter
    Political Prisoner
    President

    And a pic of Mandela in the background. You just couldn’t make this stuff up.

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  8. Harry Flashman (profile) says:

    Interesting point SoS, who actually owns Free Derry Corner? Anyone know?

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  9. Mainland Ulsterman (profile) says:

    Mandela also posed for photos with the Spice Girls … an endorsement by Mandiba for the Viva Forever album? Christ SF are crass

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  10. Scáth Shéamais (profile) says:

    According to the Derry Journal the billboard was unveiled on Friday, but Mandela only died on Thursday night.

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  11. Sp12 (profile) says:

    “Mandela also posed for photos with the Spice Girls … an endorsement by Mandiba for the Viva Forever album? Christ SF are crass”

    Did he tell the tell the Spice Girls to hang onto their microphones after disbanding?

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  12. Droch_Bhuachaill (profile) says:

    DoppiaVu (profile) 10 December 2013 at 11:49 am
    Gerry

    Political Activist
    Freedom Fighter
    Political Prisoner
    President

    And a pic of Mandela in the background. You just couldn’t make this stuff up.

    But but but Gerry was never in t’IRA so he wasn’t a freedom fighter ;)

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  13. Pete Baker (profile) says:

    MU

    Here’s the one they should have used.

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  14. cynic2 (profile) says:

    Aw come on Peter. They count use that one. Gerry wasn’t in it

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  15. cynic2 (profile) says:

    “the billboard was unveiled on Friday, but Mandela only died on Thursday night.”

    Clearly they just happened to have one to hand as they wouldn’t have acted like depraved publicity vampires having it done and ghoulishly waiting for the man to die so they could exploit his passing. Oh no

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  16. WilliamHouston (profile) says:

    I would say that someone thought it was a Poster for a Concert by the ‘Three Terrorists’

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  17. DoppiaVu (profile) says:

    Regrettably, I fear that “Tearing down the Mandela poster” is now likely join “Clontibret Invasion” and “Billy Wright on a stage” as oft-repeated proof that themmuns really are the bad guys

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  18. Reader (profile) says:

    According to the FDJ article, MLA Raymond McCartney said: “Sadly it has become a regular occurrence that Free Derry Wall and billboards on the back of it have become the target of small unrepresentative groups.”
    Does “small unrepresentative groups” decode to “Themmuns” or “Dissers”?

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  19. Tir Chonaill Gael (profile) says:

    ‘Dissers’.

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  20. foyle observer (profile) says:

    High probability it was the pro-apartheid community from the Fountain that came down over the hill during the night and vandalised it.

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  21. foyle observer (profile) says:

    And yes, i am being serious.

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  22. Tir Chonaill Gael (profile) says:

    Rubbish – this is the work of someone from within the Bog that can’t stand the sight of Gerry and Martin.

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  23. foyle observer (profile) says:

    Well, whoever and whatever their motive, it’s pathetic.

    What’s more pathetic is the usual Gerry bashing that ensued on this site.

    What a joke Slugger has become.

    Here’s a message for you all – Sinn Fein are NOT going away. They are running this Province, and that’s how it will stay. Like it or lump it.

    RIP Mandela.

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  24. Tir Chonaill Gael (profile) says:

    “this Province” – I don’t think SF would like to hear you use that sort of language.

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  25. foyle observer (profile) says:

    I don’t think they’d care, it’s a Province of Ireland.

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  26. babyface finlayson (profile) says:

    I haven’t seen the poster, but in my mind it is a bit like this

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  27. Reader (profile) says:

    foyle observer: I don’t think they’d care, it’s a Province of Ireland.
    So, in your opinion, SF are running the 9 counties of Ulster? How does that work in practice?
    By the way, I was surprised to see you challenging your local MLA’s analysis of the vandalism without taking steps to marshal your evidence; instead of just relying on your prejudices to generate a detailed narrative out of thin air.

