A new IRA emerges lashed together from the wreckage of the old…

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The big news of the weekend? The convergence of a wide range of republican paramilitary groups into a new one called, erm, the IRA…

So it hasn’t gone away you know… That’s the PR of it anyway. I suppose one might be tempted to say that it took them long enough to decide that the current spilts were killing any ‘credibility’ they might have had at representing a coherent idea never mind anything else.

What it proves is that you cannot legislate any anti state actor out of existence by merely saying it doesn’t exist any more… The IRA that ceased to operate after the 2007 St Andrews deal was only one of several incarnations of that organisation…

Now there’s another one….

How do we know they are the IRA? Well, simply because they say they are. That’s all that’s required, along with the commensurate belief in the moral efficacy of the ‘Armed Struggle’.

That’s all the Provisionals had when they rested the name off the Official IRA (the term ‘Official’ quickly becoming a term for a complacent status quo)…

So is it more dangerous than it was before? Well potentially, yes.

Pooling of resources should bring them more materiel and experience, not least in Derry where the latest recruits to the dissident cause where the most recent defectors from the Provisionals.

But they also have a problem that their Provisional predecessors did not have. There is no longer a maximal greivance amongst the wider Catholic population. For all its innumerable faults, the Stormont settlement has guaranteed nationalist represenation in the highest office.

These may be meaningless trifles to the various republican organisations that reject the Belfast and St Andrews Agreements on the basis that they provide no resolution to the ongoing ‘national problem’ but, along with fair employment legislation that’s been in train for nearly forty years they’ve helped to depopularise the ‘direct route’ to a united Ireland.

And that’s not to mention a list of names of the dead in which civilians far outnumber Republican volunteers; for which reason there is no wider appetite for armed revolution. Intended or not, salvation for the modern armed Republican has lain in the death of others than in the kind of self sacrifice of Pearse had in mind..

Sinn Fein (and the Provisionals) made a timely jump from a sinking ship for the calmer (and in Northern Ireland at least for now, more predictable) waters of constitutional politics. It remains to be seen what these dissident groups can make of the various bits of the wreckage.

But it is highly unlikely that they will ever again have the opportunities presented by the widespread social unrest of 1969/70. And it will be at least another generation before people forget the living hell of having (at least) two armies playing cat and mouse through the front and back yard doors of whole communities.

And critically, at the heart of this deal is the tying together the fates of the two former extremes. As result, Loyalism is not in the perpetual state of agitation and paranoia it was in the 50s and 60s.

Nor are the vast majority of Catholics in the Republican heartland (never mind the new Catholic middle classes whose kids now got to BRA and Methody as much St Pats and St Malachy’s)…

Some people may never abandon the hope of a glorious revolution that unites the island of Ireland… But they face (though more likely they will continue to ignore) the ultimate dilemma of non constitutional Irish Republicanism that in order to do so they inevitably kill Tone’s governing idea of building a Republic for Protestant, Catholic and Dissenter.

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  • http://nicentreright.wordpress.com/ Seymour Major

    Some will be alarmed at this news but if you think about it, it is a response to the counter-terrorist successes of the security forces. It should be welcomed as a sign that the security forces are doing very well.

  • galloglaigh

    Seymour Major

    In my opinion, the only people who benefit from this, is the security forces. I know people in Derry believe that the leader of RAAD is a Stakeknife. People have thought that for years. Not to go into detail, the man has escaped many a crime. One being a robbery on a security van a few years ago. It makes me wonder: Are the security forces driving a new (old) agenda? History shows us they are capable and willing to do so!

  • The Lodger

    This amalgamation should present the security forces with excellent opportunities for intelligence gathering with the cross contamination of informers etc.

    Have they made a command decision on how to dispose of their poo in Maghaberry yet? Will this new IRA be wall decorators or will they go for the tipping out on the landing option?

    The minutes of that meeting should be interesting.

  • ArdoyneUnionist

    Seymour, we here in the smaller PUL part of Ardoyne, find this statement very worrying.

    The rioting while not as intense as previous years, the fact that yet again republicans were out shooting at the police, not with hand guns as in previous years but with an assault rifle. Marks an escalation and puts down a marker that the intent is there.

    Add to that the rhetoric from the Republican part of Ardoyne in media reports and on line, and it is getting very worrying.

    My fear is that isolated PUL areas like ours, and as evidenced by the events at Westland road, will be attacked and this will draw in Loyalist paramilitaries.

    My plea would be for the PUL community to let the PSNI, and MI5 deal with the situation.

    As always there always seems to be a ready stream of young republican terrorist fodder, willing to be used by the IRA and now its older former provisional’s.

    Who will no doubt sit back with their bomb making and ambush skills and direct the idealistic young republicans into more prison cells and graves.

    I feel that is why republicans in Ardoyne always need raise as much tension over the lawful Loyal Order parades that pass the shared part of the Crumlin road.

    This raising of un-necessary tension gives the young republicans (who I feel have been abandoned by Sinn Fein) an issue they can feed off and move onto more serious terrorist crime.

    It should not be forgotten that Gerry Adams said at a shinner party conference, (I paraphrase) the parades issue did not happen by its self or over night.

    Now these same sectarian and bigoted tactics that the shinners employed are being replicated by other republican terrorist groups. To bring more misery and destruction to the country.

  • tuatha

    Young bucks, fed on tales of their elders, will always want their “whiff of cordite” and always there will be the cynical, the sinister and the simply evil willing to enable them for their entirely separate ends.
    Ramped up without a clue.

