25% have now paid their Household Charge…

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That’s 1/4 of the population of the Republic stumping up for the 75% percent that haven’t. And more than a 5% jump in two days. Still not great, but it sounds a lot better than the one in five it was stuck at on Friday. RTE reports:

More than 395,000 payments have been processed, with a further 38,000 received by post but not yet inputted into the system. The numbers processed have increased by almost 32,000 since yesterday afternoon. The LGMA said 82% of those processed have been paid online.

And everyone but Phil Hogan is apologising for the government’s cock up (in not actually letting people know about the charge until almost the last minute). Today it was Lucinda Creighton’s turn:

Minister of State for Europe Lucinda Creighton has said it is quite clear that mistakes have been made in the handling of the Household Charge but the Government is determined to move ahead with it. Ms Creighton said there was a run of unfortunate events including the fact the printing company retained to distribute leaflets went out of business leaving people without information.

Gerry Adams asked (rhetorically, presumably) whether the government would pursue non payers as well as they haven’t pursued the bankers… You can get the official details on how to pay the Household Charge here

  • Alias

    The citizens should stop paying all taxes while taxes are being diverted to bail-out eurosystem banks.

    Article 6 of the Constitution declares that the government only acts with legitimacy when it acts to promote the “common good” of the Irish nation:

    “All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good.”

  • Mick Fealty

    Yeah, that’ll work…

  • Alias

    It’ll work, and work instantly. But are the citizens liley to engage in widespread civil disobedience in opposition to the government’s imperative to divert their taxes to bail-out overleveraged French and German banks?

    That depends on what percentage of that 75% who haven’t paid don’t intend to pay. 75% isn’t likely to be down to the cock-up theory that the government is spouting to explain non-payment, is it?

  • Greenflag

    Irish resistance has reached ‘international ‘ears and even brought back to mind Land League days, Captain Boycott , and has even dragged Enda Kenny into quisling like subservience to Mr Obama’s paymasters (Goldman Sachs) not to mention those French and German ‘banksters ‘ who have to be bailed out by Irish taxpayers as if bailing out our own banksters was’nt enough . .

    Is Irish stoicism finally giving way to a justified public taxpayers revolt ? At some point the ‘dam ‘ is going to burst and neither Kenny nor Noonan nor Martin or Gilmore will be able to prevent it !

    http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/episode-265-max-keiser/

  • Alias

    It’s all about momentum, GF. No one wants to go it alone on non-payment but if it appears that most have gone together then most will stay together. That is why the state and its toadies are desperately spinning the line that the 75% non-payment it was all just a misfortunate cock-up and that actually most will pay the tax. This is designed to undermine the momentum

    We even have Ms Nuala O’Faolain (post expedient beatification) used on Slugger to tell us “shure it’s just terrible not to pay taxes and it’s just not cricket atall atall.” As if, somehow, we are being poor citizens if we refuse to surrender our taxes to the state to be used for a purpose of which we do not approve and have not being asked to approve.

    Of course the government try to defraud the public by pretending this tax is only for local purposes but it is only needed because the taxes we have already paid have been diverted to bail-out foreign bondholders and so these new taxes are required to replace those exported taxes and to maintain the program of bailing-out German bankers.

    At a guess, I’d say at least 50% of citizens will refuse to pay this tax. That is the start of the rebirth of democracy and the sovereign state.

  • Mick Fealty

    That would hold more water if the figure itself wasn’t quite so token…

  • Mick Fealty

    From your link GF:

    “This *could* be the first country to absolutely smash the bankers in the face…” Stranger things have happened… but I don’t see this hurting the bankers as the gentleman supposes, somehow…

  • Greenflag

    Mick ,

    Yes Max gets carried away in his exuberance. Red Ken suggested hanging one a week till the others improve . When the elected politicians are seen as powerless in the face of ‘bankster ‘ rule then you are going to get anti bankster venting of this kind ..

    That can be seen and heard as a safety release valve as it were but once you start getting a large number of people telling their government that NO we simply won’t pay up (even if the amount is minimal for most) then you have the beginning of the end for that government . They can’t fine or imprison 1 million property owners . Political suicide it’s called .

    Today I read Bernanke once again extending lower interest rates well into 2013 and beyond because of ‘structural ‘ problems in the USA economy . The signs of recovery are weak and even the Netherlands is now moving from the core Euro zone group into recession and German manufacturing is slowing down .

    A long hot summer ahead .Will Mr Cameron survive and will Messrs Kenny or Noonan deliver ‘relief’ on that 4 billion due to the unsecured bondholders ?