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  28. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    Over the years various groups, political and non-political, wanting to use the back of Free Derry Corner have been told they had to book it and that there was a long waiting list.

    Those looking after Free Derry Corner claim to be non-aligned – but as was pointed out above – within hours of Mandela’s death the shinners had the poster up on the wall and there was wide-spread anger at not only the haste with which they exploited the death but by the fact they had no need to book nor queue.

    I’d say that outside of the shinners that no one actually gives a f*** about their poster being vandalised.

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  29. babyface finlayson (profile) says:

    Damn links. The image I have in mind is about 5 rows down.
    It should be obvious.

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  30. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    Mandela did 30 years in prison….

    McGuinness did only only 3 weeks in jail in the North for IRA membership, in 1976, and was released after the Public Prosecutor said that ‘he was instructed to withdraw the prosecution’.

    McGuinness claimed afterwards that “his release came as a complete surprise.”

    It did indeed as he was filmed by the BBC in May 1972 speaking on behalf of the IRA.

    McGuinness: “…But as far as the Provisional IRA is concerned in Derry and in Dublin the fight will go on until the four demands are met…by the British Government.”

    Interviewer: “So you’re going to continue the campaign?”

    McGuinness: “We will certainly yes…”

    See tape 02:00 mins in….

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6560000/newsid_6568900/6568929.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=1

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  31. Gopher (profile) says:

    SF seem to get more North Korean by the day, posters with a 50′s style message, how retro. Just wondering when the cult will have their May Day style parade, Phalanxes of diesel tankers and HiAce vans taking the salute from the walls I imagine.

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  32. sean treacy (profile) says:

    Dixie,you can prattle on”McGuinness this, Adams that” but history will record that Mandela and the ANC held both men in high regard and nothing you and your ilk say will ever change that.

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  33. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    History will record a lot more including allowing 6 men to die for an election result, the taking of a Mother and burying her, covering up paedophiles…Etc etc.

    Wise up sean the only thing keeping a lid on it for now is the so called peace process.

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  34. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    sean tell us this why do you think McGuinness, despite being surrounded by the many touts and the supergrasses, despite the BBC footage of him speaking on behalf of the IRA he only did 3 weeks on remand throughout the whole campaign? He wasn’t even interned.

    Even 3 weeks on remand for fecks sake, sure back then you spent months on remand before you got to court.

    As I said you lot can only dread whats coming next. I only have to wait.

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  35. sean treacy (profile) says:

    Don’t,pretend,DIXIE that you regard jail time as a measure of respect because you regard people who spent decades in prison with equal contempt.People who devoted their entire lives to the cause,people like Gerry Kelly ,Sean Lynch,Ian Milne ,Martina Anderson, Jennifer McCann.

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  36. son of sam (profile) says:

    foyle observer
    Given your apparent informed knowledge of who was likely to be responsible for the vandalism ,could you enlighten us as to the criteria for display of posters at Free Derry Corner and who ultimately controls the granting of permission for such displays.The buzz word in our society seems to be transparency yet there appears to be a strange reluctance to give the public details in this area.

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  37. The Raven (profile) says:

    Well…that escalated quickly…

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  38. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    You can avoid answering yet another question if you want sean but it goes to prove you lot are nothing but a cult. Here was one of the highest ranking members of PIRA yet the Brits never made any serious attempt at jailing him.

    It matters little how many years others did I’m asking you about Marty.

    By the way the South African people don’t seem to be too pleased with the ANC judging by the way they booed President, Jacob Zuma.

    Like the shinners the ANC have changed nothing.

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  39. foyle observer (profile) says:

    Son of Sam, what has the committee responsible for the upkeep of Free Derry Corner got to do with the fact that this billboard was vandalised?

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  40. son of sam (profile) says:

    foyle observer
    I note that you fail to clarify the questions posed.Other posters have adverted to the alacrity with which the billboard/poster was erected.It is surely reasonable to question the process by which the billboard/poster featuring Martin Mc Guinness ,Gerry Adams and Nelson Mandela was so speedily erected if there is allegedly a committee which considers such requests.Dixie Elliott(6 24pm) outlines the difficulties other groupings have faced.It is hard to avoid the conclusion that anything involving Sinn Fein has a higher esteem and priority .