  • Better Together

    Mick is of course right in saying that the IRA is more of an idea than a specific organisation tied to space and time. Having said that, the necessity is to kill the ideal at root- this involves challenging the instances of romanticisation that take place in places such as Galbally GAA Club and at the Cultural Centre in South Armagh. The fact is that there is no moral difference between the Provisionals and these new groupings, only a tactical one.

    The problem is that SF will never admit the IRA campaign was unjustified, so the only alternative is to ensure that public space is not used for any further sanitisation of the terror campaign. That includes looking at funding/procurement rules etc. Power-sharing with Republicans was conditional in that it stressed the Mitchell principles- these principles cannot be undermined by the back door.

  • Jimmy Sands

    Has anyone ever considered trying to register it as a trade mark? Could be some fun to be had.

  • andnowwhat

    At least, this should cut down on the amount of graffiti.

  • Fergie Pie

    As Better Together has said above, when these children are being brought up to aspire to be Mairead Farrell or Bobby Sands and being told to respect sectarian serial killers in their community like Brendan McFarlane and Harry Maguire it’s obvious they are going to be tempted to follow the same path.

    Only when Provisional Sinn Fein admit their campaign was wrong, doomed to fail and a waste of tens of thousands of lives (dead and imprisoned) will these young Nationalist men realise they are better off not joining these dissident gangs.

  • ArdoyneUnionist

    Better Together, what you said is all correct, add to that the singing of their melancholy songs and hero worshiping dead prisoners, that does not send out a positive message. Another thing that needs to be considered. There seems to be a hierarchical system when it comes to the handing out of shinner jobs.

    Obviously there are not enough special advisers’ jobs to go around; they go to the better off connected provo (I wonder if this were some of the problems lie).

    It’s the more mundane jobs, like community worker, election worker, prisoner’s aid worker and videographer. That unless you are again part of the well connected and not a decenting voice. You get passed by, ignored and therefore left to fester on the fringes and marginalized.

    This on the back of being told that you had won the war and you would be looked after, and all you had to do is continue to vote Sinn Fein.

    Well they continued to vote Sinn Fein and where are they now. Festering on the fringes, marginalized, listening to old shinner speeches about how they won, and listening those lamentable melancholy songs, hero worshiping dead prisoners.

  • mollymooly

    “Has anyone ever considered trying to register it as a trade mark? Could be some fun to be had.” The Irish Defence Forces are Óglaigh na hÉireann; prosecution in the republic are not for membership of the Irish Republican Army but for “an organisation styling itself the Irish Republican Army, otherwise Óglaigh na hÉireann, otherwise the IRA”. If there were a sewing circle with the name it would be a crime to be a member. Not sure it has to use all three names or just any one; the Irish Roads Authority might be in trouble.

    BTW spelling: the Officials rested the name. The Provos wrested it

  • Brian

    There was only one IRA, and it wasn’t the Provos and it certainly wasn’t these jokers.

    Hijacking the name and symbolism is pathetic and offensive, just as pathetic as it was when the Provos did it. (And maybe when the UVF did the same during the troubles?)

    On the plus side, methinks this will make it easier for the security forces to control and monitor these deluded souls.

  • Barnshee

    There they go the Armalite in one hand and the (British) giro in the other

  • http://diaryarticles.blogspot.com/ articles

    Somebody a long time ago recognised that an organised minority was a potential threat to any democracy. I’m not sure what the thresholds are, but nowadays much of the necessary resource whether military or non military is available to anybody even on a budget. So one man and his dog can wreak havoc. Twenty more so . By and large they can say and do what they want. Democracy allows them to do so and escape the consequences, not because there is no law and order but because there is law and order. And because the threat is quintessentially anti democratic they have to constantly reinvent themselves and others. Misrepresentation could be said to be at the heart of everything they do, from the magnification of their own strength to their rationalisation of a fascist cause .

    We know that they would rather be bombing the Olympics, that’s what terrorists do. I very much hope it’s true that the best they could do was coincide an announcement on convergence.

  • Drumlins Rock

    Looking at it coldly, mergers in any path of life have advantages and disadvantages, sometimes they can work well because the original groups were in seperate geographic areas, or had complimentary assets, or where they were figting each other rather than common rivals, for any other these reasons a stronger organisation can appear.

    On the other hand mergers usually invole a degree of wastage on the edges of either group, as well as a demotion of a significant section of senior members, either of which could take their experience elsewhere. Mergers can also be a cover for one of the parties to essentially winding up operations in a simple fashions, salvaging some of their assets.

    I’m not sure which of these pro- and anti- factors came into play, and unless you know its hard to judge the impact of this announcment. Personally I think its slightly more likely to be a sign of weakness rather than strength, they are not groups that easilly form alliances unless under severe pressure.

  • http://diaryarticles.blogspot.com/ articles

    One could also suggest misvhievously that there will be redundancies in MI5, no use double manning a job when resources are scarce.

  • JoeBryce

    Mick is absolutely right. The only sort of Ireland this sort of atavism could ever construct would be (at best) de Valeran dancing leprechauns, a throwback to the 50’s. Ireland 26 doesn’t want that any more, let alone Ireland 6. What irridentism can achieve is a permanent block on further positive political change. Maybe that’s our fate; maybe the GFA is a final settlement, after all. Personally I have come to think that would be sad, but it is the inevitable result of any further horrors. In peace, all is possible, especially as wider relations in these islands continue to evolve. God spare us more decades of permafrost.

  • aquifer

    So these guys hope, by armed blackmail and by promoting sectarian conflict, to persuade the Brits to hand the North over, and at the same time, the republic to take it over, complete with lots of very angry protestants and others. And how many true Irish nationalists would accept this stolen & bloodied booty?

    And all this after 9/11, when big powerful states have a limited tolerance for narcissistic armed cults, and lots of interesting surveillance techniques.

