Willie Flags Up An Interesting Question

The ever vocal loyalist campaigner, Willie Frazer, struck an embarrassingly remorseful chord this week after his Tricolour fury was revealed to be a case of misplaced rage.

Having labelled St Patrick’s PS, Donaghmore, as a “junior headquarters of SF/ IRA youth” after believing that he’d seen an Irish Tricolour flying from outside the school, Frazer later retracted his comment once the offending flag was revealed to be the Italian Tricolour of a red not orange hue.

The school principal, Dera Cahalane, indicated that the school had sought legal advice and are bringing the matter of Frazer’s allegation to the PSNI, suggesting that we’ve not heard the last of this matter.

But Willie Frazer has unwittingly raised an interesting issue with regard to the place of flags, emblems and other political commemorations identified with one community or the other within schools.

Last November, unionist politicians weighed in to a row involving the wearing of poppies in a Dundonald school. Then, Unionist MLA David McNarry said the school should be “teaching pupils about why people would want to wear it with pride” whilst the school released a statement saying “Every year Dundonald High school sells hundreds of poppies, making a significant contribution to this worthy appeal. Pupils wear their poppies proudly in all classrooms and every year we have a special assembly for Remembrance Day.”

Subsequently, unionist politicians also got involved  in a row at Banbridge Academy, supporting a petition by some pupils to have the British National Anthem played as part of the school’s Remembrance Day services.

With the British Queen’s Jubilee Celebrations due to commence in the coming weeks, I know of at least one controlled- sector County Antrim primary school which has sent Union Flag-emblazoned leaflets home to parents inviting them to join their children in celebrating the event in the school.

It is not known whether Willie Frazer was- or indeed remains- under the impression that such educational establishments were or are junior headquarters for British state or loyalist paramilitary forces.

Perhaps he will inform us of his opinions on said matters in the days ahead……

Of course, such commemorations and celebrations are merely manifestations of unionism’s political and cultural identity being played out in school settings where the parents and pupils are likely of agreeable minds on such matters.

A couple of years ago, the principal of my own north Belfast-based catholic primary school received a letter from the Orange Order inviting pupils of the school to enter a competition  requiring them to draw pictures of their favourite part of that year’s Loyal Order celebrations.

Clearly the exercise of sending the letter to a catholic school in an area where local loyalists had used the occasion of 11th Night Bonfires to mock the surge in suicides by local catholic male youths was one not conceived of a benevolent mindset, and the letter made its way to the bin with proper haste.

But the continuation of the competition for a period of years indicates that many controlled sector schools (and perhaps others) embraced a competition which doubtlessly would have failed Willie’s shoe on the other foot test.

In which case, are there grounds for unionists like Frazer to complain if schools from the Maintained/ catholic sector actually followed the same course and incorporated explicitly political expressions of the Irish nationalist identity into the school culture?

  • RyanAdams

    First off, Frazer is a political nobody who has been rejected at the Ballot Box more times than I care to count.

    Secondly, IMO no school should be incorporating any form of controversial politics/culture into their environment. Children are far too young to indoctrinated with that carry on. Similarly, should the Orange Order contact my kid’s school and the principal agree to market such a competition I would be at his door.

  • Bangordub

    Chris,
    As a Southerner It always strikes me as obvious that these things are essentially about insecurity. If we reduce them to if’s buts and whatabouteries we merely perpetuate them

  • Chris Donnelly

    Ryan
    But defining what is controversial can be the actual problem. Poppies in Dundonald or Lillies in Derry may not present problems for specific school communities but others on the outside may object.

    Bangordub
    True to a point, but exposing such hypocritical attitudes is surely a part of inching society forward to a place where we reach better understandings of one another.

  • andnowwhat

    I heard Seamus Mc Kee’s interview with Frazer. For a start, he never even saw the flags in person but (upon having received several complaints about the flag) asked for a photo to be sent to him.

    Frazer claimed that he tried to phone the school prior to posting his nonsense on Facebook but said that, astonishingly, he couldn’t get an answer. The flags were up as part of a European (which is odd as one of the flags was the Turkish flag) and Mc Kee asked Willie if he would have stood by his accusation (after all, Ireland is in Europe and the school could have legitimately flew the Irish tricolor had they been part of the project) regarding the school being a training ground for the IRA etc. Frazer replied that he would.

