Slugger O'Toole

Conversation, politics and stray insights

After Liam Adams: “the very warped sense of loyalty that people had to different causes”

Wed 4 December 2013, 4:30pm

There was plenty of stuff to talk about on last night’s Spotlight Special, and we will be coming back to other parts of the programme. But this piece from Naomi Long was direct and to the point when invited to talk about Gerry Adams post the Liam Adams child rape trial:

I think what it does show is just how sordid things were in Northern Ireland, and not just in terms of what one community did to other community but the kind of injustices that were meted out within families and within communities during the Troubles, because of the very warped sense of loyalty that people had to different causes.

The fact that people didn’t feel they could engage with the police the fact that they didn’t feel that they could have recourse to justice, the fact that people opted to go to paramilitaries to seek resolution rather than go through the normal justice system and how justice was denied not just on the big-ticket sectarian issues that we focus on so much but actually on the core issues.

Things like child abuse things, like the abuse of young people. Those things were not given their prominence during the Troubles because everything was focused on something else. That’s an injustice. And that injustice will out too. That’s why walking away from our past isn’t a solution.

We are going to have to confront our past day with our past and not include everyone in this room on it includes Gerry Adams today and there will be no walking away from what he did what he knew and didn’t know. It will have to be acknowledged by everyone in the community what happened I we need to find ways than to try and heal the harm that has been done.

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Comments (31)

  1. Charles_Gould (profile) says:

    My present theory is that we now have a higher standard of truth in political life than was acceptable in 1994 and that is doing for Adams.

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  2. sean treacy (profile) says:

    Mick,sorry to disappoint you but I was talking to Gerry the other day and he still says he never heard of you.His exact words were Mick who?

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  3. babyface finlayson (profile) says:

    sean treacy
    Well if Gerry doesn’t know who Mick is I would be surprised as he is very clued in on who is who, as he demonstrated on Good Morning Ulster;
    “Karen I’m sure your readers, sorry your listeners, know who I am, and I certainly know who I am”.

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  4. socaire (profile) says:

    I think I heard her say that even now, a lot of constituency time is taken up with this type of problem and that people are still loath to involve the so-called authorities. And I spoke to Adams lately and he thinks he might have heard of Mick but it was a long time ago and he has forgotten now where he lives.

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  5. qwerty12345 (profile) says:

    Slugger is displaying Cairo Syndrome, its the delusion that those on the margins actually wield influence beyond their keyboards. It’s at epidemic levels in the west among those who affect the spirit of the (sadly deceased) Arab Spring.

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  6. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    sean tracey said…

    “Mick,sorry to disappoint you but I was talking to Gerry the other day and he still says he never heard of you.His exact words were Mick who?”

    Ah but Sean, sure Gerry didn’t remember that his brother Liam was living in his house for 6 weeks…

    ‘Questioned about this in court, Mr Adams replied: “Was he living with me? I have no recollection of him living with me for six weeks.” ‘

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  7. Mick Fealty (profile) says:

    Can I just that I’ve said nothing qwerty… I’m leaving the lurid fantasies about Slugger’s alleged influence to those who clearly prefer not to comment on the subject above…

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  8. sean treacy (profile) says:

    Im merely suggesting Mick that your Adams obsession is not having the desired effect

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  9. tacapall (profile) says:

    “The fact that people didn’t feel they could engage with the police the fact that they didn’t feel that they could have recourse to justice, the fact that people opted to go to paramilitaries to seek resolution rather than go through the normal justice system and how justice was denied not just on the big-ticket sectarian issues that we focus on so much but actually on the core issues.”

    Adams detractors keep sweeping under the carpet the fact that Aine Adams and her mother both attempted to report the abuse to the RUC only to find the RUC were only interested in Gerry Adams and attempting to turn Aine and her mother into infomers. An experience most nationalist who had the misfotune to find themselves in a RUC station learned quickly. The RUC and the British government knew about the abuse that was happening in Kincora yet they allowed it to happen for reasons of political leverage and why wouldn’t they have done so in this case. It beggers belief that this whole episode was hidden from the public spotlight for so long. If the RUC knew about the allegations that Gerry Adams brother was raping and abusing his daughter then so did certain unionist politicians.

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  10. socaire (profile) says:

    And when Áine Adams first reported her complaint to the RUC and then resiled because of their abysmal treatment of her, it was noted that the RUC did indeed RECORD the complaint and were able to re-open it again at a more suitable time. Who recorded it? Where was it recorded? And why did it lie untouched for 9 years?

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  11. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    tacapall said…

    “If the RUC knew about the allegations that Gerry Adams brother was raping and abusing his daughter then so did certain unionist politicians.”

