• Drumlins Rock

    Individually it could be closer to the truth than all the analysis to date.

  • Alias

    It’s funny if you’re on the side of the devide which is engaging in the form of identity-cleansing that these people are protesting against.

    Otherwise, stick the same caption on an image of an early civil rights march in NI and see if it’s still funny.

    It’s basically an attempt to censor proper debate by ignoring the actual reason why the protests are occuring – which is, of course, to politically protest the systematic removal of symbols of Britishness from civic society.

  • Mick Fealty

    If you take a broad enough view, it’s still funny…

  • märsta

    “identity cleansing” – ohh please!

  • Bishops Finger

    “And we were only playing the Beach Boys, FS”

  • Dec

    Alias

    You got through that entire MOPE without mentioning Short Strand. There is hope for this place.

  • BarneyT

    Alias, looking at this rationally, if balance is going to be achieved in NI surely some of the symbols of Britishness will have to erode, but not disappear? Irish symbols by definition will have to be introduced and both have to be tolerated.

    I know it’s hard to tolerate, but as it was so lop-sided in the first place, surely more of the concessions will be on the unionist side for the simple reason that we are moving from a British dominated territory to one that should be more inclusive and has a more even demographic.

  • 6crealist

    Comparing the civil rights movement to a bunch of sectarian rioters led by a drugs-pusher from east Belfast?

    Do one.

  • TheUnicorn

    6crealist (profile) 18 January 2013 at 1:09 pm
    Comparing the civil rights movement to a bunch of sectarian rioters led by a drugs-pusher from east Belfast?

    Do one.

    – Here here.

  • Cric

    Barney, you are right – the problem is that every move towards neutrality is seen as a concession to Nationalism and a vindication of IRA violence. It might help the situation if it wasn’t ex IRA members who were the drivers of change – but even still the moderate position of the Alliance is now being derided as anti-Union.

    Regarding Alias’ sombre analysis – I am yet (and I’m open to new evidence) to see any representative of these protesters make a genuine articulate case on why they are correct. Almost every interview on Youtube, or even in the mainstream media, involves some individual repeatedly saying “because Ulster is British!”. I don’t wish to be harsh but it’s hard not to laugh at a group of flag waving fist shaking humans, who don’t even appear to understand why they feel angry and disgruntled.

  • carl marks

    How about this as a alternative header,
    The lad in the hoody is saying,
    Now all together lads “ The Wombles of Wimbledon Common are we”

  • iluvni

    Mick Fealty (profile)
    18 January 2013 at 12:19 pm

    If you take a broad enough view, it’s still funny…

    Good to see your humour back again Mick.
    Isnt this as serious a subject as terrorists feigning illness?

  • Alias

    “Comparing the civil rights movement to a bunch of sectarian rioters led by a drugs-pusher from east Belfast?”

    I susppose that’s true. After all, the protestors haven’t yet gone to the sectarian extremes that their earlier civil rights Catholic counterparts went to:

    “Today, on the Glenshane Pass, a Protestant was removed by armed thugs from his car and he was told that he had to join the Civil Rights marchers. He refused. A loyalist button was taken from his button-hole. A loyalist tie was pulled from round his neck. His car was absolutely smashed until it was undriveable and he himself was frog-marched a mile up the road.”

    And who was the one calling the other protestors “thugs”? None other than the Rev. Dr. Ian Paisley. Each tribe demonises the other’s protestors.

  • 6crealist

    Paisley in 1969: an honest broker indeed.

    You also neglect to mention that this incident is alleged to have occurred during a People’s Democracy march: a radical, socialist organisation not aligned to the NICRA.

    You’re a poor man’s Mark Regev.

  • Mark

    Whereas you just demonise one tribe Alias …..

    No mention of a petrol bomb been thrown into the car in the incident you refer to .

  • DC

    I agree with Alias about it being funny from one side’s view point.

    I guess it’s as funny as this clip below (albeit now past its use by date in terms of impact):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vel5qjYDcXQ

    Taunting a working class unionist politician is not conducive to good relations but perhaps more revealing is that i really don’t think republicans care about the flag being up or down just that it had good wind-up-ability factor towards the other lot.