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  41. sean treacy (profile) says:

    Dixie ,I see you now regard the ANC as a failure too.No doubt someone will now step forward in South Africa to save them too.And the dissos can send some of their experts over to advise these new keepers of the flame.Lessons will include how to steal prisoners dependents money from those welfare you claim to be so concerned about.Lessons in how to get your solicitor to name others in court in order to save your own skin.Lessons in how to pretend to be on hunger strike while downing mars bars by the boxful from the prison tuck shop!

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  42. This is getting nasty. Mick must be away.

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  43. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    Son of Sams likely saying what many others said having seen the poster going up within hours of Mandela’s death…

    According to the committee the wall has to be booked and that there is a waiting list.

    Yet seemingly some printer was pushed into a bit of overtime and up the poster went so that the next day there was Marty and Gerry with Nelson Mandela.

    It was as if someone had produced a giant holiday snap and stuck it up on the back of the wall.

    Perhaps they could put up one of those snaps of both posing with the Israeli Ambassador (when they were introduced as ‘The Northern Ireland Friends of Israel.’) at a later date after they book the wall of course…

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  44. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0PDoQ6so6dSFkUAo9GJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTIzbW04cWMzBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZANhNjdmYTA5ZWU2NzQwYjhmYTcyOTgwYzhiZTAwMmMwYgRncG9zAzg5BGl0A2Jpbmc-?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3DNorthern%2BIreland%2BFriends%2Bof%2BIsrael%26fr%3Dyessv%26fr2%3Dpiv-web%26spos%3D12%26nost%3D1%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D89&w=300&h=200&imgurl=nifriendsofisrael.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F07%2Fadams_mcooper03-ambassador-meets-sinn-fein.jpg%3Fw%3D300%26h%3D200&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnifriendsofisrael.wordpress.com%2Fboycott%2F&size=+7.7KB&name=Boycott+%C2%AB+%3Cb%3ENorthern+Ireland+Friends+of+Israel%3C%2Fb%3E&p=Northern+Ireland+Friends+of+Israel&oid=a67fa09ee6740b8fa72980c8be002c0b&fr2=piv-web&fr=yessv&tt=Boycott+%C2%AB+%3Cb%3ENorthern+Ireland+Friends+of+Israel%3C%2Fb%3E&b=61&ni=112&no=89&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11f2jn528&sigb=147onnqc8&sigi=138958kru&.crumb=J9WG9JxL2WG&fr=yessv

    http://nifriendsofisrael.wordpress.com/2013/11/01/northern-ireland-friends-of-israel-welcome-to-our-website/

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  45. theelk11 (profile) says:

    This is from the beard himself

    “Walter Sisulu, Cyril Ramaphosa, Thabo Mbeki, Cheryl Carolus and many other leaders of the ANC made us very welcome. However, for all in our group the highlight of our visit was the meeting with Madiba. He was self-effacing in his humour, relaxed and focused. As ever the British government, and sections of the British media, had made much about whether or not there would be a handshake, a photograph and so on. The Major government had lobbied hard for Mandela not to meet me. We shook hands in his office: “Ah, comrade Gerry,” he said. “I’ll not wash my hand for a week.”
    I heard him repeat this shite outside dublin castle as a response to Mandela’s death.
    The man is a walking talking train wreck

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  46. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    If the British were out to get him and his party why have they been pumping millions into it for years?

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  47. Harry Flashman (profile) says:

    “High probability it was the pro-apartheid community from the Fountain that came down over the hill during the night and vandalised it.”

    Aw jeepers that gave me a great laugh over me tea this morning, and he actually came back to say he was serious!

    Let us examine the facts shall we my dear Watson.

