Slugger O'Toole

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The PSNI have lost any moral authority to intervene to clear roads of protestors in advance of contentious loyalist parades through sectarian interfaces. Discuss.

Fri 22 February 2013, 1:48pm

The PSNI have lost any moral authority to intervene to clear roads of protestors in advance of contentious loyalist parades through sectarian interfaces. Discuss.

We’re running at a rate of way less than 1 protestor charged per illegal road blockade to date- indeed, were the PSNI operating at the 2010 Ardoyne rate, there’d be thousands in the dock by now.

Given the paucity of charges to date brought against those engaged in illegal road blockades, the PSNI will correctly be slammed within nationalist circles if they subsequently arrest and charge more than a couple of those seeking to protest and thwart the intentions of the Loyal Orders by illegally blocking roads- never mind even attempt to remove them from the roads.

Whilst the political leadership of unionism has abdicated its responsibility to lead by shamefully indulging and acquiescing in the parading and subsequent flag furore folly of the past eight months, Matt Baggott has failed woefully when presented with the golden opportunity to enhance the reputation of the police as a non-partisan service in northern Irish society for the first time since the inception of the state.

We’re heading for a real messy summer.

Your views?

 

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Comments (196)

  1. sonofstrongbow (profile) says:

    Nationalists are talking themselves into a frenzy about the cops failure to beat enough Prods over the head. All the old anti-police hyperbole is being brought out and dusted down to attack the PSNI.

    Stoking the flames and raising tension prior to the marching season with the less than subtle implied threats towards the police should they dare to touch one hair on wee Sean the petrol bomber’s head during the Ardoyne Traditional Riot.

    Sadly it seems that for some within the nationalist community the short dalliance with support for the police is at an end.

    The saliva-flecked rants against the police are sometimes accompanied by the ’100% against violence’ hypocritical caveat, whilst all the time knowing how those within the nationalist community with access to weaponry will use the ‘criticism’, couched as much if it is in such intemperate language.

    Perhaps those police officers living in nationalist areas are already feeling the chill. No doubt they are giving a lot more attention to the estate agents’ websites than they would have done a few months back.

    What do you think?
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  2. FDM (profile) black spot says:

    The PSNI failed to enforce the law.

    That is their fault not mine.

    They effectively handed dissident elements a lifeline as they have been proved right when they say that the police force remains partisan, demonstrably so.

    Perhaps rather than scanning the estate agents many honourable police officers are scouring the situations vacant adds because they have been lied to. Some of them I am sure took the following to heart

    “I hereby do solemnly and sincerely and truly declare and affirm that I will faithfully discharge the duries of the office of constable, with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality, upholding fundamental human rights and according equal respect to all individuals and their traditions and beliefs; and that while I continue to hold the said office I will to the best of my skill and knowledge discharge all the duties thereof according to law”

    Fairness?

    Impartiality?

    Equal respect?

    Equal respect to all individuals and their traditions?

    and most importantly…

    Discharge ALL the DUTIES thereof according to LAW.

    Coffin-nail that last one.

    If we comment upon what we envisage, that is in no way a threat. I believe there will be siginificant violence on our streets in the summer months DIRECTLY BECAUSE the PSNI failed to enforce the law over the last 3-4 months. The horse has bolted. The damage has been done. Nothing I can say now is going to change history or what comes next.

    Nor different to your inference can I somehow from this keyboard save us all from the black days ahead.

    What you really should be doing is directing your invective where it really belongs. Thats the DUP, the UUP and the PSNI who like the three stooges have been playing with matches in a firework factory.

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  3. Ulster Press Centre (profile) black spot says:

    Translation: “The prods made us kill them. We had no other choice.”

    Where have we heard that before?

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  4. Ulster Press Centre (profile) black spot says:

    Those salivating at the thought of a renewed IRA terrorist/ethnic cleansing campaign against Ulster’s protestants would do well to remember things have changed massively over the past couple of decades.

    There would be no UDR and RUC to tempt Unionists who want to counter IRA catholic fundamentalist terrorism in a lawful way. During the Troubles many young men will have thought long and hard about getting involved in the counter-terrorist groups (UVF, UFF & RHC) but opted for the lawful forces of the state – especially in areas outside of Belfast. History has shown us that many were allowed to die to protect IRA informers or through gross negligence and a lack of support from the British government.

    There is no longer a UDR option and I doubt many Unionists would feel safe in a police force increasingly dancing to a Sinn Fein/Irish government tune.

    Where else would these young men go to defend their friends, neighbours, community and nationality??

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  5. Kevsterino (profile) says:

    Nobody knows for sure what the 2013 edition of “Marching Season” will be like. But one thing I’ve noticed has only recently popped up is what if there is a conflict between an Orange procession or event and a flock of flag floggers? I mean, in the summertime with thousands of processions in such a small area, something is going to have to give, isn’t it?

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  6. tacapall (profile) says:

    Where else would these young men go to defend their friends, neighbours, community and nationality?

    Just stay in the bars or drinking dens where they usually sit and fill young minds full of bullshit about the good old days when they worked for RUC special branch setting up their friends for murder or imprisonment.

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  7. FDM (profile) black spot says:

    @Ulster Press Centre

    Where else would these young men go to defend their friends, neighbours, community and nationality?

    —————————————————————–

    Is this the new grouping of ulster resistance?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJQp-q1Y1s

    Or potentially these dangerous elements?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol5Dfs7jqFI

    It is hard to take you seriously when you have got to remember that loyalist terrorists managed to killed more loyalist terrorists than IRA&INLA members in their last campaign. Thats despite being given 85% of their intelligence from probably the best and most sophisticated intelligence gathering country in the world AND being armed by them AND being shielded by the police and criminal justice system.

    You guys rock!

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  8. Gopher (profile) says:

    All questions about the legitimacy of the state moral, legal or otherwise, real or imagined and who should govern the state were settled with GFA and are now null and void with regards any argument in the present.

    So to stay on topic these nationalist protestors that are going to die do they constitute a Casus Belli?

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  9. Submariner (profile) says:

    During the Troubles many young men will have thought long and hard about getting involved in the counter-terrorist groups (UVF, UFF & RHC)

    UPC there is no such thing as a counter terrorist group.There is no difference between the IRA and the Loyalist alphabet soup of terrorists other than exists in your warped mind.

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  10. FDM (profile) black spot says:

    “Gopher

    All questions about the legitimacy of the state moral, legal or otherwise, real or imagined and who should govern the state were settled with GFA and are now null and void with regards any argument in the present.