    Though as Jeremy Clarkson says, guns are fun. For those at the trigger end at least. There must be money driving this too. Stolen fuel tax, stolen fags and booze tax, counterfeit celebrity knick-knacks, video games.

    On balance I am not convinced that this is going anywhere except the slammer. If people like to drink tea watch TV and smell each other’s farts all day that is their business, but they should not be killing people to get to do it.

  • Donal Davoren

    “I know people in Derry believe that the leader of RAAD is a Stakeknife. People have thought that for years.”

    What galloglaigh said is correct and many do believe it. RAAD seem immune from any sort of harassment never mind arrest when others are being put away on the flimsiest of evidence, Marion Price being one such example. The other groups they are coming together with have to be completely blind not to see this.

    There is something dirty afoot, maybe there are people who believe that the peace process is better served with a limited amount of violence which keeps people in fear of a return to the past?

  • aquifer

    “There is something dirty afoot”

    Dirtier than futile sectarian slaughter or subverting the clearly expressed will of the people of Ireland?

    Surely not

  • ArdoyneUnionist

    Are the natives getting restless.

    Attack on PSNI vehicle in west Belfast was ‘attempt to kill police’

    The police have said that a gun attack one of their vehicles in west Belfast was an attempt to kill officers.

    A shot hit a PSNI vehicle on the Glen Road at about 04:00 BST on Friday, but the police have only just released details of the attack.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19057027

  • Toastedpuffin

    Clearly all is not well in the Republican community, but I wonder how a high-intersity campaign could be run in today’s technology-swamped society?

  • aquifer

    Public reactions to a renewed campaign may coalesce quicker. Flash mobs with mobile phones and GPS could disrupt republican death fests in ways that were not available before. Past peace actions were stodgy affairs.

    In the same way as the civil rights movement flushed out the sectarian and oppressive character of the old Stormont regime, the violent and anti-democratic nature of armed separatistism could be exposed by expressed public opposition. i.e. The ‘RA and the rest would not be showing PSNI-style restraint when confronted by peace protestors, leaving them liable to immediate legal suppression.

    People may not want their hopes and ambitions interned by these sectarian hoodlums. armed or not.

  • http://ardoynerepublican.blogspot.com/ ArdEoin Republican

    The announcement of a new IRA has been on the cards for sometime and I’m surprised it hasn’t sooner. Historically speaking, the fact that Partition, Unionist Veto over Irish National Self-Determination, British Crown Forces and Political Policing remain in Ireland – the existence of organised Republicans opposed to the above is inevitable.

    I would much prefer if Republicans would resist the above politically and do their upmost to pursue their aims in a peaceful but radical way.

    However, those who make up the new IRA have chosen armed actions as the way forward. Which is not surprising given the way the British Government have treated the Irish people over the centuries.

    Those who negotiated the GFA, St. Andrews and Hillsborough Agreements only postponed a return to Conflict on this island because they did NOT address the root causes.

    The only viable alternative to armed actions is that the British Government set a date to leave this country once and for all and leave the Irish people as a whole to decide the future. Anything less only puts a sticky plaster over the historic disagreements and Conflict.

  • antamadan

    I think unionism can do a lot more to stop the dissedents getting new recruits if it really wants to . Blanket union jacks for the summer in mixed towns is a big recruiter. Are they down in Enniskillen yet?

  • Mister_Joe

    AR,

    The issue for most of the insurrection over the centuries was landrights. The reason for the widespread discontent starting in the late 60s was inequality of opportunity and that was being addressed successfully by purely political and non-violent action.
    Both “root causes” have now been addressed to the satisfaction of the vast majority of people. There was no cause for violence after the Dail accepted the Treaty.

  • Drumlins Rock

    “leave the Irish people as a whole to decide the future”

    The Irish People as a whole decided on the future on 23rd May 1998, when they voted by well over 80% in favour of the good friday agreement ( even if all non voters had of voted no it still would have had a majority ). There has been no indication of a reversal of that figure, in fact it is probably well over 90% now. Can you give us some indication that even anytihng other than a miniscule criminal ridden minority want armed struggle?

  • Jimmy Sands

    I would much prefer if Republicans would resist the above politically and do their upmost to pursue their aims in a peaceful but radical way. ,

    No you wouldn’t.

  • Manfarang

    New century-new approach.
    These young people are clearly suffering from depression.
    Grab those who are rioting sign a section order and then give treatment.Remember One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest.Believe me a mental hospital is much worse than a jail.This will cure all the lunacy of the IRA and any other paramilitaries.

  • Tomas Gorman

    “Are the natives getting restless.”

    The proof of the unionist mindset is clear in this pudding.

  • Reader

    Tomas Gorman: The proof of the unionist mindset is clear in this pudding.
    It was a bit of a cliché. So I’m not sure it was particularly revealing.
    But if AU thinks it is a metaphor, and if you think it is literally true, it may say more about *your* mindset.

  • DoppiaVu

    @Jimmy Sands

    Well said.

  • The Lodger

    “I would much prefer if Republicans would resist the above politically and do their upmost to pursue their aims in a peaceful but radical way.”

    Dead on.

    “The only viable alternative to armed actions is that the British Government set a date to leave this country once and for all and leave the Irish people as a whole to decide the future.”

    And what of the unionists? Are they expected simply to meekly fall into line?

    The consistent failure of nationalism down through the decades has been to ignore the unionists or simply to wish them away. Even Redmond did it. The unionists have been the rock on which all republican efforts have foundered yet even today republicans do not deem them worthy of consideration.

    Moronic.