    In the Bogside there are hundreds of fit young people, many of them with access to weaponry and who have proven their willingness to use such weapons, who loathe Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness with every fibre of their being and who are utterly unafraid of expressing their hatred of these two men and the party they represent. These people regularly attack members of that party and their homes and at night are free to deface local monuments with their slogans and propaganda.

    The poster of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness erected by their party is located in the heart of the Bogside.

    In the Fountain on the other hand, some distance away, lives a tiny embattled community regularly under attack from the supporters of the aforementioned armed group in the Bogside. This small community has a handful of young people living among them and the entire community is surrounded by barbed wire and twenty-foot fences to protect them and they dread nightfall for the onset of violence against their homes that it brings.

    Two groups, which one of them is responsible for defacing the poster in the night?

    A two-pipe conundrum and no mistake my dear Watson.

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  48. looneygas (profile) says:

    Thanks Sluggers, this even better than the Rob Ford Show.

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  49. aquifer (profile) says:

    why have (the Brits) been pumping millions into (Sinn Fein) for years?

    The Brits had to out-compete the diesel laundering plants pumping guns and bombs into the laps of sectarian gangs.

    But seriously.

    Sinn Fein get funded like other political parties. The democratic and bloodless route to change was and remains open if you have a good idea and conviction.

    That route was not always open for Nelson Mandela.

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  50. derrydave (profile) says:

    Lol, that’s a great description of Derrys bogside and the Fountain Harry – has very little relationship with reality, but a great description nonetheless: The bogside with it’s legions of fit young men with access to weaponry, and the embattled few in the Fountain who live in fear of nightfall and the violence it brings to their doors Lol Would ye ever wise up Harry – it’s the stuff of fiction – almost like you’re writing about 2 places you’ve never been before !

    God know’s who vandalised the poster – probably some scumbag from the Bog, but it’s certainly a possibility that the attack emanated from the Fountain as the ‘fearful few’ who live up there have form for attacking Free Derry Wall (and other monuments / murals) in the past.

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  51. Sp12 (profile) says:

    “In the Fountain on the other hand, some distance away, lives a tiny embattled community regularly under attack from the supporters of the aforementioned armed group in the Bogside.”

    While I would stake a good few quid on the idea that it was Bogside ‘dissers’ rather than Fountain lads that did the tearing up, your description of the Fountain reads more like a Wullie Frazier funding pitch than anything that remotely resembles reality.

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  52. foyle observer (profile) says:

    Yes, enjoyed Harry’s description of two areas of my own city also. Definitely not from the city, our Harry.

    Harry, i said it was a high probability, i didn’t say it was definitely people from the fountain.

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  53. foyle observer (profile) says:

    Harry,

    Would just like to add, the Fountain is not ‘some distance away’, you make it sound like it’s a few miles away. It is literally a stone throw away from the Bogside. One grassy slope separates the two areas.

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  54. Harry Flashman (profile) says:

    I worked in and around the Bogside for twelve years, drove through it day and night. In all that time I never once, never once, saw any attack on the Bogside by the people of the Fountain, not one single time.

    In that time on countless occasions I saw crowds of wee gobshites pegging stones and paint bombs at the Fountain and Bishop Street buildings associated with the protestant community.

    You guys are absolutely delusional if you think there is some sort of “tit-for-tat” conflict going on between the Fountain and the Bogside.

    Delusional.

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  55. Paulk (profile) says:

    Lads no harm but this thread is embarrassing, someone vandalised a poster: a POSTER for Gods sake it happens everyday in every town in Northern Ireland. Does this mean that the dissidents have taken their campaign to a new level?? Does it spell the end for Sinn Fein?? No, someone (and it only takes one or two) who doesn’t like one of the three or maybe all three decided to wreck it, hell they might even have just wrecked it for the thrill of it.

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  56. Sp12 (profile) says:

    “You guys are absolutely delusional if you think there is some sort of “tit-for-tat” conflict going on between the Fountain and the Bogside.”