  • andnowwhat

    Here ya’ll go. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01hl978/Evening_Extra_17_05_2012/ The interview is at 52 minutes in.

  • Bangordub

    Chris,
    Frazer is an obvious em ” exception” to normal society. Agree with you about advancing in general though

  • andnowwhat

    What was that issue, in a state school in Derry, about pupils being issued with a leaflet on some political issue? I think it was about the proposed name change back to Derry but I could well be wrong

  • BluesJazz

    Hardly a big deal’
    The Southern Irish tricolour is a foreign flag here in the UK. But so what….
    If people want to fly Turkish flags or Danish, or even the swastika, it’s not illegal.
    Government buildings fly the only true flag.
    If people want to fly swastikas ot trciolours, so what, the United Kingdom is a free country.

  • Drumlins Rock

    Chris,
    I’m sure you will agree with me that Willie’s rant was as stupid and pathetic as a SF councillor objecting to British eggs in Sainbury’s http://sluggerotoole.com/2012/05/06/are-you-serious-redux/ .

    As for the rest of your whataboutery rant, I guess we get used to expecting no better, however can I offer just one correction, the Orange Order has nothing to do with bonfires as has been pointed out numerous times, and I totally fail to see the connection anyways.

  • andnowwhat

    Found it

    “Pupils at a secondary school in Londonderry have been asked to sign a letter opposing moves to change the city’s official name to Derry.
    Parents of pupils at Lisneal College received the letter from the principal, David Funston, a week ago.
    He said he had been asked to distribute an attached letter opposing the name-change which students could sign and forward to Derry City Council.”

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/8262599.stm

  • Bangordub

    Drumlins Rock
    You absolutely prove my point !!! You accuse Chris of whataboutery ranting right after your 1st paragraph. Which, of course is classic whataboutery!
    wtf?

  • andnowwhat

    Drumlin Rocks

    Thing is that the shinner didn’t accuse the egg box of being a training ground for loyalist eggs. Willie put school kids in the frame.

  • Mac

    “I’m sure you will agree with me that Willie’s rant was as stupid and pathetic as a SF councillor objecting to British eggs in Sainbury’s”

    If the shinner had stated that the presence of the union flag made everyone who worked or shopped at Sainsburys members of the UVF, then yes.
    Many of our political representatives get themselves worked up over flags, it’s as old as the troubles themselves.

    The problem here is the labelling of schoolchildren as IRA men in training.

  • andnowwhat

    Primary school kids at that Mac

  • lamhdearg2

    “if schools from the Maintained/ catholic sector actually followed the same course and incorporated explicitly political expressions of the Irish nationalist identity into the school culture?”
    Do they not?

  • lamhdearg2

    ps willie was wrong.

  • Drumlins Rock

    Bangor, exactly that was the point.

    I wouldn’t even attempt to defend Willie Frasers pathetic attack, it was disgusting even if it had of been a tricolour, and I don’t blame the school considering taking further action bth.

    However the tripe that Chris then tries to link to it was just petty whataboutery, point scoring and I thought that a similar response was all it warranted.

  • Hopping The Border

    Listening to that interview I wonder does Willie realise that Italy and Turkey are also foreign countries?

    He seems very aggravated about the possibility that a foreign flag could be flying from the school.

    Then again, intelligence, along with tolerance of other people’s political opinions do not appear to be Willie’s strongest points….

  • andnowwhat

    I’ve long thought that Willie’s use of the term “Catholic extremists” on his website should have got him a day in court under incitement laws.

  • andnowwhat

    In fairness to Willie, you wouldn’t put him up against even CJ de Mooi on Eggheads for the goegraphy questions

    ” See if a Paki comes from India and kills a Provo? I’m going to shake his hand”

  • derrydave

    Poor wille – leave him alone for gods sake, he’s obviously not the full shilling. How anyone in the local press sees his rantings as reportable or in the public interest is beyond me. It says more to me about the lack of professionalism in the local press – or possibly the desperation for a story in an ever more normal society. No sane individual from either section of our society would take Willies nonsense seriously at all – yeah, we have a few loonballs out there, but sure so does every society – the difference appears to be that our press see value in reporting their views occasionally in order to fill their papers. Gives us all a laugh I suppose – bring out the freaks :-)

  • dwatch

    William Fraser may be a political nobody, as I am likewise. However, I don’t know how I would react today if so many members of my own family were murdered by the IRA during the time of the recent troubles.