  • Pete Baker

    “Red Ken suggested hanging one a week till the others improve . When the elected politicians are seen as powerless in the face of ‘bankster ‘ rule then you are going to get anti bankster venting of this kind ..”

    Grow up, Greenie…

  • Alias

    “That would hold more water if the figure itself wasn’t quite so token…”

    The introductory figure is always token. The reason for that gimmick is that people tend not to bother objecting to small taxes. As they seem to be bothering in this case they’re either wise to to the trick or have other objections.

    I can only state that my objection is that I see no duty at all as a citizen to contribute part of my income to promote “the common good” of eurosystem bondholders, and nor do I see where Article 6 extends it to same.

  • galloglaigh

    “They think that they have pacified Ireland. They think that they have purchased half of us and intimidated the other half. They think that they have foreseen everything, think that they have provided against everything; but the fools, the fools, the fools… Ireland unfree shall never be at peace”

  • Greenflag

    I’ ve done all the growing up I’m ever going to do . I could do with losing another 10 pounds . . I await the ‘growing up’ of our elected politicians and live and hope that someday they will summon up the cojones to execute the necessary reform that’s needed to prevent the world economy from tipping into a financial and political abyss the consequences of which anybody with some kop of human nature would not wish to see much less experience.

    I await also the ‘maturing ‘ of the bankster class and their personal political muppets but realise that some are simply irreformable and will have to be put down by legislation or by the market .

    Meanwhile Red Ken will be next Mayor of London and the real muppets have taken umbrage at their market brand name being taken in vain by the eh ‘masters of disaster a.k.a the rulers of the financial services universe .

    http://www.brandchannel.com/home/post/2012/03/27/Muppets-vs-Goldman-Sachs-032712.aspx.

    Our political muppets across the world meanwhile continue to faff about in the dark after 5 years of fruitless navel gazing at the world monetary system and it’s now overdue restructuring . They have long forgotten how ordinary people live their lives nor do they much care about anything other than their re-election prospects be that in Washington DC, Westminster or Dun Laoghaire /Rathdown . I was brought up to believe that don’t care is eventually made to care and the circumstances under which that ‘making ‘ will occur could be very unpleasant for millions of people worldwide .

  • Greenflag

    ‘I can only state that my objection is that I see no duty at all as a citizen to contribute part of my income to promote “the common good” of eurosystem bondholders,’

    Well said Alias – I can agree with you at least on this one :)

  • andnowwhat

    Right, I’m terrible at this stuff but did I not here recently that Ronald Reagan jailed a bunch of bankers for corrupt practices back in his presidency?

  • wee buns

    It was FG who in their stupidity started this moralist ‘logic’ by the insistence that we are morally obliged to pay OUR debts.

    Nonpayment of household charge is unmistakably and directly linked to the opposite belief (and stance, as it now transpires) that the total debts accrued are not morally OURS.

    The figure of E100 is only ‘token’ insofar that it paves the way for both septic tank and water charges, the former being the seriously unaffordable tax.

  • Greenflag

    ‘did I not hear recently that Ronald Reagan jailed a bunch of bankers for corrupt practices back in his presidency?’

    Indeed but that was before the full effect of ‘banking deregulation ‘ promoted by Donald Regan (Reagan’s sidekick) made the previously ‘illegal ‘ legal and finally when Bill Clinton repealed the Glass Steigal Act in 1998 -the Pandora’s Box of financial chaos was loosed on the world . It’s very obvious that the powers that be or are supposed to be in theory anyway are having more than a modicum of difficulty in returning what was set loose back into the box !

  • Mick Fealty

    WBs,

    The problem you get if you are able to follow that logic through is that Ireland owes nothing to no one, no way, any how. That is the political price to sinking your fiscal sovereignty in the Euro.

    The real problem is two fold, the undue pressure from the Troika to re-impose quickly, (although, given past Irish government’s failure to undertake progressive fiscal and constitutional reforms, it is also understandable.

    And the narrowness of the tax base. That will outlast this crisis and the others that are to follow. It’s also a good measure by which we might judge the honesty and seriousness of any putative pretenders to the Republican crown…

  • PaulT

    Mick are you referring to “narrowness of the tax base” as a result of the physical erosion of the tax base (ie people in jobs) or as a graph ie tax returns relevant to GDP.

    If its the latter than a comparison with GDP gives a false return as GDP is distorted in Ireland, using the more accurate GNP Ireland is comfortably average.