    Much like the border poll is bullshit going nowhere in the current economic circumstances, it’s all just a big wind up.

    And more fool Alliance for having a hand in it all.

  • Neil

    Glenshane Pass you say? Just by this place is it not?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burntollet

    A loyalist crowd, numbering in the region of 200, attacked the civil rights marchers from adjacent high ground. Various missiles were used in the assault, as well as iron bars in hand to hand fighting. Nearby members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary did little to prevent the violence.

    The thugs on the street now in 2013 have more in common with their thug forebears than their victims in NICRA. A demand to have things their own way through force, as ever it has been in this part of the world, and which continues nearly 45 years on. It’s alright, they’ll get it eventually.

  • Neil

    A brother of one of those murdered on Bloody Sunday last night slammed those responsible for erecting Parachute Regiment flags in the city ahead of the anniversary of the massacre.

    This could run and run.

    http://www.derryjournal.com/news/local/para-flag-fury-1-4697596

  • BluesJazz

    Regimental flags sre flown in various towns elsewhere in the UK. Why should Londonderry be any different than Colchester?

    The latter does actually have culture though.

  • Yellowford

    Blue jazz.
    I think you know the answer to that yourself.

  • 6crealist

    You’ll have to try harder BJ.

  • Neil

    Palace reveals Queen “satisfied with designated days” for Belfast City Hall Union Flag and is “deeply embarrassed” by Loyalist protesters.

    https://twitter.com/SKY_Breaking/status/292256316452376577

  • Rory Carr

    Since Alias has uncharacteristically failed to give the other side of Paisley’s over-egged account of goings-on at the Glenshane Pass during the much-attacked Burntollet March which Alias uses to demonstrate the violence of the marchers I am happy to do the job for him.

    No thanks necessary. It was easy really since this passage followed immediately on from the (unsupported) remarks of Paisley cited by Alias:

    Asked for comment on this statement, one of the marchers said:

    “I have heard rather divergent accounts of this incident, or perhaps of a number of similar incidents. It is quite clear to me that some Protestant people opposed to the march were attacked by car-loads of so-called Civil Rights supporters. It would be useless and dishonest to make any Pontius Pilate gesture, and say that the march was in no way responsible. Undoubtedly, its progress provided opportunity of paying some old scores based on sectarian quarrels. But I will say, most firmly, that such attitudes were most vigorously condemned and most clearly opposed by People’s Democracy marchers, and by all speakers at the meetings held in course of the march.” ‘

    Now, see the difference ?

  • ayeYerMa

    Cric, a move to “neutrality” IS a concession to Irish Nationalism as there is no such thing as “neutrality” and the constitution is not and never can be “neutral”.

  • Mark

    Neil’s link to the Queen’s comments about being ” deeply embarrassed ” by Loyalists protesters ” is the beginning of the end of these protests .

    Even the thickest plank in the UVF must realise they must stop . ” Deeply embarassed ” ….when was the last time ( barring Harry ) that you heard those words from Buckingham Palace .

    Talk about a royal slap in the face !!

  • 6crealist

    That’s a fake twitter account guys.

  • Mark

    Knew it was too good to be true …. well the twitter account anyway .

  • Neil

    Damn. Apologies.

  • BluesJazz

    Your apology accepted Neil. Just think before you post.

  • Cric

    ayeYerMa, I’d love to see you articulate why your right to be British is more legitimate than my right to be Irish?

    Luckily enough I don’t think you have much say in the matter anyway. Most humans in Northern Ireland on both sides of the political divide are pretty reasonable – and I am quite confident those people outnumber people who think like you.

  • Mick Fealty

    Happens when you get on a roll sometimes Neil… been there, etc..

  • forthman

    That poor little oppressed (in his mind anyway) lout, might only need a hug, hug a hoodie etc..; but on a serious point, the TV screens were full of petrol bombers. In full sight, not 30 feet from the PSNI, enjoying taking a prolonged time to launch an attempted murder on officers! Why were these murderers in the making not disabled with plastic bullets? And their mouth-pieces complain of police brutality…..a sick joke!