    Background

    “William Frazer grew up in the village of Whitecross in County Armagh. He is an ex-member of the Territorial Army, and a member of Ian Paisley’s Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster.[3] He attended a local Catholic school. His father, Bertie, who was a member of the British Army’s Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR), was shot dead by the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) on 30 August 1975. Over the next ten years four members of Frazer’s family who were members or ex-members of the police or armed forces were killed by the IRA.[4] An uncle of Frazer’s who was a member of the UDR was also wounded in a gun attack.”
    http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Frazer&sa=U&ei=au65T431E4LG8gOi9uWrCg&ved=0CBUQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGeSuNqWPOHn1k86NFjnFoYep6k6g

  • Mac
  • http://nalil.blogspot.com Nevin

    Chris, I’m colour blind; I’ve difficulty at times differentiating between red and green, never mind red and orange.

    Willie owes the school a personal apology – pupils, teachers and parents – for putting dangerous comments onto Facebook; ditto the BBC and Chris and others for spreading them. The BBC carries much the greatest burden of guilt as it’s transmitting the comments to a much wider audience and therefore greatly exacerbates the risk.

    Members of state agencies have done very bad things but IMO to put, say, the alphabet soup of republican paramilitaries on a par with Ireland’s Óglaigh na hÉireann Chris-style is frankly ludicrous.

    How easy is it for schools and churches to say no to paramilitary groups who wish to promote their groups on school and church premises? Here is an example of such a promotion in neighbouring Coalisland by an East Tyrone paramilitary youth wing. Haven’t rogue laity been much more dangerous to and abusive of children and young people than rogue clergy? Perhaps it’s time society reviewed its priorities.

  • andnowwhat

    Nevin;

    If you have the time, listen to the audio I linked. Failing that, please take note of the comments Frazer made to Seamus Mc Kee that I mentioned in my first post

  • http://nalil.blogspot.com Nevin

    andnowwhat, I listened to the audio before I wrote my post. I probably wouldn’t have known about Willie’s Facebook entry had Chris not written this blog. Perhaps he and others need reminding of the old slogan that ‘careless talk costs lives’.

    I can appreciate the distinctions when unionist and nationalist groupings act collectively in the pan-unionist/nationalist interest but others may not, Willie seemingly being one of them. For example, that Reynolds, Hume and Adams joint handshake will have been interpreted very differently by different strands of the unionist family. I’m usually more interested in what’s going on behind the scenes, in particular who’s speaking with forked-tongue!

  • Professor Yattle

    Another crystal clear demonstration of why Chris Donnelly was dropped by the Belfast Telegraph… and possibly by Sinn Fein.

  • tacapall

    Its not as if Willie hasn’t made exactly the same mistake before and you could forgive a fool but this man is dangerous, his hatred is blinding him and putting others at risk, in this case children he should be sectioned under the mental health act.

  • MonkDeWallyDeHonk

    Dwatch

    “William Fraser may be a political nobody, as I am likewise. However, I don’t know how I would react today if so many members of my own family were murdered by the IRA during the time of the recent troubles”

    Yeah right. Like all right thinking people, I deplore all violence. It’s funny how Frazer is only interested in victims of Republican violence and is happy to make excuses for “Loyalist violence” – see his comment about “Loyalist” prisoners should never have been in prison in the first place re “Loyalist “prisoners being released under the GFA
    quote live on Radio Ulster.

    Likewise – he was turned downed for a firearms licence (twice) by a British Judge – because of his links with “Loyalist” terrorists.

    I was lucky enough to be a friend of the late Paddy McGurk – a decent man who didn’t trade on his loss to (RUC covered up sectarian “Loyalist” terrorism) and didn’t excuse or associate with any Terrorists (unlike your mate Frazer).

    I’m truly sorry for Frazer’s loss but (having lived in England for many years), he’s been exposed for what he is – a bitter hypocrite – only interested in condemning terrorism from “Catholics” but not Protestants – see Radio Ulster.

    Now he’s been exposed for his stupidity as well – exposing innocent Catholic school children to danger because of his ignorance about flags.

    Do you really think you would get away with that pathetic half assed “contribution” you made. The days of ‘Croppie lie down” are gone forever and people like myself will always point out the hypocrisy of Frazer and you – if you don’t like it, tough – pre 1968 was along time ago wasn’t it.