    ————————————

    A protestant nationalist misconception, deliberately fed to them by leaders who still can’t bring themselves to explain the reality of their situation to this day. Hence the mass hysteria on the streets. The GFA was just another stop along the route, not a terminus.

    If protestors die or are even seriously injured then things could get very sticky indeed. With Marty at the wheel I think a) we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in in the first place and b) we would manage to get over the shock without descending into the abyss. However with leadership like Robinson?

    But your teminology is surely awry? Casus Belli refers to actions against a nation. Which nation would that be?

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  11. Gopher (profile) says:

    Figure of speech really, reading too much 19 century history at the minute so my apologies if you were not getting my true meaning

    Nope the GFA agreement decided how we will be governed until the people decide to change it. Until that day all the other stuff is just null and void. so back on topic.

    So it’s “if” a protestor is killed you were speaking with a degree of certainty earlier I thought predestination had some substance to it for a minute. I thought their was operational freedom and oversight of the policing board rather than Peter or Marty calling the shots? is that not true? Will Marty control the police if he is first minister?

    What if dissidents kill another Protestant? Would that be an excuse to return to conflict? What if the police can’t hold the line between two groups of protesters and people die, should we return to the troubles? Maybe there will not be any police around when people decide to get ugly? Depending on the core of course should we go back to conflict then?

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  12. SK (profile) says:

    Why are continuing to respond to this UPC tool?

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  13. galloglaigh (profile) says:

    Been thinking that for weeks. I pity Ulster when Jamie’s her last line of defence.

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  14. FDM (profile) black spot says:

    @Gopher (profile)

    “Nope the GFA agreement decided how we will be governed until the people decide to change it. Until that day all the other stuff is just null and void. so back on topic.”

    I hate labouring this but exactly. There is a mecahism built in to change the structure. An evolution clause you might call it.

    “So it’s “if” a protestor is killed you were speaking with a degree of certainty earlier I thought predestination had some substance to it for a minute. I thought their was operational freedom and oversight of the policing board rather than Peter or Marty calling the shots? is that not true? Will Marty control the police if he is first minister? ”

    I think there has clearly been an either significant “don’t you beat any protestants” from Peter or Baggott is the worlds largest wimp who forgot he was supposed to be the top policeman in the region.

    “What if dissidents kill another Protestant? Would that be an excuse to return to conflict?”

    Lots of questions. Most of us don’t want dissidents killing anyone. Most of us do want the police to uphold the law. Dissidents won’t destabilise a consensus majority with their actions as the majority will stand against it. However they could destabilise a fractured majority, fractured because faith in one of the pillars of the GFA has been shown to be a sham, i.e. the creation of a police force for all.

    “What if the police can’t hold the line between two groups of protesters and people die, should we return to the troubles?” We have 4 times as many police officers in this region compared to an equivalent population area in the rest of the UK. How many more do you need?

    “Maybe there will not be any police around when people decide to get ugly?” Happens 10 times a day. No-one will blink an eyelid. What is under the microscope is the behaviour of the PSNI.

    “Depending on the core of course should we go back to conflict then?”

    Nah lost me there.

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  15. FDM (profile) black spot says:

    I like the work mecahism. Mechanism is better though.

    Win is a better word than fail…

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  16. Gopher (profile) says:

    Is there some other clause than consent?

    So you believe Marty and SF have been completely cut out of the policing loop by Baggott and Robinson and you believe if Marty was FM he could have got the Police to have been more aggressive?

    Sorry about the questions it’s just you were so sure a policeman was going to kill a nationalist protester but then would and when became might so I was just seeing if you consider any other scenarios or outcomes.

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  17. FDM (profile) black spot says:

    @Gopher

    “So you believe Marty and SF have been completely cut out of the policing loop by Baggott and Robinson and you believe if Marty was FM he could have got the Police to have been more aggressive?”

    Except for lighting the initial fuse Robo has done nought except look like a myopic prevaricating fool. Whereas Marty at least tried to get the situation sorted by offering to stand with him and offer a way out.

    If you have ever read anything about disasters in military campaigns usually its when the generals have been “rabbits in the headlights” and have done bugger-all [except abdicate responsibility to their subordinates] is when things really go wrong. For instance Raglan in the Crimea, Percival at Singapore, Buller in the Boer war etc… Baggott is basically the head of paramilitary force. He also prevaricated, was irresolute and non-committal in everything he did. Perhaps strong assurrance and support from Marty at the top might just have influenced Baggott [maybe thats all he needed] to act decisively. The fact that Robo refused to commit to any actions, against the demos one day, for it the next, this may have fractured Baggotts confidence to act. Simple as that.

    “Sorry about the questions it’s just you were so sure a policeman was going to kill a nationalist protester but then would and when became might so I was just seeing if you consider any other scenarios or outcomes.”

    I’m not a stargazer, but regrettably I do believe that yes someone will not make it through the street violence. Since the police are heavily protected and will be carrying the greater number of weapons, then the odds are on a protestor. Guess who won’t be punching the air when it happens. The fleg protests have been a disaster for the PSNI and the rest of us are in the mixer because of it.

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  18. Comrade Stalin (profile) says:

    The UVF and UDA are nothing other than a venue for young men who wish to engage in drug dealing, racketeering, intimidation and general criminality. The idea that the police were an “alternative” outlet for people who wanted to join those criminal gangs doesn’t seem very complimentary.

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  19. Ulster Press Centre (profile) black spot says:

    Comrade Stalin: The UVF and UDA are nothing other than a venue for young men who wish to engage in drug dealing, racketeering, intimidation and general criminality. The idea that the police were an “alternative” outlet for people who wanted to join those criminal gangs doesn’t seem very complimentary.

    They did seem to have time to take out scores of IRA/INLA/Sinn Fein and other terrorists though:

    http://www.politics.ie/forum/northern-ireland/135549-loyalist-paramilitaries-their-legitimate-targets.html

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  20. DC (profile) says:

    UPC

    The ‘strategic’ to sectarian ratio might be of concern to some, probably even to aged ex-combatants today.

    1:6?

    The IRA’s campaign used war language that turned killing into a bit of an abstract war game, for instance even killing could be remote controlled, they turned people into abstract entities and basically into ‘things’ eg ‘securocrats’, killing things especially ‘harmful things’ would be easier on the mind i reckon than knowing you are killing just ordinary people, innocent people in particular who may not have had any strong views against the union or even loyalism.

    I think this is were loyalists paid a bigger price (once again) in terms of mental ill health damage as they were never conditioned to think in the abstract but reactionary and in the reality. (I am going by research on loyalists ex-combatants as to how they are faring post conflict which seems to show that they are doing less well than republicans in terms of sedative use, alcohol dependency and loneliness etc etc.)