  • wee buns

    Like when you have to take away a child’s dummy or blanket or teddy – a hug is needed. The fleg is the comfort blanket and privilege of a ‘baby’ people or planted people.
    Cutting down the number of fleg days is tough love.
    They will survive and be better for it.

  • Alias

    The broader point is that there are some important issues here that are being deliberately obscured by a singular focus on the bad behaviour of some people.

    It’s possible that the TV media is focusing on the bad behaviour because the video images provide good filler for TV screens, but what is the print media’s excuse for ignoring the broader issues? This seems to be yet another example where the media is servile to a political directive from above, and where it is yet again failing in its (self-supposed) duty to side with the people against the state – or, at any rate, not to feed the people the official line.

    There is a right to protest. The state, by default, detests this right because it is usually exercised in opposition to it in one or other of its manifestations. One issue then is the heavy-handed approach of the police to the protestors. In some examples of privately recorded footage released on YouTube, the police can be seen setting attack dogs on peaceful protestors and using water cannons against them. This seems to be an attempt by the state to engineer a riot from an otherwise peaceful protest. I suspect this is occurring to enable video content for the narrative that the media are colluding in proffering to the public. There may be nothing to this suspicion of engineering the riots but I don’t think it too cynical to ask the question…

    By focusing on the trouble that has arisen from some protests, the political debate that the protests seek to create is duly censored. Since the political reason for the protests is duly censored, we are left with a lot of spurious and state/media supplied ‘reasons’ to explain why people are exercising their fundamental human civic and political (and, indeed, human) right to protest, e.g. they’re just scrum, they’re unemployed, they just need a hug, etc.

    Any and every reason is spewed forth except the actual reason – which is that they oppose a sectarian gerrymander by ‘nationalist’ councillors to remove the symbols of Britishness from civic society.

    The other advantage of reducing the public’s perception of the protests to the simple equation that those who object to a sinister identity-cleansing agenda are mere thugs is that is it discourages wider support for the cause which has been duly censored.

  • Knucklehead Smiff

    Alias,

    “By focusing on the trouble that has arisen from some protests, the political debate that the protests seek to create is duly censored”.

    Tick any combination of the following boxes and I’m confident you’ll be able to account for how many decent citizens with no political axe to grind or skin in this game perceive the critical mass of the east Belfast protests particularly, not least in Britain and in parts of the Republic:

    • Pitiful
    • Credulous
    • Ill-educated
    • Culture-less
    • Stupid
    • Underclass
    • Crass
    • Menacing
    • Sectarian
    • Football hooliganesque
    • Chavs
    • Corner boys
    • Lumpen
    • Sociopathic
    • Petty criminals

    The choice of protest tactics plays a part in this – not the media’s fault.

    The lack of proper organization in the protesting groups and their activities – not the media’s fault.

    The ambivalence of some of the spokespersons on the violence emanating from within the protesters and/or their failure to accept responsibility for their actions and its consequences – not the media’s fault.

    The absence of a clear set of objectives or remedies plays a part in this – you could say the absence of a real political purpose – not the media’s fault (after all, consider the number of times they’ll ask something like “what is this all about exactly ?” and consider how many varying and incoherent responses have been forthcoming to that question to date (and there’s still no clear consensus, the goalposts appear to move slightly on the hour); there’s still no clear political program, effectively no agreed tangible grounds for the protest.

    The choice of spokesperson plays a part in this – not the media’s fault.

    I remain critical of the media coverage of aspects of this but the groups protesting have to take responsibility for their actions, their image, their statements.

  • ayeYerMa

    Cric, yes in two words: BRITISH JURISDICTION.

  • ayeYerMa

    An excellent post by Alias. This suppression of legitimate protest (and the worst culprit I have seen in the print media has been the Dublin Guardian (formerly “Belfast Telegraph”) with its aggressive daily front-page and editorial attacks), would suggest that locally we need something like a more powerful system of petitioning triggering automatic discussion.

    Even then, those in power often will do sod all; I think the Swiss have it right with their direct democracy. 50000 signatures and a binding referendum is automatically triggered.

  • märsta

    hi alias

    could you send me some links to the peaceful protesters being set upon by Police attack dogs?

    thx

  • märsta

    Alias,

    Could you also send some links to where the state is trying to reason the cause of the protests?