    Well of course we are, nothing like being told what’s going on by someone from half way round the world.

    Attacks run both ways at the fountain/bishop street interface, if they didn’t we would not have had a few lads from the fountain land themselves with criminal records this summer for dropping bricks onto passing taxis they marked out as ‘nationalist’
    Indeed, they have been attacks on elderly residents of the fountain by youths from the fountain for objecting to having their houses adorned with flags, are we to believe that the loyalist youths in the fountain are ok with attacking elderly protestant residents of the fountain but would draw the line at lobbing a few bricks over the peace wall?

    You are quite simply wrong Harry, the fountain residents concerned about the escalation of the trouble this last year would not have made a point of condemning ‘retaliatory violence’ from within their own community if you were right.

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  57. Harry Flashman (profile) says:

    Go have a look at Bishop Street, look at the paint bombs splattered all over the Mem Hall and Walker’s monument, then have a look at the pristine murals, Free Derry Wall and Bloody Sunday monument and tell me the people of the Fountain are going into the Bogside to attack Republican monuments.

    Look at the huge fucking peace wall surrounding the Fountain and the wire grilles on the windows of a community that has a handful of young people living there at most and tell me that somehow there’s an equal give-and-take of aggro between the Bog and the Fountain.

    Will you fer Chrissakes get a grip of yerselves? I might be living halfway around the world but I have a damn sight clearer vision of what’s happening in Derry than the Catholic sectarian cheerleaders posting nonsense here, the sort of clown who thinks the prods went down into the heart of the Bogside to deface a poster. Jesus wept, I ask you, there are some right eejits here.

    And by the way I had a concrete block dropped on my car as I drove through the Bogside, from the flyover, let me assure you it wasn’t Fountain people who did it, unless they’ve moved to Lecky Road and become Celtic supporters.

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  58. Sp12 (profile) says:

    yeah whatever Harry

    There’s no tit for tat violence at the interface, and the Fountain residents that condemned it are probably just some Republican group in disguise, clearly as residents of the area they wouldn’t know as much as our man in the far east.

    I never accused the fountain residents of defacing the poster, I clearly stated that I believed it to be the work of Bogside dissers, But that still doesn’t give you the right to claim that the interface violence at the fountain/bishop street is all one way when criminal convictions and fountain residents groups clearly and unambiguously state it is not.

    ffs, just man up and admit when you are wrong, you clearly have no idea what’s happening in Derry. The fountain and bogside lads have been winding each up with low level violence and ‘flag raiding’ for many years now. Take a look out for some Bogside Loyalist Youth (I kid you not) videos from the bebo days where they drive up as far as the Creggan to grab flags and assorted republican paraphernalia to burn on 11th night bonfires.

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  59. son of sam (profile) says:

    Paul k
    Agreed,the defacing of the poster is in itself a trivial incident.However the more serious aspect is the apparent degree of control that Sinn Fein has over areas of Derry and sections of the voluntary sector.The recent dispersal of monies from the Social Investment Fund ( aka the Slush Fund) to S F favoured projects does nothing to lessen cynicism .

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  60. foyle observer (profile) says:

    ”Paul k
    Agreed,the defacing of the poster is in itself a trivial incident.However the more serious aspect is the apparent degree of control that Sinn Fein has over areas of Derry and sections of the voluntary sector.The recent dispersal of monies from the Social Investment Fund ( aka the Slush Fund) to S F favoured projects does nothing to lessen cynicism”

    What a load of absolute RUBBISH.

    May i ask where you are from ‘Son of Sam’?

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  61. cynic2 (profile) says:

    If anyone in NI is pro-apartheid surely it must be SF.

    After all the OO cant walk down a road without a pass

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  62. foyle observer (profile) says:

    Cynic,

    The Orange Order are over. I’d quit whinging.

    Drumcree…that is all.

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  63. foyle observer (profile) says:

    ”If anyone in NI is pro-apartheid surely it must be SF”

    That’s comedy gold by the way.