  • andnowwhat

    Nevin.

    Frazer never even went to the school to check out the facts but asked for photos from the 4 people, he claims, complained to him. He also claimed that he tried to contact the school. Really?

    Maybe he should have Googled them http://www.stpatricksprimaryschool.co.uk/gallery/25340110874.ikml as I did and saw the international dimension. Frazer also said, in the Mc Kee interview, that he was not sorry about the language he used, just about the mistake regarding the flag. I’m sure we don’t need reminding that even primary school kids are not beyond a bit of physical and verbal fury being thrown at them.

    As for the BBC thing; I first became aware of the story via the UTV site and the Twitter trail seems to support that. Furthermore, as linked by Chris, the Belfast Telegraph also published the story. Reporting the story and holding Frazer to account is better than letting the rumour mill take over (see the end of my last paragraph), especially as the school took the flags down.

    As for Chris’ blog; No harm to Mick or Chris but there’s hardly enough readers of Slugger to set NI off in flames but we know that Frazer has a dedicated following who listen to the complete inflammatory syntax that Frazer indulges in eg. the use of the term “Catholic extremists”.

    The man throws unfounded accusations around with gay abandon, often in conflict with the known truth, such as refusing to believe the innocence of the Reaveys (I can link a supporting video if you like).

    As for the Reynolds/Hume/Adams photo; We cannot and must not be dictated to by eejits. Eejits will do what they do, no matter what the rest of society does or think.

  • http://WindowsIDHotmail danielsmoran

    Bluesjazz. Willie is still hankering after the old days in 1964 when the RUC went – after Paisley’s threat – to remove a flag from a SF office. However, while both Paisley and Adams laughed and joked about their shared part in that event, willie is still full of bitterness over flags. No problem with a Polish or Turkish foreign flag, just the one that loked like the tricolour. He’s going to have a ball during the euro 2012 finals as the anthem and the flag will be seen around the world on at least three dates, so UEFA hq can expect a fulminating phone call or two from willie pronto. What must his blood pressure be like?

  • andnowwhat

    Just as well Willie wasn’t at Twickenham, UK at the weekend

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18127003

  • sonofstrongbow

    Willie Frazer is someone who has suffered grievously at the hands of Irish Republican murder gangs. It is a depressing, yet unsurprising, facet of the Irish Republican mindset to take pleasure in goading its victims. I am reminded of the recent McArdle incident. Poking a stick at Willie Frazer is more of the same.

    Highlighting his sometimes foolish and misguided comments simply provides an opportunity to have a malicious giggle at his personal distress. Those who do so are well aware of what drives Frazer and that is of course where they find their glee.

  • PaulT

    Willie seemed to cope with his emotional distress while the European funding was in full flow, only rediscovering it now all hope of turning the tap back on is gone as the money has been recycled into the OO.

    Willie is back on the road, starting from scratch again, lets see if his friends in political circles will defend him now that he’s no longer fronting an organisation with £1,000,000 of taxpayers money in the bank.

    Granted the taxpayers are now funding the OO to the same amount but they like Willie did while the money flowed, seem to be playing the game, I’m predicting a very peaceful 12th, glorious!

  • JR

    I have every sympathy for Willie’s personal loss but no-one has the right to make dangerous, damaging, libalous claims about children.

  • Mac

    “It is a depressing, yet unsurprising, facet of the Irish Republican mindset to take pleasure in goading its victims.”

    Yeah, that’s exactly what this is. It couldn’t possibly be anything else.

  • foyle observer

    Willie Frazer is a pathetic little man.

    He still collecting Saracens?

  • andnowwhat

    Songofstrongbow

    Willie has, in the past, moved beyond the brief of victims advocate to actually supporting loyalist, sectarian murder of innocent Catholics.

    That’s not a man perpetually grieving but is one step further, one who hates. Read the words he posted on Facebook and listen to how he said that he did not regret the language he used regarding primary school children.

    Speaking for myself and my nationalist perspective, the Holy Cross incident is always there in my mind as a measure of the inhumanity ordinary people are willing to inflict on innocent children here.

  • derrydave

    Willie is someone who is very obviously lacking in mental capacity, to put it nicely. A buck-eejit, an embarrassment etc etc I’m sorry, but the fact that he has a very tragic past changes none of the above. Just plain crazy that he gets so much attention – should be ignored – he’d soon go back to playing snap with himself if he didn’t get all this attention.