  • Ulster Press Centre

    Mick, in the interest of equality may I suggest your next blog poking fun at rioters looks at Londonderry 1972?

    Image already done for ya: http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3816/famouswhitehandkerchief.jpg

    We couldn’t have people thinking it’s ok just to make fun of Loyalists with legitimate political grievances…

  • changeisneeded

    Ulster press centre. That’s pretty poor reporting there. Now how’s the weather in Monaghen , any power cuts down there?

  • Cric

    “Cric, yes in two words: BRITISH JURISDICTION.”

    Where most of the population didn’t tick the ‘British’ box at all during the census, and those that did are diminishing.

    So given the reality of the situation where half the country don’t belong to your group – you need to compromise. If you don’t believe in compromise then the majority of reasonable humans around you will continue to make jokes at your expensive, while continuing to progress without you.

  • 6crealist

    Mick

    I’m surprised that you let the above stand.

    There is absolutely no moral equivalence between a man shot dead by state forces while protesting for civil rights in 1972, and a young man engaged in rioting with the police at the behest of a major drugs-dealer.

  • BluesJazz

    Does this uvf guy ‘beast from the east’ have a name?

    I can’t seem to find out. Is there a legal reason for not naming him? (I assume it’s a he).

    I mean is he going to sue? Anyone?

  • 6crealist
  • 6crealist
  • Tomas Gorman

    I find Alias’ heartfelt defence of the civil right to protest encouraging. It’s an important issue. Given the fact that the majority of these intentionally road blocking protests have been facilitated by the PSNI renders his point a bit moot.

    It’s telling that Alias the other supporters of these protesters dwell on the issue of the right to protest over that of the question of why they are actually protesting. The frequency of flag flying over Belfast City Hall is not the entire issue according to Jim Wilson. It seems to be a mélange of grievances such the HET, Sinn Fein pursuing (through democratic means) a limited nationalist agenda within a shared UK jurisdiction and sense of a cultural identity being eroded.

    The cultural identity part is telling. Given that almost all street names and public buildings are named after historical unionist and british figures, It seems that these protests are more of an attempt to claim a historical narrative of the recent conflict. For PUL this was a great wee country until the Republicans wrecked it, therefore the desired outcome of a peace process for them is a return to the Ulster Britishness of Unionist autocracy and the post war consensus with jobs aplenty for the loyal and a strong British Welfare State.

    They are to be disappointed. Civic society is now shared within a UK framework. The fact that a flag is flying in designated days does nothing to change that. But the historically positive relationship with the British state is not under attack from SF or the AP for that matter; it is under attack from an ideologically crazed coalition government who are shrinking the british economy and stripping the industrial redistributive post war model that fosters citizenship more than symbols.

    If unionism didn’t rely on the perceived external threat of nationalism and saw this as an issue that could be used to foster more unicorns. Rather, unionist leaders have proven itself to be inept and calculatingly manipulative and divisive. Gerry Lynchs excellent piece already pointed out how this could also be suicidal for unionism.

  • Tomas Gorman

    One more thing;

    The flying of Parachute Regiment flags in Derry and a counter rally to the Bloody Sunday Commemoration is an idefensible act of EDL style fuckwittery intended to cause some provocation and conflict. The fact that some regular posters on this site are attempting to defend it is beyond belief.

  • Neil

    Of course the major problem with these legitimate and legal protests is that they lose their legitimacy as soon as they become illegal protests. And the vast, vast majority have been illegal, when one includes the crime of blocking the road or indeed launching masonry at police. They lost whatever sympathy they had from my Unionist colleagues when they started preventing people going about their business.

    Wouldn’t have happened had they only been fenians. We know the PSNI can clear a road lickety split when the Orangemen are coming to Ardoyne, with the ensuing unrest that that creates, guaranteed. Yet they happily stand by even when the protestors number fewer than a dozen. Sadly one sided policing hasn’t gone anywhere, I believe it and I hear it from my Republican friends all the time now. The PSNI are regaining their reputation as a protestant force for a protestant people.