    At least they aren’t denying homosexual people equal rights.

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  64. Reader (profile) says:

    foyle observer: At least they aren’t denying homosexual people equal rights.
    I didn’t know you cared; wasn’t it only a few weeks ago that you were including allegations of homosexual activity as part of your disparagement of loyalist prisoners?

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  65. foyle observer (profile) says:

    Reader,

    I said that Loyalist prisoners preferred to keep company of their boyfriends in prison compared to Republican prisoners, who did actually use their time in a disciplined manner i.e. studying. That is true. Nothing i said was homophobic.

    That was also months ago, not a few weeks ago.

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  66. son of sam (profile) says:

    foyle observer
    You seem to be flailing out in all directions and appear to over reactive to points made by myself and other posters.Perhaps you would explain why my comment is”a load of absolute rubbish.As a resident of Derry,I am aware that centres such as the Gasyard are effectively controlled by Sinn Fein.The Chair of the local steering group for the Social Investment Fund is a brother of local S F ML A ,Raymond Mc Cartney.From my reading of the recent Derry Journal article announcing the grants to various projects in the city,it appears to me that they are “coincidentally ” in areas where S F are predominant.I await your considered response.

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  67. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    This article from the Derry Journal proves just who controls the distribution of the Social Investment Fund in Nationalist areas of the city. Outside of Liam Gallagher from Derry Trades Council every person in both photos and being quoted are local shinners including Noel McCartney who heads it…

    http://www.derryjournal.com/news/local-news/funding-package-welcomed-across-city-1-5718095

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  68. Reader (profile) says:

    foyle observer: I said that Loyalist prisoners preferred to keep company of their boyfriends in prison compared to Republican prisoners, who did actually use their time in a disciplined manner i.e. studying. That is true.
    And you will be presenting the statistics on both claims any time now, will you?
    It’s not as though, with 24 hours in a day, it would be impossible to sustain a relationship and to study. For instance with full access to all of the distractions of freedom, I was also able to woo my eventual wife and complete a degree in a mere 3 years.
    As I recall it, though, in your specific post back then you didn’t mention education – it was more to the effect that while the loyalists were involved in sex and drugs (and rock-and-roll?); a specific republican was attracting favourable attention from Ayatollah Khomeini. That was never one of my ambitions, I admit.

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  69. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    Interesting piece from the dastardly dissident journalist Ed Moloney with some acute comparisons between the ANC and SF…

    “… Irish readers will remember Ramaphosa as being one of two international monitors called in to keep a watch on a number of IRA weapons dumps during the early days of decommissioning.

    I remember attending a Sinn Fein rally at the Ulster Hall not long after his appointment and it was clear from his performance that evening that his role was to assure the Provo grassroots that no sell out was on its way and that isolating IRA weapons in monitored dumps was essentially meaningless. How could it be otherwise? Cyril Ramaphosa was himself a revolutionary and would never collaborate in such an enterprise!

    In a critical sense Cyril Ramaphosa represents the failure of the ANC revolution to liberate the black masses from the real system of apartheid, that which was and still is based upon their economic exploitation. The truth about the ANC’s revolution is that it ended in a sordid bargain with the white rulers: South African blacks would get the right to vote and its leaders propelled into power but the ANC would leave the white economic establishment and its sources of wealth untouched.

    The result is a country in which the whites still enjoy enormous privilege and wealth while the blacks, although able to vote, still live in shanty towns.

    To be sure some black South Africans have risen to wealth and privilege thanks to the ANC and Mandela’s efforts. And Cyril Ramaphosa is their symbolic leader. Once a leader of the National Union of Mineworkers, Ramaphosa is now a successful businessman with a finger in half a dozen corporate pies. Forbes estimated his wealth at $700 million. Read his bio, it is hugely revealing….”