    And in all likelihood so did the British government as we seen from Ed Moloney’s claim about Fr Reid and the Corporals, The De Silva report claims that Brian Nelson saved Gerry’s life and of course Gerry’s own admission that he was involved in peace processing at this time…

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  12. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    Mick I’m at a loss as to why my comment above about Gerry forgetting that Liam lived with him for 6 weeks is still waiting moderation given that it refers to the topic…

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  13. Ní Dhuibhir (profile) says:

    Good stuff from Naomi. Too often, we still talk as if ‘political’ violence is the only kind people here have been victims of. Building a society where domestic and sexual violence are punishable crimes is a mammoth task we’re only just beginning, and it’s doubtful whether political structures rooted in military and pseudo-military culture are up to the job.

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  14. Scáth Shéamais (profile) says:

    The fact that people didn’t feel they could engage with the police the fact that they didn’t feel that they could have recourse to justice, the fact that people opted to go to paramilitaries to seek resolution rather than go through the normal justice system

    I’m not exactly sure what Naomi’s getting at here. If the IRA had shot Liam Adams then it might be understandable, but she seems to be engaging in a general condemnation of the many, many people who had zero trust in the RUC or the justice system – and not without good reason.

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  15. Mick Fealty (profile) says:

    The good reason being in the title of the post SS?

    The fact we have no means (or is it will?) within the current processing rounds to clean out an Augean stable of unregarded filth built up over twenty five years (plus 15) is a contemporary rather than an historic problem.

    Where I, if churlish enough to do so, might fault Naomi is the absence of any suggestion of concrete means to tackle the problem.

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  16. Mickhall (profile) says:

    “We are going to have to confront our past ”

    Mick

    Why? If you or any politicians come to that were serious about confronting the past, would you not first demand the British government confronts its own past, not only about their despicable and murderous behaviour within Ireland, but also throughout much of the world.

    You do not demand this because you now it would be ridiculous as the British government is incapable of telling the truth about the sculduggery they got up to last year, let alone down the ages.

    Yet you demand of republicans [and loyalist para-militarys] something you do not demand of those who govern over us,
    which ever part of the UK we might live in. Tell me who has the greater responsibility, people you nice middle class folk regarded as little more than Belfast corner boys, or the British government?

    When I believed there was a slight chance of an international commission of inquiry and reconciliation being set up I supported it, but not any more, today any thought of justice, learning from the past, the causes of the conflict, the bitter hurt, are no longer on the agenda. It all echoes of strange fruit.

    If Gerry Adams were to admit he was in the IRA and he ordered certain acts, will the former British army chief of staffs and their political masters do the same. After all the likes of the FRU did not establish itself did it. Perhaps they should toss a coin to see who goes first.

    Of course not, to even suggest it would be….well…ridiculous.

    “Here is fruit for the crows to pluck,
    For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck,
    For the sun to rot, for the trees to drop,
    Here is a strange and bitter crop.”

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  17. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    Interesting indeed…

    http://thebrokenelbow.com/2013/12/04/two-unconnected-stories-worth-watching-closely/

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  18. fordprefect (profile) says:

    Sean Treacy
    I was talking to Adams the other day, and I said, Hiya Gerry, and he said, Gerry who? I’m not Gerry, I didn’t do it, etc. etc. etc. No matter what pressure is brought to bear on Adams, he will not step down before 2016. He’ll want to be at the forefront of the centenary commemorations of the 1916 Rising, telling all the sheep that baaaaaaaaa and cheer and whoop for him how far along the road to a united Ireland he has taken them. He’ll step down later that year (and make sure it’s someone he’s picked that will take his place). I’ve taken a few bets with my mates that, that’s what will happen.

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  19. IrelandNorth (profile) says:

    John O’Dowd is right about political parties in the 26 counties exploiting the Adams’ family trauma for naked political gane, which exposes the bankruptcy of their own generic ideology of Mé Féinism which in turn bankrupted the Republic. When one sees the leader of the main opposition party constantly and consistently attacking other oppositions parties instead of Government policy, fears that opposition politics in the 26 counties going back to its breach birth confirm ones worst suspicions that it never was anything other than affectation.

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  20. sean treacy (profile) says:

    I see Dixies Guru Anthony McIntyre being quoted approvingly by no less than Eoghan Harris today Must be a case of “my enemys enemy is my friend.

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  21. tacapall (profile) says:

    Whats Anthony McIntyre got to do with this thread ?