  • Alias

    “The problem you get if you are able to follow that logic through is that Ireland owes nothing to no one, no way, any how. That is the political price to sinking your fiscal sovereignty in the Euro.

    The real problem is two fold, the undue pressure from the Troika to re-impose quickly, (although, given past Irish government’s failure to undertake progressive fiscal and constitutional reforms, it is also understandable.”

    It isn’t a valid argument to simply say ‘The Constitution doesn’t support my position. Therefore the Constitution is outdated/non-progressive/illegitimate/should be ignored, and my position should be deemed to be the legitimate position.’

    The Constitutional position as stated in Article 6 is the only legitimate position:

    “All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good.”

    The government is only authorised by the people to exercise the powers given to it by the people to promote “the common good” of the people.

    It is not authorised by Article 6 to promote “the common good” of German or French bankers or to do this at the direct expense of the common good of the people by the expedient of transferring ownership of the former’s debts to the latter.

    To get around this constitutional block the government claims that it is promoting “the common good” of the people by forcing them to assume responsibility for debts belonging to overleveraged eurosystem banks.

    The convoluted logic is that if the eurosystem fails then the common good people of the people will not have been promoted by the government, and it will have failed to exercise its constitutional duty to promote it.

    In reality, the government know that ‘logic’ is utterly bogus but must proffer it regardless in order to pretend that they are not blatantly violating Article 6 and thereby acting without legitimacy.

    “Part of the existing agreement with our external partners is not to allow any Irish bank, including Anglo Irish Bank, default on its debts to bondholders for fear of paralysing wider European financial markets. I share the Irish public’s dismay at the cost and unfairness of this policy and the delay it caused to the State’s recovery.” – Enda Kenny

    They are not acting to promote the common good of the people: they are acting to implement the EU’s policy on the containment of systemic risk, and acting without regard to Article 6.

    It’s true that the people qualified Article 6 when they ratified the various treaties, all of which were annexed to the Constitution with a clause that gives the treaties precedence over the other articles of the Constitution whereby might conflict, but it isn’t true that sovereignty over the “national policy” of converting private eurosystem debts into sovereign debts was derogated by the people in any of those ratified treaties.

    Therefore, at all times the government had a Constitutional duty to apply Article 6. It has blatantly failed to do so and acts now without legitimacy in regard to its implementation of this illegitimate policy.

    The government’s convoluted logic that the common good of foreign banks is the same entity as the common good of the Irish people would not withstand the scrutiny of the Supreme Court.

  • Scáth Shéamais

    9 TDs Demand Accurate Reporting of Registration Figure

    The 9 TDs supporting the Boycott of the Household Tax today demand that the Agency responsible for collecting the Household Tax and Media report strictly accurate figures relating to the total numbers of households…

  • Alias

    “In recent days there is widespread manipulation of figures to make the Government position look a little less dreadful.

    The baseline figure for registration is 1.8 million NOT the 1.6 million which is being used in the last few days. Therefore as of last night the numbers recorded (482,000) as having registered is 27 % of the 1.8 million. This leaves more than 1.3 million who have not registered or 73%.”

    Gosh, can it be that the government is lying to the people in an attempt to undermine their solidarity on this issue? Say it ain’t so…

  • Mick Fealty

    They have stopped reporting fresh figures today. de facto They seem to be be counting on a soft finish.

  • PaulT

    pulled the trigger too early there Mick, 30 mins later!

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0330/one-in-three-register-for-household-charge.html

    “The latest figures on payments of the Household Charge, ahead of tomorrow’s deadline, show that as of 6pm yesterday 550,000 people had paid or registered.

    It amounts to about one third of the 1.6 million household liable for the €100.”

  • Mick Fealty

    Thanks Paul! Thats a hell of a jump! And They ære definitely sortering the deadline.

  • PaulT

    On P.ie it was been discussed as a mexican standoff, with many predicting the public will crumble at the last minute and register.

    However after the Govt’s dancing on a pinhead antics over the PN yesterday, I wonder if it will give prople a bit of backbone to resist.

    Also, graph on there a few days ago agrees with me that OAPs are not the ones suffering, it’s younger people and those with families.

    I’m reminded of that bishops quote from the famine about being pround that he lived in a country where a man would starve his children to pay his rent.

  • Mick Fealty

    Yeah, I think there is some considerable worth in that idea… Just been talking with the head of a small UK charity who said that the effects of the Chancellor’s handling of the granny tax are likely to be pro- rather than re-gressive since 2/3 of the countries wealth is clagged up at the older demographic end…