  • tacapall

    “There is no longer a maximal greivance amongst the wider Catholic population. For all its innumerable faults, the Stormont settlement has guaranteed nationalist represenation in the highest office”

    Is there real equality within the two traditions of British and Irish in this part of Ireland. Can citizens who consider themselves Irish freely express their Irishness in the six counties, although nationalists do have representation in the highest office what has Sinn fein or the SDLP achieved that would make Joe/Jane Bloggs from the Falls Road feel his/her aspirations or visions for a future society are being treated as equal as his brothers/sisters aspirations or visions from the Shankill Road.

    There are no British soldiers on the streets anymore and the PSNI and British government although are writing their own rules in the justice system they are however more placid in their approach to community disorder when faced with it, but that could change with a fatality from a plastic bullet or a return of fire from the security forces. The PSNI are very vulnerable in Nationalist areas and without Sinn Fein would suffer casualties its up to Unionism to reach the hand of help out especially the Orange Order by avoiding that conflict, take the purpose away by compromising on contentious parades, keep 11th bonfires away from flashpoint areas.

  • sonofstrongbow

    Even in 2012, 100 years after the signing of the Ulster Covenant, Irish nationalists are unable to understand that the “British presence” in Northern Ireland is the unionist majority.

    Countless attempts to murder them into a ‘united’ Ireland have failed, as will this latest DIY murder gang.

    It has already been argued, unsurprisingly, that it’s the unionists’ fault. If only unionists didn’t put up flags, walk in the Orange order, breath in good Irish air (?), etc all would be fine. Nonsense of course.

    As has been said the problem, perhaps the psychosis of the attraction to violence, is within the Nationalist community itself. To laud those who used violence in the recent past, to ‘regret’ specific events, Claudy springs to mind, yet not to even question the campaign of violence in its entirety simply provides a fertile environment for today’s violence junkies to prosper.

    Sadly I don’t see that approach being changed. At best all that will be heard is ‘things’ are ‘different’ nowadays. The ‘British presence’ that ‘justified’ La Mon, Teebane and Enniskillen does not mean that the ‘British presence’ ‘justifies’ Masereene, Lurgan or Omagh.

    That weak message will not wash. It only gives succour to the recycled IRA.

  • http://ardoynerepublican.blogspot.com/ ArdEoin Republican

    @ Jimmy Sands & DoppiaVu;

    Why would I publicly state that I’d prefer if all Republicans including those wedded to Armed actions should pursue their objectives in a peaceful and radical way if I didn’t mean it?

    How would you possibly know about me as an Irish Republican would know or wish to see take place? That’s the problem with this place, so many experts who don’t know what they’re on about!

    There are many like me who don’t support Sinn Féin’s strategy but that doesn’t automatically mean that I support armed actions. Historically speaking, I understand them but as a Political Activist my job is to convince them and others that there is a peaceful but radical way to achieve a 32 County Socialist Irish Republic.

  • carnmoney.guy

    Much of these threads make me feel uneasy . .

    To rely on the oxymoron of British intelligence to protect us is worrying – we live in a society where there are hundreds of workers beavering away in MI5 Holywood, yet a mile or so away our ‘government’ hasnt the foggest what they are up to. Who do they account to?

    To underestimate your enemy is one of the biggest mistakes in any conflict. That they are riddled with informers is only beneficial if they are not double agents, feeding their handlers what they want to hear.

    The gathering at Ballyconnell in support of the gangster Sean Quinn should be a wake-up call to all in government both North & South.
    At a time when the institutions of Government are so badly thought of – the politicians, bankers, the judiciary – a single person gets such a show of support.

    Look at how the dissident republicans are using the conditions in prisons, the Marion Price situation or others to milk public support. They are tapping into a public mood in Nationalist areas where there are is the impression of no change.

  • DoppiaVu

    @ ArdEoin Republican

    “Why would I publicly state that I’d prefer if all Republicans including those wedded to Armed actions should pursue their objectives in a peaceful and radical way if I didn’t mean it?”

    Ach isn’t that lovely. It doesn’t sit too well with this though:

    “The only viable alternative to armed actions is that the British Government set a date to leave this country…”

  • Jimmy Sands

    Historically speaking, I understand them but as a Political Activist my job is to convince them and others that there is a peaceful but radical way to achieve a 32 County Socialist Irish Republic.

    And how’s that coming along?

  • Mick Fealty

    Jimmy, beeehave!

  • sonofstrongbow

    And there you have it. Nationalist ‘support’ for the present dispensation, seemingly as always, teeters on the edge of the precipice of violence.

    Should criminals go to prison – violence to follow. Should a police officer return fire at a gunman – violence to follow. Should a petrol-bomber or breezeblock tosser get whacked with a baton round – violence to follow. Should a Prod don a bowler hat – violence to follow.

    With such a sensitive community in our midst it is impossible to live day-to-day without giving some ‘offence’ to the wee souls. As they ‘regretfully’ reach for their AK47s, bewildered as we may be as to the nature of our latest transgression, we can but chastise ourselves for having ‘forced’ them to murder, again.

  • Reader

    Jimmy Sands: And how’s that coming along?
    The occasional taunt is all very well, but I’m always prepared to give a bit of slack to people committed to peaceful means, however wrong they are. There are a number of conflicting political projects that benefit from peace. That seems like a contradiction, but it isn’t really. The alternative to peace is just going around in unpleasant circles for a few more years until we get another chance – everybody loses.
    TG may feel that pure republicanism can win the arguments on its own merits given a bit of space. The Shinners and the civic unionists will not agree…

  • http://garibaldy.wordpress.com Garibaldy

    Sonofstrongbow,

    Of course the people you are referring to don’t support the present dispensation, so your point is based on a totally false premise.