    “…The deal that ended apartheid can be seen as the West’s quintessential template for ending all such struggles: the former revolutionaries obtain political power for themselves while agreeing to leave the economic and, if appropriate, the political system largely untouched. It is arguable that in this context Sinn Fein’s infatuation with the ANC during the peace process was hardly a coincidence….”

    http://thebrokenelbow.com/2013/12/05/nelson-mandela-what-sort-of-south-africa-did-he-leave-behind/

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  70. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    John Pilger – Apartheid Did Not Die [1998]….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRlh2nUWrzs

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  71. sean treacy (profile) says:

    Ah ,yes if Ed said it then it must be true.Would this be the same Ed who had the brass neck to say that any handing over of the Boston tout tapes would be a catastrophe for the peace process,The peace process that he consistently opposed and the tapes that he and McIntyre compiled with the sole intention of destroying those who drove that process.

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  72. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    sean tracey could you tell us what is wrong about the article instead of rehashing nonsense as usual?

    For example what have SF changed in the North other than having replaced the SDLP as the toothless voice of nationalism and sitting in a government which has to adhere to the rules laid down by Westminster?

    Now I’ve grown tired of your ceaseless prattling about Mackers, Moloney and whatnot else so could you please tell us what have SF changed?

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  73. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    Sorry correction….sean tracey tell the readers of Slugger what is wrong in regards to Moloney’s article.

    Don’t bother with The Fly by Night in 1st Class politicians in Stormont…

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  74. Alias (profile) says:

    “The deal that ended apartheid can be seen as the West’s quintessential template for ending all such struggles: the former revolutionaries obtain political power for themselves while agreeing to leave the economic and, if appropriate, the political system largely untouched.”

    Very sharp observation from Moloney. Both the ANC and the Shinners were turned from advocating Marxism to promoting free market economics. The last part is particularly relevant to NI in that, while the ANC campaign ended in self-determination for black South Africans, PIRA’s campaign terminated with the Irish nation in Northern Ireland forfeiting its former claim to national self-determination and with the Irish State giving up its former claim to Her Majesty’s (undisputed) sovereign territory.

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  75. Barney (profile) says:

    Some spide destroyed a poster so the racist scum decide to launch a tirade against Mandela. The man was not a terrorist at any point in his life there was no other possible and credible route to equality available to the man.

    If the direct targeting of civilians makes one a terrorist then I look forward to the condemnations that will surely follow for almost all armed groups in the world. The British terror bombings during WW2 or the French assault in Algeria, the US bombing of Hiroshima or the carpet bombing in several SE Asian countries all count as either war crimes or terrorism. I dont see the same people condemning those armed groups is it cos he is black?

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  76. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    And Alias if the shinners still can’t deliver on a mere Irish Language Act and get themselves a Peace Center then what will the Unionists allow them besides the smaller share of the crumbs from Westminster?

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  77. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    Barney what is racist about stating the fact that the ANC have achieved nothing for their people?

    Would we be racist for attacking the likes of Obama as being the newly acceptable face of US Imperialism?

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  78. Barney (profile) says:

    What is racist is gloating that the ANC have not delivered a utopia.

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  79. mac tire (profile) says:

    @ Reader
    “Foyle observer: I said that Loyalist prisoners preferred to keep company of their boyfriends in prison compared to Republican prisoners, who did actually use their time in a disciplined manner i.e. studying. That is true.

    And you will be presenting the statistics on both claims any time now, will you?”

    Reader, it’s worse than that – you have no idea about these Loyalist prisoners. Didn’t you hear about it all since you are so clued up about what they have done/not done?

    You didn’t? So why ask for stats as if to prove Foyle is wrong and that you are looking to prove him wrong?

    Put simply – talking out of your hole on this one. Do you do this often?

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  80. cynic2 (profile) says:

    ” talking out of your hole on this one”

    “talking out of your HOMOPHOBIC hole on this one”

    First the Pass Laws for the OO and now this. You sound more Affrikaner ~1950) with every post

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  81. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    Barney said…

    “What is racist is gloating that the ANC have not delivered a utopia…”

    Firstly thats actually a silly comment Barney in that its accusing anyone who gives their opinion in regards to what has actually been achieved by a race of people as being racist.