  • http://WindowsIDHotmail danielsmoran

    derrydave Willie clearly snapped some time ago. He still hasn’t been held to account for posting on web those pictures of kids in a bath.

  • Dixie Elliott

    Wee Willie and the KKK…

    Willie is very friendly with Larry Pratt who admitted sharing a platform a with former Ku Klux Klan leader and an Aryan nation official. He has also been associated with the rightwing extremists of the US militia movement….

    http://www.nuzhound.com/articles/Sunday_Tribune/arts2004/apr25_IMC_Pratt_FAIR__SMcKay.php

  • lamhdearg2

    “Willie Flags Up An Interesting Question”
    will i get away with layin in to someone on slugger, with the same venom that many have on this thread?.

  • vanhelsing

    Seems to me the thread is an excuse for willie bashing which was set up by CD and republicans on this thread have gladly indulged in it. In fact apparently he’s a freak..

    Ok firstly no excuse for the flags thing – completely wrong and showed very poor judgement.

    Willie suffered terribly in the Troubles and I would imagine has some sort of condition which evolved out of that.

    I read his facebook stuff and its dreadful, I mean really dreadful. He seems to live in a fantasy world where everything is a conspiracy and the only people worst than the Shinners are the DUP.

    I feel sorry for him, very sorry but that does not excuse these comments. Someone [with whom I’m sure who I wouldn’t ordinarily agree with] made a comment regarding the band who he leads on facebook. If you read the stuff – you would be indeed concerned.

    Finally the thing that annoys me most about the whole situation is that Willie Frazer could/should be providing support and assistance to the folks in Tryone and Armagh who suffered at the hands of the IRA. Instead ‘FAIR’ has gone, the Peace money has gone and he is left with a facebook page of fantasists who see a commie under very rug.

  • tacapall

    The man is unwell Vanhelsing but he puts himself in the spotlight for ridicule, its understandable from a Unionist point of view to have sympathy for the man, himself and his family have suffered more than most during the conflict, but his actions and rantings are dangerous and sectarian, it is up to Unionism to challenge what he preaches before headers who follow him act on his madness resulting in injury to people,children and property.

  • Neil

    will i get away with layin in to someone on slugger, with the same venom that many have on this thread?

    If in doubt just search ‘Gerry Adams’ or ‘Martin McG’ for numerous examples of personal, vitriolic attacks and unproven assertions presented as fact. References to the Northern Bank spring to mind. Ya know when the cops said ‘it was themmuns’ then the money appeared in a popular-with-peelers golf club, and for which no one is in prison. Good job we don’t have corrupt peelers here, or questions would be asked! Or Gerry’s much referenced membership which, like it or not, has yet to be proven.

    Frazer is a well known Orangeman who has said loyalist paramilitaries “should never have been locked up.”

    Though in light of that statement you can perhaps understand the lack of grace afforded Frazer by some. Some of us dislike it when people suggest that the murderers of our loved ones should have been released without charge. I’m sure Willie would have as much time for any of us that would say IRA men should ‘never have been locked up’.

  • Reader

    Neil: I’m sure Willie would have as much time for any of us that would say IRA men should ‘never have been locked up’.
    Quite – Willie is of a kind with those who would say “Republicans are not criminals”, or who would describe convicted killers as political prisoners.

  • Mark

    The guy is a nut . St Pats PS should look at bringing a malicious slander case against him .

  • Barnshee

    The “outrage” from the usual suspects simply highlights the nationalist dislike of anyone, willie include, who reminds them of their disgusting acts

  • foyle observer

    Barnshee, i think you’re mistaken here. The ‘outrage’ here is from wee Willie. We’re simply ridiculing a pathetic, sectarian nobody and likewise, ridiculing the Unionists / Loyalists who have become so desperate that they’ll support a mentally ill eejit who runs around claiming a Primary School is an ‘IRA Training Ground’ (for flying the Italy flag).

  • foyle observer

    Oh and Barnshee, don’t forget, you’re living on our Island, Ireland. We have a right to fly our flag as much as you Scots planters do to fly the Union flag. Enjoy that ‘Union’ flag whilst it lasts, i think you’ve got 2 years of it.

  • galloglaigh

    Barnshee

    I think your comment merits a red card. You’re putting the crimes of republicans upon the shoulders of the entire nationalist community. That comment rings the same bell as Willie’s comment.