  • Jimmy Sands

    Mick, seriously?

    I’m always prepared to give a bit of slack to people committed to peaceful means,

    Did you have anyone in mind?

  • sonofstrongbow

    Garibaldy,

    You are a tad unfair. There are many within the Nationalist community who support the status quo. However too much of that support is given grudgingly and comes with caveats that appear at the merest hint of a perceived slight to their culture or aspirations..

  • Brian

    “The consistent failure of nationalism down through the decades has been to ignore the unionists or simply to wish them away. Even Redmond did it. The unionists have been the rock on which all republican efforts have foundered yet even today republicans do not deem them worthy of consideration.”

    I don’t think that is fair to Redmond. He was willing to go a long way to accomodate unionists, eventually agreeing with them (after their rebellion to the King’s writ) to a kind of “home rule within home rule”. Once he saw Carson and his armies weren’t bluffing about shedding blood to stop Home Rule, he tried to find a compromise to avoid bloodshed (although did he have a choice?).

    Then War broke out, and he became the British Empire’s star recruiter in Ireland, and that was that for Redmond.

  • Brian

    “And there you have it. Nationalist ‘support’ for the present dispensation, seemingly as always, teeters on the edge of the precipice of violence.”

    Give it a rest. A very small minority within a small minority ‘teeter on the edge of the precipice of violence”. I suspect the intelligence services have them pretty much under wraps. They are the ultimate dead enders.

  • Brian

    “As has been said the problem, perhaps the psychosis of the attraction to violence, is within the Nationalist community itself. To laud those who used violence in the recent past, to ‘regret’ specific events, Claudy springs to mind, yet not to even question the campaign of violence in its entirety simply provides a fertile environment for today’s violence junkies to prosper.”

    The majority of Nationalists didn’t support violence then or now. They (like at Claudy) were often victims of the PIRA.

  • The Lodger

    “I don’t think that is fair to Redmond. He was willing to go a long way to accomodate unionists”

    Brian,

    When the British government agreed to Home Rule they also intended to continue to have Irish representation at Westminster, so that unionists could continue to have a link with the rest of the UK, but Redmond would have none of it. Thereby convincing the unionists that Home Rule was merely a prelude to trundling them into an Independent Ireland. When you look at the way the Free State/ROI turned out they were absolutely correct to be concerned.

  • The Lodger

    “The majority of Nationalists didn’t support violence then or now. ”

    Brian,

    They tend to be ambivalent about the people who carried it out though. Indeed they even vote for them these days.

  • galloglaigh

    I understand them… my job is to convince them and others that there is a peaceful but radical way to achieve a 32 County Socialist Irish Republic

    I’ve come to the conclusion that Redmond, Parnell, and O’Connell where right to seek reform for Ireland at Westminster. Our MP’s in my view should look at ending abstention in London. Fair enough Sinn Féin do use aspects of that political system, maybe for their own benefit perhaps. But now the time is right to use the weakness of the British political system, to bolster support within Westminster for more concessions in Ireland. Or at least to join with our unionist MP’s to shore up Norn Iron’s shout for some more of the golden challis…

    A bit of filibustering from the likes of Barry McElduff in Westminster might brighten it up in to the bargain. Could you imagine Barry telling the English MP’s about how well Carrickmore did at the weekend!

  • galloglaigh

    When you look at the way the Free State/ROI turned out they were absolutely correct to be concerned… They tend to be ambivalent about the people who carried it out though. Indeed they even vote for them these days…

    When you look at the way Norn Iron turned out etc. etc…

  • http://ardoynerepublican.blogspot.com/ ArdEoin Republican

    @ Jimmy Sands;

    Most Dissenting Republicans in the Six Counties are actively involved in promoting politics and remberence through a number of organisations including, the IRSP, RSF, Eirigi, RNU and the 1916 Societies. So I’d say my theory and pratice is going quite well…..

    Yes, there are a number of armed groups out there and in my opinion there will be these groups so long as Irish National Sovereignty is denied and partition remains.

    The only way to remove violence once and for all is to remove the root causes which have caused conflict for centuries. In the meantime, Republicans involved in the political groups and Parties above to address the conflict in a meaningful and peaceful way.

    Obviously, there are many out there who disagree with idealogy and that’s sound but it is a legitimate one and one that needs heard.

  • The Lodger

    “A bit of filibustering from the likes of Barry McElduff in Westminster”

    Would he bothering with the getting elected bit first at all? Isn’t he enough of a laughing stock where he is?

  • Jimmy Sands

    On Inside Politics on Sunday I talked to the Republican Network for Unity’s Martin Og Meehan. The former IRA prisoner told me his network doesn’t support armed struggle. Nevertheless, he would not condemn the activities of dissident groups like Oglaigh na hEirrean. Last year the RNU’s Ard Fheis sent what it called “comradely greetings” to Oglaigh na hEirrean and backed the right of the Irish people to engage in what it terms “disciplined resistance”. The network has represented some dissident republican prisoners in the current dirty protest at Maghaberry jail and was behind last month’s daubing of excrement on the doors of the Alliance party’s headquarters in south Belfast. Mr Meehan said he was in favour of dialogue, arguing that a refusal to talk only leads to anarchy. But he seemed to give little sense that the dissidents are ready to change their analysis. Instead he made frequent references to 800 years of Irish history and the inevitability of armed attacks. When I pointed out that the vast majority of people have made it clear they want politics to be purely peaceful, the RNU spokesman at one point referred to those who held that view as “sheep”.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16462230

  • tacapall

    After reading some of the comments on this thread it would lead one to think the last 40 years of conflict was all a one sided affair, there was no such thing as loyalist violence when Orangemen could not walk where they wanted, nor did they shoot or throw bombs at the RUC and British army or that nationalists were not murdered by loyalists with guns supplied by the RUC. Do Unionists and loyalists really believe they can erased or somehow deny their part in not only creating the conditions for the violence but were actively involved in promoting it with Unionist politicians and members of the Orange order rolling the snowballs for loyalist sheep to throw.