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  21. Ulster Press Centre (profile) black spot says:

    DC: I think this is were loyalists paid a bigger price (once again) in terms of mental ill health damage as they were never conditioned to think in the abstract but reactionary and in the reality. (I am going by research on loyalists ex-combatants as to how they are faring post conflict which seems to show that they are doing less well than republicans in terms of sedative use, alcohol dependency and loneliness etc etc.)

    Interesting point DC – but actually the opposite is true.

    This study found that 72% of Nationalist ex-prisoners drank alcohol to ‘hazardous levels’ with Loyalists behind at 64%.

    http://www.ofmdfmni.gov.uk/final_literature_review.pdf

    Nationalists also suffered more from mental health problems and depression.

    I guess it’s probably slightly easier for Loyalists to come to terms with what they did seeing as it was reactionary, retaliatory counter-terrorist violence (as opposed to unprovoked violence from Nationalist groups).

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  22. Gopher (profile) says:

    @fdm

    I have read one or two military histories and impetuosity can just be as big a vice as vaccilation, In fact if you study the generalship of Quitus Fabius Maximus in the face of a devided senate and one of the truly great captains of history and his wise words “Go slowly and all will be clear and sure, haste is always improvident and blind” ignored before the disaster of Cannae. You could infact say that since the dissipation of the protests has now progressed Matt Baggott played the hand petty and devisive politicians dealt him quite well especially as the punishments will now be judicial.One can always find historical examples and I usually follow Clausewitz’s advice on them.

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  23. DC (profile) says:

    it would be a good discussion to have among the groups now the ‘war’ is over, although the health-check isn’t looking too hot for either factions!

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  24. Ulster Press Centre (profile) black spot says:

    Any chance this campaign of sectarian bullying against me can be halted?

    I post nothing but factually correct information yet am followed around by four or five Nationalist trolls telling people not to reply to my posts or repeatedly calling for me to be banned.

    Don’t play the man just because you are unable to play the ball.

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  25. DC (profile) says:

    Personally, I would generally think it more haunting and mentally damaging murdering on sectarian grounds knowing the person may not have had anything against me or my cause so to speak, than picking off a known terrorist, opposed to me and everything i stood for.

    Even if I were to admit that maybe sectarian killings had an impact on getting the ‘RA around the table and calling a truce, doing that unquestionably burdened if not ruined certain loyalists – physically, mentally and materially, it also clearly disproportionately impacted on working class areas, over others.

    Isn’t it great that it’s all over.

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  26. DC (profile) says:

    While I can’t grab the stats for alcoholism the prescription drugs and sedatives usage is higher: loyalists 50.7% to republicans 35%.

    Reasons for this given as loyalists twice as likely to have marital breakdown and less likely to form adult relationships after. The proportion of loyalists owning homes was less in 2010, 32.9% to republicans 50.4%, more loyalists also renting 61.7% to republicans 31.8%.

    One last stat re trouble with dealing with sectarianism as opposed to a republican ‘war’:

    More loyalists 65.8% / Republicans 48.8% agreed to control for ‘avoidance of reminders’ which may suggest a symptom of not coming to terms with conflict related incidents and an attempt to circumvent difficult and emotive issues.

    Jamieson 2010.

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  27. galloglaigh (profile) says:

    Mick just do it already. Am sick of Slugger O’Toole anyway, you’d be doing me a favour…

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  28. FDM (profile) black spot says:

    @Gopher

    I have read one or two military histories and impetuosity can just be as big a vice as vaccilation, In fact if you study the generalship of Quitus Fabius Maximus in the face of a devided senate and one of the truly great captains of history and his wise words “Go slowly and all will be clear and sure, haste is always improvident and blind” ignored before the disaster of Cannae. You could infact say that since the dissipation of the protests has now progressed Matt Baggott played the hand petty and devisive politicians dealt him quite well especially as the punishments will now be judicial.One can always find historical examples and I usually follow Clausewitz’s advice on them.

    —————————————————

    That all sounds wonderful.

    Just one massive glaring error in your logic.

    I agree the flag protests are waning but the precedent Baggott set by not fighting some skirmishes in that campaign is that it looks like we may get a war in the summer because of it. Not what I would call good generalship. Furthermore through his facilitation of fleg protestors he firmly shifted the “new fair equal impartial PSNI” from the middle ground back to the protestant nationalist camp. Dividing his support base both within and without of the PSNI. Not particularly clever.

    Hence the reason for the original thread, hence the subject we are talking about it.

    Just goes to show you that you say something intelligent, base it in a firm historical context and still be massively wrong.

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  29. sonofstrongbow (profile) says:

    So much tosh to respond to. So little time.

    Firstly, and glaringly obvious to anyone with intelligence even slightly above that of an amoeba, the police are not an army (here of course I ignore the rabid musings of the nationalist lunatic fringe).

    An army’s role is to ‘find, fix and kill the enemy’. The police have radically different priorities.

    Secondly in an era of the Human Rights Act the police are compelled to act proportionately. This is especially so when considering/deploying the use of force.

    There is a vast operational difference and a massive mismatch in the potential for violence between people illegally blocking a road and obstructing any number of law abiding motorists and people illegally blocking a road whilst a large number of folks in opposition to them approach. When those who are approaching are, as they approach, not presently breaking the law the primary police focus is quite rightly on the illegal obstructionists.

    One of the tests for proportional use of force is considering the potential harm from taking action (removing illegal roadblocks) vis-a-vis the potential for harm of allowing the opposing groups to come together. In the Ardoyne scenario given the nationalists’ Traditional Riot activity the test is met and the police quite rightly should move illegal roadblocks.

    Thirdly the police quite often “fail to enforce the law”. For example many minor motoring offences and antisocial transgressions do not lead to prosecution and are dealt with by police ‘advice and warning’. This is called discretion and, as we do not live in a police state where the cops punish every single breach of the law, long may it remain an option.

    Fourthly, where the police have been offered violence in ‘flag protests’ they have arrested people, used batons, water cannon and have fired baton rounds as they have done in other violent scenarios.

    Lastly it is not for the police to always be looking over their collective shoulder to see how their actions are being viewed by the gallery. They will, again quite rightly, explain their motivations when concerns are raised. As they have done throughout the ‘flags’ imbroglio.

    Should people attempt to use police operational decisions as some sort of corrupt sounding board for their own (anti-police) agenda they should be ignored if they reject the opportunity given by the police to objectively consider police actions.