    “Where would you like to break the law sir? Just over here? OK no problem we’ll just set up a road block for you down here then you can inconvenience vast numbers of people and cost businesses, jobs and millions into the economy without even having to speak to the people you are affecting.”

  • Tom

    “a move to “neutrality” IS a concession to Irish Nationalism”

    Is it fair to say that this will naturally be the case because the dominance of British vs Irish culture in Northern Ireland since it’s inception ? Neutralizing the trappings of Britsh “culture” to accomodate the “Irishness” of half the population, and thus greater parity is something that must be expected if Northern Ireland is to be sustainable in the Union.
    The protest against these cosmetic changes work against the union , not for it. That goes for the complaints about the Parade Commissions ruling as well. The vast majority of parades pass off peaceablly and without incident. Why insist on marching through Nationalist areas ? You are not helping your cause by resisting the will of half of your fellow citizens. If “British culture” in the PUL community is not about triumphalism then surely these restrictions it’s manifestation can be reasonably accepted . If it is about triumphalisnm and reminding the taigs who is in charge, then the sooner it is consigned to the dustbin of history the better.

  • Tom

    on it’s mainifestation.. sorry

  • DC

    Jamie’s Back, Ulster’s Back, Politics is back – will the flag come back?

  • 6crealist

    “Jamie’s Back, Ulster’s Back, Politics is back – will the flag come back?”

    Yes, of course it will. It’ll be back for a few hours tomorrow in honour of birthday of the wife of the person eighth in the line of succession (North Korean style).

    Then it’ll be gone again by 5pm.

  • Tomas Gorman

    Do you really admire Jamie Bryson DC?

  • DC

    Quite impressed he came out in the snow and slush.

    I guess he’s got the coat for it.

  • Tomas Gorman

    I was referring to his political analysis, not his ability to wear a warm coat.

  • DC

    Why?

  • Tomas Gorman

    Because I’m curious to know. It would give a better idea as to your political thinking.

  • DC

    Tough.

  • anne warren

    Tomas
    I got to the same point with DC a while back, around Christmas.
    He appears unable to put forward a political viewpoint or analysis.
    Maybe he hasn’t got one
    Maybe there isn’t one
    Maybe it’s something unspeakable like George Seawright’s He talked about putting “the other sort” into ovens
    All conjectures are open!!

  • DC

    Can’t people just observe and place the odd comment here and there?

  • DC

    Jamie Bryson and protests that just block roads, I would term it distractionary unionism.

    Although I don’t think the flag should have come down at all because district councillors failed to recognise the regional ownership of the capital city and on the whole people still want to remain in the union.

    It seems that equality advice is only heeded and implemented whenever it can remove unionist stuff, but is ignored by nationalists and nationalist-controlled councils to suit themselves.

    Ignored with apparent impunity.

  • anne warren

    DC
    Thanks very much for your reply. I appreciate it but it raises a lot of questions for me that I hope you will be happy to answer.

    distractionary unionism – what are the protests distracting attention from?

    the regional ownership of the capital city – what exactly do you mean by this?

    on the whole people still want to remain in the union. – so what’s the objection to designated days which are the norm in the rest of the UK? If people want to be UK citizens, they should behave like UK citizens.

    equality advice is only heeded and implemented whenever it can remove unionist stuff –
    There is an awful lot of “Unionist” stuff in NI.
    Due to the weight of history.

    There is very little “Irish” stuff.
    Due to the weight of history

    “Irish” people have equal rights to have their stuff on display
    If people cannot agree to have both, then some “Unionist” stuff has to be removed to balance things.
    Some people don’t want to have any “stuff” on display to make sure the environment is equal for everybody.
    These are the options.
    Having only “Unionist” stuff on display is no longer an option and hasn’t been for over 10 years.

    equality advice . . . is ignored by nationalists and nationalist-controlled councils to suit themselves.
    Please give specific examples .
    Nobody here will accept a swweping statement like that without having the facts

    Ignored with apparent impunity. again we would all be pleased to see specific examples so that the dicussion can continue.

  • DC

    I think distractionary unionism is a sub-set of reactionary unionism while being big on emotion and authenticity, it is small on tactics and even smaller on strategy. Therefore if people aren’t thinking in a rational way such people are unlikely to get what they want, therefore they are distracting themselves, distracting attention away from sitting down and thinking about something that could work for them.