    The reality is without agreement between sane people on both sides those who hanker for the past will get their way, FFS unionists feel its an insult for people to wear green shamrock in belfast’s St patricks day parade never mind a tricolor, why is marching back up a road worth some innocent life.

  • carl marks

    If you think you will get anywhere forget it, I have among other things been told that,
    The IRA was defeated at motorman but where too thick to see it.(classic mopery; we beat em fair and square guv but they kept fighting that’s not sporting)
    Both Hesketh and Westland are isolated areas , somehow the large loyalist areas of Upper Crumlin, Silver stream, Ballysillen, Carr’s Glen, Glynnbren, and upper Old park are not connected to them by several Roads and streets.
    And if the language used by some is to be believed these areas are under nightly attack by sectarian gangs, but strangely for such a organised law supporting community they don’t seem to be able to produce any figures(from PSNI ) to back up these claims
    My repeated attempts to get any of them to prove their claims to the high moral ground by condemning the sectarian displays associated with the 12th have been met with silence. Indeed on the odd occasion that they have admitted something offensive done by their side they don’t seem to care if it offends. Forget about loyalist violence seems the rest of us imagined most of that.
    Interestedly ArdEoin Republican’s post’s read very like many of our loyalist contributors same tired old story, just change names and dates and they could almost be interchangeable and IMHO so could their mindsets, this leads us to the big question is what the fuck are we going to do with all these idiots

  • carl marks

    The above post was for, tacapall

  • HeinzGuderian

    It’s a close run thing,decided by a very(very) short head,but todays Mope Gold goes to cal,who beat his fellow Mope tac.

    You have to hand it to them folks,they have the Mopery Market cornered !! ;-)

  • HeinzGuderian

    * We hint,the threads about the alphabet ra……not Unionists/the orange order/Uncle Tom Cobbly,or anything else*

  • tacapall

    Why dont you read the whole thread then sheriff.

  • tacapall

    Carl just gonna have to educate each other, if all things are equal then whatever will be will be.

  • Brian

    “Brian,

    They tend to be ambivalent about the people who carried it out though. Indeed they even vote for them these days.”

    Maybe so. But they werent voting for them until they stopped bombings and killings. And that does not mean they are retroactively supporting violence. And if you extrapolate it to the larger naionalist population on this island, their support/vote is very low, even with disgust of mainstream parties at Weimer Republic levels.

  • Brian

    ArdRepublican”Obviously, there are many out there who disagree with idealogy and that’s sound but it is a legitimate one and one that needs heard.”

    No, it is not a legitimate one. It has been heard and SOUNDLY rejected by the people. Absolutely and utterly rejected. It is nothing more than a strange Cult at this point, a cause for relics, rejects, and the mentally damaged.

    You call yourselves ‘republican’, yet you reject democracy. You reject the express wishes of 99% of your own ‘tribe’. If you are unable to join the rest of us in the 21st century, at least don’t go around bombing and shooting up the place.

  • Jimmy Sands

    If you are unable to join the rest of us in the 21st century, at least don’t go around bombing and shooting up the place.

    He doesn’t get his own hands dirty that way any more. He’ll hold the kids’ coats for them though.

  • http://ardoynerepublican.blogspot.com/ ArdEoin Republican

    @ Brian, the revolutionary republican idealogy is a legitimate one whether U like it or not. Just as I don’t agree with the Unionist idealogy but I respect the view and will argue that it should be respected.

    It is U who rejects democracy, as the vast majority of Irish citizens demand an Irish National democracy. Without that 800 yrs of occupation will continue.

    @ Jimmy Sands I only advocate political activism for young people. Politics doesn’t get anyone’s hands dirty. Maybe your mistaken me for someone else?

  • Jimmy Sands

    Yes I can see from your site the sort of “political activism” you encourage.

  • Mister_Joe

    ..the vast majority of Irish citizens demand an Irish National democracy.

    What does that somewhat confused bland statement mean, exactly? Does the referendum on the GFA mean nothing to you folks? Enough of the “purely political means, nudge nudge wink wink, nonsense.

  • http://ardoynerepublican.blogspot.com/ ArdEoin Republican

    @ Mister Joe, The GFA and its seperate Referenda were NOT a realistic reflection of the peoples wishes chara….

    What is required is one referendum with two questions;

    1. Do you want an end to Partition?

    2. Do you want an end to the British occupation?

    The referendum should be overseen by the UN and NOT by the London Government, because they are NOT neutral.

    Anything less, is a cop out and an untrue reflection…

  • Mister_Joe

    AE, mucker,,

    I bow to your superior knowledge of the wishes of the people.
    Your wisdom and mind reading is superlative and I hope you die seeing the Utopia that the IRA envisions for all of us. We will all be so happy and will go around dancing jigs in the streets and playing the tunes so beloved by you and your pals. Such utter joy there will be. The most perfect State that ever existed.

  • Mister_Joe

    Oh, you forgot to mention the “nudge, nudge, wink, wink” nonsense. No comment?

  • Manfarang

    ArdEoin
    National Democracy? The kind of democracy that existed in the German Democratic Republic or the present day Lao People’s Democratic Republic.
    British withdrawal from Burma didn’t bring peace by the way.
    There has been 60 years of civil war brought about by those who want to impose their ways on everybody regardless of religion or ethnicity.