    IMHO that some, such as Chris Donnelly, who constantly berate the police are aggrieved is not the PSNI’s intent. However from a uninvolved unionist’s perspective I must say I do enjoy his, and the other Drones, discomfort. ;)

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  30. Kevsterino (profile) says:

    I see the ditto I put up yesterday, in response to a deleted entry, ‘awaits moderation’. If a moderator would please delete the ditto I would appreciate it as it now appears to ditto a post from UPC (perish the thought). Thanks.

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  31. tacapall (profile) says:

    What planet does this idiot come from.

    http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/headlines/jamie-bryson-uvf-were-not-terrorists-1-4827410

    Jamie Bryson: UVF were not terrorists

    Mr Bryson said: “Loyalists were not terrorists. The IRA were the terrorists.” He then added: “I would not view the UVF as terrorists no.”

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  32. Ulster Press Centre (profile) black spot says:

    The IRA started The Troubles and drove the momentum of of it. Loyalist violence was reactionary and on hundreds of occasions they promised that they would stop once the IRA gave up. That’s exactly what they did.

    What don’t you understand about it? Many Unionists would agree with Jamie’s analysis.

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  33. tacapall (profile) says:

    UPC your knowledge of history goes as far as the end of your nose.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gusty_Spence

    “On 7 May 1966, a group of UVF men led by Spence petrol bombed a Catholic-owned pub on Shankill Road. Fire also engulfed the house next door, killing the elderly widow, Matilda Gould (77), who lived there.[15] On 27 May, Spence ordered four UVF men to kill an Irish Republican Army (IRA) member, Leo Martin, who lived on Falls Road. Unable to find their target, the men drove around in search of a Catholic. They shot dead John Scullion (28), a Catholic civilian, as he walked home.[16] Spence later wrote “At the time, the attitude was that if you couldn’t get an IRA man you should shoot a Taig, he’s your last resort”.[16] On 26 June, the same gang shot dead Catholic civilian Peter Ward (18) and wounded two others as they left a pub on Malvern Street, Belfast.”

    What was the above in retaliation for then UPC.

    Which organisation, UVF,UDA,IRA have murdered more people since they supposedly give up using violence to achieve their aims. Which organisation has murdered more protestants since the signing of the GFA and in what way was it reactionary.

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  34. Kevsterino (profile) says:

    When I hear the loyalist mantra of “We were only reacting to Fenian bloodshed” it sounds like when I would walk into my son’s room, and he’s pointing at his brother, screaming “He made me do it”.

    As a plea for understanding, it fails. As an explanation of behavior, it fails. As an expression of manliness, it fails. As a method to contain or eradicate Fenian bloodshed, it fails.

    “Mongo only pawn in game of life” ~ Blazing Saddles

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  35. Ulster Press Centre (profile) black spot says:

    IRA murdered protestant William Hunter in 1961.

    Why not start history there???

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  36. boondock (profile) says:

    Tacapall I dont know why you bother UPC is a troll. Infact Im sure UPC is Jamie Bryson – only one way to find out say Roger Rabbit for us UPC. Actually I take it all back some photos just in prove Jamie is actually a secret Republican!

    http://oldbitterballs.blogspot.gr/2013/02/jamie-bryson-irish-hero.html

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  37. tacapall (profile) says:

    “Why not start history there”

    Why not start with Cromwell, here’s a list of families that financially benefited from that invasion.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britains-colonial-shame-slaveowners-given-huge-payouts-after-abolition-8508358.html

    Boondrock UPC is entitled to believe or promote whatever viewpoint he likes.Im not trying to change his opinions in any way nor do I agree with them, but free speech is free speech. Distorting history has been a tool of the British for centuries and UPC and the boys obviously play the same game.

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  38. SK (profile) says:

    “There is a vast operational difference and a massive mismatch in the potential for violence between people illegally blocking a road and obstructing any number of law abiding motorists and people illegally blocking a road whilst a large number of folks in opposition to them approach.”

    _______

    Quite right.

    It’s not as if any (illegal) Loyalist processions put themselves in a position where they were marching past nationalist houses or anything. Nope. Never once did they stroll by Short Strand, chucking bricks and waving their wee “fleg” as they passed. Vast “operational difference” there alright.

    Another “vast operational difference” lays in the fact that those recent Ardoyne riots you speak of didn’t result in upwards of 100 PSNI injuries in the space of a month. Nor did they cost the province 15 million quid.

    Were the fenians to generate that kind of carnage, your ilk would be calling for Ardoyne to be Napalmed. In your defence though, that’s only because you’re a petty little hypocrite.

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  39. DC (profile) says:

    You should really go back to 1921 and get it right.

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  40. Zig70 (profile) says:

    We could save a fortune and replace the PSNI with freelance photographers and a couple of big fences this summer.

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  41. sonofstrongbow (profile) says:

    Typical, and exceedingly tiresome, ad hominem response from the SKtroll. Although a bit like being savaged by a dead sheep as some politico once observed.

    As someone who obviously lives in another jurisdiction you are unaware that returning loyalists have no choice but to pass by Short Strand. That is unless they walk out of town to travel the Outer Ring Road. I’m sure you’d favour that option as you seem to have a difficulty with having a Prod about the place.

    As to “chucking bricks” there were quite a few coming the other way. Though I suppose they were ‘good’ Catholic bricks rather than ‘bad’ Protestant bricks.

    You are quite correct that Ardoyne riots do not rack up three figure police casualties in the “space of a month”. The Ardoyne Tradiotional Riot can ‘achieve’ that body count in a few hours.

    Your are also correct that my “ilk” :) would desire police to take effective action at Ardoyne. However it could be achieved by police moving into the estate to disperse and arrest rioters rather than standing Aunt Sally like at the junctions of the Ardoyne and the Crumlin Road.

    As to napalm, well that’s more of an Irish nationalist weapon. Have a read about the La Mon atrocity, you’ll see what I mean.

    In your defence though I bet you cheered that one (Prod victims again).

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  42. Submariner (profile) says:

    tacapall (profile) 26 February 2013 at 4:39 pm
    What planet does this idiot come from.

    http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/headlines/jamie-bryson-uvf-were-not-terrorists-1-4827410

    Jamie Bryson: UVF were not terrorists

    Mr Bryson said: “Loyalists were not terrorists. The IRA were the terrorists.” He then added: “I would not view the UVF as terrorists no.”