    Although the organising is a shift in thought by Jamie, this is something new and opens up a new field of play.

  • DC

    Re regional ownership – it’s about a regional connection that only comes from the capital city of a region or nation, it is a source of public imagination. Belfast just like any capital is a driver of all sorts of things, it is the economic driver on behalf of the region. City Hall sits snug in Belfast right in the heart of its commercial zone. I guess the way it’s branded and imaged and imagined by its people is important.

    I think people looking in will be confused, strangers that is, they will think what is the trouble about, will have heard about the peace process and NI still being in the UK yet wonder why its flag of that union was taken down.

    Re Irish not being visible enough etc, my approach is to improve, improve relations, improve not remove. That would be improving on this visibility issue. Not removing.

    Reconciliation first, removal last.

    Dissidents could blow up part of the city hall and then a stained glass tricolour window could be installed in place of the missing brick work.

  • http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

    Some people live in a fantasy world of fear. The zombies are coming – run. Wait a minute, if we erect a flag, the zombies will run away.

  • DC

    Here’s the new extended remix which I have now called ’50 Electoral Forms’, the extended mix has Eminem and other famous rappers almost as famous as Jamie himself.

    So here’s some more Jamie: 50 Electoral Forms and 50 mates and Jelly Kerry is finished.

  • carl marks

    Jamie, yet another saviour of unionism seen it all before, it’s easy to play to the mob everybody cheers when you make the” I’m not afraid to stand up to them” speeches, wave a flag and tell the mob that things will change .
    Then all of a sudden when you actually get elected (Jamie hasn’t a hope by the way) you find out that it’s not that simple, if one of this bunch gets to the city Hall they discover that they have to work with the other side, just waving a flag and abusing people doesn’t work.
    Righteous indignation and a belief in your god given right to rule doesn’t work; votes and seats are what counts.
    Jamie will be another let down, a little while later we will have another saviour the process will repeat itself; the law of diminishing returns has kicked in, each time the mob will be smaller the saviour more irrelevant till the whole thing disappears up its own flagpole.
    Bit sad really.

  • carl marks

    DC
    So here’s some more Jamie: 50 Electoral Forms and 50 mates and Jelly Kerry is finished.
    as my old maths teacher used to say.
    “show me you work please”

  • DC

    It’s all been done before, it’s all old school.

  • carl marks

    DC
    It’s all been done before, it’s all old school.

    just show me please, you see i dont think the sums add up and to be honest you have a habit of making claims and not backing them up (a bit like Jamie) and if so old school putting me in my place should be easy.
    Heres what i think you mean
    1000 protesters X 50 friends (assuming each has 50 friends who are not friends with any other protester which is unlikely)
    Each one of these 50 friends are loyalists (why are they not at the protests)
    = 50,000 votes. Is that the math you are depending on i have to tell you it isn’t going to win any elections and don’t bother buying a display case for your Nobel Prize in maths.

  • Rory Carr

    See Jamie, he’s got it well sussed out, so he has. See that fleg up ‘ere, see.. well, no, I know yez don’t actually see it, if yez see what I mean, it not actually being up there, like. But see this:

    I promise each and every single one of youse, see by the time of the next election, whenever it will be, but some day, whenever it is, during my lifetime, it’s gonna fly again that’s why…” (from about 2:20 in)

    I can hardly wait.

    With leaders like this I don’t see how they can fail.

  • carl marks

    DC
    Just watched your link the whole way through, if that is the leader who will save the union then a United Ireland is a lot closer than I thought.
    The British Legion (you know the people who actually joined the military and fought for Britain) thinks he’s toxic. He writes really bad books (seen a few excerpts clichés or what) and has an ego bigger than the Ulster he wants to save. He seems to have learnt his politics from the Dandy bumper book of stuff.
    If that is the best that loyalists can produce I suggest you prepare yourself for some bad news and start stacking up on the Euros because the local shops won’t be taken pounds soon!

  • DC

    50 Electoral Forms is the musical counterpart to his book 50 Shades.

  • babyface finlayson

    RoryCarr
    It’s clever how you make fun of the way he speaks.