  • http://ardoynerepublican.blogspot.com/ ArdEoin Republican

    @ Mister Joe,

    The nudges and the winks are for those who enjoy fostering the divisions amongst the Irish working-class, such as the the facist Loyal Orders who for centuries have ensured that secterianism/racism have prevailed in Ireland…..

    Republicans on the other hand, prefer to work towards a unity that encompasses everyone on the island……

    May well be a Utopia alright, but better to work towards that, than the failures of the past chara!.

  • http://ardoynerepublican.blogspot.com/ ArdEoin Republican

    @ Manfarang,

    Are you saying that if there’s a National Irish Democratic Republic, there’ll be a Civil War?

    If so, you are laying the odds on even more conflict in Ireland chara…

    The Republican objective is to follow through and make the 1916 proclamation and the 1919 Declaration of Independance a reality. Not to create a Civil War chara. If you read and analyise both documents you will see that we only want what will give social and economic freedom to all citizens, regardless of creed.

  • HeinzGuderian

    ‘we only want what will give social and economic freedom to all citizens,regardless of creed’……what,even the ‘fascist loyal orders’ ?

    This aul guff was being spouted in the 70’s,when tac and cal were cheer leading the ’cause’.

    Pathetically pathetic !!

  • carl marks

    ArdEoin Republican
    I Have a Idea, why don’t you show us how committed you are to democratic means, If by any chance (unlikely I know) you know anybody involved in the organising the bussing in of every hood, chav, and corner boy they can get their hands on to Ardoyne for rioting on the 12th , tell them not to bother. Next year only have those who live in Ardoyne at your “protest”. The beauty of this is that you will have shown the world how great your support is in Ardoyne,
    You claim some sort of right to speak on behalf of the Irish people, yet you have no mandate, your statements and posts are nothing more than the shit we get from loyalists but with the words changed. Do you all use a website for templates for these utterances and just add the appropriate words in the blanks,
    So how about it next year, you (sorry people you might know) don’t bother inviting the usual scum to Ardoyne let’s see how many of the population of the district support you.

  • carl marks

    HeinzGuderian
    “This aul guff was being spouted in the 70′s,when tac and cal were cheer leading the ’cause’.”
    I know you don’t do “proof” and I’m probably wasting my time asking for it but you got any for this one.

  • HeinzGuderian

    The ‘proof’ is in every line of anti Unionist hatred you write chara…..
    Go back 40 years,and all this aul guff ar is spouting,was being spouted by sf/pira then.

    Change the record….;-)

  • carl marks

    HeinzGuderian
    I see no proof , nowt changed there then.

  • HeinzGuderian

    Same old,same old rhetoric……nowt changed there then…..oops,only now the shinners are administering British Rule.

  • carl marks

    HeinzGuderian
    Oh sorry i nearly missed your proof it is very subtle;

    “The ‘proof’ is in every line of anti Unionist hatred you write chara”

    It’s quite simple, anybody who is not a unionist and has or does point out the wrongs that have been done by unionism is of course a provie who does a jig every time a bomb goes off, you got me.

  • HeinzGuderian

    lol,scraping the bottom now cal.
    As I have already pointed out,this thread is about the Alphabet ira,and their ongoing campaign of murder and mayhem.
    YOU scramble about to somehow bring Unionism into it,instead of tackling the thread topic head on ?

    There is not one poster on Slugger from a Unionist perspective who would support ‘loyalist’ violence…..there are,however,several posters from the nat/rep side of the fence who seek to justify republican violence….and still do so.

    All ar is spouting is exactly what the shinners spouted 40 years ago.
    it was garbage then…..it is garbage now.

    I feel sure you will agree ? ;-)

  • tacapall

    “There is not one poster on Slugger from a Unionist perspective who would support ‘loyalist’ violence”

    And we’ve been hearing that bull…. from unionists for the last 40 years as well Heinzy although when faced with fact and evidence of the opposite we got the old “reactionary violence” line.

  • HeinzGuderian

    Hmmm,talking to cal,and tac pops up.
    Interesting…..very interesting indeed…

    All ar is spouting is exactly what the shinners spouted 40 years ago.
    it was garbage then…..it is garbage now.

    Do YOU agree tac ?

  • HeinzGuderian

    “There is not one poster on Slugger from a Unionist perspective who would support ‘loyalist’ violence”

    Name one……………

  • sonofstrongbow

    Wow! Slugger is 40 years old?

    Evidence will now be produced of the unionist posters on Slugger who support “loyalist” violence?

    Should such evidence be produced I for one will condemn their support for terrorist violence in the same manner as I condemn terrorist violence from Irish Nationalists.

    Oh, and before anyone goes off on one of those ‘it’s the Brits wot done it’ riffs my condemnation extends to police or army members involved in criminality.

  • Drumlins Rock

    AR, do you dispute that the vast majority of the people of Ireland voted in favour of the Good Friday agreement? Can you produce any evidenct that the vote was rigged? Considering the Irish Goverment administered the vote in most of the Island are they also not neutral? what about the legions of international observers, whether NGOs governments or media who were in the country at the time?

    “1. Do you want an end to Partition?

    2. Do you want an end to the British occupation?”

    The people decided and supported

    ” while a substantial section of the people in Northern Ireland share the legitimate wish of a majority of the people of the island of Ireland for a united Ireland, the present wish of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, freely exercised and legitimate, is to maintain the Union and, accordingly, that Northern Ireland’s status as part of the United Kingdom reflects and relies upon that wish; and that it would be wrong to make any change in the status of Northern Ireland save with the consent of a majority of its people”

  • tacapall

    Name one ….