    He does not come from a different planet he is expressing a widely held belief among the PUL community, what John Taylor referred to as the sneaking regard. Sectarian hatred is endemic in the PUL community and its not just confined to the working classes. One only has to look to the OO and Unionist politicians for examples.Look at how many members of the OO are convicted terrorists who the OO refuse to expel. Also take the terrorist aligned bands that the OO continue to engage for their marches despite the fact that these bands make no secret of who they are aligned to couple that with the cover given to the UVF scum bags that directed the trouble over marches last summer and the flag riots this year by the likes of McCausland Dodds Campbell and Robinson and its not that hard to see why Jamie boy thinks the way he does.

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  43. Kevsterino (profile) says:

    When people never reach outside their sect to talk to the other side, and can bounce their myths off on another as undisputed truth, they wind up speaking like Jamie and that broad that said republicans burn tricolours at their rallies.

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  44. babyface finlayson (profile) says:

    Submariner
    “Sectarian hatred is endemic in the PUL community and its not just confined to the working classes.”
    I don’t think it is right to demonise a whole community in this way.
    The OO has,what 30-40,000 members now. Even if you maintain that everyone of them is a sectarian hater,which is doubtful, that still leaves about 860,000 people from the PUL community or from that background about which you cannot make a definite judgement.
    The actual problems are bad enough without such inflammatory remarks.

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  45. DC (profile) says:

    Re Jamie Bryson and the UVF, perhaps he meant the 1912 one?

    If not, that’s one for the Nolan Show tomorrow and no doubt the pressing of the self-destruct button by Jamie himself!

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  46. Kevsterino (profile) says:

    DC, he was talking about the later version, from what I could gather from the interview.

    Pitiful.

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  47. tacapall (profile) says:

    Submariner I know what the Orange Order stands for but to be honest the majority of Orange marches do take place in a peaceful and civilised manner and not all Orangemen are bogiemen. There are rumps of bigots like those in Belfast and Portadown that bring those christian values that the majority of Orangemen professs into question, but by and by they are the minority, just like the blood and thunder bands that are hired by the same bigots.

    Being a republican who believes the only way to rid us of British influence is to make it economically and financially burdensome on the British public then Jamie and the boys are playing their part in that process, add in the annual wanton destruction of public and private property and the related clean up costs on the 12th followed by the policing costs of 3000 plus orange parades a year, eventually we are going to get to the point where the British public and the British exchequer will say enough is enough, the cost of maintaining this strategic advantage far outweighs the actual importance of it when the British can come to an agreed arrangement with the Irish people that will cost virtually nothing.

    DC why not start at the beginning rather than in the middle.

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  48. Ulster Press Centre (profile) black spot says:

    When a group of people or a community are being murdered and maimed on a daily basis, and the government of the state and their security forces are either unable or unwilling to defend those people, then they have the right to defend themselves.

    That is a human right respected throughout the world and by all international bodies and courts.

    The IRA were attacking protestants on a daily basis, murdering hundreds and forcing tens of thousands out of their homes and off their land. The weak UK government were unwilling to defend their citizens in the same way that the USA, Israel, etc would do so some of those people rightly chose to defend themselves.

    Anyone looking back at The Troubles without their green blinkers on would have to admit that almost all of the UVF/UFF military operations were retaliatory attacks. Sean Grahams, Loughinisland, Greysteel, McGurks, Milltown, etc would never had happened if the IRA hadn’t carried out unprovoked attacks against protestant civilians first.

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  49. Ulster Press Centre (profile) black spot says:

    tacapall: Being a republican who believes the only way to rid us of British influence is to make it economically and financially burdensome on the British public then Jamie and the boys are playing their part in that process, add in the annual wanton destruction of public and private property and the related clean up costs on the 12th followed by the policing costs of 3000 plus orange parades a year, eventually we are going to get to the point where the British public and the British exchequer will say enough is enough, the cost of maintaining this strategic advantage far outweighs the actual importance of it…

    You’re aware they pay the same per head to Wales as they do to NI?

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  50. Reader (profile) says:

    Ulster Press Centre: Anyone looking back at The Troubles without their green blinkers on would have to admit that almost all of the UVF/UFF military operations were retaliatory attacks. Sean Grahams, Loughinisland, Greysteel, McGurks, Milltown, etc would never had happened if the IRA hadn’t carried out unprovoked attacks against protestant civilians first.
    Disgusting. Just saying that an attack was a tit-for-tat attack isn’t a meaningful justification – evil *and* stupid, it never did any ‘good’. And it’s not true anyway – loyalists mounted a decades long campaign of random sectarian attacks in addition to the spectaculars.
    It might make it clearer to you what you are doing when I tell you that some Sluggerites defended (ahem – set in context) Kingsmills as a successful tit-for-tat attack with a net positive outcome. How does that make you feel?

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  51. Ulster Press Centre (profile) black spot says:

    Reader: It might make it clearer to you what you are doing when I tell you that some Sluggerites defended (ahem – set in context) Kingsmills as a successful tit-for-tat attack with a net positive outcome. How does that make you feel?

    The simple answer to that would be that it is wrong – the HET found the Kingsmills attack had been planned for months beforehand.

    http://sluggerotoole.com/2011/06/16/het-report-on-kingsmills/

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  52. Submariner (profile) says:

    tacapall

    The whole Orange subculture is built on sectarian hatred and supremacist thinking. One only has to look back to Drumcree and the Anglo Irish agreement to see the depth of support for the sort of hatred being spouted, and that support came from all sections of the PUL community including the Unionist politicians. Look how people like McCausland , Dodds, and others behaved during the Holy Cross episode when it was little schoolgirls being targeted by the Loyalist terrorist scum. Did they condemn it? Did they stand with the schoolgirls/ No they stood with the terrorists and the sectarian bigots.

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  53. DC (profile) says:

    I’ve taken offence at what Reader said.

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  54. tacapall (profile) says:

    UPC really ! Throw those figures up then, especially when no-one other than the British themselves know how much it really costs for their continued presence in Ireland.

    Everyone does have a right to defend themselves just like every country has a right to use force to dislodge invaders from their lands. I can go back in history and show you when my aancestors were murdered and their lands stolen, probably sold as slaves too. We’ve moved on from that time though we are now a society who although are at odds over who should govern us but we both share values that are not a kick in the arse off each other. The problem for me is privileged birth and the parasitical nature of the British establishment, is the Church of England really any different than the Church of Rome, also is the Church of England Catholic or Protestant ?

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  55. Ulster Press Centre (profile) black spot says:

    tacapall: UPC really ! Throw those figures up then, especially when no-one other than the British themselves know how much it really costs for their continued presence in Ireland.

    They came up in a recent Slugger blog in the past few weeks.

    I can’t seem to find it in the archives at the min.