  • carl marks

    DC (profile)
    20 January 2013 at 1:52 pm

    50 Electoral Forms is the musical counterpart to his book 50 Shades.

    so he advertising his “book” and not adressing a raly to save ulster.
    the man is the gift that keeps on giving!
    babyface finlayson (profile)
    20 January 2013 at 1:52 pm

    RoryCarr
    It’s clever how you make fun of the way he speaks.

    Let’s face it the man is more than a bit embarrassing only a lost cause could put him forward as a leader, someone who is coherent would be a better choice, but I suspect he’s the best you have got, like I say a UI is closer than I thought.

  • Neil

    It’s clever how you make fun of the way he speaks.

    He was making fun of what he said not how he speaks. If he had been poking fun at the way he speaks he’d have replaced the letters ‘r’ with ‘w’, and possibly referenced Porky Pig and helium.

  • Rory Carr

    Were you not aware, Babyface, that imitation is considered to be “the most sincere form of flattery?

    Or, to put it in Jamiespeak, “See imitation, it’s kinda flattering, so it tis.”

  • babyface finlayson

    Neil
    “He was making fun of what he said not how he speaks. ”
    O really?
    See I think yez r wrong there, so I do.
    carl marks
    I suspect he’s the best you have got”
    I’ve not got him.
    Rory
    “imitation is considered to be “the most sincere form of flattery?”
    And mockin’s catchin’.
    I know his lack of erudition makes him an easy target for smart guys like yourselves,but it’s very lazy.
    Just trying to raise the level of debate.

  • carl marks

    babyface finlayson
    Just trying to raise the level of debate

    That is what we have been trying to do. However I refer you to DC’s many posts.
    Now in the interest of raising the level of debate answer me these two questions,
    1/ how can a group called the united protestant voice get the flag back up considering that since Catholics are now in the majority in Belfast and need to be persuaded to support the return of the flag how does a group with such a sectarian title even hope to get the cooperation they need.
    2/where does the mandate of this strange little man come from, who voted for him, what party does he represent, what other policies does he have, what sort of fool starts a group (UPV) that does not have a hope in hell of forming a majority and then tries to dictate what is going to happen in BCC.
    Maybe you could enlighten us as to how a group that seems to change leadership (where’s Willie) at a moment’s notice will ever be any more than a joke.
    Over to you.

  • carl marks

    babyface finlayson
    “carl marks
    I suspect he’s the best you have got”
    I’ve not got him.”

    I was of course referring to loyalists in general! Really if we have to explain every sentence to you then it’s a bit cheeky of you to claim to be raising the level of debate. :-0

  • babyface finlayson

    carl marks
    “I was of course referring to loyalists in general! Really if we have to explain every sentence to you then it’s a bit cheeky of you to claim to be raising the level of debate. :-0″
    And I guess I have to explain to you that when I say ;
    “I’ve not got him”
    I mean I’m not a loyalist, nor even a unionist, so I do not support what he says, nor the behaviour of this group.
    I can’t answer your questions about their aims or mandate.
    I simply don’t think it’s big and clever, or useful, to mock his mode of speech (‘porky pie and helium..nice stuff Neil) and his bad grammar.
    There is plenty in what he says and the actions of his group to condemn, without such elitist nonsense.

  • Sp12

    Hello Loyalists!
    See your man?
    Now back to me!
    See your man.
    Now see me.
    Sadly he isn’t me.
    But if he stopped voting alliance he could look like me.
    Now look down, now look up at the fleg pole.
    Where are you? You’re on a protest with the man your man could smell like.
    What’s that in my hand?
    It’s that thing you want! A fleg.
    Now it’s a hundred flegs!
    Anything is possible when your man smells like Old Spide and not a lady!
    Old Spide!

    I’m on a horse.

  • carl marks

    babyface finlayson
    I think we are all still waiting for you to, “Just trying to raise the level of debate”
    any time now will do.

  • babyface finlayson

    carl marks
    I would but Sp12 beat me to it. How could anyone follow that.:~)

  • carl marks

    babyface finlayson
    ah now i see what you mean by “Just trying to raise the level of debate”

    any adults out there?