    Heinzy Unionists are like those famous people who say they would never have plastic surgery but they have obviously had loads, of course you know what I mean.

    I wouldn’t say Martin Og was talking garbage its a perfectly genuine and achievable aspiration if its pursued by peaceful means. Personally, if and when all thing become equal between both traditions, then whatever will be will be, I have no problem accepting the will of the people.

  • HeinzGuderian

    ‘And we’ve been hearing that bull…. from unionists for the last 40 years as well Heinzy although when faced with fact and evidence of the opposite we got the old “reactionary violence” line.’

    When asked to name names,our intrepid reporter made his excuses and left……

  • galloglaigh

    Name one……………

    I could post more comments like this if you like?

  • HeinzGuderian

    It’s funny that loyalists wanted rid of the provos, but would retain their own terrorists for a later date. The Orange Order is the central pin to this retention…

    Or this ?

    Pot/kettle/black Monty Python style !!

    ‘Evidence will now be produced of the unionist posters on Slugger who support “loyalist” violence?’

    Not quite,but there was one chap who said he didn’t mind uda recruitment………..???

  • carl marks

    AR
    Drumlins has a very good point,
    Was the referendum not a free and fair vote, was the deal not made, and I thought a central plank of that deal (since they voted for it overwhelmingly) was that the weapon used by both side to settle the problems besetting us was the ballot box,
    Please explain exactly where this New IRA gets its mandate from, please don’t start on about the 1916 uprising, Wolfe Tone, or British Occupation. The first two are long gone and could be claimed by anybody, the brits here well that was dealt with; they leave when the majority wants them to leave, I mightn’t like it but that’s democracy for you.
    As is pointed out in the header the conditions are very different from 1970, and even then the war wasn’t justified, explain to me how it is justified now, Like I say where is your mandate,

  • Barnshee

    “Same old,same old rhetoric……nowt changed there then…..oops,only now the shinners are administering British Rule.”

    Chant the old war cry
    “with an Armalite in one hand and me Giro/Ministerial salary in the other..”

    oh dear dos not sound quite the same

  • HeinzGuderian

    ‘AR
    Drumlins has a very good point,
    Was the referendum not a free and fair vote, was the deal not made, and I thought a central plank of that deal (since they voted for it overwhelmingly) was that the weapon used by both side to settle the problems besetting us was the ballot box,
    Please explain exactly where this New IRA gets its mandate from, please don’t start on about the 1916 uprising, Wolfe Tone, or British Occupation. The first two are long gone and could be claimed by anybody, the brits here well that was dealt with; they leave when the majority wants them to leave, I mightn’t like it but that’s democracy for you.
    As is pointed out in the header the conditions are very different from 1970, and even then the war wasn’t justified, explain to me how it is justified now, Like I say where is your mandate,’

    You got there in the end…..with a little bit of ‘prodding’ ;-)

  • tacapall

    Now heinzy Im surprised at you jumping the gun. Where exactly did I say Slugger posters. I was talking about Unionists like –

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-13191627

  • HeinzGuderian

    “There is not one poster on Slugger from a Unionist perspective who would support ‘loyalist’ violence”

    Name one….

    Need a hand with those goalposts ? ;-)

  • galloglaigh

    Pot/kettle/black Monty Python style

    Indeed, but wouldn’t you agree, that both the pot and the kettle are black. In other words, republicans and loyalists are two of a kind when it comes to the use of violence!

  • tacapall

    HeinzGuderian (profile) 1 August 2012 at 9:51 am

    “There is not one poster on Slugger from a Unionist perspective who would support ‘loyalist’ violence…..there are,however,several posters from the nat/rep side of the fence who seek to justify republican violence….and still do.”

    As opposed to what I said

    “And we’ve been hearing that bull…. from unionists for the last 40 years as well Heinzy although when faced with fact and evidence of the opposite we got the old “reactionary violence” line.”

  • carl marks

    HeinzGuderian
    “You got there in the end…..with a little bit of ‘prodding’”
    if you had actually read my posts you would have realised that is what I have been saying, i also believe that unionists have a large piece of the blame for what Happened, I call that history you call it mopery, your wonderful ability to see the mote in the others mans eye while ignoring the beam in your own, should be a lesson to us all,

    So please try to step beyond the trolling and look at the issues,
    And may i ask that in future when you make accusations about people show your facts ( alas you wanting to believe it is not a fact),
    you represent that section of unionism that goes out of its way to offend and when it succeeds in offending Denys all responsibility for the outcome, you and AR are cut from the one cloth so in future take all posts addressed at him have you in mind also, just change the key words to suit your own agenda

  • HeinzGuderian

    http://sluggerotoole.com/2012/07/30/a-new-ira-emerges-lashed-together-from-the-wreckage-of-the-old/comment-page-2/#comment-1113043

    The only one ‘Triolling’ here are the usual nat/rep suspects.
    I don’t represent any section of the Unionist Community but my own,and I would hope what I type here on Slugger has never lead to some nat/rep feeling the need to murder someone ? To actually think that is utterly preposterous !!
    Ah,no,my posts are merely pointing out the similarity between sf/ira 40 years ago,and ar’s attitude today…..one and the same.
    What you and your buddies can’t stand is anyone pointing out the sheer hypocrisy of condemning alphabet pira today,while supporting pira 40 years ago……simples.

    I asked this a few hours ago,but being a patient chap,I’ll try again……All ar is spouting is exactly what the shinners spouted 40 years ago.
    it was garbage then…..it is garbage now.

    In other words there was absolutely no excuse for an ‘armed struggle’ 40 years ago,as there is absolutely no excuse for it now !!

    Do YOU agree cal ? ;-)