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  56. Neil (profile) says:

    In 2001-02, public expenditure per head in Wales was higher than most of the English regions, but lower than in Scotland or Northern Ireland.[30]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Wales

    Source 30 has a scatter graph showing NI costing approx. 30% more per capita.

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  57. tacapall (profile) says:

    “The whole Orange subculture is built on sectarian hatred and supremacist thinking. One only has to look back to Drumcree”

    Submariner one of the important reasons not generally talked about why they haven’t marched back down Garvaghy Road is because the majority of Orangemen did not support them, they either accepted the law or they did not agree with Portadown Orangemen.

    Like I said a rump of bigots in Belfast and Portadown.

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  58. Mc Slaggart (profile) says:

    “Submariner one of the important reasons not generally talked about why they haven’t marched back down Garvaghy Road is because the majority of Orangemen did not support them, they either accepted the law or they did not agree with Portadown Orangemen.”

    “Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan.” John F. Kennedy

    The current flag dispute has only served to show how weak Unionism is. It could be it will lead to the end of the Parades Commission if the OO push against the weak police stance.

    Does the OO think what will replace will be anything but a Pyrrhic Victory?

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  59. tacapall (profile) says:

    The only way the parades commission will come to an end is if Nationalism agrees with it or the British government bring it to an end behind their backs.

    Lets be honest, there is no long term future for parading unless the costs to the taxpayer come down or the costs involved in policing them and cleaning up after them are met by the organisers. Orangemen know this and know eventually they will have to talk to residents who are concerned by some of the practices being displayed by some brethren and supporters during parades through their neighbourhoods. This will come sooner rather than later.

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  60. Comrade Stalin (profile) says:

    Membership of the Orange Order dropped dramatically following Drumcree. Unionists, including the OO, can’t understand the benefit of a strategic retreat.

    The Parades Commission was almost abolished a couple of years ago. At the last minute the plan to remove it was vetoed – by none other than the self-styled leader of Unionism, Peter Robinson. If anyone is unhappy about the Commission’s ongoing role in dealing with parades they need to take it up with him.

    Meanwhile, I don’t see how nationalists can talk about compromise or mutual respect if they refuse to accept that by and large Orange marching is innocuous and doesn’t cause anyone any trouble. With one or two exceptions, there are no reasons why parades where the marchers behave with dignity and respect should not be allowed.

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  61. babyface finlayson (profile) says:

    tacapall
    I could see the parades commission being made scapegoat for recent events.
    If it is dismantled though, I cannot see the lotuseaters up in Stormont wanting to take on the heavy lifting of parades.
    So it would be surely be replaced with another quango with similar powers.
    The needle returns to the start of the song and we all sing along like before.

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  62. Ulster Press Centre (profile) black spot says:

    Comrade Stalin: Membership of the Orange Order dropped dramatically following Drumcree.

    Really? I suppose you have verifiable figures to back this up?

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  63. tacapall (profile) says:

    Babyface it does seem that Matt Baggott and the parades commission differ in their views in regard to flag protests but at the end of the day people have a right to parade and people have a right to protest and everyone else is entitled to freedom of movement.

    If it is replaced then surely it cannot have less powers or have a more sympathetic attitude to contentious parades otherwise it would not make the slightest difference in attitudes to parades or the cost of policing them.

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  64. Submariner (profile) says:

    A lot of people myself included have been critical of the PSNI over their handling of the flag protests so I would like to congratulate them for the discovery and seizure of a rocket launcher and war head belonging to the dissident scumbags. Wel done

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  65. FDM (profile) black spot says:

    @Submariner

    “A lot of people myself included have been critical of the PSNI over their handling of the flag protests so I would like to congratulate them for the discovery and seizure of a rocket launcher and war head belonging to the dissident scumbags. Wel done”

    ——————————————-

    Just the RUC fighting their temporal cold war.

    Whilst I am glad that weapons have been taken out of circulation it just another example that the policing here is directed at one side of the community.

    Honestly we are truly screwed in the summer. I wonder if Europcar, National and Hertz are buying armoured cars for tourist hire so they can drive through the jungle with with relative impunity?

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  66. babyface finlayson (profile) says:

    tacapall
    I was looking at the ParadesCommission website for a clear definition of a parade without much luck.It refers to the PublicProcessions Act which in turn refers to ‘a procession in a public place’.
    Does the footpath count?
    Does a whiteline protest count?
    A protest is interpreted in relation to specific processions so I don’t know if flag protests meet that criteria..
    Interestingly the Law Society Gazette refers to Flockhart v Robinson 1950, which established a distinction in defining a procession, between those who move along as a rabble and those who move in an orderly and organised fashion.
    So a rabble is not a parade!

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  67. Comrade Stalin (profile) says:

    Does the footpath count?

    I’d have thought so. The legislation doesn’t say the procession has to be on the carriageway.

    The illegal parades which are taking place into Belfast every weekend are very definitely organized and not a “rabble”.

    Does a whiteline protest count?

    The parades legislation only deals with public processions and protests against those processions. Any other obstruction on a road is a matter under the Public Order (Northern Ireland) Order 1987.

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  68. FDM (profile) black spot says:

    Whats a parade, what isn’t a parade?

    Whats a procession, what isn’t a procession?

    Whats a demonstration, what isn’t a demonstration?

    I think the important thing is people, it doesn’t take a law degree [as the overwhelming amount of cops don't have them] to spot law breaking.

    I think we could all see from the footage and our own personal experiences when the law was being flouted.

    If in doubt the cops could have scooped people and let the DPP and the courts ascertain the truth of it.

    THAT IS NOT WHAT WE EXPERIENCED DURING THE FLEG PROTESTS.

    What we saw was coppers observing law breaking, facilitating law breaking and doing nothing. Sure if in doubt the courts can sort it out, the highways clear and we all get home to see our families without being held to ransom by a tiny minority of the population.

    Less of the pedantics people, thats what the lawyers are for. Not much use for anything else are they.

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  69. Obelisk (profile) says:

    Some movement on the PSNI response with Jamie Bryson and Willie Frazer apparently being arrested

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21601341

    That’s two and a half months since this began.

    The problem that the response when Nationalists might block the roads that the police response will be measured on a stopwatch and not on a calendar remains.

    I do support the police and I agree we need a good force but this whole situation has left me with a bad taste in the mouth.

    Even if they don’t think they are partisan, even if when it boils down to it they weren’t being partisan, they’ve given the appearence of being partisan to a group that has inclined to be mistrustful of them. This has sadly set policing back YEARS.