    Willie is obviously sick. Whatever about his suffering, he has inflicted his suffering on school children, who most probably didn’t know what sectarianism was. They do know, thanks to the sectarian rantings of a bigot. Willie should be interned for his views…

  • Barnshee

    GG

    “I think your comment merits a red card. You’re putting the crimes of republicans upon the shoulders of the entire nationalist community. That comment rings the same bell as Willie’s comment.

    I think “Willies” experiences at the hands of the “nationalist community” ie multiple deaths of close family members , the “nationalist community” voting patterns:-
    http://www.ark.ac.uk/elections/ananda.htm
    and the outcomes of those voting patterns
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conor_Murphy

    have produced “Willies” derangement.

    The total failure to make anyone accountable has hardly helped. and made it difficult to fully “shift the crimes of republicans” from those shoulders.

    A look at those responsible for “Willies” take on life might not go amiss –in identifying the cause rather than the symptoms –however uncofortable for some that may be.

  • galloglaigh

    Willie’s experiences were not at the hands of the nationalist community. Many within the nationalist community could say the same about the unionist community’s affiliation with the British security forces and Protestant extremist terrorists. But is that a plausible argument? I’m also surprised that the Glenanne gang has yet to be mentioned on this thread. Perhaps now is the time, as the Dublin and Monaghan bombings were events, among many in Ireland, where the perpetrators have not been held to account.

    What Willie’s comments highlight, is that people with similar views that started the troubles, are still allowed to spew venomous sectarianism across this state. All that people like you can do, is mask this by pointing the finger at other quarters.

    Perhaps you are as sectarian as Willie Frazer?

    P.S. Mods., that’s a question and not a statement!

  • Alias

    I don’t think you can comment on this thread without ‘playing the man’ since you have to objectively question the rational state of mind of someone who would conclude that what he mistook for an Irish flag flying over a school denotes a training camp for “IRA youth” (an implicit allusion to Hitler Youth). It is fair comment to say that such a person is, at best, mentally unstable.

    It is easy to be sympathetic to Willie Frazer given the horrendous crimes that were inflicted on his family, and knowing that it has affected him so deeply that he now defines himself by those crimes (his role as a victim’s spokesman).

    But is he really a proper spokesman for victims for PIRA violence? Unfortunately, the EU thought he was and gave him circa 1 million of funding (before demanding a large chunk of it back) and the Irish government invited him to Dublin to hold a parade, thereby giving a legitimate platform and an incentive in the peace processing industry.

    If he is now just a ‘figure of fun’ then that is always going to be demeaning, by extension, to those who have suffered at the hands of PIRA murderers. It would be better for all concerned if he was ignored as far as reasonably practicable.

  • Barnshee

    “Willie’s experiences were not at the hands of the nationalist community.”

    Well they certainly were not at the hands of the protestant community and a glance at those who represent the “nationalist community” would indicate that they may not be far removed from the events that cause “Willie” angst

    I find it difficult to accept that being clearly distraught by the murder of family members is holding “similar views that started the troubles”

    If wanting EVERYONE involved in criminal acts put away makes me sectarian then I leave you to be the judge of sectarianism

  • JR

    Barnshee,

    Funny I followed those links looked at those election results from the early 70’s to see what you meant about the nationalist voting patterns. Strangely, the nationalist electorate don’t seem to have had much impact in any of those elections. Plenty of votes but very few seats. I wonder why that was?

    Another strange thing is that those who did manage to get elected against all the odds seem to have achieved zero with their mandate. Kind of looks like two wolves and a sheep voting every day on what to have for dinner.

    I also noticed the SF vote nearly trebeled since the IRA ceasfire.

  • Dixie Elliott

    Frazer applied for a licence to hold a firearm for his personal protection and was turned down, a chief inspector said, based on intelligence that he was known to associate with members of loyalist paramilitaries.[…]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Frazer

  • Dixie Elliott

    Talking of blind bigotry….

    I saw this in a recent article by a former RUC man now writing for the Derry Journal, Norman Hamill under the title…

    ‘We have short memories when it suits us.’

    “You people of the Shankill Road, whats wrong with you? Number 425 Shankill Road – do you know who lives there? Pope’s men, that’s who!

    “Forte’s ice-cream shop, Italian Papists on the Shankill Road!
    How about 56 Aden Street? For 97 years a Protestant lived in that house and now there’s a Papisher in it.”