    Is by the same logic anyone who states that SF have not delivered an Irish Language act never mind a 32 County Socialist Republic a sectarian bigot?

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  82. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    Barney said…

    “What is racist is gloating that the ANC have not delivered a utopia…”

    Firstly thats actually a silly comment Barney in that its accusing anyone who gives their opinion in regards to what has actually been achieved by a race of people as being racist.

    Is by the same logic any Protestant who states that SF have not delivered an Irish Language act never mind a 32 County Socialist Republic a sectarian bigot?

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  83. mac tire (profile) says:

    Cynic – happened on a regular basis – fact. Rape that is. Not people who designate themselves as GAY – Good As You, as you know.

    Now tell me, how did that young guy get on on Loyalist wings, yes, the one who was violated with a pool cue?

    On, yer not sure, do you need help? Want me to?

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  84. An awful lot of the people who used to be regulars on Slugger since the start, bloggers as well as commenters, have left. I seem to be one of the few left and I comment less and less frequently. Why is that? I think it has something to do with the quality of contributions and a somewhat inconsistent application of the ad hominem rule. Just a thought.

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  85. babyface finlayson (profile) says:

    Joe
    I think regular commenters eventually get fed up with the same old arguments and whataboutery.They move on and others pick up the baton to take on themmuns.
    I do miss the contributions of the likes of Pat McLarnon, Henry94 (who still shows up occasionally) Ingram (ding ding) Bob whatsisname and his ever entertaining statistics, and more recently Munsterview.
    We’ve still got Harry Flashman though.

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  86. Reader (profile) says:

    mac tire: Reader, it’s worse than that – you have no idea about these Loyalist prisoners. Didn’t you hear about it all since you are so clued up about what they have done/not done? You didn’t? So why ask for stats as if to prove Foyle is wrong and that you are looking to prove him wrong?
    I’m not sure where this rant came from – ‘foyle observer’ has failed to present any statistics, and now you have failed also, though he has gone silent and you have gone shouty. I suggest the following:
    No-one knows whether republican or loyalist prisoners were more likely to have homosexual encounters in prison, though ‘foyle observer’ has made a guess, and it sort of looks like you did too. Would you care to state your opinion clearly? And evidence, if you have any? In the absence of evidence, I have no reason to believe Sammy is any more or less likely to have a go than Sean after a year in the slammer. Or on day one, either.

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  87. Barnshee (profile) says:

    “foyle observer’ has failed to present any statistics, ”

    -I sent him off to get details of who benefited for Public sector payments/ support for the ” Foyle” and he probably still working on that one . (Might get round to you after that)

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  88. carl marks (profile) says:

    cynic2 (profile)

    11 December 2013 at 3:14 pm

    “If anyone in NI is pro-apartheid surely it must be SF.

    After all the OO cant walk down a road without a pass”

    Still you got to laugh, what with the links that loyalist have with the BNP, the OO refusal to let people join if they have any family links with Catholics, and of course that’s not forget that the UUP and DUP could not have been described as enemies of the old SA regime,.
    Remind me someone who stole British secret military tech and traded it to the racist regime in exchange for weapons, which minister (giving a rousing round of applause at the party conference) is a homophobe.
    But lets us forget all this and instead focus on the 5 or so parades where the OO refuses to talk to residents and marches with bands linked to sectarian murderers (have you seen the awful bigoted attitude of these people, there is a site called LADS check it out) and lets blame it on SF for its easier to blame the bogeyman than he bigots.

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  89. Barney (profile) says:

    Dixie Elliot wrote
    “Firstly thats actually a silly comment Barney in that its accusing anyone who gives their opinion in regards to what has actually been achieved by a race of people as being racist.”

    No its pointing out that attributing any achievement or lack there of to race is racist.

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