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  70. tacapall (profile) says:

    Babyface regardless of whether the flag protests or parades are viewed as legal or illegal, the general public have a right to freedom of movement. If a parade or protest is organised purely to target and deny the general public, that right to freedom of movement, like flag protests or some parades, then the PSNI are duty bound by law to ensure the roads are clear and free from danger so that the general public go about their normal business.

    The right to freedom of movement must surely supersede the right to protest or parade when the protests or parades are simply being organised to deny citizens of the state free movement.

    The PSNI under the direction of Baggottt failed in that duty to uphold the rights of the general public, it has nothing to do with the PC.

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  71. SK (profile) says:

    So Jamie “The UVF weren’t terrorists” Bryson is laying low as his house is “ransacked” by the PSNI.

    Better late than never.

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  72. SK (profile) says:

    SoS,

    Have you seen the youtube footage? Jamie’s sons of Ulster approach the line of police officers who are charged with preventing another riot, then one of his mongloids scream “f*ck you then, we’re goin’ to the markets!”. In other words, sticking it up the Nationalists was never far from their minds. It’s a Pavlovian thing. I bet when it rains on the Shankill, Billy looks up and shakes his fist at whatever taig is behind it.

    MOPEish non-sequiturs about La Mon aside, I would merely say this: It’s fine to advocate “robust policing” against Ardoyne nationalists who express their opposition to the Klan. But a little bit of consistency would be nice. Try and overcome that urge to defend any donkey who wraps himself in a union flag. Recognise that a police force who sees fit to adopt “robust” tactics against one group of scumbags, should be equally free to treat all the little “Son Of Strongbows” and “Ulster Press Centres” currently running amok in Belfast in similar fashion.

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  73. FDM (profile) black spot says:

    @SK 12:22

    Here here SK. Nail and head.

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  74. Obelisk (profile) says:

    SK

    Thankyou for expressing your opinon on the issue so well, and it’s an opinion I share.

    I don’t defend protestors who block roads ahead of marches, especially ones approved by the Parades Commission and therefore legal.

    What I want is consistency of treatment and it is in this perceived failure of consistency that the trouble is going to come from.

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  75. sonofstrongbow (profile) says:

    SKtroll,

    Your use of the term “mongloids” tells me all I really need to know about what a contemptible odious little prick you really are.

    As the parent of a disabled child I find the term extremely offensive. I’m sure others will to. However I do hope that the site moderators leave it up as it will serve to illustrate the kind of lowlife that unfortunately sometimes contaminates this site.

    My last words to you are these. I expect the police to enforce the law fairly and proportionately as they are charged to do. Unlike you I do not expect the police to play to the sectarian gallery where bigoted little Waldorf and Statler’s like you and FDM demand they adopt inappropriate tactics in a particular situation just because in other situations those same tactics were found to be appropriate.

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  76. SK (profile) says:

    Didn’t take much for that mask to slip, SoS.

    Yellow surely?

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  77. FDM (profile) black spot says:

    @sonofstrongbow

    “bigoted little Waldorf and Statler’s like you and FDM demand”

    ——————————-

    I am just a mad big bigot asking that the law be exercised equally to all in society.

    Damn that bigotry is just hanging out of me.

    By the way I am sure that as a parent you will realise that children may actually use this site for the likes of political research/history/current affairs projects. Additionally there are people of many faiths who also use these boards and who may indeed find swearing offensive.

    So if you could tone down the language a bit I am sure we would all appreciate it.

    Maybe have a glass of strongbow and calm down as well. Cheers.

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  78. Yellowford (profile) says:

    Absolutely ridiculous. These ‘parades’ are a joke. But then again i feel that parading in general is a bit of a joke. Loyalist and republican. However there is some discrepancy over the numbers. In 2007 according to wikipedia, unionist and loyalist parades amounted to 1354, whereas nationalist and republicans parades sat at 144. To compare like for like is spurious.
    One thing I would like to know is, what if nationalists and republicans decide that they’ve had enough and decide to close the majority of the roads in Belfast, and parade past a loyalist estate every week. Would unionist commentators be defending their rights? No chance, unionists would be incandescent with rage, and rightly so.
    The primary reason why police tactics will be different come Ardoyne will lie in the protesters ability to mobilise. But then 15 years after the GFA, the security services should have by and large dismantled this ability by now.

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  79. sonofstrongbow (profile) says:

    FDM,

    I note that you take me to task about “swearing” (?) and that I should “tone down the language”. At the same time you cheer on the SKtroll who used a deeply offensive term once employed in the dark ages to describe those with Downs Syndrome. That word, with its deeply racist overtones, is quite rightly recognised as unacceptable by the vast majority of people.

    However you put yourself in support of its employment by the said troll by not only failing to condemn it but by making an issue of my language.

    I do not remember ever being angry about anything posted on this site until today but the SKtroll has managed to raise my temper by his attack on the disabled. The rest of his mutterings do not amount to a hill of beans.

    Your partisan approach, bypassing SKtrolls offensive language to make a point about me, is perfect qualification for, and justification of, my use of ‘bigot’ to describe you.

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  80. SK (profile) says:

    As they say in my jurisdiction, don’t dish it out if you can’t take it.

    I’ve never seen anyone have a full-blown breakdown on a website before. SoS, I apologise if my choice of words aggravated whatever emotional disorder it is that you suffer from.

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  81. FDM (profile) black spot says:

    @sonofstrongbow

    Ah that’ll be emo-rage probably spawned by the fact your arguments hold less water than my smallest childs hands.

    Just keep the language under control and we are all good.

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  82. babyface finlayson (profile) says:

    FDM
    “Less of the pedantics people,2
    I’m not trying to make some pedantic point to in any way excuse these clearly illegal activities.
    It was more a point of interest really (as the thread has more or less run its course I think) about how the ParadesCommission may be viewing things and what argument may ensue when the buckpassing gets into full swing.
    tacapall
    “the PSNI are duty bound by law to ensure the roads are clear and free from danger so that the general public go about their normal business.”
    I agree but I would also think the PSNI have an overriding duty to prevent loss of life, a bit like a doctor (first do no harm) and they may well argue that their actions were intended to minimise such risk.
    To be clear I hope as many of these timewasters as possible are scooped and feel the full weight of the law.

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  83. babyface finlayson (profile) says:

    By the way I would consider the term ‘mongoloid’ to be offensive too.

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  84. changeisneeded (profile) black spot says:

    Strongbow dude. Wind your neck in you big time whine. Sounds like opportunistic crocodile tears Buddy.. :-) dinny dish her if you canny take her hi!