    That was former First Minister and DUP leader, Ian Paisley speaking at a rally with an Orange band on the Shankill Road on the night of 17 June 1959.

    As quoted by Ed Moloney in his acclaimed biography of Paisley.

    Later that night windows were broken in Catholic homes, “Taigs out” was daubed with paint on doors and a shop with a display of crucifixes in it’s window was looted. “

  • Mark

    ” We have short memories when it suits us ” .

    I’m sure most people remember the Dunblane massacre . Comments like the one Frazier made could have had tragic consequences for St Patricks PS . People take Willie Frazier seriously in some quarters . Is it that far fetched to suggest that someone ( a relative of a victim for instance ) could flip after hearing about ” an IRA training school ” and go looking for vengence . Look at Norway a few months ago .

    Ddin’t an RUC officer walk into a SF office during the troubles and start blasting at anything that moved before turning the gun on himself .

    Frazier has had a hard life but he’s a dangerous man with a dangerous mouth …

  • galloglaigh

    Willie Frazer abandons his sinking ship. Has he clambered upon another?

  • Drumlins Rock

    gallo, are you talking about his fight with cancer referred to in the article?

  • galloglaigh

    If I were referring to his cancer, I’d have said the word cancer. I’m referring to his apparent anomalies relating to funding, and him being stopped by masked and unidentified ‘anti-terror’ police. The likes of which Gary Donnelly or Colin Duffy are used to seeing.

    Ps DR, there’s a nice wee club you should visit the next time you’re in Derry. It’ along the Quay and it’s called Karma.

  • Dont Drink Bleach

    I wonder would Mick tolerate these kind of comments if they were being made about Pat Finucane’s wife or the relatives of the Derry Young Hooligans killed in 1972?

    Hierarchy of victims anyone??

  • galloglaigh

    That from a proven hypocrite. You’re as bad as wee Willie when it comes to looking at the World with one eye open. Neither of you, or your ‘followers’ can see the wood for the trees!

  • Covenanter

    “If I were referring to his cancer, I’d have said the word cancer. I’m referring to his apparent anomalies relating to funding, and him being stopped by masked and unidentified ‘anti-terror’ police. The likes of which Gary Donnelly or Colin Duffy are used to seeing.

    Ps DR, there’s a nice wee club you should visit the next time you’re in Derry. It’ along the Quay and it’s called Karma.”

    A disgusting comment. Are the Mods asleep?

  • http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

    With 45,000 being stopped each year, everyone is going to be unlucky once in a while.

  • galloglaigh

    Are the Mods asleep

    Obviously since you’re a twice banned user…

  • Submariner

    Galloglaigh lol.

  • galloglaigh

    Please point out the mud-slinging? I’m not getting a card this time. You’re on your own.

    As Bush once said:

    There’s an old saying in Tennessee – I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee – that says, fool me once, shame on – shame on you. Fool me – you can’t get fooled again.

    cluiche ar líne saor in aisce Gúna an buachaill

  • babyface finlayson

    galloglaigh
    Your comment about karma is clearly intended to suggest that Willie Frazer got what he deserved.
    Very unpleasant.

  • galloglaigh

    Babyface

    It’s a recommendation for a good venue in Derry. But like the Beach Boy’s song Sloop John B, it can be interpreted in other ways not intended…

  • babyface finlayson

    galloglaigh

    Like I said. Very unpleasant.
    Not sure if it falls within the definition of trolling but it should.

  • andnowwhat

    Dont Drink Bleach (profile) 16 November 2012 at 5:27 pm
    I wonder would Mick tolerate these kind of comments if they were being made about Pat Finucane’s wife or the relatives of the Derry Young Hooligans killed in 1972?

    Hierarchy of victims anyone??

    What in the name of good God!!!!!

    Not even a yellow for the latter of that post?

  • Dont Drink Bleach

    Calm down Paul.

    Can’t you accept the findings of the Saville Report?

  • andnowwhat

    No doubt this threatening behaviour towards me will go unchecked

  • SK

    “It’s a recommendation for a good venue in Derry. But like the Beach Boy’s song Sloop John B, it can be interpreted in other ways not intended…”

    Very good.