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  22. sean treacy (profile) says:

    Anthony ,Dixie, Prefect ,Mick,Harris et al are on anti Adams crusade and continuously cross reference their aricles to boost their joint enterprise.Dixie couldn’t spit on this site without quoting McIntyres “Pensive Quill” and I find it ironic that Republican haters like Harris find the Dissos so useful.So that Mr tacapall is why Mcintyre has got EVERYTHING to do with this thread.

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  23. fordprefect (profile) says:

    Sean Treacy
    I don’t know Dixie or Anthony McIntyre or Harris or Mick, and I am most certainly not what you term a “disso”. If what you mean by “disso” is that I have a mind of my own (unlike you) then so be it. If what you mean by “disso” is that I question the lies and underhand methods used by Adams and co. (unlike you) to fool people into thinking they were fighting for a return to Stormont, so be it. You and your beloved leader are more in tune with the despicable Eoghan Harris than I have ever been, seeing as Adams is one of the biggest revisionists in living memory. Better still, people could refer to you and your ilk as what you call “dissos” , seeing as you and your ilk have flung in the bin anything remotely resembling Republicanism or Socialism or both when it comes to SF.

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  24. sean treacy (profile) says:

    Prefect ,”the despicable Harris ” and all the other revisionist republican haters adore you and your ilk and hang onto your every word to use as ammunition in their anti SF CRUSADE. Thing is these people do not think SF sold out at all.They are terrified that people they vilified for decades might have some say in Irelands future and are delighted to have “useful”idiots “like yourself to assist them.

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  25. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    sean tracey I asked you about the SF spokesperson Mark McLernon and his sneaky phone calls to the Sunday World and you didn’t reply. I put it to you about Marty and the Queen… Marty and Prince Philip… About Marty and others attending the Tory Party Conference and you didn’t reply…

    OK then what about Adams reporting Aine’s family to a social worker in regards to nit and a unhygienic house instead of ensuring his brother never got the chance to abuse or rape another child.

    Do you honestly think I, Mackers or anyone else cares what someone – who hasn’t the guts to use his own name while supporting the likes of Adams – thinks about us? At least we don’t sneak like McLernon nor hide under silly online names, we use our own and go in front of the cameras.

    The problem with Adamsites is that they are looking over their shoulders wondering what is coming next while we need only wait and see.

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  26. sean treacy (profile) says:

    Dixie,I have to admit that you are very brave posting under “your own” but talking about silly names ,I doubt that you were christened”Dixie”.! However it is relatively easy to spout your type of politics from what is possibly the safest place in Ireland to do so.Those who live or work in areas where public support for even the mildest version of Republicanism could have severe repercussions for you or your family have a more difficult choice to make.We all cant spend our days surrounded by the Derry equivalent of the Tooting Popular Front reassuring each other about our unwavering staunchness. I have been in bars in my time where these sorts of people can be seen ,haunched round a table ,thinking they are impressing people while everyone else laughs at them behind their backs and get on with their lives in the real world

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  27. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    Ah sure it matters little whether I’m Dixie or Thomas Elliott, I’m more commonly known by Dixie.

    I couldn’t care less either what anyone does behind the backs of the bar room Republicans, in fact didn’t over 5,000 pass the Felons Club playing ‘Take it down from the Mask’ to those haunched over that bar?

    But that aside if your ramble gets you past answering the above then walk on by as the song goes Sean.

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  28. sean treacy (profile) says:

    Dixie ,despite the free advertising given by the Irish News ,twas far from 5000 marched past the Felons .From what I hear less than half that number turned up and even then the numbers were swelled by not a few well tanked local hoods.Best laugh is that quite a few of the “take it down from the mast ” shouters have since sneaked into the felons to avail of its facilities,hoping nobody would notice.! Finally when my father sung it ,the words were “take it down from the MAST not the MASK!. But then he was a republican when you and yours were probably running round Derry “with the Hib sashes trippin ye” – a phrase he used with relish throughout his life.

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  29. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    Oh right Sean and to take a quote from The Quiet Man… So the Irish News are in this too. Huh?

    Thats a goodin’ the old Irish News are upping the numbers? What a shower of dissident journalists eh?

    But lets not let a typing error get in the way of the fact that you still canny answer Sean.

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  30. sean treacy (profile) says:

    They reported that 5k were “due to take part in a”massive parade” on more than one occasion but strangely were a bit coy about ACTUAL NUMBERS the day after the “massive ” march took place.”You still CANNY answer” Are you addressing me in Ulster Scots next! ?

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  31. Dixie Elliott (profile) says:

    sean lets face it, you can’t nor canny defend Adams can you no matter how hard you try and hide it?

    SF is full of people like you. Most are funded by the Brits.

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