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  85. FDM (profile) black spot says:

    @babyface

    “PSNI have an overriding duty to prevent loss of life”

    —————————-

    So they store it all up for the summer to hand it out to who they really want to hand it out to?

    Sorry, but on that point alone your suggestion doesn’t stand. The law must be done and be seen to be done. They can use discretion when they a) get back to the station b) in the info they send to the DPP c) in the DPP response and d) at the courts. The optics on this are disastrous for us all.

    There have been a lot of words used on this forum that I don’t like. I don’t think SK goes around abusing people less fortunate than him on a regular basis. I think it should be left at that, without the melodramatics.

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  86. sonofstrongbow (profile) says:

    FDM,

    As I suspected when I wrote my 2:07 post you can’t bring yourself to do anything other than champion the offensive term used by the SKtroll. Yet you again note my language. :/

    Are you so lacking in confidence that you are scared to break ranks with someone who uses offensive language about disabled people? I guess so.

    As to “argument”. Well really, you don’t argue or debate you merely chant anti police slogans weaselly couched in the empty rhetoric of ‘consistency’. You obviously do not understand either the nuances or the complexity of modern policing. Reasoning goes to the wall in your patent annoyance that the police are not cracking enough Prod heads for your liking.

    Goggle a few police ‘use of force’ models from across the world and try to understand that it is just a little bit more sophisticated than a ‘they’re breaking the law: get them!’ approach.

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  87. FDM (profile) black spot says:

    @ SoS

    “champion the offensive”

    Nope didn’t do that. Nor by your implication did I use any inapprorpriate language. Pity you can not say the same.

    “you don’t argue or debate”

    That’ll be because I don’t have those skills, being one of those pig-under-the-arm bog trotters I suppose.

    “you merely chant”

    That’ll be because being one of those pig-under-the-arm bog trotters that keep winning the Eurovision means that we are good at the old chanting.

    “weaselly couched in the empty rhetoric of ‘consistency’”

    That’ll because being one of those pig-under-the-arm bog trotters I have red hair and am related to Ron Weasley.

    “You obviously do not understand”

    Please see point above related to stupid Irish people.

    “Reasoning goes to the wall”

    Please see point above related to stupid Irish people.

    ” and try to understand that”

    Please see point above related to stupid Irish people.

    “it is just a little bit more sophisticated”

    Please see point above related to stupid Irish people.

    And I’m the bigot?

    bawahahaha

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  88. SK (profile) says:

    Lost the argument, so opted instead for a bit of faux outrage to knock things off track. Your conscious decision to retard discussion on this issue is disappointing, Strongbow. You’re rapidly approaching UPC levels of trolldom.

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  89. Reader (profile) says:

    FDM: Please see point above related to stupid Irish people.
    I think it’s just you, actually. Instead of putting words in SoS’ mouth, why not deal with what he actually said?

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  90. Reader (profile) says:

    sonof strongbow: As the parent of a disabled child I find the term extremely offensive.
    changeisneeded: Strongbow dude. Wind your neck in you big time whine. Sounds like opportunistic crocodile tears Buddy.. :-) dinny dish her if you canny take her hi!
    Your smiley isn’t the all purpose disinfectant you imagine it to be.

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  91. FDM (profile) black spot says:

    @Reader

    “why not deal with what he actually said?”

    Its difficult to disentangle them from the insults. If he cannot conduct himself appropriately why should I bother even interacting with him?

    I’ve made it very clear where the issues with policing are to answer the OP.

    SoS bangs on that we don’t understand the police tactics. Of course we do. If those tactics were so correct WHY is everyone now having to change their underwear after thinking about what is coming in the summer?

    BECAUSE

    They were a short term fix which has

    NOW

    left us with a massive problem in the summer.

    Better to fight a few skirmishes then/now than a war later.

    It was policing myopia.

    ALSO

    It has DEMONSTRABLY, because we are all writing about it, DAMAGED the reputation of the PSNI. They have effectively shifted THEMSELVES back into the protestant nationalilst camp. Splitting and weakening what cross community support they had.

    Now I have said that maybe 20 times now on this thread and others. Are we there yet?

    The proof is in the pudding, which we can have heated by putting it on top of the fires in the North of the city.

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  92. sonofstrongbow (profile) says:

    Reader,

    I suspect your point to ‘changeisneeded’ will be lost on him; too interested in charging to the defence of the troll. Insulting disabled people is of little importance when compared to certain posters’ ‘solidarity’.

    FDM,

    As an Irishman I’m not about to diss myself. Your long winded, misplaced and self pitying rejoinder only serves to put your bigotry in even sharper focus.

    Your latest ‘explanation’ of your reasoning, redolent as it is with military imagery, yet again betrays your misunderstanding of policing.

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  93. FDM (profile) black spot says:

    @sonofstrongcider

    “misunderstanding of policing”

    Well I will hold you to those sentiments then sonny-jim. I call your bluff and all that. I will take your PSNI facilitating law breaking over 3 months and will raise you a summer of complete mayhem.

    When the proverbial hits the fan bladded cooling machine in the summer, then you can tell us all about this brilliant policing strategy that went on over the months from December to February. I will bookmark the thread for the purpose. You be sure to do the same.

    “Long-winded” – sorry if there were too many words in there for you.

    “Misplaced” – comments about the PSNI response to the fleg protests in a thread about the PSNI response to the fleg protests. Nightmare.

    “Self-pity” – lost mate. “Haven’t a baldy” as they say in Belfast.

    “Military imagery” – thats because I am the reincarnation of Napoleon Bonaparte.

    Please feel free to indulge yourself in more of your really interesting mawkish self-indulgent imagery of SK kicking people before they get onto yellow buses. The floor is yours for more of your pearls of wisdom. Or alternatively, as a prayer, you could spare us.

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  94. sonofstrongbow (profile) says:

    Funnily enough FDM I can picture you in a locked facility proclaiming to all and sundry that you are the little Corsican.

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  95. Mc Slaggart (profile) says:

    Yellowford

    “One thing I would like to know is, what if nationalists and republicans decide that they’ve had enough and decide to close the majority of the roads in Belfast,”

    You ask the Question of Unionists but its how the PSNI act that matters.

    If Nationalists in Omagh peace fully block OO/bands from parading what can the PSNI do?

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  96. redstar2011 (profile) says:

    Many of us will be watching with GREAT interest at Ardoyne shops next month to see if MMGs police force adopt the same tactic of allowing a road to remain blocked as they used when unionists blocked roads across the North in their fleg protests- or will the sham of a new non partisan force yet again be exposed.

    Over to you Matt and Marty

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