  • andnowwhat

    How a man that publicly said that no loyalists should ever have been in gaol got finance at all is a mystery

  • Davy McFaul

    According to the Newsletter article Willie

    “(Has) no time for terrorists – republican or loyalist”

    That’s quite a u turn for a man who previously had “a lot of time for Billy Wright”.

    http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74511

    Perhaps he didn’t consider Billy Wright a terrorist?

  • andnowwhat

    In fairness Davy, nor did Rev. Wille Mc Crea. http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49082000/jpg/_49082629_wrightmcrea.jpg Funny that video of Wille and Billy keeps getting pulled

  • galloglaigh

    Don’t forget Wright was a ‘counter’ terrorist. That makes it all OK…

  • babyface finlayson

    SK
    “It’s a recommendation for a good venue in Derry. But like the Beach Boy’s song Sloop John B, it can be interpreted in other ways not intended…”

    Very good.”
    I’m trying to avoiding having a go at the man here, but it is not ‘very good’ to coyly suggest that someone having cancer is karma.
    Sloop John B is totally irrelevant.
    A joke was it? O the hilarity.

  • Covenanter

    “I’m trying to avoiding having a go at the man here, but it is not ‘very good’ to coyly suggest that someone having cancer is karma.”

    It is hard to think of a more extreme form of man playing than suggesting that someone having cancer is Karma. People have been banned for a hell of a lot less.

  • UserAinm

    ‘It is hard to think of a more extreme form of man playing than suggesting that someone having cancer is Karma. People have been banned for a hell of a lot less.’

    ‘I’m sure the mods would quickly re-appear if I was to repeat a few of the well known tales about Pat Finucane’s wife and her brother-in-law on this forum.
    It seems innocent protestant victims of the IRA are fair game for mud-slinging and sectarian ridicule yet the wife of an IRA man must be put on a pedestal and never criticised.’

  • SK

    ” People have been banned for a hell of a lot less.”

    That is indeed the case, Blair/Lodger/Limerick/Covenanter.

    All I saw was a man recommending a restaurant.

  • Covenanter

    SK,

    No doubt Sally Bercow will be in touch with you for aid in her defence. I doubt though that it will be of any use to her.

    The poster above has engaged in man playing of the most disgusting nature and thus far he has managed to escape censure. Does this rule only apply to unionist posters?

  • Submariner

    Blair covenanter .lodger you have a brass neck having been banned twice by mick and still u pollute this site with your secyarian bile. Go back to dcr were you belong.

  • Covenanter

    Submariner,

    You appear to be the most prolific man player on this site. Indeed you contribute little else.

  • Dont Drink Bleach

    andnowwhat:
    No doubt this threatening behaviour towards me will go unchecked

    If I really wanted to intimidate you I’d threaten to send your business website address (with your home address and mobile number in the contact details) to the McCartney sisters along with some of the potentially libellous comments you’ve made about them on politics.ie:

    http://www.politics.ie/forum/northern-ireland/167032-ballyclare-arrests-3.html#post4181546

    They’d soon put an end to your Walter Mitty stories…

  • galloglaigh

    It’s ironic that people who have been banned, not once nor twice, but more than that, seem to find offence in my comments. If you like some nice nibbles, and a wee bit of Derry craic, go to Karma. If you don’t, go to South Armagh and the craic there’s great. The buzz word of the moment is Willie Frazer, and his apparent fall from (grace is too good a word), his donkey.

    A waste of words, and sooner comes the time when an obituary appears on Slugger…

    My comment then will be blank. Blank, void, and well intended.

    Good night…

  • galloglaigh

    DDB

    If you had a pair of balls, you’d do exactly what it says or your tin.

    http://sluggerotoole.com/2012/05/20/willie-flags-up-an-interesting-question/comment-page-2/#comment-1253848

    Otherwise…

  • Davy McFaul

    What relevance does Frazer having cancer have with the article anyway?

    “The controversial victims’ campaigner, who is suffering from cancer, told police he had just that morning received treatment in Craigavon Area Hospital. “It made no difference,” he added”

    Why should that have made any difference?

  • Covenanter

    “What relevance does Frazer having cancer have with the article anyway?”

    It seems to be bringing a great deal of pleasure to a certain sub section of society here.

  • Covenanter

    “A waste of words, and sooner comes the time when an obituary appears on Slugger…”

    Disgusting comment.

  • Davy McFaul

    “It seems to be bringing a great deal of pleasure to a certain sub section of society here”

    That doesn’t really answer the question of what relevance it has to the article though does it?